Valve Index

Discussion in 'VR & Head-Mounted Displays' started by atarumoroboshi18, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. atarumoroboshi18

    atarumoroboshi18 [H]Lite

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  2. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    Nice! Definitely more interested in this over the mixed bag offering of the Rift S.
     
  3. SeymourGore

    SeymourGore 2[H]4U

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    Sounds like Valve has software planned for this hardware.


    Could it be...?
     
  4. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    Shit's gonna get real!
     
  5. equinox654

    equinox654 Limp Gawd

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  6. atarumoroboshi18

    atarumoroboshi18 [H]Lite

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    One thing that this also means...Valve Knuckles could ALSO be releasing this year! I've seen a LOT of VR developers use them lately, including AntonHand(H3VR Dev) who is using them near exclusively when doing his Twitch Dev Blogs.
     
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  7. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Hopefully this uses the 2160x2160 panels that the HP Reverb uses (or even higher resolution).
     
  8. ng4ever

    ng4ever [H]ard|Gawd

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    Omg awesome now the question will it be worth it? Plus how much?
     
  9. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Rumored to have 135 fov, if it has inside out tracking and decent resolution I'll grab this over the rift s or reverb.
     
  10. Bigc208

    Bigc208 Limp Gawd

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    We have a member getting a [H]ardon over this announcement? No specs, not even speculation so what’s all the hoopla about? I want to upgrade my Rift CV1 badly to get rid of GodRays and SDE. So far it’s all sideways with what’s being offered. Not going to get all worked up only to be let down again. Them showing nothing untill the release tells me not to expect miracles. If they had something worthwile they would release the specs to prevent folks from buying something else before the May release.
     
  11. equinox654

    equinox654 Limp Gawd

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    I'm hoping it comes with the knuckles controllers. There are plenty of reviews of the dev kits on youtube.
     
  12. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    Probably isnt real ;)
     
  13. Bigc208

    Bigc208 Limp Gawd

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    Well, you never know, it’s [H]ardforum afterall.
     
  14. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    The wood or the fact that Valve is offering us a upgraded HMD choice in May? :D

    Built in headphones, knuckle controllers, superior tracking of HMD and controllers due to lighthouses, optically adjustable IPD, more FOV, full 90Hz refresh and better resolution than Rift S? No brainer for me... will be an instant purchase. Rift S can go pound sand.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  15. equinox654

    equinox654 Limp Gawd

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    It was just a semi....
     
  16. misterbobby

    misterbobby 2[H]4U

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  17. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    You're speculating A LOT!

    This thread is hilarious.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  18. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    Fake news
     
  19. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    Take a look at Valve’s Index teaser pic that they just released with the May 2019 reveal date. They even call it out as an “upgrade” and prominently show an IPD slider.

    Then take a look at the leaked Valve HMD from November (which had built in headphones and looks identical to the Index’s shape/details).

    Then examine all the Valve Knuckle controller development kits that are actively being used and shown by VR developers on YouTube.

    Just not a whole lot of speculation going on here if you actually bother to pay attention and connect some dots. Some speculation? Sure, but to classify it as “A LOT!” just reveals your complete ignorance of everything that has been going on here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  20. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    I didnt mean it that way not at you.

    Your resolution expectations at 90hz is like...dual 2080ti SLI territory unless they've used foveated rendering.

    There are so many wishes and wants with VR but the underlying GPU tech isn't there yet. There were many games that would utterly peg my old 1080ti on regular oculus rift much less the fact you want to double that resolution.

    Also we are getting VR now like RGB. All these different eco systems with no cross connection. At least oculus let's you play steam VR. Then there is vive...and now valve and who know what else will try and compete.

    But if your speculation turns out to be right well it will surely be a nice HMD. Especially if it tracks legs and arms motion naturally.

    Buy why a may reveal? What's to stop me from getting a rift s before the valve?
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  21. reaper12

    reaper12 2[H]4U

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    Valve haven't exactly got the best record when it comes to hardware. Steam Machines were a failure(and pretty expensive) the Steam link box gave nothing but trouble for a lot of people and you can't even buy it any more. The Steam controller is ok, but, has a learning curve. So I don't understand this "It's a no Brainer for me" just because Valve's name is on it.

