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Linux is awful...apparently

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tacohunter52 said:
I feel like anyone who says they don't like linux doesn't actually know how to use a computer, and the author of that article is a great example of that type of person.
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I don't like Linux. There. I said it. I've swore off the stuff. Besides, FreeBSD is a much better drug! Really, try it, you'll like it!

BulletDust said:
The only thing seperating Linux from macOS is Adobe and iDevices. As far as gaming is concerned, I believe Linux holds more promise with platforms designed for more than just sleek looks that are expandable as well as affordable, Vulkan support and better drivers (yes, Mesa is getting that good).
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No. OSX is a variation of Unix derived from FreeBSD. Linux is "like Unix." Looks like the duck, but doesn't walk or quack like the duck.
 
The BSD projects are really really improving as well. They may never get the gaming support... but ya they are solid and fun to mess with. lol
 
jardows said:
No. OSX is a variation of Unix derived from FreeBSD. Linux is "like Unix." Looks like the duck, but doesn't walk or quack like the duck.
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I am aware of this, there was no need to be that specific, so I wasn't.

The fact is that terminal commands are remarkably similar, the use of the terminal is about as necessary as the use of the terminal under a modern Linux distro and the operation and even the look of my Ubuntu MATE desktop is very similar to that of OSX. Even .deb installers under Debian variants are similar to .dmg installers under OSX in that many packages require the .dmg to be run again in order to correctly uninstall the software (no, contrary to popular belief, not all software is uninstalled correctly under OSX simply by dragging the application icon from the Applications folder to the trash). Even the methods used for file mounting are identical.

And yet people constantly waffle on about the quality of the Linux UI and how difficult it is to use when it's really no different to an OS that people often refer to as 'one of the easiest to use'. In terms of operating systems, Windows with it's NT kernel really is the odd one out.
 
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BulletDust said:
I'm finding more and more workplaces turning to the Google Apps suite as opposed to MS Office, less issues, none of the ongoing licensing costs, platform independant.

We live in an age now where, more and more, Microsoft products aren't as necessary as they once were. Most of the time people stick with them out of blind fear of change.
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I call BS on that. I support many small business and none are willing to use the web apps over the Office suite. Everyone they do business with uses Office. Everyone they do business with uses Office. Then you have all the company documents are already in excel or word. Nobody wants to spend the time to convert them all. Its not just a simple decision. The someone sends then a Google Sheets link and I get calls. I love the idea of the control and uniform platform but I don't think the web apps are truly equivalent yet. They are getting much closer. Personally I get the idea of web based apps but they almost always lack functionality of the desktop counterpart. I will agree with most of what everyone has said here except for Office/Outlook. I don't have a single company that uses the web over the desktop app. There are several millenials that use gmail.com instead of Gapps with Outlook but they are in the minority. And the web apps are slower. When we all have fiber 1ms Gig then maybe the web apps will be closer.

Edit.. Forgot to mention that I have a lot of paranoid users from all the fake Dropbox login links etc. Now they are scared to open shared links from a web page. But an attachment in xlsx or docx they trust as they generally can.
 
infinity9 said:
I call BS on that. I support many small business and none are willing to use the web apps over the Office suite. Everyone they do business with uses Office. Everyone they do business with uses Office. Then you have all the company documents are already in excel or word. Nobody wants to spend the time to convert them all. Its not just a simple decision. The someone sends then a Google Sheets link and I get calls. I love the idea of the control and uniform platform but I don't think the web apps are truly equivalent yet. They are getting much closer. Personally I get the idea of web based apps but they almost always lack functionality of the desktop counterpart. I will agree with most of what everyone has said here except for Office/Outlook. I don't have a single company that uses the web over the desktop app. There are several millenials that use gmail.com instead of Gapps with Outlook but they are in the minority. And the web apps are slower. When we all have fiber 1ms Gig then maybe the web apps will be closer.

Edit.. Forgot to mention that I have a lot of paranoid users from all the fake Dropbox login links etc. Now they are scared to open shared links from a web page. But an attachment in xlsx or docx they trust as they generally can.
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Call it what you want, the underlying issue there is that MS Office has compatibility issues with simple ISO standards based around the file system it uses by default.

The fact is, I see an increasing number of businesses using the Google range of applications as opposed to MS Office - Most issues with Excel arise from the fact that, apart from the fact MS struggles with open compatibility, Excel is the most overused and abused software package out there, being used for far more than it was ever designed for.

[EDIT] Most of the individuals utilizing the Google range of applications are millennials and I've yet to see this paranoia regarding web based links from trusted companies that you talk about? The businesses I see using web based solutions appear to be coping just fine.
 
