[H]ardOCP Spec Bookshelf Speaker Setup

Nice dude!!! I very recently upgraded my 15 year old 2.1 Altec Lansing computer speakers for my computer. The Altec Lansing still works great. It's hooked up to a small-ish TV now. I upgraded to Klipsh R15PM reference desktop POWERED speakers with sub-out and grounding post if needed. It's got several input options. But I use USB in from the computer for best noise free audio. The sub-out goes to a POWERED subwoofer, Klipsch R115SW. A massive 15" sub. So it's now my new 2.1 audio system. Maybe upgrade to surround sound later. They currently sound amazing!


KlipschR-15PM.jpg


Klipsch-R-115SW_P_1200.jpg
 
HammerSandwich said:
Not sure how Audyssey handles deepest bass, because I'm more of a 2-channel, not HT, guy. Boost makes overload more likely, so it may play "safe." Powered subs include limiters to prevent damage, but Audyssey can't know where that line lies.


Most folks will recommend Room EQ Wizard (aka REW) with a UMIK/UMM-6. If you already have an audio interface with 48V phantom power, save $30 with the EMM/ECM versions.

I haven't heard squat about that $16 phone mic, though it claims calibration to 18Hz & Dayton's pretty reliable. Might be worth a shot.


That's basically it. A company called Bag End has subs that are flat to, IIRC, 8Hz at low levels. As the signal gets louder, they throw out the deepest frequencies to stay just in the safe zone. So a 110dB peak might go only to 40Hz, etc. You want to do the same thing with static settings & a careful touch on the volume knob.


The pro amp's still a good idea, because boost requires power. And it goes up fast: 3dB = 2x; 10dB = 10x. Plus, an XLS or iNuke is cheap power. Double plus, you won't have to sell it when you upgrade to an IB with 8x 18s.

This should all get a lot clearer if you spend a couple hours playing with a box sim, such as WinISD. Pay attention to transfer function (i.e., frequency response), excursion & amplifier VA as you change EQ, and it'll start to make sense.

A DSP iNuke could work well here, since your dedicated sub amp would do the EQ. Not sure if those amps let you boost below 20Hz, though you could reduce higher frequencies instead. Trim, you want to take over?


As Trim say, SVS calibrated the SB12's EQ, which is exactly why powered subs include DSP now. The UM18 kit is a driver & a box.
Click to expand...
The more you know about audio the less i realize i know
 
HammerSandwich A DSP iNuke could work well here, since your dedicated sub amp would do the EQ. Not sure if those amps let you boost below 20Hz, though you could reduce higher frequencies instead. Trim, you want to take over?


As Trim say, SVS calibrated the SB12's EQ, which is exactly why powered subs include DSP now. The UM18 kit is a driver & a box.

-----

Nah the iNuke won't EQ past 20 hz but it has both HP/LPF so you could extend your boost low and dictate your roll off. If you want to get boost past 20hz get a miniDSP.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
How does this work? Can you measure your current frequency reproduction in your room and EQ the entire thing flat?
Click to expand...
Yup but like Hammer said you need REW and a Umik Mic, Audyssey will rock with everything else. Having a miniDSP essentially gives you unlimited choices with a sub. 90% of the time, when building a sub and going low like 16hz you will destroy your speaker so a DSP of some kind is necessary.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Can you measure your current frequency reproduction in your room and EQ the entire thing flat?
Click to expand...

I wonder how time alignment of the set of drivers would mess with EQing, particularly with the sub being right next to one side or the other speaker.
 
Just unplugged a 20 yr old Polk PSW505 and replaced it with a HSU sub. Ooooohhhhhh. HTPC never sounded so good.

My other two run with the Klipsch promedia 2.1s. I like them, but they are outclassed by a discrete amp setup. They are good as desktop sets. Very good.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Nah, Audyssey balances them all really well, and even turned up to almost painful levels I don't have any unbalanced lack of output on any channel.

