Dell U2412M

Discussion in 'Displays' started by brod, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    Never quoted myself before :eek:

    Tried the 360 with an HDMI to DVI cable. 1920x1080 (1080P) was, as feared, stretched to 16:10 ratio but the 1680x1050 setting worked perfectly, and looked just fine.

    Only RGB color is supported. The two other YcBCr were not and colors were wrong FYI. <----Wrong :eek:

    EDIT: I took another look and the OSD allows adjustments to the color input to use YPbPr so you can use these settings as well. <---- Correct :)


    5:4,4:3 and 16:10 "full" are the only settings supported. All other settings have to be handled by the video card on a PC. With a console only the 360 works properly for aspect ratio because it puts out 1680x1050 and adds black bars top and bottom.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  2. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    Not regularly but I do own both titles. If there is something you'd like to see, I could load it up for ya.

    The last sRGB gamut 30" was the Samsung 305T (not the 305t+). There was also that XHD3000 from Gateway which had a lot of issues in terms of reliability and longevity, though I think it was based on the same 30" as the 305T.

    Too bad they stopped producing these S-PVA panels, and I have a strong feeling that, IF they produce PLS panels for 30" they will be wide gamut. Too bad.

    Many people here are crapping on the U2412M and U2410 so your synopsis is refreshing, as it's simply stating facts and target market.

    At the end of the day, they are two products separated by price and target market, and each has strengths and weaknesses. I don't feel the need to defend the U2412M nor disparage the U2410, and I would appreciate if everyone can base their opinions on fact.

    If I were to do a high-level comparo I'd say the following:

    U2412M Advantages:

    1) Contrast ratio, black level better than the 1000:1 spec'd amount
    2) Almost perfect sRGB gamut coverage (for those who prefer it)
    3) Low input lag and competitive response time. The lag is great, the response time is fine, though not class leading. Playing games has been great from my experience
    4) LED backlight is instantly full (or nearly full) brightness from first power on
    5) Very wide LED backlight adjustability. A 300 cdm/2 swing from darkest to brightest is not something regularly found. Most monitors struggle to do nearly 200 cdm/2 changes
    6) Subjectively based on what I'm seeing with this ONE unit > exceptional color and brightness uniformity
    7) White point can be adjusted from custom color menu/screen (typical of sRGB screens) unlike the U2711 and U2410 when they are in sRGB mode

    I'll test point 6 with my colorimeter and BasicColor and report, but it's looking quite good.


    U2410 Advantages:

    1) WCG for those that want it
    2) More card reader slots (the U2412M has none)
    3) More aspect ratio control and better non-PC video support
    4) A usable sRGB mode
    5) Input lag can go low in game mode, though based on what PatK says you can go to game mode, then sRGB (without confirming) and have the advantage of reduced input lag with more accurate sRGB colors
    6) 8-bit + FRC (10-bit) panel with better color look-up table (12-bit) though this is really required IMHO for a wide gamut screen

    Either way you slice it, both are competent screens and neither is a bad purchase IMHO. I can't comment on the anti-glare because I am fine with the U2412M anti-glare and I need to see a U2410 or Asus PA246Q to try and eyeball the difference because I'm not buying any more monitors for a while. :D

    Sorry for the slight rant, but I don't want this thread to turn into a thread akin to nVidia versus ATI fanboyism and angry attacks (and then of course people being banned).
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  3. bencho

    bencho 2[H]4U

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    for FPS, Just worried about ghosting but your other post showed that there really is not much to worry about.

    Biggest concern for me is SC2. I play at high sensitivity and I experienced what input lag can do when I tried playing on my lcd tv. I game on my Samsung 245bw, which is a TN panel and that's the standard I set for "normal" sensitivity. When I played on my LN46C630, with game mode off, it was pretty bad. I turned on game mode and it became significantly better. However, there was still enough delay to throw me off a bit. Not sure of the input lag numbers for the LN46C630, but if this u2412m is even the slightest big better, I'll trade in my 245bw's!
     
  4. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    From what I've seen and measured in my earlier post here http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1615513&page=17 input lag is extremely low on this screen.

