[H]ardOCP Spec Bookshelf Speaker Setup

[Zarathustra[H]]

How are the PC13 Ultra's treating you? With the open layout it looks like you're fighting a shitload of area (same as me), trying to decide on building a Marty or splurging on an Captivator 1400

I've been very happy with them. I was definitely compensating for the large open area when I bought them (there is another opening to the left out of frame you can't see) but in retrospect I overcompensated a little bit.

They only have 13.5" drivers, but are tunable with 1000W RMS and three ports each. Per the manual, I ahve them set to 16hz mode, and thus have one port plugged on each, and they provide MORE than sufficient butt shaking during intense films from across the room. Audyssey turned them down quite a bit during the room correction algorithm, but I went in and turned them back up a bit as I thought it sounded better that way.

I'm still only using a tiny fraction of their capability, but I guess I have extra capacity if I ever move to a larger house

While the PC13 Ultra's were likely overkill for me, one thing I definitely recommend is dual subs for a HT setup. I moved my old single sub all over the room and could never find a place where it provided even bass across all seating positions. There was always one seating position with MUCH more bass than the others, and some where it was very underwhelming. Having one sub in each of the front corners of the room, and having them be independently adjustable solves this problem very nicely.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I used five 18" subs each 500 watts. Rear surrounds channel x 2 front channel x 2 and center x1. Nothing on the rear channels however.

Fills my 15x28 theater nicely.

Wow, I've never heard of anyone using that many subs.

What made you go this route? Particularly difficult room shape?

 

[rgMekanic]

I used five 18" subs each 500 watts. Rear surrounds channel x 2 front channel x 2 and center x1. Nothing on the rear channels however.

Fills my 15x28 theater nicely.

I have a similar problem as Zarathustra[H] , my living room doubles as my theatre, and it's open to the kitchen, gameroom, and a small hallway. If I had to guess total volume is around 8000cf, and I'm limited in placement.

Wife wants me to do an IB build in the attic with 4 18's, but I worry for my neighbors if I go that route, even though I have just over 2 acres lol

Edit:

I've been very happy with them. I was definitely compensating for the large open area when I bought them (there is another opening to the left out of frame you can't see) but in retrospect I overcompensated a little bit.

They only have 13.5" drivers, but are tunable with 1000W RMS and three ports each. Per the manual, I ahve them set to 16hz mode, and thus have one port plugged on each, and they provide MORE than sufficient butt shaking during intense films from across the room. Audyssey turned them down quite a bit during the room correction algorithm, but I went in and turned them back up a bit as I thought it sounded better that way.

I'm still only using a tiny fraction of their capability, but I guess I have extra capacity if I ever move to a larger house

While the PC13 Ultra's were likely overkill for me, one thing I definitely recommend is dual subs for a HT setup. I moved my old single sub all over the room and could never find a place where it provided even bass across all seating positions. There was always one seating position with MUCH more bass than the others, and some where it was very underwhelming. Having one sub in each of the front corners of the room, and having them be independently adjustable solves this problem very nicely.

Awesome, Audyssey always turns the sub down too low for my liking as well lol

 

[foe hammer]

How big is your room and why do you think 7.1 is necessary ?

Currently not very big, stationed over in Germany. I mean 5.1 would do the trick as well, but I am big on directional sound. Also I am running a display port monitor, I was kind of looking for a way to directly interface with a receiver just for audio and not having my display ran through the same cable, I am running a Rog swift ips 2560 x 1440 144 hrz screen. I am getting close to my ETS and will have a bigger place after this. I just like to future proof a bit.

 

[Deleted member 93354]

Wow, I've never heard of anyone using that many subs.

What made you go this route? Particularly difficult room shape?

Because I could?

Truth being told B&W Nautiluses are a little hard to drive. I have a 7x140WPC + 4x50WPC receiver. It started to peter out when I hit 110dB (150 WPC). To take the pressure off the amp, I took the largest load (bass) off the receivers. I compared the receiver calibrated flat output with just the speakers + 1 sub to the speakers + 5 subs. the 5 subs was much flatter over the area of the room using a waterfall graph. But I'm using Velodyne DD's to boot which lower bass distortion ~1%

 

[Deleted member 93354]

I have a similar problem as Zarathustra[H] , my living room doubles as my theatre, and it's open to the kitchen, gameroom, and a small hallway. If I had to guess total volume is around 8000cf, and I'm limited in placement.

Wife wants me to do an IB build in the attic with 4 18's, but I worry for my neighbors if I go that route, even though I have just over 2 acres lol

Those are always problematic setups.

