Linux is awful...apparently

[tacohunter52]

I do like the touch screens. Not for drawing lol, but I like being able to touch a folder or whatever on the screen when showing someone something.

 

[heatlesssun]

It's been around since Windows 3.1 and I know of no one that wants to draw on their computer screen. Like One Note (in fact directly related to One Note) I know of no one that uses these applications. Not one person.

But you know a lot of people that game under Linux right? And if you've never heard of something means what? OneNote is an amazing tool for dealing information of almost any kind. Technology is complex, no one knows of everything. I don't get why desktop Linux folks feel compelled to know all about everything.

 

[ChadD]

But you know a lot of people that game under Linux right? And if you've never heard of something means what? OneNote is an amazing tool for dealing information of almost any kind. Technology is complex, no one knows of everything. I don't get why desktop Linux folks feel compelled to know all about everything.

What are you on about.... you have picked 2 in 1s as an example of Linux sucking basically. So Bullet and Tacohunter are both attempting to informing you that 2 in 1s are just x86 computers and Linux runs on them fine. I find the entire idea of 2 in 1s pointless and believe its a dead end product that people will grow out of. The Palm pilot says hello from the past.... pen input is NOT what people really want. I had a palm at one time that did a really great job of transposing my hand writing to text. (and even though I can type a good 70+ wpm I got almost as fast with that stupid palm short hand input) Guess what that product and that entire device segment died. As jobs once put it... no one really wants to use 2 hands when one will do.

2 in 1s are a stop gap to more capable smart phones. There for I ignore the entire market completely... as Bullet suggested they are nothing but a MS ploy to claim "mobile" market share when they have none.

Regardless as tacohunter (and yourself in relation to the surface) have pointed out... 2 in 1s do work just fine with linux. You may have to jump through a few hoops to install anything on some of them... but it works just fine. As much as you want to insist its all about pen input... what exactly is the % of 2 in 1s that ship with a pen ? Its stupid low isn't it ? Having said that I have no doubt that if you have a 2 in 1 with a pen and a linux driver programs like Krita do exactly what you would expect them to do.

 

[BulletDust]

But you know a lot of people that game under Linux right? And if you've never heard of something means what? OneNote is an amazing tool for dealing information of almost any kind. Technology is complex, no one knows of everything. I don't get why desktop Linux folks feel compelled to know all about everything.

What?!

As usual, just mindless ranting now.

 

[BulletDust]

I do like the touch screens. Not for drawing lol, but I like being able to touch a folder or whatever on the screen when showing someone something.

Fingerprints all over your monitor...Bugger that!

Mouse works better, I'll use that.

 

[heatlesssun]

Fingerprints all over your monitor...Bugger that!

Mouse works better, I'll use that.

That's why God invented micro fiber cloth and hand sanitizer. I wipe down my tablets once a day and that's it, probably a lot cleaner than mice and keyboards that don't get cleaned on a regular basis.

 

[ChadD]

That's why God invented micro fiber cloth and hand sanitizer. I wipe down my tablets once a day and that's it, probably a lot cleaner than mice and keyboards that don't get cleaned on a regular basis.

I don't have to see my UI through the finger prints on my mouse.

What I hate the most about touch screens.... is how my sisters kids come over and think they can touch my expensive TV... or want to lean and touch things on my monitor. AHHH its not a freaking phone. lol

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't have to see my UI through the finger prints on my mouse.

Neither do I as I keep my tablet screens clean. It's a lot easier to keep gorilla glass clean than a typical monitor.

What I hate the most about touch screens.... is how my sisters kids come over and think they can touch my expensive TV... or want to lean and touch things on my monitor. AHHH its not a freaking phone. lol

As much as some don't like the idea of touch on a PC it's a natural way to interact with a device. We can go back and forth with anecdotes but I know a number of people with Windows 2 in 1 devices these days and they tend to like the touch features. Plus it's hard to imagine that OEMs would be making so many of them these days if they weren't doing well.

 

[auntjemima]

Cause most people running Linux could give a toss about touch support.

Forget all the MS marketing speak. 2 in 1s are a stupid product in my and many peoples opinions. If you want a tablet get yourself an android tablet. If you want a "computer" buy a real one.

