[H]ardOCP Spec Bookshelf Speaker Setup

Zarathustra[H] said:
Not really Necroing IMHO. This thread isn't that old. Slightly off topic though :p

I've had an AVR-x1300w since January and it's been a very good receiver to me. I did just buy a higher end receiver we to replace it though.
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Fair enough haha.

Good information thank you very much.

I really miss having stores nearby that you could go into sound rooms and test out configs before buying. Always nervous about buying sound equipment without listening to it first.
 
Darunion said:
Fair enough haha.

Good information thank you very much.

I really miss having stores nearby that you could go into sound rooms and test out configs before buying. Always nervous about buying sound equipment without listening to it first.
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Well, if you are ever in Mass you are welcome to stop by for a listen. I'll even consider selling my x1300w :p
 
If you do go Onkyo, find out if your particular model gets hot.
If so, fit a large slow silent fan on top to keep it cool and dont put it in a cabinet.

I had an Onkyo 875, a model that used to get incredibly hot, many failed due to heat stress.
From almost day one I fitted a 250mm fan on top drawing air up out of it which kept it nice and cool.
My parents use it as their main AV amp 9 years later now, its like brand new still.
 
Nenu said:
If you do go Onkyo, find out if your particular model gets hot.
If so, fit a large slow silent fan on top to keep it cool and dont put it in a cabinet.

I had an Onkyo 875, a model that used to get incredibly hot, many failed due to heat stress.
From almost day one I fitted a 250mm fan on top drawing air up out of it which kept it nice and cool.
My parents use it as their main AV amp 9 years later now, its like brand new still.
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Thanks will make sure to research
 
Nenu said:
If you do go Onkyo, find out if your particular model gets hot.
If so, fit a large slow silent fan on top to keep it cool and dont put it in a cabinet.

I had an Onkyo 875, a model that used to get incredibly hot, many failed due to heat stress.
From almost day one I fitted a 250mm fan on top drawing air up out of it which kept it nice and cool.
My parents use it as their main AV amp 9 years later now, its like brand new still.
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Interesting because those MOSFETS can take a thermal beating.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Well, if you are ever in Mass you are welcome to stop by for a listen. I'll even consider selling my x1300w :p
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Just wanted to thank you for the recommendation on the receiver. My fiance was convinced it was worth getting (every hdmi going into a splitter and split fiber optic audio cables got messy) so I grabbed a refurb X1300for $300 (still has denon 1yr warranty) and at least for the evening I played with it, it sounds great.

now to spend the next week tweaking and will be connecting my pc to this as well. :)
 
Darunion said:
Just wanted to thank you for the recommendation on the receiver. My fiance was convinced it was worth getting (every hdmi going into a splitter and split fiber optic audio cables got messy) so I grabbed a refurb X1300for $300 (still has denon 1yr warranty) and at least for the evening I played with it, it sounds great.

now to spend the next week tweaking and will be connecting my pc to this as well. :)
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Happy to help!

Try x1300w is great. I'm still using it as a 2 channel 2.1 amp for my desktop. I was going to sell it and buy more of an audiophile 2 channel amp, but I'm not sure how much I'll get for it used vs what a 2 channel amp will cost me, so for now I'm still using it in that capacity.

My HT setup is recent updates to an x3300w
 
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I just have a Klipsch promedia 2.1 at my Pc which has done well for me. I picked up a Logitech G633 last week which I find much better. Now if you will be watch a lot of media at your PC then a dedicated speaker setup is good I was just supriised at how much more I could hear even in something like Heroes of the Storm that I hadn't head before.

What I have found when setting up surround sound systems of any kind is the room is almost more important than the equipment.
 
Design1stcode2nd said:
What I have found when setting up surround sound systems of any kind is the room is almost more important than the equipment.
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Making the most of your equipment through proper room treatments should be the first step of anybody who is looking to maximize their audio at any budget. Your statement is pretty much spot on. If you've got sound problems fix the space first.
 
Design1stcode2nd said:
I just have a Klipsch promedia 2.1 at my Pc which has done well for me. I picked up a Logitech G633 last week which I find much better. Now if you will be watch a lot of media at your PC then a dedicated speaker setup is good I was just supriised at how much more I could hear even in something like Heroes of the Storm that I hadn't head before.