Do you have sound treatments and traps on the side with a wall?

As to your attic, RSIC clips with 1/2" DW and 5/8" DW green glue between the drywalls should decouple most of your room. I also filled my stage with sand. But I'm in the basement. That's a lot of load for a roof.

I used to be a regular on AVS. Now that I have kids, I don't have the time to invest serious money into this stuff any more. I wish I did, but retirement first, then college for them second.

 

[oldmanbal]

Note: the optical cable is SUPER loose when plugged into the TV's output port, anyone else run into this issue?

Can't say I've ever run into that particular issue. . .

Anecdotally it's been said that older models tend to lose their secure fit over the years YMMV!

 

[Nenu]

Note: the optical cable is SUPER loose when plugged into the TV's output port, anyone else run into this issue?

Yes I have.
Some ports are a bit slack and do not fit the cable as snugly as they should.
Also some cables plug dimensions arent so good.
It could be either or both happening.

Its worth trying other optical cables, one might fit.
Thats what I did to solve the problem.

 

[Trimlock]

Currently not very big, stationed over in Germany. I mean 5.1 would do the trick as well, but I am big on directional sound. Also I am running a display port monitor, I was kind of looking for a way to directly interface with a receiver just for audio and not having my display ran through the same cable, I am running a Rog swift ips 2560 x 1440 144 hrz screen. I am getting close to my ETS and will have a bigger place after this. I just like to future proof a bit.

Having full surround is good, but not as important as making sure your LCR is up to your standards. I’d say wait before going full 7.1 now, see what your next room looks like before buying your equipment. One of the good things about small rooms is you can get away with some cheap, near field speakers.

 

[Trimlock]

How are the PC13 Ultra's treating you? With the open layout it looks like you're fighting a shitload of area (same as me), trying to decide on building a Marty or splurging on an Captivator 1400

Both are awesome builds, the Captivator is at such a good price that it almost doesn’t make sense to DIY.

 

[rpjkw12]

At some point over a year ago I switched completely to headphones.

I've done the same. What I especially like is that I can't hear my wife calling me.

 

[foe hammer]

Having full surround is good, but not as important as making sure your LCR is up to your standards. I’d say wait before going full 7.1 now, see what your next room looks like before buying your equipment. One of the good things about small rooms is you can get away with some cheap, near field speakers.

Even knowing that, what would be the ideal setup for interfacing with my computer with a receiver without the use of hdmi. I am just a total when it comes to stereo equipment. I just remember how awesome my klipsch 5.1 was and was super bummed when the amp died. I just want that feel back.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

How are the PC13 Ultra's treating you? With the open layout it looks like you're fighting a shitload of area (same as me), trying to decide on building a Marty or splurging on an Captivator 1400

Both are awesome builds, the Captivator is at such a good price that it almost doesn’t make sense to DIY.

I'm sure those Captivators sound great, but part of the reason I went with the PC13 Ultras was for the WAF, or FAF (Fiance Acceptance Factor) as it were. The great thing about the sonotube style of subwoofers is how easily it is to fit them in a corner of the room. A big honking rectangular Captivator is a lot less so. In a dedicated home theater room this is - of course - less of a problem.

For reference, here is my left one.

Of course, I have to move that table when watching any film with action scenes, or it rattles

Just my personal preference, but rather than splurging on one big sub, I'd consider getting two in order to even out the sound throughout the room.

 

[Deleted member 93354]

Even knowing that, what would be the ideal setup for interfacing with my computer with a receiver without the use of hdmi. I am just a total when it comes to stereo equipment. I just remember how awesome my klipsch 5.1 was and was super bummed when the amp died. I just want that feel back.

Barring HDMI, You have several choices. Optical TOSLINK will get you DTS, DD, and stereo PCM. For the majority of setups that will do. Coaxial has a slightly wider bandwidth, but it's getting harder and harder to find on amps. If you want to go for the no holds barred, you'll want an external soundcard with pre-outs to your receiver pre-ins. That way you can get uncompressed streams. You could go Bluetooth, but the quality varies greatly as to which sound formats they support. Some are better than others. I had a great one that was designed for headphones. But they stopped making it.

If you are on a low budget, you can pick up do it yourself amplifiers on Amzon. Look for DROK. Not the best quality stuff, but you get what you pay for. Then for prebuilt ones, you can go the Dayton Audio group, which is about as cheap as it gets.

 

[Deleted member 93354]

I'm sure those Captivators sound great, but part of the reason I went with the PC13 Ultras was for the WAF, or FAF (Fiance Acceptance Factor) as it were. The great thing about the sonotube style of subwoofers is how easily it is to fit them in a corner of the room. A big honking rectangular Captivator is a lot less so. In a dedicated home theater room this is - of course - less of a problem.