    This was using the VGA interface so the DVI/DisplayPort interfaces should be equal or better because no analog to digital conversion is occurring like with VGA.

    It is definitely much better than any HDTV, even those with game mode, and should be comparable to the 245BW, which, if memory serves me correctly had almost zero input lag.
     
  5. PC-HAngover

    PC-HAngover [H]ard|Gawd

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    Do you happen to have any "gaming" TN screens to compare to? Like a 120hz model or something similar? It just got me thinking because I was playing the BF3 alpha on my 2407fpw the other day and it was tearing like a mother and I'm not sure why. I'm actually considering getting a nice 120hz screen like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014241
    And keeping my 2407fpw for work/browsing. I may be reaching but I'm trying to figure out the best solution to blend gaming with work (programming, browsing)... so hard!

    Again, 10e... thank you so much for all your work.
     
  6. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

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    I wouldn't even bother comparing your samsung hdtv to this in terms of gaming performance. I know exactly what you are referring to and that amount of input lag will not be present with this panel.
     
  7. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    I have the Acer GD235HZ which is reputed to be the fastest responding 120hz panel out there.

    In 120hz mode there is very little, if any, tearing on these simply because even the highest end video card configs have difficulty maintaining or exceeding this speed. Tearing will usually happen when the video card(s) are spitting out too many frames and exceed 60fps on regular, non-3D 60hz screens. So you have too many frames/second coming out and the monitor throws out half a frame and then another half frame that ends up tearing.

    If that's what you seek, the XL2410T should be a good screen as well, based on reviews.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  8. icecpu

    icecpu Limp Gawd

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    I just chat with the rep and I got no discount

    EDIT: ordered, got $ 25 discount through a chat rep
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  9. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    Went to the local computer bar because they have the HP ZR24W and Asus PA246Q, and I can report that the anti-glare on the U2412M is quite close in quality and quantity to the Asus.

    So for those who have seen it, you have a reference now if that was a concern.
     
  10. mdk30

    mdk30 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I know you couldn't do a side-by-side just by visiting the store, but would you feel comfortable saying you have a preference one way or the other now that you've seen the ZR24W vs U2412M? Sorry to keep hounding you for more and more on these two but I'm just really hoping to not feel like I should've gone with something else after sinking $1200-$1500 in monitors alone for a 3x1 EyeFinity system.
     
  11. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    I would probably say I have no preference. Both are fine to me, neither showing much of a crystalline or noisy haze over the picture. Unfortunately they only had the Asus on display. I hear the ZR24W is very similar.

    In addition the PA246Q was showing some crappy video so I had to get into the OSD to actually see the whites heh. The guy thought I was on crack. I am, but that's my business :D

    To be honest, I'd say stick with your ZR24Ws. I honestly don't think it's going to be giving you a better gaming experience than your HP monitors. The only real advantage is going to be associated with the slightly better blacks, and LED backlight that puts out very little heat and reaches full brightness in a minute or two. And even the better blacks are somewhat cancelled out in EyeFinity based on the fact that you have two screens on an angle, so you will get white glow regardless.

    Otherwise what you have is great.

    Also consider this, you have three already that you are happy with. Changing them out means potential frustration in terms of new screens with potentially dead/stuck pixels or sub-pixels, uniformity, etc..... Save the frustration.
     
  12. mdk30

    mdk30 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sorry for the confusion, but I don't have 3 of anything yet. I was just pretty sure that I was going to go with 3 ZR24Ws when I build a new system here pretty soon. Now I'm thinking that 3 U2412Ms might be the slightly better way to go based on your posts in this thread. So thanks. :)
     
  13. Athanas

    Athanas n00b

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    10e I want to say thanks again, cause you freaking rock! :D

    Is there anyway you can post, in your opinion, the optimum settings for this monitor? Maybe one for color quality and another for strictly gaming?
     
  14. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    I remember you asking before, so I wasn't sure.

    Unless there was a specific reason to get the HP, I think I would still stick with the U2412M, especially if it's cheaper. Less power use, less heat. This would be a big deal with 3 monitors in Trifinity.

