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Linux is awful...apparently

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tacohunter52 said:
In all honesty, if you know what you are doing, you can get most things running on any os. The main exception being gaming...
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Even gaming's pretty good, I'm constantly amazed at the advances Linux has made considering gaming in the last few years and enjoy gaming on all my machines - Although I do like to support developers that support Linux where possible by purchasing their Linux ports.
 
tacohunter52 said:
That is a matter of preference honestly. I like Debian based distros usually (not ubuntu though, because I don't like unity) My go to has always been plain old debian, because it is lightweight, and I like to just install whatever packages I want on my own. If you want something that is more of a one click install, maybe Mint.

Are you saying you want the mouse to act like a trackpad? Like you move the pointer around a second screen using the first screen (screens being extended)

Software being cross platform goes back to software support not being dependant on the OS, but devs making portable software. That said, I can name a lot of software that I can use on Linux, that you will not find on Windows. I can also do it vice versa, and for OSX.

In all honesty, if you know what you are doing, you can get most things running on any os. The main exception being gaming...
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All I was wondering is which Linux distro you find to be solid on 2 in 1 devices, I just wanted to try it out.
 
heatlesssun said:
Gaming on Linux is fine if one limits themselves to what's available on Linux. One can do that with Windows and not have to lose everything they already have that's not Linux compatible.
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Not interested mate, we've been over this discussion.
 
heatlesssun said:
All I was wondering is which Linux distro you find to be solid on 2 in 1 devices, I just wanted to try it out.
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And I gave you my recomendation, anything based on Debian :p

The main difference between the different debian based distros is the packages that come preinstalled. Mint comes with a lot already bundled for you.
 
BulletDust said:
Because the whole idea is to distance one's self from Windows, therefore the fact that alternative software is also available under the Windows platform is of little importance to such users....
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And once again you're defining PCs in your own needs and wants.
 
tacohunter52 said:
And I gave you my recomendation, anything based on Debian :p

The main difference between the different debian based distros is the packages that come preinstalled. Mint comes with a lot already bundled for you.
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Thanks, I have Ubuntu 17.04 on my Surface Pro 3. Not exactly great with 2 in 1s out of the box.
 
heatlesssun said:
Of course you're not interested in something like Destiny 2. You're not interested in anything on PCs that doesn't work with Linux. That's fine. But that's not PC users.
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I've got a windows PC, what makes you come to that conclusion?
 
tacohunter52 said:
What doesnt work?
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Compared to Windows 10 on a 2 in 1, a lot out of the box at least. Windows has long had 2 in 1s with touch and pen capability but all that was before Windows 8 was a desktop OS with software that was designed to with precision pointer and keyboard had touch and pen input in the OS.
 
Ok, I can agree with you on the "doesnt work out of the box" aspect. But if you think linux is supposed to supppet everything "out of the box" you are gravely mistaken.

My whole point in all of this, is that YOU CAN get just about everything mentioned in this thread running on Linux.., it does however take some knowledge on how to actually operate a computer.., hence, my very first comment.
 
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BulletDust said:
Another point I've been trying to get across for months, awesome..
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Everyone gets that point. But this is a forum with a lot of people that have spent a lot of money to play PC games. PC gaming is an extremely important consumer PC market because while it may be niche there are those that spend shit tons on it. In just this small forum there people who have spent combined millions of dollars to play PC games.
 
tacohunter52 said:
Ok, I can agree with you on the "doesnt work out of the box" aspect. But if you think linux is supposed to supppet everything "out of the box" you are gravely mistaken.

My whole point in all of this, is that YOU CAN get just about everything mentioned in this thread running on Linux.., it does however take some kmowledge on how to actually operate a computer.., hence my very first comment.
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I'm not addressing this all towards you as you have pointed out value in touch and 2 in 1s. But in following all that's been said about the subject about touch and 2 in 1s here when it comes to Windows, 2 in 1s suck, finger prints, don't know of any value in ink but hey, Linux is just as good on 2 in 1s except not out of the box and you have you have to have specialized knowledge about Linux and 2 in 1s.