In fact, most in the know seem to recommend not worrying too much about the surrounds, as they are really just for effects, with very little mid or bass coming out of them, so putting great speakers on the surrounds is really just wasting them.

Even my Micca MB42X's are probably overkill. They are great little bookshelf speakers.

If anything, the problem I have with them is that the sound is a tad direct, meaning that if I sit left of center, I mostly hear the left, and if I sit right of center I mostly hear the right.

I'm going to try to elevate them a little.higher to try to reduce this problem. I hear that dipoles can fix this all together, but they probably ably wouldn't work in my room with the surrounds so close to the rear corners.
Click to expand...

I have a wide open living space with a half wall that cuts off about 1 foot from the listening spot as well as 14' ceilings so I feel your positioning pains. I got Mythos on wall surrounds, which are bi-polar and they helped greatly. Pot kettle from my comment they have 3.5" drivers and my mains are all larger, but they can still keep up well enough. Audyssey will pick up if you have "large" rears and adjust accordingly. You can drive lower levels through the rear especially with the new Dolby/DTS sound modes. You are right though that primarily it is going to utilize the high range.

In my secondary setup I have 4 deftech SM45's and 2 SM350's (SM45's replaced the SM350's) in a 7.1 and even though I have much higher end equipment in my main, I can 100% tell the difference having a speaker that can reach much lower levels driving the surrounds - and that's on a more than half decade old Pioneer 10 series receiver without the new bells and whistles.

My question was really in regard to tonal balancing with much smaller drivers on the rears (leading to piercing highs and no lows since his Infinity speakers were much more powerful) when trying to blend the set. In a perfect scenario you have all matching speakers, but as all us "budget audiophiles" know size and budget greatly effect that. If my wife would let me put BP8060's for the rears on my main I would, but 5' tall supertowers in the middle of the room probably is never happening.

For your out of center positioning - manual adjust. Audyssey does a horrible job of automatically positioning the rears. Tick distance/level step by step - depending on the receiver you have you can get to a pretty perfect listening position.
 
I use a mic2200 for DSP to keep my sub from blowing itself up (it starts to unload under 13hz, about). my system does play down to 14hz with very good volume, but it is done at 10hz. so the really awesome blackhawk down scenes that play 7-9hz make no noise at all in my room haha.

1.jpg
 
Hi audio pros- I'm looking to replace my Klipsch Promedia 2.1 by following this template and was wondering what you thought about the Klipsch RM-14M bookshelf speakers on sale for $95 on Amazon when compared to the Pioneer Andrew Jones at $129. I'm not concerned about the cost difference, wondering more about the quality difference, trying to keep total costs to $400ish or less. You guys sure do find some impressive sales!

Setup is hooked into TV in my small/medium sized living room. Coming from the 6.5" subwoofer on the promedia 2.1 I'm thinking any of those 8/10/12 inch subs would be more than adequate. Thanks for the perspective!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0473.JPG
    IMG_0473.JPG
    172 KB · Views: 39
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Welcome to the world of audiophools :) - you will soon realize how poor you are in this world - this is coming from a guy who has two high end pc's, one with i7 6700k + gtx 1080ti , and the other with i7 6900k + titan pascal sli - and Asus ROG 27 inch monitor :(. I will post some pictures, but my pc setup is 2.1 listed below, and it still needs improvement
(took me 3 years to buy everything because ....my money stopped growing on trees)
B&W 685 s2 --- soon to be upgraded to svs ultra bookshelf
IFI idsd micro as DAC or Parasound P5 preamp
Parasound a23 amp
svs nsd sb-12 subwoofer (also have the svs 13 ultra)
this setup is worth about 4K usd, and still considered to be "cheap" ........by audiophool standards :) :)

I would like to add bass management / active crossovers for cleaner sound, but those things also run 2k to 4k depending on brand and features

