Dell U2412M

Discussion in 'Displays' started by brod, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,385
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    I had bought a VGA splitter two years ago and I had never broken it out of its cheap plastic bag.

    I had also bought that Prad program SMTT a while back but never broke it out of its (you guessed it) cheap plastic bag.

    So I finally got this going in this configuration GTX 480 ---------> DVI to VGA adapter ----------> VGA Splitter ----------> Connector 1 to CRT VGA 1, Connector 2 to LCD VGA (U2412M, then NEC LCD2490WUXi2-BK)

    So I finally got to use them. Below are the shots and hopefully an explanation following.

    I'm only including three shots and I'll explain why after. Two are inverted to make the "dark numbers" easier to see:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Tests were run at 1920x1200@60hz.

    P1210 CRT on the left vs. the U2412M on the right shows very little, maybe 8ms of input lag.

    These shots are completely representative of every shot I got.

    I took over 200 shots in total. Some at 1/60, some at 1/125 and 1/200 exposure rates. This pattern never seemed to vary. Always two numbers on the U2412M were the same as the CRT numbers, whether top or bottom. Even the ones that weren't the same, you can see the beginning of the numbers appearing that will match the CRT. If you look at the last, non-inverted pic, the CRT is showing 68.830 bottom, 68.836 top, and the U2412M is showing 68.819 > a slight image of 68.82x and a third image coming in of 68.836. I would say it's half a frame of lag, but really no, or a couple of ms of lag + response time "delay".

    So I think you can say this is probably a pretty good gamer's screen, because lag (lag+response time) appears to be 1 frame or less.

    By the way, I tried higher refresh rates over VGA. They worked fine on the CRT, but no-go on the U2412M, so I doubt it's going to support them regardless of interface. Checking specs on the panel (which someone also stipulated earlier in this thread) it is limited to 60hz max.

    P.S. to ensure this process was accurate I connected my NEC LCD2490WUXi2-BK which is pretty much known to have somewhere between 1-2 frames of input lag. On this same exact test from video card > VGA splitter > dual screens, the NEC was always 1 - 2 frames behind the CRT, and none of the four numbers on both displays were in sync, unlike the U2412M versus CRT comparison.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  2. Walker

    Walker Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    355
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Nice. So contrast is fine, responsiveness is good and so is panel uniformity? There is no real visible color deviation across the screen? I was hoping for a 1920x1200 version of the U2311H and so far it sounds like the U2412M is even better than that.
     
  3. inputlagplz

    inputlagplz n00b

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
  4. senna89

    senna89 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    393
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    have u U2412M now ?
     
  5. Linglan

    Linglan n00b

    Messages:
    32
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    tyvm, that is dedication!!!
     
  6. icecpu

    icecpu Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    326
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Is this monitor going to have any discount coupon or on sales soon ? I do want it but should I wait for sales or dell coupon. I'm not rich that's why I want to get the best price out of it.
     
  7. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    73
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
  8. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    174
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    That's essentially possible now. You can tell Windows to use an ICM file which describes the gamut of the monitor to it. But what's happened is Microsoft, rather than allow it to be enabled by default for all desktop content, lets each application handle support themselves. So the ICM file doesn't do any good unless the app supports colour management. Microsoft's default image viewer does have colour management support and, in the presence of an ICM file, will correctly render any untagged content as sRGB, and everything else as whatever it's tagged as. But I don't think they include anything else on Windows 7 that has support.

    Thanks to that way of doing it you have to rely on 3rd parties to add support. So, of course, apps like Photoshop do, and even some browsers like Firefox. But generally it's ignored. This way of doing it also adds a lot to the complexity since you usually have to set up each app individually rather than have them honour a single Windows global setting wwhich doesn't require apps to code anything. Microsoft also don't include support on the DirectX side of things, meaning games must also implement it themselves. For the same reason movie viewers must also include their own dedicated support too.

    True. But, if you ship a wide gamut screen with a good sRGB mode enabled as the default then, until such time as colour management support is better, there is little (if any) harm done. The main point is, unless you have lots of people out there with the hardware, then unfortunately things are unlikely to ever move on..
     