What I have found when setting up surround sound systems of any kind is the room is almost more important than the equipment.
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With near field sound, the room won't change anything.
 
Design1stcode2nd said:
What I have found when setting up surround sound systems of any kind is the room is almost more important than the equipment.
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This is definitely the case. Having a well treated room (more soft absorbent surfaces, fewer hard reflective surfaces, and more of a contained space rather than open arches to other rooms) will go much further in a surround setup than upgrading your receiver or speakers.

Only problem is that most people don't have the means or desire to reconfigure their entire home around a surround system, and if you start going nuts with sound absorbing treatments the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) plummets in a hurry.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
This is definitely the case. Having a well treated room (more soft absorbent surfaces, fewer hard reflective surfaces, and more of a contained space rather than open arches to other rooms) will go much further in a surround setup than upgrading your receiver or speakers.

Only problem is that most people don't have the means or desire to reconfigure their entire home around a surround system, and if you start going nuts with sound absorbing treatments the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) plummets in a hurry.
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Oh I agree, it's why I have gone down the headphone route although this angers the wife as well as I can't hear her when she yells for me. :)

I've toyed with finding a way to stream my PC to my projector which could be done with a shield TV (which I have) but I'd want my N52TE (old version of an Orbweaver) and mouse. In the end while it would be nice it would end up being a hassle and I'd be gaming at a lower resolution so I've just ended up leaving consoles in my theater.

Playing the latest Tomb raider in there was pretty sweet though. Nothing beats a dedicated, blacked out room with proper treatments. I don't think I could play a horror title in there.
 
I couldn't imagine playing a horror title in VR with good headphones. Sometimes I had to turn up the lights just in The Last of Us with all those clickers.
 
Hi audiophiles- just want to check that you'd still recommend this setup. I bought the Andrew Jones bookshelf speakers a few months ago. Any reason to change up the remaining components?

FYI- this will plug into my TV and replace a Klipsche Promedia 2.1 system

Here's my list:
Amp - $78
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dta-120-class-t-mini-amplifier-60-wpc--300-3800

Subwoofer - $148
https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...-powered-subwoofer--300-629#lblProductDetails

Digital to analog converter - $20
https://www.parts-express.com/fiio-d03k-coaxial-optical-dac-digital-analog-converter--230-120

$2 - Get a digital audio cable
https://www.parts-express.com/toslink-digital-optical-audio-cable-6-ft--180-942

Any reason that my 18-gauge 2 conductor stranded radio shack speaker wire should be replaced? If so, what would be your recommendation from parts express?

Thank you for your advice, I'm stoked to have a better stereo!
 
Napoleon said:
Any reason that my 18-gauge 2 conductor stranded radio shack speaker wire should be replaced?
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That mostly depends on how long they are. Try for resistance below 0.1 ohm or thereabouts. And if you have extra wire, doubling up gives 15AWG, which is almost certainly adequate.

If so, what would be your recommendation from parts express?
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Whatever all-copper (not clad aluminum!) 12-14AWG is the best deal when you buy.
 
HammerSandwich said:
That mostly depends on how long they are. Try for resistance below 0.1 ohm or thereabouts. And if you have extra wire, doubling up gives 15AWG, which is almost certainly adequate.


Whatever all-copper (not clad aluminum!) 12-14AWG is the best deal when you buy.
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The wires should be less than 6 feet between the amp and the speaker, I'd prefer to not have another spool laying around but would like to balance audio quality with the cost of buying extra wire. I'm already going to be using high level inputs to the subwoofer so would prefer to not double up wire
 
I can't for see an issue with 18awg. But if you are worried just feel it. If the wire is getting hot during playback then you need to increase in size.
 
Trimlock said:
I can't for see an issue with 18awg. But if you are worried just feel it. If the wire is getting hot during playback then you need to increase in size.
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This reference seems to say it should be just fine as it's a 6 ohm speaker :)

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-cable-gauge

upload_2017-7-25_11-17-12.png
 
Napoleon said:
Hi audiophiles- just want to check that you'd still recommend this setup. I bought the Andrew Jones bookshelf speakers a few months ago. Any reason to change up the remaining components?