GL with your quest
 
haris said:
Welcome to the world of audiophools :) - you will soon realize how poor you are in this world - this is coming from a guy who has two high end pc's, one with i7 6700k + gtx 1080ti , and the other with i7 6900k + titan pascal sli - and Asus ROG 27 inch monitor :(. I will post some pictures, but my pc setup is 2.1 listed below, and it still needs improvement
(took me 3 years to buy everything because ....my money stopped growing on trees)
B&W 685 s2 --- soon to be upgraded to svs ultra bookshelf
IFI idsd micro as DAC or Parasound P5 preamp
Parasound a23 amp
svs nsd sb-12 subwoofer (also have the svs 13 ultra)
this setup is worth about 4K usd, and still considered to be "cheap" ........by audiophool standards :) :)

I would like to add bass management / active crossovers for cleaner sound, but those things also run 2k to 4k depending on brand and features

GL with your quest
Click to expand...


Agree,

Once you get bitten by the audio-bug, there is an endless supply of ever more expensive car-priced audio jewelry to invest in, and it can be difficult to resist.


And they keep building on eachother. "I need just this one more part to make the system perfect", rinse and repeat, over a and over again.

I want a little overkill with my last desktop and theater builds, so I hope that can hold off my desire to upgrade, but experience tells me the bug will probably be back...

33861708672_acd39490de_o.jpg


2017-05-01_02-15-40.jpg


Right now "I just need" a HT receiver with pre-outs so I can put my Emotiva UPA-2 power amp in there to drive these 4ohm towers. Then I'll be "done".

But "done" never lasts to long in this hobby. It easily becomes an unhealthy and expensive obsession. :p
 
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H] said:
Agree,

Once you get bitten by the audio-bug, there is an endless supply of ever more expensive car-priced audio jewelry to invest in, and it can be difficult to resist.


And they keep building on eachother. "I need just this one more part to make the system perfect", rinse and repeat, over a decade over again.

I want a little overkill with my last desktop and theater builds, so I hope that can hold off my desire to upgrade, but experience tells me the bug will probably be back...


Right now "I just need" a HT receiver with pre-outs so I can put my Emotiva UPA-2 power amp in there to drive these 4ohm towers. Then I'll be "done".

But "done" never lasts to long in this hobby. It easily becomes an unhealthy and expensive obsession. :p
Click to expand...


If you need help we can trade setups. I think having you start over at a low level again would make you start to appreciate the small steps forward again!

I offer this selfless opportunity of my own good will and generosity.

Think it over

:)
 
So I am finishing up my HT, I ended up going with:

5x SVS Ultra bookshelves
A Denon x4300h receiver
4x Elac A4's (I'd love to have done in-ceiling but can't)
SVS SB 2000 sub (my room isn't huge, only about 16x13, roughly 1430 cubic feet).
65" KS 8000 tv.

Anyone have any good links for someone new that explains the set up and things to do? LIke Crossover and other audio terms/what it means, etc. My general understand is that crossover is where you have the system send things to certain speakers/sub but yeah, I'm still learning a lot of things as I go.
 
Stiler said:
So I am finishing up my HT, I ended up going with:

5x SVS Ultra bookshelves
A Denon x4300h receiver
4x Elac A4's (I'd love to have done in-ceiling but can't)
SVS SB 2000 sub (my room isn't huge, only about 16x13, roughly 1430 cubic feet).
65" KS 8000 tv.

Anyone have any good links for someone new that explains the set up and things to do? LIke Crossover and other audio terms/what it means, etc. My general understand is that crossover is where you have the system send things to certain speakers/sub but yeah, I'm still learning a lot of things as I go.
Click to expand...

Rules of thumb are as follows:
  • Audyssey is a good start, but don't put too much faith in it. Allow it to run, and use the max number of samples it will allow, and follow the instructions carefully (usually all sample points within 24" of the main one, and no sample points closer than 20" to a rear wall)
  • When running Audyssey it will ask you whether you want Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume. I recommend answering no, as it can mess with the sound.
  • After that go in and adjust the settings manually. Best practice appears to be to set all of your speakers as small, even if you have large mains as I do, and then allow the sub to handle the bass.
  • Generally, don't set crossovers any lower than the lowest frequency of the speakers +20hz, so if the speakers are rated for 60hz-20,000hz for instance, set the crossover no lower than 80hz.
  • That being said, you may want to choose a higher crossover as it may provide a more even and pleasant bass.

