Napoleon
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2003
- Messages
- 1,073
Sounds good, just wanted to confirm that others will still happy with the amp. I'll get a replacement
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Napoleon
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2003
- Messages
- 1,073
Swapped the speaker wires and then both channels died; however, I noticed the optical output cable from the TV was loose. I plugged it in all the way and the amp is working so far. Look like the answer could be much more simple than I thought!
Note: the optical cable is SUPER loose when plugged into the TV's output port, anyone else run into this issue?
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 55,634
Yeah, those things suck in general.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Last year a friend had to try lots of optical cables to get a good fit on his AV system.
He didnt believe there would be one that could fit until I loaned him one of mine.
It still took a lot of effort to get one that was satisfactory, I think he got it from a Hifi shop in the end.
The one I loaned him came from my Auzentech Prelude or an old Creative card, he couldnt buy that.
There are some badly made optical cables.
Its even more annoying when you have a good one and your cat thinks its a toy.
One of mine leaks light now, doh!
He didnt believe there would be one that could fit until I loaned him one of mine.
It still took a lot of effort to get one that was satisfactory, I think he got it from a Hifi shop in the end.
The one I loaned him came from my Auzentech Prelude or an old Creative card, he couldnt buy that.
There are some badly made optical cables.
Its even more annoying when you have a good one and your cat thinks its a toy.
One of mine leaks light now, doh!
![Zarathustra[H]](https://cdn.hardforum.com/data/avatars/m/9/9298.jpg?1707758471){kind=avatar}
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,875
Hmm. I use optical to connect my old SB Titanium in my desktop to my Schiit Modi Multibit DAC, and it has never come loose on me.
It must depend on the design of the cable or the devices. Some might have a good fit, others not depending on tolerance stackup.
Napoleon
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2003
- Messages
- 1,073
While it may have improved for a bit, the amp is having issues. First, I leave the amp on all the time and as you expect it heats up. Last night I turned on pandora to listen to music and the left channel wasn't working again; I checked input cables and everything was plugged in and working. Disgusted, I turned it off and went to bed.
This morning I turn it on (fully cooled down) and now both channels work, but there is crackling and distortion/skipping randomly as the music plays. This doesn't seem like normal behavior.
Zarathustra[H] - How do you use your amps? Are they on all the time?
I'm happy to exchange for another of the same model if it is expected to work the way I use it; but I wonder if I should get a different amp? Let me know what you think and I'll reach out to parts-express.
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,875
Sounds like you have an intermittent solder joint in there somewhere, such that thermal expansion and contraction is causing an issue.
I'd go for the warranty.
I never leave any of my electronics on all the time. Everything I own goes off when not in active use. I'm not sure why one would want to leave something on all the time. It sounds terribly wasteful.
That being said, I have had extended listening sessions (several hours) at high volumes which have resulted in the amps getting rather hot, and have never had any channels cut out or distortion on me.
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,875
One more thing.
If you listen at rather low volumes potentiometers (used for volume control) tend to be rather inaccurate, which can result in unequal channel volume.
This is going to be the same for all low cost amps though.
This is why higher end models tend to use digital encoders for their volume knobs instead, but now we are talking about expensive hardware.
From your description it sounds like volume is pretty high (generating heat) and the channel is cutting out completely. So I don't think this is your problem.
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,875
Because people who buy stereo separates often want to be able to mix and match to their preference and upgrade their DAC and AMP separately.
If they are both in the same box, you can't do that.
There are also some audio quality issues. The digital side tends to be full of gigahertz noise, and ideally you want that as isolated as possible from the sensitive analogue stage.
At least if you are a golden eared Audiophile.
Napoleon
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2003
- Messages
- 1,073
I use it to power the 2 bookshelf speakers hooked up to my TV and like to leave it on the same volume; although I do have to adjust it frequently since the output volume varies based on the app used (HBO NOW, Pandora, YouTube, Netflix, ITunes). I turn off basically everything else in my house, just not the amp or subwoofer haha
I actually do listen at fairly low volumes, the potentiometer can really 'turn up'. I'd say I am probably at less than 50% max output, more likely 20-25% depending. Sure it's fun to crank it, but I don't want to have to yell to chat with my wife. I just notice the enclosure heats up as it sits there.
Parts Express gave me a return number, is there another amp/receiver I should look for? Obviously this one is passively cooled, I don't want to go overboard (again) on efforts to cool an amp; perhaps I should get one with active cooling? I could also turn it off more often; however, it's concerning that it is having issues so soon with constant power (but not necessarily it putting out sounds, although I imagine perhaps it is just amplifying the noise all day long while I'm at work...).