For reference, here is my left one.

View attachment 58973

Of course, I have to move that table when watching any film with action scenes, or it rattles

Just my personal preference, but rather than splurging on one big sub, I'd consider getting two in order to even out the sound throughout the room.

I so get you on that. I think JTR's really aren't aimed for prime fashion, more like reference level theater where they would be hidden.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Even knowing that, what would be the ideal setup for interfacing with my computer with a receiver without the use of hdmi. I am just a total when it comes to stereo equipment. I just remember how awesome my klipsch 5.1 was and was super bummed when the amp died. I just want that feel back.

You don't HAVE to have your monitor hooked up through your receiver even if you use HDMI for audio.

(In fact, for gaming purposes it's probably better not to due to the input lag receivers tend to introduce)

You can run a separate HDMI cable from your GPU to a receiver for audio only, and still run the DP cable straight from your GPU to your monitor.

The only downside to this option is that it will be a little more difficult (but usually not impossible) to run the setup without access to the detailed on screen menus.

(If you have a second screen or a DP adapter you could hook a screen up to the receiver for setup purposes and then disconnect it after)

Other than that DigitalGriffin did a good job of explaining your other options.

 

[Trimlock]

I'm sure those Captivators sound great, but part of the reason I went with the PC13 Ultras was for the WAF, or FAF (Fiance Acceptance Factor) as it were. The great thing about the sonotube style of subwoofers is how easily it is to fit them in a corner of the room. A big honking rectangular Captivator is a lot less so. In a dedicated home theater room this is - of course - less of a problem.

For reference, here is my left one.

View attachment 58973

Of course, I have to move that table when watching any film with action scenes, or it rattles

Just my personal preference, but rather than splurging on one big sub, I'd consider getting two in order to even out the sound throughout the room.

I don’t like SVS, you pay for looks and marketing. You do have a point with the dual subs but you could also get submersives which are sealed versions of the um18 from Seaton Sound. Not quite as price friendly but imo still amazing.

 

[Trimlock]

Even knowing that, what would be the ideal setup for interfacing with my computer with a receiver without the use of hdmi. I am just a total when it comes to stereo equipment. I just remember how awesome my klipsch 5.1 was and was super bummed when the amp died. I just want that feel back.

I’d still use HDMI to your receiver.

I’m fairly positive you can do video through DP and audio out through HDMI on your video card.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I don’t like SVS, you pay for looks and marketing. You do have a point with the dual subs but you could also get submersives which are sealed versions of the um18 from Seaton Sound. Not quite as price friendly but imo still amazing.

I don't feel like I overpaid for what I got.

Two 1000 watt RMS subs that go down to 16hz when properly tuned for $3,200. Between the great sound I get out of them and being the very convenient size I am very happy with them.

 

[HammerSandwich]

Both are awesome builds, the Captivator is at such a good price that it almost doesn’t make sense to DIY.

Always depends on the deals.

About 18 months ago, you could get 2x Stereo Integrity 18s for $320, 2x 4-cuft MDF flat packs at $180, and a Crown XLS-1502 at $200. All prices delivered. Add some fill & wire, and $800 got a pair of sealed 18s at 525w each.
Skip the flat packs, and $1500 bought 2x IB manifolds, each with an XLS & 2x 18s.

Both of those make sense to DIY. Wish I knew of such a good deal now.

Also, everyone should remember that the swarm sub approach only needs 1-2 big subs for the low end. Removing modes at 50+Hz works fine with 8" or 10" subs, so it's a doable project for $1500.

 

[Trimlock]

Always depends on the deals.

About 18 months ago, you could get 2x Stereo Integrity 18s for $320, 2x 4-cuft MDF flat packs at $180, and a Crown XLS-1502 at $200. All prices delivered. Add some fill & wire, and $800 got a pair of sealed 18s at 525w each.
Skip the flat packs, and $1500 bought 2x IB manifolds, each with an XLS & 2x 18s.

Both of those make sense to DIY. Wish I knew of such a good deal now.

Also, everyone should remember that the swarm sub approach only needs 1-2 big subs for the low end. Removing modes at 50+Hz works fine with 8" or 10" subs, so it's a doable project for $1500.

Those were good deals, sadly the Ht18 is discontinued. The JTR’s subs I think are from Fi Audio, the ones used there have better extension than the HT18’s and I think an IcePower amp? Pretty sick set up for the price, plus it’s pre-finished. I’d still only go DIY for subs, but I can’t hate on Seaton or JTR.