The message here is so a scrambled mess that do you honestly think that anyone besides a Linux fan would be convinced about Linux on 2 in 1s?
 
I don't care if people put linux on a 2 in 1. Or if people even use Linux. I just don't like seeing false information being spread (about any os)
 
tacohunter52 said:
I don't care if people put linux on a 2 in 1. Or if people even use Linux. I just don't like seeing false information being spread (about any os)
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I'm not spreading false information. I use Windows 10 with touch, pen and 2 in 1 devices as part of my daily PC life, every bit as much as my non-touch sig rig loaded to the gills with conventional PC software including much of that alternative software that many pro-desktop Linux fans mention. Everything from LibreOffice to GIMP to MuseScore and Kodi to MS Office to Adobe DC to PowerDVD to 2 VR headsets, multiple 2 in 1s, etc.
 
The false information was that Linux doesn't work on 2 in 1s. And then the slew of reasons why it doesn't work on 2 in 1s.

I'm glad you use opensource though. Stick it to those corporate bastards ;)

Edit: I guess the take away is, i'm not trying to argue either side.., just point out what's possible.
 
tacohunter52 said:
The false information was that Linux doesn't work on 2 in 1s. And then the slew of reasons why it doesn't work on 2 in 1s.

I'm glad you use opensource though. Stick it to those corporate bastards ;)

Edit: I guess the take away is, i'm not trying to argue either side.., just point out what's possible.
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I never said that Linux doesn't work on 2 in 1s. To the contrary I pointed out that on a even Microsoft device, a Surface Pro 3, that all of the hardware, touch, pen and the Type Cover work under Ubuntu 17.04. I was debating how well these capabilities are supported.
 
tacohunter52 said:
Ah, well then either I completely misunderstood or someone else said there wasn't support. I'm far to lazy to read back through this thread and see. Lol
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You're good in my book. I get that folks think I hate desktop Linux and that's just not true. I'd love if Linux had Windows' strengths.
 
auntjemima said:
That is YOUR opinion. If it wasn't used, they wouldm't waste time developing it. Microsoft drops programs left and right and yet OneNote has been around for ages. Get off your high horse and thinking you speak for everyone.
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Really though no one uses hand writing recognition in the real world the way heatle makes it sound.

It really is one of the most pointless bits of "pro" software imaginable. When you apply for a job that requires lots of data entry do they ask you how many words per min you type or how fast you can scribble on a screen ?

I get that heatle figures its a big deal but at the end of the day that is his argument.... touch on Linux is crap... because all it does is work. Libre doesn't have hand writing translation tech.... so MS wins. Yes Ink is MS patented tech.... good for them. If that is a feature you really really really must have I completely agree run windows and buy MS office. Its not a feature that sells office.... its a feature heatle trots out to try and win an argument of course. ;)

Libre office has strengths... MS office has strengths. Both cover 99% of what pretty much any user is looking for. For every little feature anyone points to and says Word or Excel still has this... I can point to a feature in Writer or Calc that MS does not have. Many of the little things in libres suite imo are much more important to actual business users.

Ink is not a tech I have EVER been asked about. Not once has a client ever said to me hey we use MS Ink what are my options. However I have been asked can I add tables using math formulas in a table within a doc. (Why yes you can in LIbre unlike Word) Can we easily convert these old ebook format files we have. (was asked by a publishing company and why yes you can actually directly open those in libre awsome right?) Likewise hey we have a bunch of archived stuff in Mac we have been meaning to convert could you help use with that ? (no need check it out Libre opens em no issue crazy right) Easier custom dictionary setup imo. Better direct PDF features. Javascript and Python scripting. Being able to use python in Libre is a big plus right now, Python is hot, Visual basic not so much. When it comes to excel yes I will completely admit that companies that use a ton of Excel macros prefer to stick with Excel who could blame them rewriting things is a PITA. Having said that Calc macros in general translate to excel just fine as far as future proofing goes... and long term the way things are heading MS may have to either add python support or start paying for it in market share. (the few companies I know that took the time rewriting their excel macros didn't regret anything after it was done)