Surface being better supported according to you has more to do with the HAHA look it runs Linux factor then anything else. lol

Alright then...

Here is an extremely big issue with Linux people in general. I am VERY surprised to see you with this attitude, as you are usually levelheaded.

Here is a user that states they installed Linux on a two in one. It worked for them except for a single issue, touch. Instead of trying to FIX it, or make suggestions, you head right for the "Who cares? Linux guys hate touch anyways!". If you want to attract users to your operating system so you can some day have a decent market share and get all those AAA games to make it competitive, you cannot have this attitude.

You are not everyone. Some people want touch. Some people want one click installs. Some people want VR and some people like 2in1's and may want to install Linux on it.

Instead of replying with "Lol, that feature is stupid, so who cares?", Look at it for what it is. SOMEONE cares about that issue, so advance the OS for all to enjoy.

You guys need to stop replying to the person and start replying to the issues within that OS. Whenever an issue comes out, especially if it's Heatlesssun, you all reply with him being a shill. At the end of the day he has tried, and had some success, installing Linux on devices you all claim cannot be done AND got things working until Linux, VR, that is pretty uncommon.

Reply to the topic, not the person. You guys are ridiculous for this.

 

[tacohunter52]

The touch works fine when you install linux on a 2 in 1 though, so that entire debate is nonsensical. In fact, I've installed linux on lots of different devices with touch screens, and the touch always works...

 

[heatlesssun]

The issue with 2 in 1s under Linux isn't touch hardware not working but with touch awareness in applications.

 

[tacohunter52]

The issue with 2 in 1s under Linux isn't touch hardware not working but with touch awareness in applications.

... you mean like you want developers to put swipe gestures in every application?

 

[BulletDust]

The issue with 2 in 1s under Linux isn't touch hardware not working but with touch awareness in applications.

Thank Gawd for that!

It's predominantly a desktop OS, I want touch nowhere near it just like I want touch nowhere near my Windows machine.

If people want touch, that's fine, but touch and desktop should be segregated. When I install Windows I should have the option for touch, desktop or both. Likewise, if people want software applications biased towards touch, the interface needs to be selectable as I don't want some 'large' UI geared towards the application of greasy fingers like the one used under Edge or the new 'settings panel'.

Don't get me wrong, my Android based touch devices are the best things ever, but I want touch nowhere near my desktop and it appears as if someone's exaggerating the lack of touch awareness under Linux if tacho's comments and experiences with Linux on touch devices are anything to go by.

As stated, my physio is the only person I've seen use ink under Windows - And it was wasteful when he could easily have used paper and a real pen.

The application of touch under Windows on the desktop is pure marketing. Microsoft are losing badly in the mobile market place, so let's design a desktop OS where they're forced to use touch on the desktop, get them familiar with the use of the interface by mashing it all together, then when the time comes to buy a mobile device they'll hopefully select a Microsoft device as they're already used to the interface.

 

[ChadD]

Alright then...

Here is an extremely big issue with Linux people in general. I am VERY surprised to see you with this attitude, as you are usually levelheaded.

Here is a user that states they installed Linux on a two in one. It worked for them except for a single issue, touch. Instead of trying to FIX it, or make suggestions, you head right for the "Who cares? Linux guys hate touch anyways!". If you want to attract users to your operating system so you can some day have a decent market share and get all those AAA games to make it competitive, you cannot have this attitude.

You are not everyone. Some people want touch. Some people want one click installs. Some people want VR and some people like 2in1's and may want to install Linux on it.

Instead of replying with "Lol, that feature is stupid, so who cares?", Look at it for what it is. SOMEONE cares about that issue, so advance the OS for all to enjoy.

You guys need to stop replying to the person and start replying to the issues within that OS. Whenever an issue comes out, especially if it's Heatlesssun, you all reply with him being a shill. At the end of the day he has tried, and had some success, installing Linux on devices you all claim cannot be done AND got things working until Linux, VR, that is pretty uncommon.

Reply to the topic, not the person. You guys are ridiculous for this.

Well fair enough... perhaps I need a snickers today.