ChadD said:
2 in 1s are 100% a non issue heatle. The reason regular people don't use linux is because it doesn't ship on their devices for the most part. 2 in 1s that ship with Windows or android or whatever are not intended to be Linux devices. The manufacturers of such devices are not supplying drivers to the kernel why the heck would they they are not shipping with Linux.

I mean what is next saying Linux sucks because I can't get it to run properly on my ipad ?
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But here's the thing. If you have a 2 in 1 device and wanted to install Linux, we're no talking about iPads but x86 devices here, it can be very problematic. But sure the underlying issue is with getting Linux installed by default on new devices as that's what most people are going to use.
 
heatlesssun said:
But here's the thing. If you have a 2 in 1 device and wanted to install Linux, we're no talking about iPads but x86 devices here, it can be very problematic. But sure the underlying issue is with getting Linux installed by default on new devices as that's what most people are going to use.
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Once again... your talking about a DEVICE not a desktop or even laptop computer. (I'm sorry I don't care what CPU its using a MICROSOFT surface isn't a device you should be worried about installing foreign operating systems on.) If you think that I'm not making sense.... ask your self a simple question. Would I install a different version of windows on this thing ?... and if I wanted to how would I do it ? Those devices are not in general designed to have Operating systems of ANY FLAVOR installed on them out of the factory. They have Zero relevance in a discussion about the merits of Linux.

The 2 in 1 market is not an install your own OS market. You may as well say Android or ChromeOS has issues as an operating system cause I can't get it to work on my MICROSOFT surface. lmao

(I keep mentioning surface cause I know from your other posts that is what you are talking about.... like having issues installing a "foreign" OS on a MS made device should be some kinda shock... I have seen plenty of Asus and HP 2 in 1s that have had Linux installed on them and are working just fine, where there is a will there is a way in general... but ya they are not devices I would ever suggest people buy to put linux, if people where suggesting that you would have a point)
 
The 2 in 1 market is what Microsoft invented to try and claim that they own the 'mobile' marketplace.

Thing is: A 270 or 360 degree hinge with a keyboard that cannot be removed does not place a device in the 'mobile' category.

As I've stated in the past, installing Windows 7 on a laptop when you have no idea as to the exact hardware specifications can be 'problematic'. I can honestly claim that Linux is better in that regard.
 
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ChadD said:
The 2 in 1 market is not an install your own OS market. You may as well say Android or ChromeOS has issues as an operating system cause I can't get it to work on my MICROSOFT surface. lmao
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This makes no sense. An x86 based 2 in 1 is just a form factor and there's many besides the Surface, a lot were just announced at IFA. And I've installed Ubuntu on a Surface Pro 3 and there's support for all of the hardware there, pen, touch and Type Cover. The Surface line ironically is one of the better supported 2 in 1 lines for Linux. Indeed it's likely one would have better luck with a trouble free Linux install on a Surface device because it's so well known over a cheapo plastic OEM device. However desktop Linux and apps aren't particularly touch or pen aware.
 
BulletDust said:
The 2 in 1 market is what Microsoft invented to try and claim that they own the 'mobile' marketplace.

Thing is: A 270 or 360 degree hinge with a keyboard that cannot be removed does not place a device in the 'mobile' category.

As I've stated in the past, installing Windows 7 on a laptop when you have no idea as to the exact hardware specifications can be 'problematic'. I can honestly claim that Linux is better in that regard.
Click to expand...

Windows 2 in 1 devices were originally launched 15 years ago with Windows XP Tablet PC edition devices, long before smartphones.
 
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heatlesssun said:
This makes no sense. An x86 based 2 in 1 is just a form factor and there's many besides the Surface, a lot were just announced at IFA. And I've installed Ubuntu on a Surface Pro 3 and there's support for all of the hardware there, pen, touch and Type Cover. The Surface line ironically is one of the better supported 2 in 1 lines for Linux. Indeed it's likely one would have better luck with a trouble free Linux install on a Surface device because it's so well known over a cheapo plastic OEM device. However desktop Linux and apps aren't particularly touch or pen aware.
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Cause most people running Linux could give a toss about touch support.

Forget all the MS marketing speak. 2 in 1s are a stupid product in my and many peoples opinions. If you want a tablet get yourself an android tablet. If you want a "computer" buy a real one.

Surface being better supported according to you has more to do with the HAHA look it runs Linux factor then anything else. lol
 
Linux is closing the gap regarding driver issues, now and then you come across some sort of broadcom WiFi adapter with issue or the like (ironically I use two broadcom adapters, one Ethernet, one WiFi in my desktop and laptop without issue), but these days Linux isn't too bad.