  9. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    174
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Nobody is saying a wide gamut screen shouldn't support sRGB well! A good sRGB mode implementation essentially makes this a non-issue anyway. Instead you seem to ignore the bigger point, which is that we should strive to move on from sRGB because our eyes can see a much wider range of colours.

    Arguing against the fact that moving away from a wide gamut is moving away from what your eyes can actually see makes your opinion appear more like something akin to a religious view on the topic. The goal of technology should always be to improve on what we have now, until such time as we can't tell a difference between looking at a TV and looking out of a window.
     
  10. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,003
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    But it essentially only works for a few applications that are color managed and if enable this, then your sRGB emulation will actually mess these apps up, or you will have to change profiles every time you switch modes making Wide Gamut even more of a PITA.

    Seriously, this is like watching a car salesman try to sell undercoating and paint protection. As I mentioned on the previous page there is much harm done by just using a wide gamut monitor as an sRGB screen through emulation. You even agreed with Price (it costs more), Loss of contrast in emulation, and lack of control flexibility in emulation mode. Not to mention the PITA factor if you are actually going to use profiles and switch modes and switch profiles to go with it.

    If you want sRGB, get an sRGB monitor, it will cheaper, likely have higher contrast, and more color control flexibility and much less hassle.


    You are ignoring the more important point. Everything is sRGB. sRGB is the standard. It wouldn't matter if Esperanto is technically has a better spec sheet as a language, we are all going to keep speaking native tongue, because it is the standard of our community. And your usual defense of the "emulation" has already been covered above as problematic in several ways.

    I am not in a thread for a wide gamut monitor proselytizing sRGB, you are in standard gamut monitor thread preaching wide gamut.

    Also there was nothing religious involved in my crystal clear statetement that for displaying actual content (that is sRGB) wide gamut does move further away from what our eyes see, not towards it, so it was a step in the wrong direction to foist these on the average consumer, and that bad marketing move is being reversed. Wide gamut zealots like yourself can still pay more money a wide gamut monitor to play neon games and spend time trying to find applications that will actually get back to normal colors so you can exit emulation mode.

    Color Space is not what is holding that back. You make a much bigger deal out of the supposed benefits of wide gamut than actually exist. I can take a picture out the window, and put it up on my monitor and I can't really find colors missing/altered. The shades beyond sRGB are rare in nature. We don't miss them at all. I will be happy with sRGB color for the rest of my days if that is what we keep as a standard.

    We really should let this die as it really has nothing to do with the 2412, except that it isn't wide gamut. If that makes you sad, don't buy one. Just like I won't bother with a 2410 or any other wide gamut screen.
     
  11. danbanger

    danbanger Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    I'm sold! Thanks 10e!!
     
  12. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    174
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    It originally started in the context of what's changed from the U2410, and I'm preaching nothing other than that I'd rather technology moved in the direction of displaying the "reality" of what our eyes can actually see to the best of its ability. Gamut is only a small part involved in achieving that. I also regard the move to 6 bit panels, which emulate 8 bit, as a technological step backwards from native 8 bit panels too.

    Most things are, and I certainly didn't ignore it! :rolleyes: The fact that you respond with such statements means it's long since time to move on, plus it is dragging the thread off topic anyway. Replying to you on this topic is indeed like debating with a religious zealot. You only see what you want to see in text, and it appears to bear little relation to what's actually said. Thus replying to you on this topic, and probably most others, is utterly futile.. :)
     
  13. PC-HAngover

    PC-HAngover [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,007
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Man this is looking like a real winner. So since I have a 2407fpw now from 2006. What do you guys think would a triple setup look like with 2 of the u2412m and my old reliable? I really want a triple setup but I can't afford to outright buy 3 of these so I almost have to stick with my old one as well.

    I also agree with the above poster. What's the typical coupon cycle like with Dell displays? I know their systems have coupons and discounts available all the time but display coupons are a little bit more rare. Thanks again 10e, you are indeed the monitor guru and you have my vote for a title change!
     