In the case of heatle complaining about touch.... I have just been around the bush with him before. With him acting like Linux should install on a MICROSOFT made hardware device and out of the box with out having to tweak things run like the OS that hardware was designed to use. Linux is never going to install easy peasy on a MS hardware device and just work. Everyone seems to understand why that may be except heatle it seems. As others with 2 in 1s have said they haven't had any issue installing Linux and touch works just fine. The main issue with some of the inexpensive 2 in 1s is they use odd ball touch sensors without kernel support. Its not like Linux doesn't support touch by default or something... Android is running a Linux kernel and Linux kernel drivers for the touch sensors in android phones/tablets. His issues with "linux desktop" software as he calls it not working with touch are also complete BS. Libre office works just fine with touch... yet every time he gets a chance Heatle likes to fud things up saying it doesn't and office touch support is superior somehow. Which has been refuted by multiple people in these forums that are running Linux on their touch screen devices.

In any event your right he has claimed to attempt to install Linux on his Micorosft hardware.... good on him. The main issue is he uses it to make his point that Linux isn't ready for joe average user because he didn't have a smooth install on such a device. Which it seems to me most people consider to be a bit of a crazy argument. Its not different then claiming OSX is garbage because he couldn't hackintosh his surface device with one click.

Your right though I did over generalise. Most of the Linux users I deal with are either my clients and their employees in work settings and yes they don't care about touch in my experience. Or Linux coder / system admin type people that in my experience also don't care about touch all that much. Its not that it doesn't work I just don't really get the point. I do know that is just my experience. Perhaps heatle is right and their are millions of people right now loving up their touch screen laptops.... its possible. I haven't seen them but I could always be wrong its not never happened.

 

[ChadD]

The issue with 2 in 1s under Linux isn't touch hardware not working but with touch awareness in applications.

WHAT THE hell do you mean already by touch awareness. Cause I have installed Linux on client laptops with touch... and after setting the system fonts to an actual usable size for the screens, nothing seemed to not work to me. If you wanted to touch the x or a menu drop down everything worked just fine in GTK and QT software. On the systems I worked on it seemed to work pretty much like a second mouse... is that not how its supposed to work ? What specific software are you talking about that doesn't work ?

 

[ChadD]

... you mean like you want developers to put swipe gestures in every application?

I didn't get down to this reply... lol. I guess if that is it OK ? lol

 

[Dan_D]

The software list is retarded because virtually all of that software is for professional content creators, not the average Joe who doesn't use that shit.

 

[BulletDust]

In any event your right he has claimed to attempt to install Linux on his Micorosft hardware.... good on him.

The software list is retarded because virtually all of that software is for professional content creators, not the average Joe who doesn't use that shit.

And yet how difficult it is for the Linux haters to understand this simple fact. Furthermore, the alternate software that is available is of outstanding quality and perfectly suited to average Joe who used to use pirated Adobe products anyway.

 

[heatlesssun]

WHAT THE hell do you mean already by touch awareness. Cause I have installed Linux on client laptops with touch... and after setting the system fonts to an actual usable size for the screens, nothing seemed to not work to me. If you wanted to touch the x or a menu drop down everything worked just fine in GTK and QT software. On the systems I worked on it seemed to work pretty much like a second mouse... is that not how its supposed to work ? What specific software are you talking about that doesn't work ?

So on these systems did you ever setup a touch screen keyboard, touch screen mouse, handwriting input. How does LibreOffice or whatever office suite work with touch? Any kind of touch or ink aware note taking applications? Any causal touch aware games? One on the problems with Windows on tablets before Windows 8 is that it Windows had support for touch to some degree in Vista and quite a bit more in Windows 7 but there were still very few touch aware applications. It's still a problem with Windows 10 but significantly better.

I do find it odd how you have completely discounted touch and 2 in 1s and now say "Linux is just fine with touch and 2 in 1s".

 

[BulletDust]

So on these systems did you ever setup a touch screen keyboard, touch screen mouse, handwriting input. How does LibreOffice or whatever office suite work with touch? Any kind of touch or ink aware note taking applications? Any causal touch aware games? One on the problems with Windows on tablets before Windows 8 is that it Windows had support for touch to some degree in Vista and quite a bit more in Windows 7 but there were still very few touch aware applications. It's still a problem with Windows 10 but significantly better.