Windows 10 doesn't support older hardware well at all: Hell, older Atom based processors aren't supported at all anymore. Both sides have their share of issues regarding drivers and Windows 7 doesn't even support newer processors without problematic hacks.
 
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lwGVGcOh.png

lwGVGcOh.png


Did Heatlesssun just quote, and reply, to himself?!

[EDIT] Image not working...Odd?
 
ChadD said:
Cause most people running Linux could give a toss about touch support.

Forget all the MS marketing speak. 2 in 1s are a stupid product in my and many peoples opinions. If you want a tablet get yourself an android tablet. If you want a "computer" buy a real one.
Click to expand...

Windows 2 in 1s have been around for 15 years and are more popular than ever.

ChadD said:
Surface being better supported according to you has more to do with the HAHA look it runs Linux factor then anything else. lol
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Huh? Weird that a pro-Linux guy is going to bash a situation where it's relatively easy to install Linux a device that it's not really designed for.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 2 in 1s have been around for 15 years and are more popular than ever.
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They've been around for longer than that, I know, I had one 20 years ago and it was a POS. They were shit until the advent of Windows 10 and they're still a compromise.

People buy 2 in 1's because everything's so cheap and they think one day they may use the touch capability - Needless to say, they rarely do.
 
I don't understand the 2 in 1 argument. I've installed linux on 2 in 1's and it works fine.., i've also chrooted linux on tablets and phones, and again it works fine.

Here's an example of when there really isn't linux support:

We've got a CNC plasma cutter at work, and it is only supported by windows (No ELF binary).

It still may even be possible to run it on Linux though.., It's at work where we have plenty of windows machines, so I've never tried messing with it but tools like WINE exist.
 
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tacohunter52 said:
I don't understand the 2 in 1 argument. I've installed linux on 2 in 1's and it works fine.., i've also chrooted linux on tablets and phones, and again it works fine.

Here's an example of when there really isn't linux support:

We've got a CNC plasma cutter at work, and it is only supported by windows (No ELF binary).

It still may even be possible to run it on Linux though.., It's at work where we have plenty of windows machines, so I've never tried messing with it but tools like WINE exist.
Click to expand...

It should work fine, it's just a laptop equipped with a hinge that has a wider range of movement and a touch screen. I don't understand the argument either?!
 
BulletDust said:
They've been around for longer than that, I know, I had one 20 years ago and it was a POS. They were shit until the advent of Windows 10 and they're still a compromise.

People buy 2 in 1's because everything's so cheap and they think one day they may use the touch capability - Needless to say, they rarely do.
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Windows for Pen Computing preceded 2 in 1s but those weren't really convertibles but tablets. At any rate devices that were purposely designed to be convertible were launched with Windows XP Tablet PC Edition. And we can get into the anecdotal stories about how much people use 2 in 1s as tablets. I would have to think that many do simply because of the flood of these kinds of devices that's been going on for some time and with healthy growth. Dell said it's 2 in 1 business was up 48% last quarter. If one isn't going to use a 2 in 1 as a 2 in 1 then as I've always recommended, just get a conventional laptop.
 
tacohunter52 said:
I don't understand the 2 in 1 argument. I've installed linux on 2 in 1's and it works fine.., i've also chrooted linux on tablets and phones, and again it works fine.
Click to expand...

Define works fine? What can you do using only touch with Linux installed on a 2 in 1. Or what kinds of things can you do with ink running Linux.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows for Pen Computing preceded 2 in 1s but those weren't really convertibles but tablets. At any rate devices that were purposely designed to be convertible were launched with Windows XP Tablet PC Edition. And we can get into the anecdotal stories about how much people use 2 in 1s as tablets. I would have to think that many do simply because of the flood of these kinds of devices that's been going on for some time and with healthy growth. Dell said it's 2 in 1 business was up 48% last quarter. If one isn't going to use a 2 in 1 as a 2 in 1 then as I've always recommended, just get a conventional laptop.
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Of course it's up 48%, they're being peddled as the cheap alternative to a laptop.

In the day if my device was a 2 in 1 it would have used the same OS and the OS was rubbish where touch was concerned until Windows 10, now it's a compromise between both desktop and touch necessitating a stylus.
 
heatlesssun said:
Define works fine? What can you do using only touch with Linux installed on a 2 in 1. Or what kinds of things can you do with ink running Linux.
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I don't know what you mean.., basically everything works.

I mean, the fingerprint scanner got borked, but who uses that anyway...
 