Anyway I didn't mean to make a post detailing advantages of Libre... my only point is heatles point about ink is imo not a big deal for the vast majority of office users. Touch and pen support work fine in Libre. For pro users pen support = wacom anyway not on screen junk. Linux wacom tablet support is top notch that is what really matters. People using Inkscape, autodesks maya, sidefxs products like houdini, or Foundry products like modo ect, could care less about touch screen support they want proper tablet support. I guess my point is heatle talks about MS ink and a few touch gestures like its the second coming for professional users... well its not the people that would care about having Pen support are FULLY supported on linux and they really really don't care about 2 in 1s. :) Talking about 2 in 1s and pro features is just odd. They are step up tablets that I honestly believe won't be a thing within the next few years tops.

If hand writing rec was a viable business feature... Palm Pilots would never have died >.< Cause graffiti was fantastic. A few people have made palm pilot graffiti like input apps for android and ios... but are they really popular in the business word ? Not that I have seen. Heatle can crow about Ink all he likes. If its a killer feature for you by all means scratch Linux out Ink is a MS thing.
 
heatlesssun said:
And that software is often cross platform. People are often mentioning alternative software in these Linux threads and frequently there's a native Windows version. I don't think some get how alternative software argument isn't always a great argument when one can go download, install and test this alternative software without having to use that's being promoted in that argument.
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Please get this for once my friend. I have went over this many many times.

Non-commercial Linux software tends to be open source... and coded by groups of people willing to help out and make some bit of software they like to use great.

It is 100% OPEN... the code is not hidden. Its right there... if you want to add some proper headers and run it through a windows compiler have at it. There are very few open source projects that don't have someone on the team willing to take a few min and compile for windows and mac. Why not we have created it to share... so share away. lol

Having said that... in many cases guess what it does run better on Linux cause well you know... the people that created it where using Linux and have added plenty of support for external pluggins or modules or notification systems ect ect. Sometimes it just plain runs faster not having to compile a bunch of libraries into the exe version.

Cross platform is the future... because Linux people in general don't suck. ;) We don't adapt and compile our code for Linux... we do that for windows you know... nice people. :)
 
heatlesssun said:
All I was wondering is which Linux distro you find to be solid on 2 in 1 devices, I just wanted to try it out.
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Careful know he is setting you up... lol You will recommend one... he will download the latest beta and if he runs into any issues trying to get it on his MS surface he will post for a few months about how he tried linux and it sucked hard on 2 in 1s. :)

Go do your own research heatle. Its not hard to use the internet box on your desk.
 
heatlesssun said:
Of course you're not interested in something like Destiny 2. You're not interested in anything on PCs that doesn't work with Linux. That's fine. But that's not PC users.
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How many times has bullet pointed out he has a windows gaming rig for such games ?

Don't answer cause its been more then a few times he has even posted some snazzy pics. lol
 
heatlesssun said:
Compared to Windows 10 on a 2 in 1, a lot out of the box at least. Windows has long had 2 in 1s with touch and pen capability but all that was before Windows 8 was a desktop OS with software that was designed to with precision pointer and keyboard had touch and pen input in the OS.
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Did your surface ship with Linux ?

It didn't did it....

Do you think when Dell ships developer XPS 13s with ubuntu they don't ensure everything just works out of the box.
http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/
http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/dsu/
http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/omsa.html

I know its crazy but companies that sell hardware tend to ensure the software is good to go out of the box. Its pretty unfair to expect a general 1.2gb ISO image to have everything everyone needs for machines ranging from 12 year old VIA x86 machines to i9 / thread ripper fire breathers to your surface touch screen.
 
ChadD said:
So why do you make it sound like its a big deal for open source developers to compile for every system they can easily compile for ? :)
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I never said it was a big deal, all I said is that there's no point in switching operating systems to use readably available cross platform software while giving up other software that's not unless all on cares about it the operating system. I get that you and Bullet have all of these clueless folks that don't have a clue paying you guys for services. No one touches all the money I've dumped into my shit except the misses. My PCs are as personal as it gets.