FYI- this will plug into my TV and replace a Klipsche Promedia 2.1 system

Here's my list:
Amp - $78
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dta-120-class-t-mini-amplifier-60-wpc--300-3800

Subwoofer - $148
https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...-powered-subwoofer--300-629#lblProductDetails

Digital to analog converter - $20
https://www.parts-express.com/fiio-d03k-coaxial-optical-dac-digital-analog-converter--230-120

$2 - Get a digital audio cable
https://www.parts-express.com/toslink-digital-optical-audio-cable-6-ft--180-942

Any reason that my 18-gauge 2 conductor stranded radio shack speaker wire should be replaced? If so, what would be your recommendation from parts express?

Thank you for your advice, I'm stoked to have a better stereo!
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Any feedback on the shopping list? I'm ready to pull the trigger
 
18AWG is fine for short distances (and I mean like even 6-8 feet).

I have that same sub, I like it. I mean it's not the best, but the price is jaw dropping. The subwoofer magnet is decent too. I have paid more for far less. I had a local glass cutting shop cut a custom piece of glass to put on top of it so I could use it as a coffee table between two couches. My only complaint (and I think others have noted this) is that the "auto" feature is super aggressive, it will shut down after like 20 seconds of no signal....it should be like 5-10 minutes. I just leave mine set to "on".

I have purchased many things from PE over the last 2 decades and I am highly satisfied with them. I have only had to return 1 thing and they were incredibly awesome with the issue.

My only consideration would be the amplifier. It's plenty of power for using on a desktop or small room and they are very power efficient. I have been playing with the digital amps last couple years and it's stunning how little heat they put off. However you can get a basic stereo receiver brand new from Best Buy for $130 (less if open box) that has input switching and a remote. But it's big. Where as the little digital amps can sit on a desk comfortably. I got a solid eary 2000's Sony reciever off Craigs List for $40 for in the garage. Excellent deal if you just need basic stereo or audio only switching (it's dolby digital, but from the S-Video era). They won't do high def D-A conversion though, so now you are more like into the $200 range.

On that note....why do the basic stereo recievers not have freaking digital inputs still?!?!?!? Even mid range stereo recievers often don't have digital in. WTF.
 
westrock2000 said:
18AWG is fine for short distances (and I mean like even 6-8 feet).]
My only consideration would be the amplifier. It's plenty of power for using on a desktop or small room and they are very power efficient. I have been playing with the digital amps last couple years and it's stunning how little heat they put off. However you can get a basic stereo receiver brand new from Best Buy for $130 (less if open box) that has input switching and a remote. But it's big. Where as the little digital amps can sit on a desk comfortably. I got a solid eary 2000's Sony reciever off Craigs List for $40 for in the garage. Excellent deal if you just need basic stereo or audio only switching (it's dolby digital, but from the S-Video era). They won't do high def D-A conversion though, so now you are more like into the $200 range.

On that note....why do the basic stereo recievers not have freaking digital inputs still?!?!?!? Even mid range stereo recievers often don't have digital in. WTF.
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Hmm, yea for $80 i'm not sure I can beat it, as I want simple and a small amp. The speakers, Pioneer Andrew Jones Bookshelfs, are only 80w max, it seems this amp fits it perfectly and comes with glowing reviews from the group here.

Thanks for your feedback, I'm about to pull zee trigger
 
I am a cheap dude and use a 100% Yamaha setup with NS-6490's as my speakers, I have a pair that is over 25 years old and the other 2 pairs are 2012 vintage :p a Yamaha RXV667 does the driving work and for bass I use a pair of YST-215's
 
Napoleon said:
Hmm, yea for $80 i'm not sure I can beat it, as I want simple and a small amp. The speakers, Pioneer Andrew Jones Bookshelfs, are only 80w max, it seems this amp fits it perfectly and comes with glowing reviews from the group here.

Thanks for your feedback, I'm about to pull zee trigger
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Don't get me wrong, the amp is pretty decent, but the reason I originally recommended it to Kyle was because he explicitly stated he was "not into the whole audiophile thing".

It has a great amount of output in a small, power efficient package, and sounds pretty decent, but they achieve this at a THD of 10% at the top end, which is excessively high by audiophile standards. For a desktop setup, this is unlikely to matter much, as you'll rarely crank it up that high, but for anything bigger, where you might be running with it cranked more often, I'd consider alternatives.

