Dell U2412M

Discussion in 'Displays' started by brod, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    Ah, my mistake :)

    Both the NEC and the Dell have no issues resolving dark or light shades.

    This photo was taken where the Dell was at default brightness of 75 which is far too high at nearly 250 cdm/2. I've been able to match them both at 150 cdm/2 and the differences are small and subtle.

    That's mostly a function of the game and video card. If the game is usually at 60 fps or below, then tearing is minimal, but if it's above in certain areas you get tearing when frames are getting spit out too fast.

    I tried out Crysis 2 and the tearing was there in certain cut scenes but minimal on the game with my GTX 480. I'm hoping to see how high a refresh rate I can get on DVI and Display Port this weekend.

    For Display Port I'm gonna have to swap in my 5870 and load up Power Strip.

    The 2209WA was a very similar monitor, and able to see 75 hz at 1680x1050, so hopefully this screen will be able to do 72 or 75 hz over DisplayPort. This monitor has a better panel in terms of uniformity/homogeneity and lower anti-glare coating, IMHO.
     
  2. inputlagplz

    inputlagplz n00b

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    sorry to be so pushy, but any eta on the input lag test?
     
  3. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    It will be this weekend, just not sure if it will be Saturday or Sunday. I need to be careful with a 60 lb screen around my new hardwood floors upstairs :D
     
  4. insert

    insert Limp Gawd

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    so you guys say this is a good monitor because it is cheap?! sad story. lol
     
  5. Dell4

    Dell4 n00b

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    No, saying it is a good monitor because it is good...
     
  6. cesium666

    cesium666 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wait, which monitor did this? The 2412?
     
  7. popowrx

    popowrx [H]Lite

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    10e was talking about the BenQ PVA screen he sold to his friend. The info is looking good, keep the impressions coming! I'll wait on the Samsung 24 inch PLS to come out to compare but it looks like this might be my next monitor until the OLED monitors come out.
     
  8. william_fontaine

    william_fontaine Gawd

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. insert

    insert Limp Gawd

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    I am not going to replace my 2410 with something inferior.
     
  10. O_K

    O_K n00b

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    The U2412M has double the contrast ratio of the U2410, it lacks a HDMI input and does not have a wide color gamut but I guess it depends if these features are important to you although the extra cost of the U2410 is the price you pay for these.
     
  11. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Nothing like the sour grapes of someone who paid more for the older product, needing to convince himself the new product isn't any good. No one is suggesting you replace your screen.

    The reality is, the new screen is in a better part of the market now for much more people.

    It has much better contrast.
    It has a more usable low end to the brightness range.
    sRGB gamut is actually more usefull to more people than wide gamut.
    It is $200 less expensive.

    Even if these were both the same price today, I would get the U2412 for the better contrast and native adjustable sRGB.
     
  12. Freezebyte

    Freezebyte 2[H]4U

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    I really question the "better contrast" in regards to if its just more marketing BS and or if its people truly seeing a difference between the two panels, which 90% of the time is a placebo effect anyway. People will see what they wanna see, wether out of necessity or ignorance

    Either way, I had a 6bit panel before and never again. I also refuse to play the guinea pig with brand new product launches. I prefer buying stuff that has its kinks and QC issues worked out. The 2412M also doesn't come with the "No bright pixel" gaurrentee either vs the U2410 and the U2410 can be switched to sRGB mode, so I dont' see what the big deal is
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  13. mdk30

    mdk30 [H]ard|Gawd

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    10e: First, let me just say that I really appreciate your posts/review of this monitor so far. I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your tests over the weekend.

    Second, it seems as though you have a lot of firsthand experience with different monitors, so would you happen to have much hands-on time with the HP ZR24W?

    I'm looking to build a new EyeFinity system in the next few months and until the U2412 came out I was pretty sure I was going to be basing the system around 3x ZR24Ws. If you're familiar enough with both, which would you recommend as of now for EyeFinity gaming?
     
  14. IanM

    IanM [H]ard|Gawd

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    While game & GPU is a major influence, I still think there is a noticeable difference between monitors, especially when we're stuck with games that have poorly implemented vsync, or don't have the option at all (I'm very grateful for D3DOverrider) I am of the opinion that my U2311H is a little more susceptible to tearing than the 2209WA that I also have. Mainly based on STALKER, and while the resolution difference may be a factor, it's not the most taxing game for an overclocked 5850. Not that the U2311H is horrible, but I ideally would want something equal or better for my next monitor.
     