I do find it odd how you have completely discounted touch and 2 in 1s and now say "Linux is just fine with touch and 2 in 1s".

Well Linux does work fine with touch on 2 in 1's?! How hard is this to understand?

Your argument seems to be based solely around the fact that Libreoffice does not have ink support - Which affects almost no one, except yourself.

Is the ink standard an open standard or do MS own it?

 

[heatlesssun]

And yet how difficult it is for the Linux haters to understand this simple fact. Furthermore, the alternate software that is available is of outstanding quality and perfectly suited to average Joe who used to use pirated Adobe products anyway.

It's not a matter of hatting anything. It's just that yes, there are big software gaps with Linux, gaming is a big one. Plus almost all of the good open source client apps are cross platform. So use Windows and get access to virtually all desktop software or use Linux and get access to some of it.

 

[auntjemima]

Well Linux does work fine with touch on 2 in 1's?! How hard is this to understand?

Your argument seems to be based solely around the fact that Libreoffice does not have ink support - Which affects almost no one, except yourself.

Is the ink standard an open standard or do MS own it?

That is YOUR opinion. If it wasn't used, they wouldm't waste time developing it. Microsoft drops programs left and right and yet OneNote has been around for ages. Get off your high horse and thinking you speak for everyone.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well Linux does work fine with touch on 2 in 1's?! How hard is this to understand?

Your argument seems to be based solely around the fact that Libreoffice does not have ink support - Which affects almost no one, except yourself.

Is the ink standard an open standard or do MS own it?

You can't just say stuff works fine and then ignore specific points. LibreOffice is just one thing. Again, it's odd to see people argue so vehemently against 2 in 1s and then say "Linux works just fine on 2 in 1s." when it's pretty clear that people aren't using something constantly that don't even like.

 

[tacohunter52]

So on these systems did you ever setup a touch screen keyboard, touch screen mouse, handwriting input. How does LibreOffice or whatever office suite work with touch? Any kind of touch or ink aware note taking applications? Any causal touch aware games? One on the problems with Windows on tablets before Windows 8 is that it Windows had support for touch to some degree in Vista and quite a bit more in Windows 7 but there were still very few touch aware applications. It's still a problem with Windows 10 but significantly better.

I do find it odd how you have completely discounted touch and 2 in 1s and now say "Linux is just fine with touch and 2 in 1s".

They do have a touch screen keyboard, It is called Florence.

Don't know what you mean by touch screen mouse.., If you mean you can touch the screen for click, then yes it has that to.

As for the handwriting input.., ardesia

 

[BulletDust]

It's not a matter of hatting anything. It's just that yes, there are big software gaps with Linux, gaming is a big one. Plus almost all of the good open source client apps are cross platform. So use Windows and get access to virtually all desktop software or use Linux and get access to some of it.

The problem is that you haters (I'm not going to call you Windows users, as I'm a Windows user myself) don't use Linux on a daily basis, and don't try to claim you do, because it's blatantly obvious you do not. You really have no idea just how easy it is for most to perform their daily tasks under an OS that isn't Windows, as a direct result of this issue you generalise and exaggerate software support under Linux when there really is none.

You're hating simply to hate. You're being negative, just to be negative.

 

[BulletDust]

You can't just say stuff works fine and then ignore specific points. LibreOffice is just one thing. Again, it's odd to see people argue so vehemently against 2 in 1s and then say "Linux works just fine on 2 in 1s." when it's pretty clear that people aren't using something constantly that don't even like.

So tell MS to open up ink support to other suites....?

I can't believe you're still trying to claim that Linux doesn't work under 2 in 1's simply due to ink support - A technology that very few even use.

When did I say I don't like 2 in 1's?

 

[auntjemima]

The problem is that you haters (I'm not going to call you Windows users, as I'm a Windows user myself) don't use Linux on a daily basis, and don't try to claim you do, because it's blatantly obvious you do not. You really have no idea just how easy it is for most to perform their daily tasks under an OS that isn't Windows, as a direct result of this issue you generalise and exaggerate software support under Linux when there really is none.

You're hating simply to hate. You're being negative, just to be negative.