You are correct in suggesting, you are unlikely to find anything much better for the price. That is if you shop new. I would check craigslist in your area, sometimes you can find some surprisingly good deals on killer vintage amps. The recommendation du jour is for 80's and early 90's NAD amplifiers as they tend to over-deliver on power output at low distortion, but there are many other good ones out there as well.

For a TV setup like you are talking, you may just be happier with an actual home theater receiver, and there are some good deals for them recertified at accessories4less.com

This way you'll get true LFE support for the sub, and you can expand over time, adding a center channel or surround channels if you so desire, without having to swap out the amp.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Don't get me wrong, the amp is pretty decent, but the reason I originally recommended it to Kyle was because he explicitly stated he was "not into the whole audiophile thing".

It has a great amount of output in a small, power efficient package, and sounds pretty decent, but they achieve this at a THD of 10% at the top end, which is excessively high by audiophile standards. For a desktop setup, this is unlikely to matter much, as you'll rarely crank it up that high, but for anything bigger, where you might be running with it cranked more often, I'd consider alternatives.

You are correct in suggesting, you are unlikely to find anything much better for the price. That is if you shop new. I would check craigslist in your area, sometimes you can find some surprisingly good deals on killer vintage amps. The recommendation du jour is for 80's and early 90's NAD amplifiers as they tend to over-deliver on power output at low distortion, but there are many other good ones out there as well.

For a TV setup like you are talking, you may just be happier with an actual home theater receiver, and there are some good deals for them recertified at accessories4less.com

This way you'll get true LFE support for the sub, and you can expand over time, adding a center channel or surround channels if you so desire, without having to swap out the amp.
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hmm, i purchased it last night so I guess I'll hope for the best. I could probably cancel the order from parts express. I really like the 2.1 setup and don't plan on ever adding a center/surround. I was thinking that this should be much louder/higher quality than my Klipsche Promedia 2.1 which is currently hooked up

What would you advise? I do like having the ability to 'crank it up', although it's pretty infrequent that i'd want to. Perhaps I keep an eye out for the future for another receiver..to be honest I'm not even sure what to look for in specs, that was part of the appeal in trusting your advice, haha.
 
You can do 4k on the cheap, I got a brand new 43" 4k curved samsung for $450. I posted it in the hot deals section.
 
liffie420 said:
If you like those you shoudl check out the Philharmonic Audio Affordabel Accuracy Monitors they are $210 a pair. One of the most reccomended bookshelf speakers, for cheap, on the Audio forum I am member of.
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I like these so I think I will keep them. :) But thanks.
 
Napoleon said:
hmm, i purchased it last night so I guess I'll hope for the best. I could probably cancel the order from parts express. I really like the 2.1 setup and don't plan on ever adding a center/surround. I was thinking that this should be much louder/higher quality than my Klipsche Promedia 2.1 which is currently hooked up

What would you advise? I do like having the ability to 'crank it up', although it's pretty infrequent that i'd want to. Perhaps I keep an eye out for the future for another receiver..to be honest I'm not even sure what to look for in specs, that was part of the appeal in trusting your advice, haha.
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I wouldn't worry about it too much, I just got worried when you started throwing out the "audiophile" word.

I've never used a Klipsch Promedia 2.1 system, but if they are anything like my old Logitech z623's they are plenty loud for a desktop application, but the sound quality is on the low side and the frequency reproduction is rather V-shaped (lots of treble, lots of bass, poor mid-range)

The setup you are going for will not have this problem at all, and they get plenty loud. I don't have a pair of the Andrew Jones speakers, but I do have the DTA-120 amp hooked up in my kitchen, with a set of Micca MB42x speakers, and the 10" version of that Dayton sub, and I don't think I've ever turned it up more than half way. It gets more than sufficiently loud. The Andrew Jones speakers have a rated sensitivity of 85db, (meaning they produce 85db at 1 meter distance with 1 watt of power.) My Miccas have exactly the same sensitivity rating, so I think you'll be fine, unless you sit very far from your TV (sound drops off with the square of the distance to the source, so doubling the distance, divides the volume by 4.

You definitely have better speakers than the amp, but that's the classic audiophile recommendation anyway. Always spend your money on the best transducers (speakers/headphones) your budget allows, everything else is secondary.

So, I wouldn't worry.

All that said, don't underestimate the added benefit of a center channel, especially if you have a large viewing area.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I wouldn't worry about it too much, I just got worried when you started throwing out the "audiophile" word.