  15. Daemos

    Daemos Limp Gawd

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    What you are experiencing is called cognitive dissonance. You are attempting to relieve the dissonance by using any means to justify your purchase. Nothing to worry about, everyone does it to attempt to justify doing something, or why they decided to choose option a instead of option b. In this situation it's also called buyer's remorse.

    The US pricing sucks for the 2711...not sure how that burns a hole in my wallet...as I'd get a much better deal in Australia (that's a first!) even off the dell website! but Dell is not the cheapest (mostly due to the recent price increase for the monitors!)

    The 2711 is $636 AUD
    http://www.ht.com.au/part/Y3355-Dell-UltraSharp-U2711-LCD-display-TFT-27/detail.hts

    the 2410 is $528 AUD
    http://www.ht.com.au/part/X2396-Dell-UltraSharp-U2410-LCD-display-TFT-24/detail.hts

    HT doesn't have the 2412 in stock yet...but the dell AU site has it for $400 and there are always 15% off discount codes floating around...so the 2412 is $340AUD shipped,

    unless if you require the adobe RGB (which very few professional programs can even make use of) I believe the 2412 is the better monitor...some professional photographers use argb with a calibrated printer...but for just web use browsers to my knowledge only display srgb, and viewing srgb picbures or programs in argb mode actually throws off color accuracy due to the difference in how the colors are interperted.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  16. Daemos

    Daemos Limp Gawd

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    Clearly you are experiencing some conflit with your purchase or else you wouldn't be trying to justify it to everyone else.

    Contrast ratio was measured by someone with proper tools, which means it isn't a placebo effect. Unless if you have poor eyes, contrast ratio is MUCH easier to tell a difference in than colour accuracy. The 2410 doesn't tend to have as good measuered contrast ratio.

    if you look at 10e's post here: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037563158&postcount=207

    he MEASURED the contrast ratio to be between 1100:1 and 1200:1 he didin't take it off a box as the dell's website states the typical is 1000:1...this is for the 2412m

    tftcentral.co.uk has measured the CR of the 2410, and calibrated using their calibration tools it's under 550:1 which is REALLY poor. Even the factory calibration is max 750:1 in argb mode.

    Not to mention 6-bit + AFRC look good, with proper calibration their colour accuracy is great and colour anding is non-existant.

    In fact in the 2412m DOES come with the same Premium Panel Guarantee as he 2410.

    see: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...e_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=0&~ck=baynoteSearch (this is the dell USA site)

    "Premium Panel Guarantee: 100% replacement of Dell UltraSharp series monitors sold if any bright pixel is found, valid within the warranty period."

    As well if the 2311's review on tftcentral (which uses a similar e-ips 6-bit + AFRC panel) is anything to go by the colour accuracy will be great, contrast ratio will still be solid (better than the 2410 easily) and input lag is much lower even with the 2410 in gaming mode.
     
  17. NivOn

    NivOn n00b

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    10e, as always, thanks for your detailed feedback - much appreciated! Benq introduced a new "premium" mode for AMA in EW2430 though reviews don't seem to indicate too much improvement. Real pity.

    Anyway, it's good to see IPS making good progress in terms of contrast. 1000:1 and above is great.
     
  18. NCX

    NCX [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wish they had a glossy version.

    lol @ people thinking the the worst IPS panel on the market (lowest rated by PRAD) is better. Black will be black, not grey on the 2412. Look forward to seeing other tint free units with good uniformity.

    I wonder what it is that makes them suddenly able to achieve good contrast on IPS, which we have only seen on a few of the 23" e-ips and older RGB LED (HP Dream Color+LG models with AT-W polarizers) models.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  19. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    No, I think it is a good screen, and the price is icing on the cake. $399.99 Canadian for a good quality IPS panel is a great deal IMHO, even not on sale.

    I could see the difference before I put my colorimeter on it. While the off-angle black mirror glow is there, the contrast, or specifically the black level was very good seen through my eyes from the start.

    And having viewed some older, horrible 6-bit panels with poor dithering implementation recently at a training course, I could tell you that you would be hard pressed to see the difference between this and a "true" 8-bit panel. I will put it next to my soon departing U2711 and see if there is in terms of that.