I did the same. Two 18’s for 40 and under and 2 12” pros for 40-150. I’ll be upgrading in a few years to horns and a “semi horn” design known as the SKHorn. More so for the lack of distortion and also for a challenge. I’ve only ever built smaller horns and I would like a challenge.

Plus headroom too, not so much for movies but for music.

 

[Deleted member 93354]

Also, everyone should remember that the swarm sub approach only needs 1-2 big subs for the low end. Removing modes at 50+Hz works fine with 8" or 10" subs, so it's a doable project for $1500.

There's benefits and trade offs to the swarm approach on subs. Nodes being one of them.

However with movies being highly directional and anything above 60 Hertz becoming directional, multiple subs is your best option to preserve directivity of movie tracks. I decoupled my entire room and added bass traps and sound traps for the primary seating positions. I also built a floating stage filled with sand. And that sits on rubber backed floating floor and then concrete. By walls are decoupled with 1/2 and 5/8 inch drywall with green glue between and rsic clips. The only protruding exterior walls are decoupled from the interior walls. So I have a good amount of mass damping and treatments in place to preserve directivity and reduce echos

That said if I was going the pure music route, I would go with a 2.2 for a large open room or 2.1 for smaller. In such cases I switch my amp to pure direct mode and bypass all the fancy processing effectively killing the additional subs.

If it's multi channel audio (such a very rare bird these days now that SACD, dvda, dts-a are pretty much dead) well there I might loose out due to multiple room nodes.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Barring HDMI, You have several choices. Optical TOSLINK will get you DTS, DD, and stereo PCM. For the majority of setups that will do. Coaxial has a slightly wider bandwidth, but it's getting harder and harder to find on amps. If you want to go for the no holds barred, you'll want an external soundcard with pre-outs to your receiver pre-ins. That way you can get uncompressed streams. You could go Bluetooth, but the quality varies greatly as to which sound formats they support. Some are better than others. I had a great one that was designed for headphones. But they stopped making it.

If you are on a low budget, you can pick up do it yourself amplifiers on Amzon. Look for DROK. Not the best quality stuff, but you get what you pay for. Then for prebuilt ones, you can go the Dayton Audio group, which is about as cheap as it gets.

Yamaha as for as long as I can remember provided at least 1 optical and coaxial audio inputs even on their most current stuff the higher up you go in their receiver line, the more you get.... the top of the line Advantage series has 3 of each...

 

[Deleted member 93354]

Yamaha as for as long as I can remember provided at least 1 optical and coaxial audio inputs even on their most current stuff the higher up you go in their receiver line, the more you get.... the top of the line Advantage series has 3 of each...

Yamaha is one of those rare holdouts. They still have phono inputs as well on the upper end stuff. I know as I have a Z11.

Yamaha's top of the line Advantage line is decent, but they cut corners on the power supply of lower models. If you want to know how well an amp is built, look at the weight/size of the primary transformer and the size of the primaries (caps). Weight is good. That means more winds/thicker copper which means more current which means more power available.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Yamaha as for as long as I can remember provided at least 1 optical and coaxial audio inputs even on their most current stuff the higher up you go in their receiver line, the more you get.... the top of the line Advantage series has 3 of each...

I had no idea there was a coaxial audio standard other than for radio antennas.

That being said, every Denon HT receiver I have used still has optical, analog RCA and HDMI inputs.

All that changes from.an input perspective as you go up the model range is that there are more of them.

My current AVR-X3300W has a positively dizzying array of connectors on the back...

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

^yeah RCA jacks sorry about that, old age setting in lol

 

[Deleted member 93354]

^yeah RCA jacks sorry about that, old age setting in lol

Well technically speaking RCA is just the connector format. The cable format is Coax like all RCA cables typically are.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Well technically speaking RCA is just the connector format. The cable format is Coax like all RCA cables typically are.

Fair enough. When anyone says coaxial I tend to think of something with an F-type or BNC connector only.

 

[Edgar]

So looks like amazon stopped selling He dta 120 at a decent price. Read a couple places that recommended this.

SMSL SA50 50Wx2 TDA7492 Class D Amplifier + Power Adapter (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F0H8TOC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_1I76AbY1BCKP6

Anyone have experience with it?

 

[Burticus]

So looks like amazon stopped selling He dta 120 at a decent price. Read a couple places that recommended this.

SMSL SA50 50Wx2 TDA7492 Class D Amplifier + Power Adapter (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F0H8TOC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_1I76AbY1BCKP6

Anyone have experience with it?