I've never used a Klipsch Promedia 2.1 system, but if they are anything like my old Logitech z623's they are plenty loud for a desktop application, but the sound quality is on the low side and the frequency reproduction is rather V-shaped (lots of treble, lots of bass, poor mid-range)

The setup you are going for will not have this problem at all, and they get plenty loud. I don't have a pair of the Andrew Jones speakers, but I do have the DTA-120 amp hooked up in my kitchen, with a set of Micca MB42x speakers, and the 10" version of that Dayton sub, and I don't think I've ever turned it up more than half way. It gets more than sufficiently loud. The Andrew Jones speakers have a rated sensitivity of 85db, (meaning they produce 85db at 1 meter distance with 1 watt of power.) My Miccas have exactly the same sensitivity rating, so I think you'll be fine, unless you sit very far from your TV (sound drops off with the square of the distance to the source, so doubling the distance, divides the volume by 4.

You definitely have better speakers than the amp, but that's the classic audiophile recommendation anyway. Always spend your money on the best transducers (speakers/headphones) your budget allows, everything else is secondary.

So, I wouldn't worry.

All that said, don't underestimate the added benefit of a center channel, especially if you have a large viewing area.
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You must have some pretty awesome tunes in your kitchen while you cook :)

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Yes it's just a Sharp 48" 1080p TV, gets the job done pretty well but the speakers will just sit on either side with the subwoofer off to the right of the table. I like value and to get advice from those who know (audiophiles), and certainly wouldn't describe myself as an expert
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The Logitech Z series was EQ'd for bass and offered little in high freq reproduction, mainly due to the "full range" driver they used. There was very little forming and direction was terrible, especially for the treble.

Klipsch, unlike the z series used an actual 2-way system with a hybrid active/passive cross over and had awesome directivity. They were legitimately a full range system that gave you control over a wide range of the freq band. As an HT speaker they were very passable, sounded better than 90% of the sound bars out there.
 
Trimlock said:
The Logitech Z series was EQ'd for bass and offered little in high freq reproduction, mainly due to the "full range" driver they used. There was very little forming and direction was terrible, especially for the treble.

Klipsch, unlike the z series used an actual 2-way system with a hybrid active/passive cross over and had awesome directivity. They were legitimately a full range system that gave you control over a wide range of the freq band. As an HT speaker they were very passable, sounded better than 90% of the sound bars out there.
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Totally agree, I have still a Z-2300 set as my main speakers and I've been thinking about getting rid of them because the bass balance is far, far too high. I have to use it all the time with the base knob turned all the way down basically. Also the speakers are mounted quite high on a wall shelf above the main desk and they are very bad of direction.
 
Well, the left channel of my Dayton Audio DTA-120 amp died today, barely a month old! Any recommendations? I just contacted parts express, not sure if I should just get another or the same or a different amp. I liked it before it died, the size was nice. It is being used for my home theater 2.1 system with the Andrew jones pioneer bookshelf speakers and a 12" Dayton powered sub

Budget is $120 or less, I don't need any bells and whistles at all

Thanks for the help!
 
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Napoleon said:
Well, the left channel of my Dayton Audio DTA-120 amp died today, barely a month old! Any recommendations? I just contacted parts express, not sure if I should just get another or the same or a different amp. I liked it before it died, the size was nice. It is being used for my home theater 2.1 system with the Andrew jones pioneer bookshelf speakers and a 12" Dayton powered sub

Budget is $120 or less, I don't need any bells and whistles at all

Thanks for the help!
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Shameless plug, cough cough cough
https://hardforum.com/threads/fs-denon-avr-591-120w-5ch-audio-video-receiver-85-very-nice.1943063/

Not as tiny or cute as that Dayton, but if you have room for a full size amp, tada!
 
Napoleon said:
Well, the left channel of my Dayton Audio DTA-120 amp died today, barely a month old! Any recommendations? I just contacted parts express, not sure if I should just get another or the same or a different amp. I liked it before it died, the size was nice. It is being used for my home theater 2.1 system with the Andrew jones pioneer bookshelf speakers and a 12" Dayton powered sub

Budget is $120 or less, I don't need any bells and whistles at all

Thanks for the help!
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That must be covered by warranty.

I have three of those and have had absolutely zero problems this far.

I'd imagine they will send you a replacement.
 
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