My main towers are rated down to 35hz. I started with the crossovers down at 55hz, but I actually liked the sound better with the crossovers up at 80hz, which is where I run them now. I actually run 80hz all around on all my speakers in my HT setup as it seems to sound great. Good even bass across the range. You'll want to experiment a little here, but probably not go too high, or you might start getting directional sound from your sub, which you don't want. I probably wouldn't set the crossover above 120hz unless you absolutely need to.

Feel free to reach out if you have any further questions.
 
Last edited:
Stiler said:
So I am finishing up my HT, I ended up going with:

5x SVS Ultra bookshelves
A Denon x4300h receiver
4x Elac A4's (I'd love to have done in-ceiling but can't)
SVS SB 2000 sub (my room isn't huge, only about 16x13, roughly 1430 cubic feet).
65" KS 8000 tv.

Anyone have any good links for someone new that explains the set up and things to do? LIke Crossover and other audio terms/what it means, etc. My general understand is that crossover is where you have the system send things to certain speakers/sub but yeah, I'm still learning a lot of things as I go.
Click to expand...

Can I make some suggestions?
the ultra bookshelves are great - I use them in my 2.1 channel
I would pass on the denon if you can, and grab this an emotiva pre/ emotiva amp (if budget allows - and will keep the upgrade bug away)
SB 2000 is a great subwoofer - but also look at pb-2000, since "it seems" you will be doing movies mostly you want that deep bass extension - But depending on the room size a sealed sub can actually go lower (my sb12- nsd hits 16hz in my room, thus the reason I dont use the sb13)
maybe you should skip the Elac's for now :)
just my .02 cents,
also I am thinking you meant 4 ultra's and one ultra center channel

-a proper 5.1 setup that is WELL optimized, integrated, with PROPER bass management will beat out any 9.1, 11.1/11.2 setup. Same goes true for 2.1 channels. An amazing 2.1 channel will beat out a 5.1 /9.1 system for Music listening any day, but not movies :) -

good luck
 
No specialized center, I went with 5 ultra bookshelves as I have room for it vertically. i was under the impression that the best choice for L/C/R was all the same speaker if you can accommodate a vertical center, as specialized centers are usually compromised by their horizontal design limitations.

Regarding the SB2000/PB2000 I went back and fourth on it, the PB is a lot larger + more expensive (but more lower extension) but my room is already quite small (1430 cubic feet),and I found one 500 and something shipped so it was hard to pass up. I would have liked to have went with the HSU VTF3-MK5 but it's hard to find a deal on them and hsu doesn't seem to sell b-stock really so that woulda put it at like 900'ish once shipping comes in which put it over my budget.

I'd love to have went with amps but wayyy over my budget to do that.

Atmos was one of my main goals since I'm going this route for movies mostly (4k/atmos blu rays), then gaming/music. Plus I just really want to hear fifth element in atmos lol.
 
Stiler said:
No specialized center, I went with 5 ultra bookshelves as I have room for it vertically. i was under the impression that the best choice for L/C/R was all the same speaker if you can accommodate a vertical center, as specialized centers are usually compromised by their horizontal design limitations.

Regarding the SB2000/PB2000 I went back and fourth on it, the PB is a lot larger + more expensive (but more lower extension) but my room is already quite small (1430 cubic feet),and I found one 500 and something shipped so it was hard to pass up. I would have liked to have went with the HSU VTF3-MK5 but it's hard to find a deal on them and hsu doesn't seem to sell b-stock really so that woulda put it at like 900'ish once shipping comes in which put it over my budget.

I'd love to have went with amps but wayyy over my budget to do that.

Atmos was one of my main goals since I'm going this route for movies mostly (4k/atmos blu rays), then gaming/music. Plus I just really want to hear fifth element in atmos lol.
Click to expand...