Sure, they sound good when they work, but it's really highlighting the amazing value of the Klipsche 2.1 system I was using before...
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,875
One alternative I can think of would be to get a low end refurbished Home Theater receiver from accessories4less.com. It would be a little bit more money, but not outrageously so.
This is the cheapest one right now at $149:
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...1-ch-x-80-watts-bluetooth-a/v-receiver/1.html
It;'s a 5.1 system, but that doesn't mean you can't set it up as 2.0 or 2.1. It also gives you the flexibility to add more channels later should you ever want to.
You also get a remote control so you don't have to get up and tweak the volume knob all the time
This is probably what I would do. You just connect your sources via HDMI and then connect a hdmi cable to your TV. The Receiver does all the source switching, breaks out the audio, and sends along the video signal to the screen.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
I use a Bitfenix 23cm PC fan sat between my amp and AV processor. If you do this make sure the AV processor has air holes on the underside. I've tilted mine slightly because it doesnt.
My Dad has my old Onkyo amp with a 25cm PC fan sat on top.
Both have an old PSU (not PC) rigged to power them at 5V or 7V.
Both fans are drawing air upward out of the power amps which minimises dust ingestion to the amps and fans.
ps
The fans can either be:
left on permanently,
powered on with a mains switch for the whole system,
or take the mains power from the rear of the amp which (if present) is only live when the amp is powered on.
Last edited:
Napoleon
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2003
- Messages
- 1,073
Hmm, I'd prefer to not ghetto rig up some cooling option for once, especially in my living room. They are only offering a replacement so I'll swap out a new unit and turn it off between uses (when I remember). They have a 5 year warranty so perhaps I'll get good at exchanging.
Zarathustra[H] I like that pioneer amp, I'll consider something like that in the futuer
Zarathustra[H] I like that pioneer amp, I'll consider something like that in the futuer
Hmm, I'd prefer to not ghetto rig up some cooling option for once, especially in my living room. They are only offering a replacement so I'll swap out a new unit and turn it off between uses (when I remember). They have a 5 year warranty so perhaps I'll get good at exchanging.
Zarathustra[H] I like that pioneer amp, I'll consider something like that in the futuer
I get it. Check https://www.acinfinity.com/
There's ghetto and there's pro.
I've got one of their fan systems and cannot hear it. It's done a great job in a small cabinet of dumping the excess heat. Can't see 'em, can't hear 'em. Of course, the 5 year warranty is good, too. Frequently, companies will "reserve the right" to replace/repair your unit with a refurb. You're out the time for shipping and repair, and after 5 years from date of purchase, buh bye warranty.
Napoleon
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2003
- Messages
- 1,073
Just FYI the Pioneer Model Speakers: SP-BS22-LR
Promo Code: 3176652 to get for $59.99 (from $129.99/$99.99) at Frys.com today only
Promo Code: 3176652 to get for $59.99 (from $129.99/$99.99) at Frys.com today only
D
Deleted member 93354
Guest
Hmm, I'd prefer to not ghetto rig up some cooling option for once, especially in my living room. They are only offering a replacement so I'll swap out a new unit and turn it off between uses (when I remember). They have a 5 year warranty so perhaps I'll get good at exchanging.
Zarathustra[H] I like that pioneer amp, I'll consider something like that in the futuer
http://www.coolcomponents.com/rackcooling
My RX-Z11 runs hot as heck. It comes with two fans in the base. But they are noisy. So I pop one of these puppies on top to keep it cool. and quiet. Make sure you get one with adjustable output
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,875
The FiiO E10K appears to have a Line out on the back. I bet you could use a 3.5mm stereo to RCA adapter and it ought to work.
Honestly, I usually recommend people try without a DAC first and then add one later only if they find they have noise issues. (Can hear mouse movements, pump RPM, etc. out of the speakers.)
Someone in a thread on SD recommended this AMP https://www.amazon.com/Lepai-LP-202...UTF8&qid=1520868290&sr=8-1&keywords=LP-2020TI
Anyone have experience with it? It's significantly cheaper than the DTA-120. But if it's going to get hot frequently then nevermind.
Anyone have experience with it? It's significantly cheaper than the DTA-120. But if it's going to get hot frequently then nevermind.
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Arcygenical
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2005
- Messages
- 25,066
I don'tn understand why most of our enterprising members don't build their own amplifiers these days. Amazon has a large number of mono, 2 and 4 channel DC amplifier boards for under 40$. Pick a corresponding PSU (laptop brick or 24v 5a ebay PSU similar to a meanwell), solder in a 24v 10kmf capacitor and terminate the screw-down terminals with a DC jack and a few banana jacks. Banana jacks can be a PITA to solder though without a propane torch.