  14. Bangorang

    Bangorang Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    496
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    2 questions...heat and ag coating

    dell is notorious for harsh ag coating..did they tone it down for this model?

    also, i could swear someone said they had a 27 dell and it kicked out too much heat...any problems with this?

    thank you to the owners for their opinions on these 2 subjects
     
  15. mdk30

    mdk30 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,029
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Thanks for taking the time to perform this test! Looks very good indeed for a 1900x1200 gaming monitor. I guess I'm still not sure if this is any/significantly better or worse than the HP ZR24W for EyeFinity gaming purposes for the money at this point. If anyone has any firsthand comparisons of the two I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion.
     
  16. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,058
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    27" U2711 uses dual CCFL backlights. 60-100W heat output.
    U2412M uses LED (array? RGB? Edgelit?) backlight. Max ~60W heat output.
    [edit] U2311h uses single? CCFL backlight, 30W heat output, normally. However, it's eIPS, which is much less opaque (so it can use cheaper/lesspowerful/lower energy backlights vs traditional H-IPS/S-IPS panels).

    Uses same 3H coating that most other LG IPS panels in Dell monitors have.
     
  17. orpheusnz

    orpheusnz n00b

    Messages:
    28
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    thanks 10e for your testing and time on this. It looks like a lot of us have been looking for a decent 1920x1200 gaming monitor, and the 2412 seems to be it!

    orph.
     
  18. william_fontaine

    william_fontaine Gawd

    Messages:
    737
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Might have to retire the Soyo Topaz and pick one of these up...
     
  19. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,385
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    As long as it's not the 2407WFP-HC it should be a good match. The HC was a wide gamut version and colors will always be different. The regular version was a regular sRGB screen so you should be good.

    I know that right after the 2209WA was released back in January of 2009, Dell had some sales reps which gave nice discounts if you talked to them through phone or on-line chat. Might be worth a shot again, as the 2209WA was also a business monitor.

    Outside of what appears to be better contrast ratio or black levels on the U2412M (going from ZR24W reviews), there shouldn't be much, if any difference after the ZR24W's backlight warms up. The U2412M is basically full brightness right away whereas most CCFL screens take warm up time to reach both full brightness and stable color temperature.

    In fact there seems to be similar behavior with gamma and raising contrast on both screens so if someone wanted to match the two on an EyeFinity, it might be easier than expected. From what I've read, ZR24W gives best contrast with the contrast up near 90, whereas on the Dell it's at 75. At this level both are a gamma of around 2.0. The ZR24W is also a low lag screen so input lag differences wouldn't be noticed at all whatsoever.

    Little if any heat. The top middle of the back reaches slightly above my hand's temperature at 50% - 60% of the backlight. The panel is always cool.

    AG coating is pretty good IMHO. It's LG who's the problem in terms of the U2711, because the NEC PA271W is similar. This monitor is heads and shoulders above the U2711 in terms of AG. It's also better than my 3008WFP which isn't too bad either.

    It's not as smooth as the VA panels from Samsung or AUO, but it's one of the better recent IPS panels I've seen.

    Dell TN and older *VA models didn't have rough/sparkly/noisy/grainy AG.
     
  20. senna89

    senna89 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    393
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    yes but compare to coating of U2311H or similar ?
     
  21. tk-don

    tk-don Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    324
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    U2711H: 8x U-type CCFL (direct backlit)
    U2412M: 4x strings of white LEDs, edgelit.
    U2311H: 4xCCFL (edgelit, 2 bottom, 2 top)

    :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  22. John2000

    John2000 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    90
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    10e: When looking straight on at the monitor from approximately 2 feet distance, is there any "IPS glow" visible when a black image is displayed (in a darkly lit room)? On the HP ZR24w I had and returned, there was "IPS glow" (not backlight bleed) in the corners under those conditions which was very annoying, so that's why I wonder.

    Thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  23. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,385
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    There is some, especially if your head/eye level is near the top. It is less if your head is centred on the screen. You may want to wait for the Samsung PLS monitor to see if it does better. If the damn thing ever comes out :)

    The U2412M has the ability to lower the backlight more than the ZR24W which may help this issue, but I don't want to mislead you into thinking it doesn't have any, because it does.