    It might be all the things you say, but, it still might be a crap headset. Specifications are only part of the story. Look at the Rift S for example, the specs on paper don't seem to be that great, but, all the people who actually tried the headset say it's really good, more comfortable then the Rift, the 80Hz makes no difference compared to 90Hz, The SDE is all but gone, no God rays, people with an IPD of 59 were fine using it, And you have to really go out of your way to lose tracking. While it might not be much of an upgrade for people with Rift/Vive, it seems like it's much better than it's specs suggest.

    The rumours that are circulating are that it's FOV is 135 and the res is 1440 by 1600. It doesn't say anything about the refresh rate, but, my guess is that it will more than likely be 80Hz so that it's useable by less powerful systems.

    But, if it's a no brainer for you, just wondering what price are you willing to pay for it? If it's going to be all you say it is, then it's going to be expensive, especially when you count the cost of the knuckle controllers. I guess it depends on what market they are aiming for. If it comes in at the same price as the Rift S, chances are neither of the two headsets are going to be much of an upgrade for Rift/Vive users.
     
  22. reaper12

    reaper12 2[H]4U

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    I agree, there are lot of people assuming this is going to be an amazing headset based on very little info. It certainly looks interesting, but, will need a lot more information and some reviews before deciding if it's a no brainer or not.
     
  23. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    You seem to have forgotten that Valve pretty much did all the innovative hardware tech that went into the Vive. Yes, HTC produced it, but Valve did most of the heavy lifting and shared the tech with them.

    No brainer for me if it delivers on the things that I’ve listed. I want a true upgrade, not the side grade that Rift S seems to be peddling with Its mediocre res bump. As to what I’m willing to pay, for me personally, anything under $1K would be just fine, but I suspect the HMD itself will come in at around $500 (most likely at cost, as they will make it up in software sales) with the knuckles adding another $200. And yes, this is now becoming a lot more speculative now. :D

    You have the rumors on the resolution predictions all wrong: Check this reddit thread out...

    Not yet convinced they’ll go that high on the resolution, we’ll just will have to wait and see. Even if it just offers a resolution bump up to the Vive Pro/Odysses Plus territory, it will still be a better resolution upgrade path than the measly bump the Rift S is offering.

    I was an earlier adopter on both the Rift and the Vive... back when they were easily $800+ each fully kitted out. (Rift + Touch + Extra sensor and Vive + deluxe audio strap)
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  24. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    If this is real and not an April fools joke:



    Bad news. Display-port 1.2 listed, meaning the displays are low resolution in the Index. If the Index uses the JDI 2,160 × 2,432 as rumored in the Reddit thread, it would need DP 1.3-1.4.
     
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  25. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    Yep, may only be Vive Pro territory as to the screen resolution then... Or maybe they are going to be scaling to a higher resolution screen in a similar fashion to what the Pimax is doing. Regardless, it will still be a better resolution than what the Rift S is pushing though.
     
  26. NickJames

    NickJames [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not interested in adopting to a new ecosystem but I am interested to see if the Knuckles will release with it, been waiting too damn long for those!
     
  27. reaper12

    reaper12 2[H]4U

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    Oops forgot about this thread. And, no, I didn't forget about Valve and HTC working on the Vive, but, we don't know how much of it is Valve and how much HTC, the headset that went in was much different than the one that was released. But, I guess you are right, and that Valve can sometimes make good hardware.

    If it comes in at the same resolution as the Reverb, because, you surely don't suggest that the Vive Pro resolution is a "True upgrade" and with the 135 FOV and all the other things that you mention, then it will be pricey. I am not convinced that they are going to sell this at cost, but, if as you say, it's cost is going to be made up with software sales, then they will have to make a headset that works for the masses, not the enthusiast gaming crowd who have 2080Tis.

    I think I have the rumours about the resolution spot on, I am actually pretty sure it's going to be the same res as the Vive Pro, and I also believe the FOV is going to be 120 not 135. I read that thread you linked to and yeah, there is a lot of far out speculation based on very little.