Ah I see - that makes sense, yes 500$ is am amazing deal on a SB2000 :) - you will enjoy it. SVS is the bomb!
I think these audio brands should be on everyones list!
SVS
Emotiva
Parasound
Outlaw Audio
and now MONOPRICE!!! - with their monolith amps
HSU

good luck
 
My Outlaw 5000 should be delivered to the office today; I've got my SVS Ultra bookshelves sitting on my desk hooked up to an Emotiva A-100 MiniX. Next up: Disconnect it all and drag it over to the new house so I can finally get the party started in my new HT space.

End game will be Ultra bookshelves for L/C/R, SVS Satellites for rears, and SVS Elevations for height speakers. Maybe 2x subwoofers, but I'm going DIY on those and probably selling my PC-2000 to cover the costs.
 
WhoBeDaPlaya said:
Fry's has a killer deal on the Andrew Jones bookshelves, towers and centers this week :
https://slickdeals.net/f/10010936-p...54-in-store-and-online-with-free-shipping?v=1

SP-BS22-LR $69pr; SP-FS52 $69ea; SP-C22 $54 - in-store and online w/ free shipping

Have a setup with 4x SP-FS52, 1x SP-C22, Velodyne DPS-12, Onkyo TX-SR606 - (relatively) cheap and sounds great!
Click to expand...

I bought this system about a year ago for the same price on Amazon. Totally worth it, amazing sound for the money.

Now I am looking for a new sub as my old JBL seems to have exploded. The level adjustment isn't working anymore and it just makes this loud irritating rumble whenever I adjust it.
 
NickJames said:
I bought this system about a year ago for the same price on Amazon. Totally worth it, amazing sound for the money.

Now I am looking for a new sub as my old JBL seems to have exploded. The level adjustment isn't working anymore and it just makes this loud irritating rumble whenever I adjust it.
Click to expand...

Scratchy/noisy (sometimes to the point where you get no sound at all) pots are one of the most common problems with audio hardware, and are luckily often easy to fix, which I would try to do before spending money, if you are happy with the performance of the unit (when it works)

Sometimes just a cleaning of the pot can fix it, by blowing compressed air into or if that doesn't work using an electronics contact cleaner. If you google it there are many guides.

If this doesn't work, you might be able to replace the pot in order to save the sub. If you are not good at soldering yourself there are electronics repair shops that cater to the audiophile, music and other consumer electronics markets that will do stuff like that for a nominal fee.
 
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H] said:
Scratchy/noisy (sometimes to the point where you get no sound at all) pots are one of the most common problems with audio hardware, and are luckily often easy to fix, which I would try to do before spending money, if you are happy with the performance of the unit (when it works)

Sometimes just a cleaning of the pot can fix it, by blowing compressed air into or if that doesn't work using an electronics contact cleaner. If you google it there are many guides.

If this doesn't work, you might be able to replace the pot in order to save the sub. If you are not good at soldering yourself there are electronics repair shops that cater to the audiophile, music and other consumer electronics markets that will do stuff like that for a nominal fee.
Click to expand...

I'll have to look into it. It makes a scratchy rumble sound as I am turning the dial and it basically has 2 settings right now, explosive and whisper. We've had the sub for about 10 years so it's not a big deal to replace it if I find something at a decent price. It's not the greatest sub, it was part of a box setup.

JBL SCS 200
Specs:
Low Frequency Cut-off: 35Hz
High Frequency Cut-off: 160Hz
Built-in Power Amplifier: 100 Watt RMS
Driver: 8"

I would probably be better off just buying a new one for my current setup. I want something with a bit more kick anyway.
 
Last edited:
NickJames said:
I'll have to look into it. It makes a scratchy rumble sound as I am turning the dial and it basically has 2 settings right now, explosive and whisper. We've had the sub for about 10 years so it's not a big deal to replace it if I find something at a decent price.
Click to expand...


Yeah, first thing I'd try is to open it as much as possible and use one of those narrow tubes and a compressed air can and just blast in there as much as possible. Sometimes you luck out and it just works without taking it apart. You can just blast the compressed air through the cracks in the chassis.