Hell, I even managed to find a 200w monoblock 24v amplifier, 24v lowpass circuit, 5a 24v PSU, tone control board with LCD and an IR remote, metal case for under 100$ shipped prime. It was literally plug (well, solder) and play. RCA in to tone control, tone control to lowpass, lowpass to amplifier, amplifier to a single channel out. All power leads connected in parallel to the second 24v output channel of the 23$ PSU. I use it to power the built in 8ohm 8" subwoofers in my TV tower speakers, in parallel, for 4ohms.
For very musical speakers, an old 400w ATX PSU and a class AB car amplifier work very well. I'm powering my main 2.2 loudspeakers with a class D 3 channel car amplifier and refurb Corsair TX750... And My bedroom music 2.2 speakers with a class AB 4 channel amplifier and a Thermaltake 750w ATX. Both PSU's are from old builds.
It's a class T amplifier, so it's around 90% efficient at 6ohms. It won't get hot as it can output a maximum of 12w into each channel with the 5a power brick upgrade. At this volume level, right at it's clipping point, it draws around 35w, meaning heat losses are no more than 5w. It will get warm.
The DTA is a much better amplifier. It operates at 24v, so the dynamic range of your speakers will improve. The difference between 12w and 50w at 8ohms is approximately 6db, or 50% louder.
My favorite off the shelf amplifiers include the TPA3116 D2 chip. I find these give the best quality sound with no "pop" in or out, provided the PSU is sufficient.
Hell, I even managed to find a 200w monoblock 24v amplifier, 24v lowpass circuit, 5a 24v PSU, tone control board with LCD and an IR remote, metal case for under 100$ shipped prime. It was literally plug (well, solder) and play. RCA in to tone control, tone control to lowpass, lowpass to amplifier, amplifier to a single channel out. All power leads connected in parallel to the second 24v output channel of the 23$ PSU. I use it to power the built in 8ohm 8" subwoofers in my TV tower speakers, in parallel, for 4ohms.
For very musical speakers, an old 400w ATX PSU and a class AB car amplifier work very well. I'm powering my main 2.2 loudspeakers with a class D 3 channel car amplifier and refurb Corsair TX750... And My bedroom music 2.2 speakers with a class AB 4 channel amplifier and a Thermaltake 750w ATX. Both PSU's are from old builds.
It's a class T amplifier, so it's around 90% efficient at 6ohms. It won't get hot as it can output a maximum of 12w into each channel with the 5a power brick upgrade. At this volume level, right at it's clipping point, it draws around 35w, meaning heat losses are no more than 5w. It will get warm.
The DTA is a much better amplifier. It operates at 24v, so the dynamic range of your speakers will improve. The difference between 12w and 50w at 8ohms is approximately 6db, or 50% louder.
My favorite off the shelf amplifiers include the TPA3116 D2 chip. I find these give the best quality sound with no "pop" in or out, provided the PSU is sufficient.
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
So go with the DTA-120? lol if it won't drive the speakers properly and limiting them. Then I'll just spend the money and get the DTA-120.
Arcygenical
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2005
- Messages
- 25,066
It is a much better amplifier. The 30w Class T's like the lepai are fine for small bookshelf speakers IMHO but they limit any speaker with less than a 93dba sensitivity level (100dba is a good room filling loudness) Most speakers don't have this sensitivity. If they do, they're often much more expensive than your 30$ amplifier.
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,875
While I agree, a counter-argument here could be that not everyone wants/needs to listen to their music at reference levels. Unless you like it loud, a smaller amp could work.
I have a set of 8ohm Micca MB42x speakers in my kitchen, with a rated sensitivity of 85db. I rarely turn the knob past 50 percent on my DTA120 when driving these.
Then again, one could also make the argument that this is exactly what you want. It is much better to have a highly capable amp operating lower in its power range where distortion is lower, than a less capable amp, turned all the way up and borderline clipping.
I really like the DTA-120. It's a nice little amp. I have three of them, one is in my kitchen, another is hooked up on my fiance's desk, and a third I use for outdoor speakers on my porch for when I have a little BBQ. It isn't exactly an audiophiles dream though. If you have a little bit more room in your budget, I'd look at an Emotiva A-100, or if you have more time, troll craigslist for a vintage NAD PowerEnvelope (PE) receiver.
Side note about the DTA-120, while its name suggests it is 2x60w, it is actually rated at 2x40w into an 8ohm load, it's only 2x60w into a 4ohm load.
The Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones speakers we recommended for Kyle's setup are a nominal 6ohm speaker, so the power output is going to be somewhere between those two.
Last edited:
pandather
n00b
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2017
- Messages
- 8
Hey, just saw this, if you want to take your Pioneer SP-BS22LR's to the next level, I can attest to the results of this mod: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-diy-modifications.610820/ Great stuff if you have 3 or 4 hours and ~$80 to spend on it.
SixFootDuo
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2004
- Messages
- 5,825
Thanks for sharing.
I was able to find a 2nd 1 owner pair of Klipsch Promedia 5.1's is perfect shape and working for $100 last week .. steal of a life time.
Totally in love with these things. Have 3 pair now so I think I will stop collecting them. HAH.
Yeah that Dayton 12" is off sale or I would have bought it right now .......
I was able to find a 2nd 1 owner pair of Klipsch Promedia 5.1's is perfect shape and working for $100 last week .. steal of a life time.
Totally in love with these things. Have 3 pair now so I think I will stop collecting them. HAH.
Yeah that Dayton 12" is off sale or I would have bought it right now .......
foe hammer
n00b
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 4
I know its most likely been said already, but I am wanting to build a actual non pc speaker (IE Home theater) 7.1 setup for gaming on my pc. What kind of receiver and or sound card do I need to achieve this?
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
I found video lag introduced by a receiver or AV processor impacted my gaming way too much.
To combat this I feed the display directly from the PC and a simultaneous feed goes to my AV system.
YeuEmMaiMai
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2004
- Messages
- 34,173
still rocking the same Yamaha setup that I posted earlier.. only change was to a R-XV 679 receiver that can handle 4K pass through/up conversion. The big empty spot is where my 65" 4K TV is going
Got the following stack of stuff to fix..
Vostro 1435 needs new hinge on right side (when using machine)
Yamaha HTR-5635 needs some capacitors replaced as there is DC output on all of the amp channels
Yamaha R-XV 667 needs HDMI board re worked so it can output HDMI again lol...
Got the following stack of stuff to fix..
Vostro 1435 needs new hinge on right side (when using machine)
Yamaha HTR-5635 needs some capacitors replaced as there is DC output on all of the amp channels
Yamaha R-XV 667 needs HDMI board re worked so it can output HDMI again lol...
Last edited:
How big is your room and why do you think 7.1 is necessary ?
Darunion
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 5,351
I myself have found that 2.0 setup sounds amazing. Recently picked up sound blaster AE5 card feeding my little smsl sa-50 amp with a pair of partial rebuilt bookshelf speakers and the sound was just far more enjoyable setting it to the highest sample rate than it is when I feed it into my denon x1300 into mulitchannel. Not saying it is bad, just there is some level of lost resolution that I hear. I have my sound card set on direct mode with no audio processing. For surround, it is a simple switch to virtual surround and that gives me the good enough.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
I dont mean to interfere when help wasnt asked for but a friendly suggestion:
You should get better deep bass response and a wider soundstage/better imaging by removing the shelving unit next to the left speaker and putting the left speaker closer to the left wall (but not right next to the wall. Try different positions for best result).
Pulling the speakers forward from the rear wall should help deep bass response as well.
The golden ratio for most speakers is an equilateral triangle between the speakers and the listening position or close to that.
Try angling the speakers toward you bit by bit to see if that improves the imaging.
My ears are approx 3m away from the speaker drive units, the tweeters are 2.7 metres apart.
The sweet spot is just forward of my seating position but its still extremely good.
If I could put my speakers 3m apart or my seat a bit closer that would be ideal, but there is a door and pool table in the way.
My speakers face directly forward as it gives the widest soundstage.
Each speaker is different so its worth seeing what suits best.
YeuEmMaiMai
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2004
- Messages
- 34,173
limited space man... limited space... house is only 15ft wide on the inside
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,875
I'm not sure I would do this. Surround receivers can add a good bit of input lag. I'd try to find another way of getting g the sound signal to the receiver. Maybe a separate HDMI cable, and not hooking your monitor up to the receiver?
I had to do a doubletake at the picture of the stuff to be fixed because of the HTR-5635 since I have an HTR-5560 staring me in the face.
this is relevant to my interest.. I have probably too much stereo gear for my pc setup.. but whatever...