    Either way, be happy with your purchase. The U2410 is a quality monitor and I'm sure will give you years of good service.

    BTW, the Ultrasharp guarantee (as mentioned by Daemos) does apply to this screen too.

    If the U2412M wasn't available last week (and thanks to zod96 pointing out that availability last Thursday) I would have bought one of these. Either way I'm trying to find a retail establishment where I can view one to compare and contrast. That and the Asus PA246Q which is the twin of the U2410. If I find one I'll get back to you.

    It's possible. If I get time I'll try the same game on my LCD2490WUXi2 and see if there is a difference at 60hz. Otherwise if the U2412M can go higher refresh rates, that may help mitigate tearing without v-sync further.

    I might even do an EyeFinity with these two screens and my 5870 (or nVidia surround as I have two GTX 480s) and see if I notice anything.

    It's a shame that the pixel response was so poor on this panel, as the superb contrast ratio/black levels, and LED backlight made this a potentially great deal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  20. william_fontaine

    william_fontaine Gawd

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    edit: not feeding troll
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  21. suiken_2mieu

    suiken_2mieu 2[H]4U

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    Off Topic: Hey guys, before anyone gets banned, I think personal pot shots should be kept to a minimum. Also the people creating the situation where these pot shots can become prevalent should also chill out.

    On Topic: I'm not sure if my monitors (3007wfp-hc) are wide gamut or not (I expect they are), but if so, will it make it impossible to match colors with my current monitors?
     
  22. inputlagplz

    inputlagplz n00b

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    Guys please stop feeding the troll, you are just adding useless replies to the thread and wasting 10e precious time (time he needs for the input lag test hahahaha )
    Edit:
    Just report his posts
     
  23. NCX

    NCX [H]ardness Supreme

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    There won't be any input lag, the 1440-1600p monitors with scalers only have 18ms (PRAD.de) so I would not worry about it. The only thing to worry about is the AG coating and quality control.
     
  24. tk-don

    tk-don Limp Gawd

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    The difference will be noticeable, even if you try to calibrate it to sRGB. The white point may also have drifted due to aging, so that a new monitor will look blue-ish/cold in comparison.
    If you're using the monitors as two independent screens with some space between them, i'd personally not bother about the difference. But if they are to be placed with no space between them an used with desktop extension, I don't think you'll like the end result.

    I think it is best to have it tested and measured instead of a qualified guess. I don't think it will have much of an input lag (not that I bother the least), but since so many asked for it, it would be nice to have 10e get the chance to confirm/measure it, also depending on different scaling options :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  25. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

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    Yea I assumed the 2412 and the 2311 would likely have similar input lag numbers since they are both similar specced eIPS panels with just different backlight arrangements. I just dont know if I can go from my 120hz 2233rz which I have been using for almost 2 years back to 60hz. Colors and pixel pitch aside, I am definitely gaming less than I was when I was younger, so i guess it wouldnt matter to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  26. suiken_2mieu

    suiken_2mieu 2[H]4U

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    Well i wanted to use them as satellite monitors on the edges to do 5x1 eyefinity (24"30"30"30"24") in portrait mode. Then for desktop work go to using extended monitors with 3 separate desktops like this [_][___][_], where the group in the center will be the 30"rs. I figured I'd see if I could get used to only having 1920x1200 to work with on each monitor and see if it's viable for me to down size to 5x1 24"rs with a 30" on the side or above the monitors.

    Code:
          30"
         [___]                             30"
    [_][_][_][_][_]   or [_][_][_][_][_]  [___]
          24"                   24"       
    
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  27. Crosshairs

    Crosshairs Administrator Staff Member

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    Enough with the insults and personal attacks....if you have nothing constructive to add, don't post......
     
  28. NCX

    NCX [H]ardness Supreme

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    The colors on the 2233rz suck, profiling is the only way to get good picture quality. Many reviews say this and the unit I owned was the same. Nothing can be done in the OSD to fix the image quality.

    I got rid of mine for a 60hz with better PQ a while back and it was 200% worth it. The 2412 will be a major improvement unless the pixel response time is very slow like the latest LG e-IPS panels.
     