If that doesn't work, then contact cleaner is the next step. You'll find many YouTube video guides. Last step is to buy a completely new pot with the same spec and replace it, or have someone do it for you. If you are happy with the sound, it seems like a waste to spend money on something new :p
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yeah, first thing I'd try is to open it as much as possible and use one of those narrow tubes and a compressed air can and just blast in there as much as possible. Sometimes you luck out and it just works without taking it apart. You can just blast the compressed air through the cracks in the chassis.

If that doesn't work, then contact cleaner is the next step. You'll find many YouTube video guides. Last step is to buy a completely new pot with the same spec and replace it, or have someone do it for you. If you are happy with the sound, it seems like a waste to spend money on something new :p
Click to expand...

Well I did buy a whole new sound system, the sub was the last thing on the list to replace cause it was working fine. I don't know the experience having a great sub so I was thinking of just going ahead and replacing it anyway. I'll pop it open when I get home and see what happens though.
 
NickJames said:
Well I did buy a whole new sound system, the sub was the last thing on the list to replace cause it was working fine. I don't know the experience having a great sub so I was thinking of just going ahead and replacing it anyway. I'll pop it open when I get home and see what happens though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I tend to try to keep old parts alive even when I am upgrading. You can always use them for something else.

My SVS SB12-NSD which was a little anemic fro my HT system is now serving in a total overkill role under my desk.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yeah, I tend to try to keep old parts alive even when I am upgrading. You can always use them for something else.

My SVS SB12-NSD which was a little anemic fro my HT system is now serving in a total overkill role under my desk.
Click to expand...
I had a sealed 12 I used for my pc once, I had to get rid of it though, even at very low volumes it was uncomfortable to be around, I'm not sure how you do it lol.
 
Trimlock said:
I had a sealed 12 I used for my pc once, I had to get rid of it though, even at very low volumes it was uncomfortable to be around, I'm not sure how you do it lol.
Click to expand...


To be honest, I only just set it up, and I have been so busy with my new job that I haven't had the time to dial it in yet to my liking. I also bought a vintage NAD Integrated Amp (7250pe) on Craigslist to use for my desk setup, so I could move my overkill Emotiva APU-2 amp to my HT system to help drive my 40hm towers.

I have noticed that the sub seems to be a bit much, but I thought it was just that I needed to tweak the settings a bit.

If it doesn't work out, I'll just move it to the kitchen, where I currently have an 8" Dayton SUB-800 which is struggling to keep up with the size of the room. There are always alternate places you can use old gear :)

Question is what I would use at my desk if I did this. I'd move the 8" Dayton there, but I'm not convinced I'd be happy with it. My RBH 41-se's already have bass performance that belie their appearance and specs. They are rated down to 60hz, but definitely go deeper. I'm not sure if I'd be happy with the 8" sub that is only rated down to 40hz, but then again, maybe I would be?

If you don't mind me asking, what do you use in your desk setup?
 
Last edited:
I built a pair of Sprites and a 6.5" sub I ported, the sub is tuned to 50hz and only powered to a max of 25 watts. Decent kick, but the Sprites have more output so I'll be trashing it soon and building something a bit better, probably using a Dayton 8".
 
Last edited:
 
DigitalGriffin said:
Except you get broadcasters ear syndrom. Something about the close enclosed nature of headphone causes hearing loss in the long term. Don't get me wrong. I have my own set of nice cans (sennheiser), but I only use then for critical listening when I need to isolate outside sounds and only with my really good amp. (The small drivers in good headphones have a notoriously high resistance which is hard to drive by most amps)
Click to expand...

Nenu said:
Yeah my brother has serious problems if he starts to turn his hifi up now, caused by using headphones for years.
Its all high end kit he uses so not caused by distortion.
He's a bit sad so has configured his speakers to give more detail at lower volume levels.
I dodged a bullet by not using headphones, I love the sound of my system when pumped up!
Click to expand...