So if a lot of McDonald's folks can use Linux, sure I get that. Any computing device can surf the web. And as I work at a large bank I get things like Hadoop. Linux is great for a lot of things. It's useless for gaming and has too many gaps in client software.
 
ChadD said:
Careful know he is setting you up... lol You will recommend one... he will download the latest beta and if he runs into any issues trying to get it on his MS surface he will post for a few months about how he tried linux and it sucked hard on 2 in 1s. :)

Go do your own research heatle. Its not hard to use the internet box on your desk.
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This makes no sense. You hate 2 in 1s, you don't use them. You have no idea what a "setup" in this case would even involve. Just like when I mentioned my experiences with Linux VR, which you and Bullet have never even tried, you both go on and on with this ridiculous bullshit. You and Bullet claim to know everything about everything and don't and then blast people because desktop Linux isn't the center of the universe.
 
heatlesssun said:
I never said it was a big deal, all I said is that there's no point in switching operating systems to use readably available cross platform software while giving up other software that's not unless all on cares about it the operating system. I get that you and Bullet have all of these clueless folks that don't have a clue paying you guys for services. No one touches all the money I've dumped into my shit except the misses. My PCs are as personal as it gets.

So if a lot of McDonald's folks can use Linux, sure I get that. Any computing device can surf the web. And as I work at a large bank I get things like Hadoop. Linux is great for a lot of things. It's useless for gaming and has too many gaps in client software.
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Why did we go from talking about my clueless customers... and then talk about gaming. Dude my clients aren't gaming... I mean a few of them have done some outsource modelling in Linux for console games... which I am sure got ported to windows at some point but that isn't the point. My clients don't game... so the fact that steam has more windows titles never really comes up. lol Computers do a lot more then just game. As for gaps in client software... as I have said I don't know how many times. Gaps ? what gaps. Your talking about MS office I guess.... not everyone uses it. Or your talking about Adobes junk... believe it or not Adobe isn't the selling feature it used to be. (regardless hardcore adobe houses tend to stick to macs still in my experience... I do know at least one company that has a few macs around they use for adobe and a few other maccy things, everything else in the place is running Linux). I have yet to hear you list any client software that I seriously consider a gap. On the other hand... bash, python support and 1001 other things that COULD be achieved with windows are just far easier to deal with if the entire pipe is running Linux.
 
ChadD said:
I don't have one but sure I have seen a handful of developer edition dell XPS 13s. They ship with Ubuntu.

EDIT I assume your in the US so here's a link for you;
http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-laptop_us
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Yeah, I've seen this and again my point is that folks like you blast the hell out of touch. "But look, a touch capable Linux device shipped directly from a major PC OEM!" Comical. If touch sucks so bad on a PC then why the hell point out on of the few OEM touch capable OEM devices?

People trying to have it both ways are hard to take seriously.
 
heatlesssun said:
Indeed, I do more of even the non-gaming stuff than most of your clients.
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I'm sure you do.... did you pay for your houdini licence cash or charge ? lol ;) Dude as fun as it is to go round in circles. For the 100th time your usage case is yours. I'm sure your machine does all sorts of wonderful things other then racking up your power bills.
 
heatlesssun said:
Yeah, I've seen this and again my point is that folks like you blast the hell out of touch. "But look, a touch capable Linux device shipped directly from a major PC OEM!" Comical. If touch sucks so bad on a PC then why the hell point out on of the few OEM touch capable OEM devices?

People trying to have it both ways are hard to take seriously.
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If you actually tried to buy one you would notice they sell I think its 4 developer editions of the XPS 13 only one has touch.... and I would assume most people that spring for that one simply want the higher DPI screen for some reason. (not sure its important on a 13 inch screen but there it is)
 
ChadD said:
I'm sure you do.... did you pay for your houdini licence cash or charge ? lol ;) Dude as fun as it is to go round in circles. For the 100th time your usage case is yours. I'm sure your machine does all sorts of wonderful things other then racking up your power bills.
Click to expand...

A top line Houdini license is $3k annually. LOL!
 
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