BulletDust said:
It should work fine, it's just a laptop equipped with a hinge that has a wider range of movement and a touch screen. I don't understand the argument either?!
Click to expand...

The Surface Pro and devices like it aren't laptops. They are tablets first with an attachable keyboard. Then there are devices like the Yoga, Spector or XPS 13 2 in 1 that have the hinge. Then there are devices like the Surface Book that are laptops with debatable screens. And then there's pen support which is an important element in most 2 in 1s.
 
heatlesssun said:
The Surface Pro and devices like it aren't laptops. They are tablets first with an attachable keyboard. Then there are devices like the Yoga, Spector or XPS 13 2 in 1 that have the hinge. Then there are devices like the Surface Book that are laptops with debatable screens. And then there's pen support which is an important element in most 2 in 1s.
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And I'm fully aware of the differences in devices. However I do not believe pen support is an important element at all. The only person I ever saw use one was my physio, he drew my exercises on the screen and printed them on paper via a laser printer, using up expensive toner and drums - All the while he could have just drawn the damn image on a piece of paper using a real pen and saved money on consumables!

The pen is a gimmick.
 
heatlesssun said:
That's actually far more useful to some than you realize. But what I was mostly referring to is command and control of the device via touch only.
Click to expand...

Yeah, using a pen because the Windows interface isn't ideal considering touch where the desktop interface and fingers are concerned. Hence Windows 10 is a mishmash of both touch and desktop interfaces, great on a tablet, crap on a desktop (and in many instances, not even great on a tablet - Hence the pen).
 
BulletDust said:
However I do not believe pen support is an important element at all.
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Ink has been on Windows devices for two decades and is more popular now than ever. Simply because you don't see the need means that no one does. I use it all the time for note taking, idea mapping and sketching out ideas. And for digital artists, that's a whole other area.
 
BulletDust said:
Yeah, using a pen because the Windows interface isn't ideal considering touch where the desktop interface and fingers are concerned. Hence Windows 10 is a mishmash of both touch and desktop interfaces, great on a tablet, crap on a desktop (and in many instances, not even great on a tablet - Hence the pen).
Click to expand...

Nope. You don't need a pen to use control and navigate Windows 10. Hell I just helped my brother-in-law last week using TeamViewer to remotely create a PDF remotely using on touch from my Surface Pro 3 to a Windows 10 desktop. It does help in apps that aren't touch aware like LibreOffice.
 
heatlesssun said:
Ink has been on Windows devices for two decades and is more popular now than ever. Simply because you don't see the need means that no one does. I use it all the time for note taking, idea mapping and sketching out ideas. And for digital artists, that's a whole other area.
Click to expand...

Likewise, simply because you praise it's necessity after Microsoft tried so hard to peddle it to the public, and failing, for two decades doesn't indicate in the slightest that everyone thinks using a pen is a great idea.
 
heatlesssun said:
Nope. You don't need a pen to use control and navigate Windows 10. Hell I just helped my brother-in-law last week using TeamViewer to remotely create a PDF remotely using on touch from my Surface Pro 3 to a Windows 10 desktop. It does help in apps that aren't touch aware like LibreOffice.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can tell you right now that navigating the desktop interface is a damn site easier with a pointed object. As, naturally, a desktop interface is designed for the superior mouse and keyboard and the pointer controlled by the mouse is a lot sharper than the tip of my finger.
 
BulletDust said:
Likewise, simply because you praise it's necessity after Microsoft tried so hard to peddle it to the public, and failing, for two decades doesn't indicate in the slightest that everyone thinks using a pen is a great idea.
Click to expand...

Also, it doesn't really set Windows apart from Linux, because both OS's can do this stuff.
 
BulletDust said:
Likewise, simply because you praise it's necessity after Microsoft tried so hard to peddle it to the public, and failing, for two decades doesn't indicate in the slightest that everyone thinks using a pen is a great idea.
Click to expand...

Huh? Digital ink is a concept that anyone can implement. It's been around for a long time and it's more popular than ever because we use computing devices for so much now and it's tough to type out mathematical and scientific notation. And yes, draw, something humans have been doing forever.
 
heatlesssun said:
Huh? Digital ink is a concept that anyone can implement. It's been around for a long time and it's more popular than ever because we use computing devices for so much now and it's tough to type out mathematical and scientific notation. And yes, draw, something humans have been doing forever.
Click to expand...

It's been around since Windows 3.1 and I know of no one that wants to draw on their computer screen. Like One Note (in fact directly related to One Note) I know of no one that uses these applications. Not one person.

It's like the desktop all in one's with a touch screen, what a stupid idea!
 
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