    I was also an early adopter of the both the Rift and the Vive, but, the VR landscape has changed. I wasn't willing to upgrade to the Vive Pro because it wasn't a good enough upgrade, Not going to upgrade to the Rift S either. If the Valve Index is the same Res as the Vive pro, then it's not a true upgrade either. The FOV is going to make things interesting as well, by interesting, I mean, it could actually lower the picture quality because you have the resolution spread over a wider FOV.

    Interesting times ahead to be sure, I just think that it depends on what market Valve is aiming for. If it's for the enthusiast crowd, then it might well be the true upgrade that you and Vega are looking for. But, I personally think that it's going to be aimed at the masses, it's going to be a little bit better than the Rift S, but not a lot. With the Knuckle controllers and the ability to add the light house tracking been it's main draw for those that want a bit extra.
     
  28. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    What makes the knuckles so great? They friggin huge. The touch by rift are much smaller and work very good. Is there something about knuckles that are more immersive? Serious question.
     
  29. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    The knuckles are only "great" when compared to the Vive wands, which really sort of suck as VR controllers go when compared to the Touch controllers. I still think the Touch controllers are a bit better in overall design, but the Knuckles pretty much close the gap and offer something that is very close to Touch when it comes to a good VR controller. What the knuckles do offer that is slightly better is complete finger grip tracking for every digit (individually), the ability to sense grip strength and the ability to completely "let go" of your grip without loosing the controller - i.e. allowing for a more natural "throwing" and "gripping" motion. Other than that, they are pretty much comparable to what Touch provides - only slighly bulkier and with just a tad less ergonomics aboard when it comes to hand grip shape.
     
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  30. sboucher

    sboucher Gawd

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    No, it's good news. Goal is to display the best possible image quality at a resolution our rigs can actually handle (See Pimax). The resolution this thing will have along with the rumored index lenses sounds as though they'll offer a very high quality experience.

    I trust in Valve that this thing will deliver. Day 1 purchase.
     
  31. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Looks like it still uses lighthouses, if so I'm out.
     
  32. sc5mu93

    sc5mu93 [H]Lite

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    I am interested into how interoperable it will be with previous HTC components. will the wands still work? can I use the old base stations? wireless adapter compatibility?
     
  33. TroubleMagnet

    TroubleMagnet Gawd

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    It looks like it uses a single lighthouse 2.0 and inside out tracking as well. This very well could be the best of both worlds as we may get the ease of use of the inside out tracking with the option to upgrade the accuracy and avoid occusion issues by adding in a lighthouse. Need more details and some hands on reports to know for sure.
     
  34. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    If it can run without them at all, I'm back in :). I have a portable VR setup now and don't want to go back to external tracking - it's so much easier with inside out and if WMR can figure it out and still have accurate tracking (at least while hands are in view), Valve should be able to as well. I'd actually like that being optional even more - I could put the lighthouses in my man cave where I do the majority of my VR stuff and have the more accurate tracking while still being able to take it with me and deal with the slightly reduced tracking.
     
  35. misterbobby

    misterbobby 2[H]4U

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    I have a dedicated gaming/tv room but I do not want to fool with using the lighthouses at all. In fact it was one of the reasons I went with the Rift last year as their sensor setup seemed easier even though I knew I would need three of them. Both the lighthouse and rift sensor setup are just tacky as hell looking IMO and I like a cable and clutter free setup as possible. I was so damn happy to get rid of that Rift setup and was looking forward to the Rift S but I am intrigued by the Index so I will wait until both are out and thoroughly reviewed before I decide what to get...
     
  36. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    Was all set to buy the rift s for my laptop so I can have portable VR but in going to wait to see the index now before I make my choice.
     
  37. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    "lenses" aren't magic. Any resolution for two displays at 90 Hz that fit in DP 1.2 will look terrible. Especially at 135-140 FOV. Period.
     
  38. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    Off ya go
     
  39. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    I hope it can use 1.0 lighthouses, so I don't have to change my existing setup if I decide to get one.
     
  40. Pegi

    Pegi Limp Gawd

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    Yes, it is backward compatible with 1.0 lighthouses. (Conversely, keep in mind that one is NOT able to use the Vive controllers with the Index 2.0 lighthouses). I'm planning on using my Vive lighthouses with the Index and Index controllers, as well.

    Anyone have any time guestimate as to when the preorder page will hit? I'd like to get the order in before the site crashes.
     
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