Looks neat but damn, you can buy a full size receiver for that much... although I do get that is not the point. Size matters and small costs $.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

So looks like amazon stopped selling He dta 120 at a decent price. Read a couple places that recommended this.

SMSL SA50 50Wx2 TDA7492 Class D Amplifier + Power Adapter (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F0H8TOC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_1I76AbY1BCKP6

Anyone have experience with it?

You can always get the DTA-120 on Parts Express.

(Dayton Audio is the Parts Express house brand)

I know nothing about that SMSL amp. Could be good, I have no experience with it at all though.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

You can always get the DTA-120 on Parts Express.

(Dayton Audio is the Parts Express house brand)

I know nothing about that SMSL amp. Could be good, I have no experience with it at all though.

Looks like Dayton discontinued the DTA-120 a while back.

I've been poking around for equivalent replacements.

The Topping PA3 seems like one hell of an amp for the price, with good (probably not golden-eared audiophile) quality, and a bit more power than the DTA-120.

It costs a tiny bit more than the DTA-120 used to, but that happens I guess. Still quite the amp for only $104 shipped. Comes in black and silver.

I havent tried it yet though, but when I buy my next non-audiophile amp, this will likely be it.

 

[atarione]

here is my setup..

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

View attachment 271985

here is my setup..

Wow. That's a lot of different speakers and amps.

Let me guess, you do some form of mastering, and need to hear what it sounds like on different equipment?

 

[TheToE!]

The topping stuff is really pretty good and offer a lot for the money. I bout an integrated and use it in a bedroom.

 

[Edgar]

Seems like the left channel is going on my dta-120. Get crackling only on the left speaker. And with headphones the sound goes out only on the left side. Gotta turn and plug just right to get the sound to come back.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Seems like the left channel is going on my dta-120. Get crackling only on the left speaker. And with headphones the sound goes out only on the left side. Gotta turn and plug just right to get the sound to come back.

Try two things

1.). Blow compressed air in around the volume dial. Pots like these sometimes get dust in them.

2.) Sometimes corrosion builds up on the pots. Turn the amp off, and turn the dial back and forth from 0 to max volume repeatedly. This can wear away the corrosion and get rid of any crackle.

No guarantee it will work, but it might.

 

[d3athf1sh]

Try two things

1.). Blow compressed air in around the volume dial. Pots like these sometimes get dust in them.

2.) Sometimes corrosion builds up on the pots. Turn the amp off, and turn the dial back and forth from 0 to max volume repeatedly. This can wear away the corrosion and get rid of any crackle.

No guarantee it will work, but it might.

deoxit. nuff said.

 

[termite]

The problem with blowing Deoxit or any other contact cleaner into a volume pot is that it can rinse out the dampening grease. The contacts will get clean, but after the volume will just turn like some cheap knob and not have that smooth heavy feel you find in quaility pots.

This will depend on the pot used of course.

Edgar I'd recommend doing as Zarathustra[H] advised, going though several rotations (even several times, over a couple of days) should help in most cases, as the volume knobs full range generally does not get used and builds up normal corrosion.

Use a chemical wash on the pots only as a last resort.

However, detox sprayed on a cotton swab and wiped on the headphone plug contacts can get rid of issues where there is crud/corrosion built up, that is causing static/audio loss when the plug is rotated.

Wipe the contacts and let sit, then wipe of with a few clean cotton swabs, clean the plugs as well. This is only useful on a 1/4"-6.35mm headphone Jack.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The problem with blowing Deoxit or any other contact cleaner into a volume pot is that it can rinse out the dampening grease. The contacts will get clean, but after the volume will just turn like some cheap knob and not have that smooth heavy feel you find in quaility pots.

This will depend on the pot used of course.

Edgar I'd recommend doing as Zarathustra[H] advised, going though several rotations (even several times, over a couple of days) should help in most cases, as the volume knobs full range generally does not get used and builds up normal corrosion.

Use a chemical wash on the pots only as a last resort.

However, detox sprayed on a cotton swab and wiped on the headphone plug contacts can get rid of issues where there is crud/corrosion built up, that is causing static/audio loss when the plug is rotated.

Wipe the contacts and let sit, then wipe of with a few clean cotton swabs, clean the plugs as well. This is only useful on a 1/4"-6.35mm headphone Jack.

Totally with you on this.

Though to be fair, the DTA-120 was no audophile collectible to begin with, so the loss of premium feel in the volume knob may not be the end of the world.

Though I'd definitely try air and mechanical manipulation before spraying any chemicals in there.