Just read through this thread (great info on audio equipment BTW!) but wanted to inquire about this phenomenon regarding headphones and hearing loss.

I used to hang around Head-Fi quite a bit and I believe that this is the first I have heard of headphone use leading to accelerated/worse hearing loss than speakers.

You'll have to forgive me but I just want to understand...I don't see how headphones would be any worse for your ears when used responsibly. I have always been under the impression that hearing loss was caused by exposure to loud volume levels (of anything, whether that be music, engines, a jackhammer, whatever) and not influenced by the proximity of the noise source to your ear, assuming volume levels are the same. In other words, a safe noise level of 60 dB shouldn't cause hearing loss whether that's measured at 60 dB at your ear from speakers or 60 dB from headphones. Is this not the case?

And if it is the case, then IEMs should in theory be absolutely avoided since that's going one step further and putting the drivers IN your ear, as well as sealing off any possibility for the sound to escape. It would be like force-fucking your eardrum. But I thought that this was balanced out by the fact that with headphones and IEMs, the "danger" of having the source of sound so close to your ears was balanced out by the fact that you need to apply MUCH less volume in order to get the same output level that you would from speakers.

Other than that, my only input after reading this thread is that you guys have me wanting to spend more money on hi-fi despite me being perfectly happy with what I have now. :D
 
Lateralus said:
Just read through this thread (great info on audio equipment BTW!) but wanted to inquire about this phenomenon regarding headphones and hearing loss.

I used to hang around Head-Fi quite a bit and I believe that this is the first I have heard of headphone use leading to accelerated/worse hearing loss than speakers.

You'll have to forgive me but I just want to understand...I don't see how headphones would be any worse for your ears when used responsibly. I have always been under the impression that hearing loss was caused by exposure to loud volume levels (of anything, whether that be music, engines, a jackhammer, whatever) and not influenced by the proximity of the noise source to your ear, assuming volume levels are the same. In other words, a safe noise level of 60 dB shouldn't cause hearing loss whether that's measured at 60 dB at your ear from speakers or 60 dB from headphones. Is this not the case?

And if it is the case, then IEMs should in theory be absolutely avoided since that's going one step further and putting the drivers IN your ear, as well as sealing off any possibility for the sound to escape. It would be like force-fucking your eardrum. But I thought that this was balanced out by the fact that with headphones and IEMs, the "danger" of having the source of sound so close to your ears was balanced out by the fact that you need to apply MUCH less volume in order to get the same output level that you would from speakers.

Other than that, my only input after reading this thread is that you guys have me wanting to spend more money on hi-fi despite me being perfectly happy with what I have now. :D
Click to expand...


I'm not convinced.

I've been using nothing but headphones for decades until about a year ago when I started looking into speakers.

In my late 30's I still have good hearing up to about 17khz, which is quite good for my age.

I used to annoy my stepsons before I got divorced, because I could hear that "mosquito" ringtone the kids were secretly using that no adult was supposed to be able to hear.

I don't think it's headphones - per se - that are to blame, but rather listening to shit too loud that is the problem.
 
I find that people who listen with closed headphones have the biggest issues. Even buds as those pit the drivers even closer to your ear drum and entrap the sound inside your canal.
 
Lateralus said:
Just read through this thread (great info on audio equipment BTW!) but wanted to inquire about this phenomenon regarding headphones and hearing loss.

I used to hang around Head-Fi quite a bit and I believe that this is the first I have heard of headphone use leading to accelerated/worse hearing loss than speakers.

You'll have to forgive me but I just want to understand...I don't see how headphones would be any worse for your ears when used responsibly. I have always been under the impression that hearing loss was caused by exposure to loud volume levels (of anything, whether that be music, engines, a jackhammer, whatever) and not influenced by the proximity of the noise source to your ear, assuming volume levels are the same. In other words, a safe noise level of 60 dB shouldn't cause hearing loss whether that's measured at 60 dB at your ear from speakers or 60 dB from headphones. Is this not the case?