Did you really just say that Linux has no software support issues? For you, maybe not, but for others, as demonstrated here, there are. YOU. ARE. NOT. EVERYONE.

 

[BulletDust]

Did you really just say that Linux has no software support issues? For you, maybe not, but for others, as demonstrated here, there are. YOU. ARE. NOT. EVERYONE.

If you read the post, I referred to most, not everyone and I never referred to myself.

Heatlesssun is the one that refers to himself like he makes up the voice of the masses.

Most people have very simplistic needs, their needs are more than covered by Linux. We now live in a world where dependance on Microsoft is becoming less necessary. You have taken my comment on software support totally out of context.

 

[tacohunter52]

You guys do realize that software supporting an operating system, really has nothing to do with the operating system...

It is up to software developers to write portable code.., which is a whole different story.

 

[heatlesssun]

They do have a touch screen keyboard, It is called Florence.

Don't know what you mean by touch screen mouse.., If you mean you can touch the screen for click, then yes it has that to.

As for the handwriting input.., ardesia

There are various tools for these things. They aren't nearly as capable or well integrated as what's in the box in Windows 10. Windows 10 supports a touch screen track pad, something that's been done in 3rd party tools before, for those times when you have to have a mouse. Comes in handy when projecting a second screen without a keyboard.

EDIT: I've heard of Florence, something one of these days I need to try. I'd never heard of Ardesia, I don't believe that it's an analog to the handwriting input capability of the Windows tablet input panel.

 

[BulletDust]

There are various tools for these things. They aren't nearly as capable or well integrated as what's in the box in Windows 10. Windows 10 supports a touch screen track pad, something that's been done in 3rd party tools before, for those times when you have to have a mouse. Comes in handy when projecting a second screen without a keyboard.

But....That's got nothing to do with the OS?!

 

[tacohunter52]

There are various tools for these things. They aren't nearly as capable or well integrated as what's in the box in Windows 10.

This is, for the most part, untrue and distribution dependent.

Also, touchegg makes your touchscreen recognize swipe gestures like a touchpad.

Edit: Alternative software exists for just about everything.

Here is where, in my experience, Linux falls short:

Gaming, although I play games on linux sometimes. I just recently finished metro last light, and sometimes I play Kerbal on my kali disto lol.

Industrial Machinery: We've got a lot of heavy machinery at work that was only developed for windows.

Otherwise there really isnt much that windows can do that Linux can't.., but there is a fair amount going the other way. (Or at least it's way more frusterating on windows)

 

[auntjemima]

If you read the post, I referred to most, not everyone and I never referred to myself.

Heatlesssun is the one that refers to himself like he makes up the voice of the masses.

Most people have very simplistic needs, their needs are more than covered by Linux. We now live in a world where dependance on Microsoft is becoming less necessary. You have taken my comment on software support totally out of context.

I quoted that specific comment, yes. I based my reply on your inability to see Linux has issues. You continuously say "most" when you answer for Linux users. Your experience isn't MOST. Having 5 regular experienced Linux users on the forums and answering for them does not make it MOST. You have a user here that tells you they have an issue. You reply attempting to make it a non-issue because 1) you have never experienced it, 2) he is an idiot shill, 3) Linux users don't want XYZ feature.

If a new user comes to the OS and they come here and say "Hey, guys, I have this issue. I really like this cool feature I used to use, but I cannot find a replacement for Linux! Can you help?" and you reply with one of your usual three responses, that market share you blow out of proportion every month will never rise.

 

[BulletDust]

I quoted that specific comment, yes. I based my reply on your inability to see Linux has issues. You continuously say "most" when you answer for Linux users. Your experience isn't MOST. Having 5 regular experienced Linux users on the forums and answering for them does not make it MOST. You have a user here that tells you they have an issue. You reply attempting to make it a non-issue because 1) you have never experienced it, 2) he is an idiot shill, 3) Linux users don't want XYZ feature.

If a new user comes to the OS and they come here and say "Hey, guys, I have this issue. I really like this cool feature I used to use, but I cannot find a replacement for Linux! Can you help?" and you reply with one of your usual three responses, that market share you blow out of proportion every month will never rise.