    I'm planning on this next. First will be settings that give the best color quality without a profile and second with a color profile to be made available for download.

    Keep in mind though, my settings would only be representative of my particular panel so if you see that it isn't optimum, change them as you see fit.
     
  15. mdk30

    mdk30 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Very true... my "man cave" is actually a loft on the 2nd story so it's naturally at least 15 degrees warmer than the rest of the house already. Unless something else comes out in the next month or two that's significantly better, looks like I'll be going with the U2412M for TriFinity. :)

    Looking forward to seeing your recommended settings at some point too.
     
  16. bencho

    bencho 2[H]4U

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    thanks 10e

    Looks like I'll be moving to these once the price comes down a little bit.
     
  17. cold solder

    cold solder [H]Lite

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    When the U2412M was announced I was thrilled because I had all but given up hope that any new 16:10 monitors fitting my price-performance criteria would ever be released by anybody. I was afraid that 16:10 was on its way to extinction.

    10e, I want to join those thanking you for your evaluation of the 2412. I will definitely be purchasing one of these as soon as the price comes down a bit. At USD 350 I would buy one today :)
     
  18. Hurin

    Hurin 2[H]4U

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    Very much looking forward to seeing your calibrated settings. I realize that they may not work optimally on my screen, but it might be a good starting point.

    I just unpacked and set up my U2412M. So far I really like it but I'm a die-hard CRT-lover (with two Sony FW900 widescreen CRTs, one on my desk and one in storage). The IPS glow and overall brighter black than CRT gives me some pause. But my eyes aren't as young as they used to be. So the bigger picture (by about 1.5" I think thanks to the bezel of the CRT and the necessary squeezing of the raster to achieve real 16:10) and sharper text will probably win me over, I think.

    Incidentally, I don't want to hijack the thread, but can you recommend a "good enough" consumer-level calibration colorometer? I tried the Spyder 3 once but returned it. Is there anything better at a similar price point?

    Thanks for everything 10e! Your participation in this thread has been of tremendous value!

    Hurin
     
  19. senna89

    senna89 Limp Gawd

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    the coating of u2410 is not the same to u2711 ? ;)
     
  20. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    Everyone is happy with the I1D2 (Eye One Display 2). The bundled software is not amazing, but the calibrator does a great job, especially on sRGB screens.

    And you can always get a 14-day fully-functional trial license of Basic Color, which is one of my favorites as well.

    The I1D3 (Eye One Display 3) is out but it is far more expensive at this time at around $249.99. A quick check on Amazon shows the I1D2 for around $120.00.

    Not even close! The U2412M's coating is much better.
     
  21. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There was another recent test of calibration devices.

    The off the shelf i1d2s did not fair very well for consistency (worse in test).
    The Spyder 3 Elite was better (not express - uncertain this is same device).
    The OEM i1d2 were better than the S3 in terms of consistency as they are actually calibrated by OEMs (like NEC) for the specific screen they ship with.

    http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/MonitorCalibrationHardware.html

    Calibration devices are still a bit of mess. Hopefully i1d3 is a standout and gets more widespread software support.

    Getting a full NEC SV monitor means I have great calibration device for my monitor and likely other standard gamut CCFLs, Note in the test, the OEM i1d2 scored the best in the test on wide gamut, better than even the Spectrophotometers.

    But I I don't know what to recommend off the shelf, maybe the latest model Spyder3 Pro/Elite (not express) or wait for i1d3.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  22. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

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  23. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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  24. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

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    Think it is worth getting? I have a full array led backlit HDTV with a PC HDMI source atm, and also planning on getting a pair of these dell monitors in the near future. I hear the software is pretty meh tho, similar to the older model puck.
     
  25. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The software sounds like it has improved, at least over the i1d2 LT software I tried.
    http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/profiling/i1_display_pro.html

    Actually it seems quite decent which is good, because there are signs that this device may be locked to only work with XRite software. :(
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/14909072-post38.html

    There is also a less expensive color munki display that seems to be using a variant of the same colorimeter and is producing similar results:
    http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/profiling/colormunki_display.html
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832347088

    Also nice that this one has a tripod mount and that projector profiling is built into the software.
     