And if it is the case, then IEMs should in theory be absolutely avoided since that's going one step further and putting the drivers IN your ear, as well as sealing off any possibility for the sound to escape. It would be like force-fucking your eardrum. But I thought that this was balanced out by the fact that with headphones and IEMs, the "danger" of having the source of sound so close to your ears was balanced out by the fact that you need to apply MUCH less volume in order to get the same output level that you would from speakers.

Other than that, my only input after reading this thread is that you guys have me wanting to spend more money on hi-fi despite me being perfectly happy with what I have now. :D
Click to expand...
Its not down to whether they are used responsibly, its down to making it sound/feel how you like.

I think its down to bass level or feel.
Your body doesnt get the same bass cues with headphones.
To compensate you either turn the volume up loud to get enough bass feel or increase bass to get more feel.
Either causes noticeable damage with sustained use at high volume.
 
Lateralus said:
Just read through this thread (great info on audio equipment BTW!) but wanted to inquire about this phenomenon regarding headphones and hearing loss.

I used to hang around Head-Fi quite a bit and I believe that this is the first I have heard of headphone use leading to accelerated/worse hearing loss than speakers.

You'll have to forgive me but I just want to understand...I don't see how headphones would be any worse for your ears when used responsibly. I have always been under the impression that hearing loss was caused by exposure to loud volume levels (of anything, whether that be music, engines, a jackhammer, whatever) and not influenced by the proximity of the noise source to your ear, assuming volume levels are the same. In other words, a safe noise level of 60 dB shouldn't cause hearing loss whether that's measured at 60 dB at your ear from speakers or 60 dB from headphones. Is this not the case?

And if it is the case, then IEMs should in theory be absolutely avoided since that's going one step further and putting the drivers IN your ear, as well as sealing off any possibility for the sound to escape. It would be like force-fucking your eardrum.
Click to expand...

I can't recall the exact reason, but I remember one theory that it had to do with the fact closed off ears promoted a warm moist environment that encouraged bacterial growth which attacked the hairs inside your cochlea.

One thing for sure the number of broadcasters with hearing issues is definitely without a doubt higher than the general population.
 
Necroing this.

So my current setup is a Yamaha HTR-5830 powering: Front L/R: Infinity Primus P363, Center: Infinity PC251BK, Sub: Polk Audio PSW10

So I am looking to update the receiver and my thoughts are Onkyo TX-NR656 or a Denon AVR-X1300W. These are mostly due to budget limits and was wondering what your thoughts are or possibly other recommendations?

Thank you!
 
Darunion said:
Necroing this.

So my current setup is a Yamaha HTR-5830 powering: Front L/R: Infinity Primus P363, Center: Infinity PC251BK, Sub: Polk Audio PSW10

So I am looking to update the receiver and my thoughts are Onkyo TX-NR656 or a Denon AVR-X1300W. These are mostly due to budget limits and was wondering what your thoughts are or possibly other recommendations?

Thank you!
Click to expand...

Not really Necroing IMHO. This thread isn't that old. Slightly off topic though :p

I've had an AVR-x1300w since January and it's been a very good receiver to me. I did just buy a higher end receiver we to replace it though.

The only reason I am replacing it for my HT system is because of my unusual setup.

I bought a pair of discontinued semi-rare high end tower speakers that really like lots of power at 4ohm impedance. While they do sound good with the x1300w, I'm concerned enough that people other than me might turn up the volume into clipping, so I want to use a dedicated separate amp for these speakers.

Because of this, I needed a receiver with pre-amp outs for the front left and rights, which the x1300w doesn't have. If it were not for this, I would be keeping it.

I used to use it with a very similar setup to yours, a set of Infinity Primus 360's and an Infinity Beta C250 center.

As long as you don't need pre-amp outs, I'd argue there is no need to go higher up the chain for Denon receivers. I've been very happy with it.

As for the Onkyo I have never used one, so I can't speak to it. I have heard others say that Onkyo's receivers aren't quite as good as they used to be and that they don't really compare favorably to Denon anymore.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top