I deal with most every day. I'm not posting my own experiences, I'm posting what I experience through the individuals I assist every day in my line of work.

Heatlesssun believes ink software support is an issue under Linux, those people of all walks of life that I deal with don't even know what ink is - Therefore a Linux hater (not Windows user) is generalising and exaggerating a software support issue that really does not exist as the popularity of the technology in question is not in widespread use at all, and it appears to be better supported than misinformed due to a lack of Linux experience Heatlesssun believes it to be if Tacho is to be believed.

You nitpick my postings methodically looking for flaws, when you believe you find a flaw it's usually yourself taking my posting totally out of context due to the fact that you're looking so hard for flaws in the first place.

Relax.

 

[BulletDust]

Otherwise there really isnt much that windows can do that Linux can't.., but there is a fair amount going the other way. (Or at least it's way more frusterating on windows)

This is so the point I am trying to make. Well said.

 

[heatlesssun]

This is, for the most part, untrue and distribution dependent.

Also, touchegg makes your touchscreen recognize swipe gestures like a touchpad.

So which Linux distro would you consider the best one to use on a 2 in 1 device? And I don't believe that touchegg isn't a touchscreen mouse pad. Gesture control add ons like this have been available for Windows forever.

Edit: Alternative software exists for just about everything.

And that software is often cross platform. People are often mentioning alternative software in these Linux threads and frequently there's a native Windows version. I don't think some get how alternative software argument isn't always a great argument when one can go download, install and test this alternative software without having to use that's being promoted in that argument.

 

[heatlesssun]

I deal with most every day. I'm not posting my own experiences, I'm posting what I experience through the individuals I assist every day in my line of work.

Heatlesssun believes ink software support is an issue under Linux, those people of all walks of life that I deal with don't even know what ink is - Therefore a Linux hater (not Windows user) is generalising and exaggerating a software support issue that really does not exist as the popularity of the technology in question is not in widespread use at all, and it appears to be better supported than misinformed due to a lack of Linux experience Heatlesssun believes it to be if Tacho is to be believed.

You nitpick my postings methodically looking for flaws, when you believe you find a flaw it's usually yourself taking my posting totally out of context due to the fact that you're looking so hard for flaws in the first place.

Relax.

What does any of this have to do with functionality? Just because someone doesn't understand the capability of the device they are using has nothing to do with how well something works or doesn't.

No biggie. It's just hilarious to see someone trying to have it 32 different ways. 2 in 1s suck. But hey 2 in 1s work fine under Linux and I don't know anyone who uses OneNote.

 

[BulletDust]

LOL! What does any of this have to do with functionality? Just because someone doesn't understand the capability of the device they are using has nothing to do with how well something works or doesn't.

The issue Heatlesssun is that they have no use for the technology. If they could see an outrageous practical benefit to it, they'd make use of it, but very few use the touchscreen on their 2 in 1 let alone a pen. Most just whine over the fact that they were swayed into buying a top heavy 2 in 1 that doesn't sit well in their lap on uneven surfaces and lacks connectivity with a very, very fragile and difficult to repair screen.

 

[BulletDust]

And that software is often cross platform. People are often mentioning alternative software in these Linux threads and frequently there's a native Windows version. I don't think some get how alternative software argument isn't always a great argument when one can go download, install and test this alternative software without having to use that's being promoted in that argument.

Because the whole idea is to distance one's self from Windows, therefore the fact that alternative software is also available under the Windows platform is of little importance to such users....

 

[tacohunter52]

So which Linux distro would you consider the best one to use on a 2 in 1 device?

That is a matter of preference honestly. I like Debian based distros usually (not ubuntu though, because I don't like unity) My go to has always been plain old debian, because it is lightweight, and I like to just install whatever packages I want on my own. If you want something that is more of a one click install, maybe Mint.

Are you saying you want the mouse to act like a trackpad? Like you move the pointer around a second screen using the first screen (screens being extended)

Software being cross platform goes back to software support not being dependant on the OS, but devs making portable software. That said, I can name a lot of software that I can use on Linux, that you will not find on Windows. I can also do it vice versa, and for OSX.

In all honesty, if you know what you are doing, you can get most things running on any os. The main exception being gaming...