    My photos of it are here: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037563158&postcount=207

    The shot I took is with the camera almost exactly 24" from the screen. Had the camera been higher it would have crept in on the bottom corners.

    I never had an EA231WMI or U2311H, but ToastyX said the EA231WMi (and I'll assume U2311H) had the same coating as the Dell 2209WA.

    I had a 2209WA and this coating seems lighter and finer. But, without them side-by-side this is only an estimation. I am not bothered by it. The U2711 coating bothers me very much.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  24. waja2000

    waja2000 n00b

    Messages:
    1
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    10e and U2412M owner.

    is U2412m support PIP (picture in picture)? i link to TVBOX for watching broadcasting TV channel.
    i used lcd in online, watch Full HD movie, Picture and Video editing,i'm dslr user. and no gaming for me, is U2412M suite to me? went watch 1080 movie will see ghosting or jitters ?
    my place (malaysia) sell U2412M at usd 300.
    i used Dell 1907FP now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  25. zod96

    zod96 Suspected BAD TRADER

    Messages:
    2,709
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    So the bottom line is the U2412 is a good monitor just not as good as the U2410? But for the price its one of the best 24 inch monitors around...
     
  26. Walker

    Walker Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    355
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Actually, going by 10e's impressions, the U2412 seems to be quite a bit better choice than the U2410 for the majority of the people.
     
  27. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,100
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    10e,

    Well done. Thank you for doing this.

    Ken
     
  28. John2000

    John2000 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    90
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Thanks! The Samsung S24A850DW seems to have an Estimated Time of Arrival around the end of August in most web shops. Since it's uses the new PLS panel technology the "IPS glow" may be less visible (but it will probably still be present since the technology is similar to IPS). I'll probably check it out before I decide which monitor to get.
     
  29. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,385
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    There's no P.I.P.

    For gaming, computer-based work and movies from a PC I'd take the U2412M due to the low input lag and better black levels/contrast.

    For console use and wide gamut work, the U2410 is better because it supports 16:9 aspect ratio and aRGB.

    I'll see if I can post some more realistic and less acute angle photos of the U2412M to give you an idea. Like I said before I haven't seen the HP ZR24W, so comparisons are difficult. Today is a civic holiday up here in the Great White North so I can't go to a store to see one, nor the Asus PA246Q which is the same as the U2410.
     
  30. Bradlc

    Bradlc n00b

    Messages:
    1
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Thanks for all the info 10e.

    Please could you clarify something for me: Have you tried using the U2412M with a 360 or PS3 (with a HDMI to DVI cable)? Can you definitely not make it display at the native 16:9 aspect ratio (i.e. with black bars)?
     
  31. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,385
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Nope haven't tried it yet.

    Xbox has a 16:10 output mode so it should work, but I'll have to try it.

    PS3 likely will work, but stretched vertically to 16:10.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  32. Rockferd

    Rockferd Feelz

    Messages:
    427
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    What do you mean by it doesn't support 16:9, exactly? I may have missed it, but what the possible options for scaling then?

    Again, sorry if this is redundant.
     
  33. LOLANG

    LOLANG Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    147
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    Very tempted to order. I got a quote from Dell for $319.20 for the U2412M...
     
  34. PC-HAngover

    PC-HAngover [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,007
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    How did you do this if I may ask?
     
  35. LOLANG

    LOLANG Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    147
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    I contacted Dell Small Business. She told me the retail side doesn't offer the discounts on the monitor.
     
  36. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    73
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    I have a few dell business contacts via work, did you ask for a discount or just pricing ?
     
  37. Athanas

    Athanas n00b

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Ordered mine from Dell yesterday. Status is in production.

    I ordered 2 day shipping and now it says it wont be here till Monday!
     
  38. LOLANG

    LOLANG Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    147
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    I contacted our business rep and mentioned the monitor and she applied a discount without asking. I can ask her if she can apply the discount for any other person and get her info to people if she agrees.
     
  39. flwolf

    flwolf Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    403
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Ordered mine a week ago with 2 day shipping. They say it won't be here until Thursday. It's still in production.
     
  40. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    73
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    My account rep seemed to want a specific business contact from our client list. Not sure hes gonna make an exception for something I dont want to bill to my companies account.