1. Sony ES Stack (TA-N77ES, TA-E77ESD,..etc) w/ Yamaha NS-344 10" 3ways
2. Kenwood KR-V106R w/ JBL L1's
3. Pioneer SX-3600 w/ NHT Superzero's
4. schiit sys - Jamo mpa101 - M&K SX-7's
1. Sony ES Stack (TA-N77ES, TA-E77ESD,..etc) w/ Yamaha NS-344 10" 3ways
2. Kenwood KR-V106R w/ JBL L1's
3. Pioneer SX-3600 w/ NHT Superzero's
4. schiit sys - Jamo mpa101 - M&K SX-7's
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,875
I don't believe in the concept of "too much stereo gear"
Currently my desktop setup is a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC, with the output split, feeding into my Schiit Jotunheim headphone amp for use with my Sennheiser HD650's and my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's. It is also connected to my old HT surround receiver (Denon AVR x1300w) whiich I'm just using as a 2 channel amp to power my RBH 41-SE speakers and feed a signal to my SVS SB12-NSD sealed sub.
The most recent pic I have is not very high quality, as I've lost my DSLR charger, and can't make myself buy another, as I know I've seen it around here somewhere...
I keep forgetting to place my order for my custom speaker stands, but the yoga blocks are functional. Should be a little taller though.
I didn't really want to use a HT receiver for my desktop, but it's what I had handy, and it was cheaper to use it, than to go shopping for another 2 channel power amp.
In my livingroom I use a Denon AVR x3300w receiver for my 5.1 HT setup. The receiver powers the center channel (RBH 441-se) and surrounds (RBH 41-SE) directly, but for my main left and right channels (RBH SX6300 towers) I feed the line level outs into a Emotiva UPA2 2 channel power amp. I also have dual SVS PC13 Ultra tube subwoofers.
Here's an old pic from before I had the UPA2 in there:
Here's what the center area looks like now with the UPA2. Not ideal, but functional.
My plan is to get a 7 channel dedicated amplifier from either Emotiva or Outlaw Audio to drive all of my channels (with two to spare for future expansion) and once I do move that UPA2 back into my desktop, and try to sell off the AVR x1300w I have in there. I'll likely also pick up a Schiit sys in order to be able to switch between two inputs.
I don't believe in the concept of "too much stereo gear"
Currently my desktop setup is a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC, with the output split, feeding into my Schiit Jotunheim headphone amp for use with my Sennheiser HD650's and my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's. It is also connected to my old HT surround receiver (Denon AVR x1300w) whiich I'm just using as a 2 channel amp to power my RBH 41-SE speakers and feed a signal to my SVS SB12-NSD sealed sub.
The most recent pic I have is not very high quality, as I've lost my DSLR charger, and can't make myself buy another, as I know I've seen it around here somewhere...
View attachment 58703
I keep forgetting to place my order for my custom speaker stands, but the yoga blocks are functional. Should be a little taller though.
I didn't really want to use a HT receiver for my desktop, but it's what I had handy, and it was cheaper to use it, than to go shopping for another 2 channel power amp.
In my livingroom I use a Denon AVR x3300w receiver for my 5.1 HT setup. The receiver powers the center channel (RBH 441-se) and surrounds (RBH 41-SE) directly, but for my main left and right channels (RBH SX6300 towers) I feed the line level outs into a Emotiva UPA2 2 channel power amp. I also have dual SVS PC13 Ultra tube subwoofers.
Here's an old pic from before I had the UPA2 in there:
View attachment 58704
Here's what the center area looks like now with the UPA2. Not ideal, but functional.
View attachment 58705
My plan is to get a 7 channel dedicated amplifier from either Emotiva or Outlaw Audio to drive all of my channels (with two to spare for future expansion) and once I do move that UPA2 back into my desktop, and try to sell off the AVR x1300w I have in there. I'll likely also pick up a Schiit sys in order to be able to switch between two inputs.
How are the PC13 Ultra's treating you? With the open layout it looks like you're fighting a shitload of area (same as me), trying to decide on building a Marty or splurging on an Captivator 1400
D
Deleted member 93354
Guest
The best position for full range front speakers is on room primes laterally to prevent standing waves. At ear level for tweeters and toed in if you have a shallow angle to prevent off axis response. Distance from the rear wall varies on speaker design (cabinet, driver type and poeting all factor)and material behind the speaker and if you are tuning for a frequency. Luckily I don't have to worry about rear wall placement with my b&w Nautilis series.
But you are correct, moving them towards the corners will help. If he has lets say a 12' wide room then his ideal placements would either be 12/3, 12/5, 12/7 or 12/11' from the side walls (see how the denominators are primes?
D
Deleted member 93354
Guest
I used five 18" subs each 500 watts. Rear surrounds channel x 2 front channel x 2 and center x1. Nothing on the rear channels however.
Fills my 15x28 theater nicely.