  26. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

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    The OEM version with 3rd party software like chromapure is so expensive. I wonder what the differences really end up being on LED displays like this when using a newer LED compatible colorimeter vs a standard colorimeter that was meant for use with ccfl backlighting.
     
  27. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    Thanks for that Snowdog. This explains why the Lacie Sensor I have, which is also an I1D2 is sitting in my filing cabinet. I'll break out to see how off it is. I remember getting pink whites from it. I'd think it would be OEM, but possibly it isn't.

    I'd probably agree that a 2009 or later manufactured Spyder3 should be decent judging from the Dry Creek Photo review.

    One thing that stood out to me was using the I1D2 with Argyll CMS. That also might be an option. I'll look at that too.
     
  28. Battou62

    Battou62 Limp Gawd

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    Nobody has mentioned the Huey Pro. The Huey can be had for ~$55 and has favorable reviews at TFT Central. It should be good for anyone who doesn't need professional calibration for their job.
     
  29. mdk30

    mdk30 [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is going to sound extremely ignorant (because I am), but what is even $55 going to buy me as a gamer? Say I'm trying to set up an EyeFinity system with matching monitors... am I not going to be able to get "good enough" color matching by just calibrating the monitors based on my own eyes and possibly a free software package alone? Sure I'd like my monitors to look as good as they can, but if I'm just gaming and don't care about color uniformity for more than just getting the colors across three screens to not look jarringly different, do I really even need to have a colorimeter? What would it buy me?
     
  30. Daemos

    Daemos Limp Gawd

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    "good enough" is dependant on the person. to some, nothing short of a proper calibrated monitor is "good enough" some people think as long as a monitor turns on and shows color is "good enough"
     
  31. LOLANG

    LOLANG Limp Gawd

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    Hey everyone. I have a contact at Dell who quoted me $319.20 for the U2412M. She told me she could in fact work with people who are not affiliated with my company! If you would like her contact PM me.
     
  32. mdk30

    mdk30 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sure... I'm not a pro graphic designer or anything, but my "good enough" is definitely higher than "the monitor turns on and shows color." I'm just unsure what any amount of money that I could spend on a colorimeter would actually buy me, especially if I'm going with the same model of monitor.
     
  33. sonic_blue

    sonic_blue [H]Lite

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    Is there any point in waiting for the Samsung PLS? Is Dell going to release a 27" LED?
     
  34. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Likely. LG and Dell announced a partnership a bit back. If the new 27" has much lower power consumption, I'd love it :)
     
  35. sonic_blue

    sonic_blue [H]Lite

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    Well I couldn't wait any longer and pulled the trigger on the U2412 :)
     
  36. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

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    Like most things in this world, the more you spend the better the product, up to a point at least.

    55 dollars to match your displays and find close to ideal settings for viewing its as cheap as your going to find it. Most colorimeters are closer to $150-250, those with custom software are more like $350-650, and that is just for entry level hardware. Higher end sensors can cost thousands.
     
  37. physwm2501

    physwm2501 n00b

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    I just got my friend a u2311h a few months back and if it is supposed to be better then that I think I may need to get one.
     
  38. senna89

    senna89 Limp Gawd

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    10e, what are the monitors that have u had or have u can seen for some compares whit this U2412m ?
     
  39. Ephesos

    Ephesos n00b

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    Can you observe any dithering or color banding ? What about gradients ?
     
  40. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    I've either owned or had in my possession probably close to 20 monitors in the past 40 months or so from Dell, NEC, Westinghouse, BenQ, Hyundai, and LG. All panel types from IPS, TN, A-MVA, S-PVA

    I also used my trusty old 37LB5D TV as a monitor for some time in 2007. Shame about the input lag.

    Not that I can tell.

    Even those Lagom.nl "pixel walk" tests flicker very little. I figured this cherry picked test would cause the screen to flicker heavily in some modes, but whatever flicker there was is very subtle.

    This test even causes my 3008WFP to flicker in some modes and that's 8-bit + FRC.

    Gradients look fine to me as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011