  29. tk-don

    tk-don Limp Gawd

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    Interesting project! I know LCDs are more efficient than CRTs, but i don't think i want to see your electric bill. :D
    All joking aside, not completely sure what i'd advice you to do. A difference in the colors will always be visible, so the plan with 5x24" and a 30" below or next to them would definitely be the best solution (i.e. least bothersome). As LEDs don't age the same ways as CCFLs, you could buy 2 U2412s now and buy three more later, if you decide the pixel pitch is fine.... that is, unless LG decides to use different manufacturers for the LEDs.
     
  30. Daemos

    Daemos Limp Gawd

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    I believe the 3007wfp-hc is a wide gamut monitor, so there will be differences in how colors are presented. But not only that the back lighting will become less efficient over time and that also changes the colour reproduction over time.

    Some articles that might help you and others on the topic of Adobe RGB and SRGB color spaces and the differences.
    http://www.jseaman.com/articles/srgb.html

    here's a good topic about using srgb stuff on argb monitors http://www.colorforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=852&sid=3ee5c0e1c631931bde22e0c61ef7f651

    because I am not a professional with access to professional equipment, I think srgb would be the best bet for most people so the colours of srgb (basically most content) gets translated correctly, as (255,0,0) in srgb is not equal to (255,0,0) in argb.
     
  31. steal

    steal 2[H]4U

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    I'm thinking it might have something to do with the LED vs CCFL backlighting, or perhaps some minor improvements in panel tech that allows less bleed through.
     
  32. kurtd

    kurtd n00b

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  33. steal

    steal 2[H]4U

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    I wouldn't put too much faith into these numbers. The 2209WA and a few of the other 1080p IPS panels which are supposedly 60hz panels have all been able to hit 75hz or so quite easily, even if it is out of spec.
     
  34. rmp459

    rmp459 [H]Lite

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    Thanks for the input. I know the 2233rz is TERRIBLE in terms of PQ and especially colors. I just cant decide if 60hz is gonna mess with me FPS gaming wise at this point.
     
  35. tk-don

    tk-don Limp Gawd

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    It doesn't have anything to do with the back lighting type - even if it had 200 lit candle lights inside, the contrast would be unaffected.

    Since the electrodes are only placed on one side of the liquid crystal material in IPS monitors, it reduces the transparency of the panel, thus requiring a stronger backlight. Since the LC material doesn't align itself to completely block all light, it will always emit some. Methods of improving how much light is "trapped" is by making the electrodes more and more accurate when it comes to control of the LC (different layouts).... otherwise it doesn't make sense why LG is toying so much with different structures. :)
     
  36. kurtd

    kurtd n00b

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    Dell 2209WA using LG LM220WE4-SLB1, which is according datasheet http://www.hy-line.de/fileadmin/hy-...ts/LM220WE4-SLB1 CAS_Final_Ver 1.0_090406.pdf
    75Hz max vsynch

    Ok there could be chance to "overclock" lcd panel itself, but i still doubt that Dell U2412( LG Display LM240WU8) could run more than 61 Hz.
     
  37. insert

    insert Limp Gawd

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    they should call it u2409wa not u2412. thing has e-ips panel, i dont think u guys know but the 2410 uses a h-ips panel, a lot richer color lcd. let everyone know, u guys only say, oh this is a IPS panel. but u dont say what kind it is.
     
  38. suiken_2mieu

    suiken_2mieu 2[H]4U

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    Well that naming scheme kinda doesn't work well with dell as the model number doesn't generally refer to only the quality of the panel.

    u = ultrasharp feature set
    24 = 24"
    12 = Year Manufactured... well kinda, they always make it the year before the actual number.

    I get that you're trying to say this is just a big version of the 2209wa, but I think you're missing the point, dell is catering to different crowd with this monitor.
     
  39. popowrx

    popowrx [H]Lite

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    IPS Panel aside, 10e has actually done testing on it and is saying it compares favorably to one of the best IPS monitors out there, the NEC 2490WUXi2, which retails for a heck of a lot more and does not have an "e-ips" panel.

    Like NCX, I wish this thing had a glossy version as I just love the vibrancy it gives colors and blacks and can deal with the reflections.
     
  40. ToastyX

    ToastyX [H]ard|Gawd

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    Except e-IPS is not a panel type. Most of the previous e-IPS monitors have been H-IPS. The U2410 has richer colors because it has wide gamut backlighting, not because it's H-IPS. It doesn't really matter what kind it is.