• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Linux is awful...apparently

Status
Not open for further replies.
BulletDust said:
I'm finding more and more workplaces turning to the Google Apps suite as opposed to MS Office, less issues, none of the ongoing licensing costs, platform independant.

We live in an age now where, more and more, Microsoft products aren't as necessary as they once were. Most of the time people stick with them out of blind fear of change.
Click to expand...
edit in a high speed thread: You're right -

Chrome Enterprise: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not 100% it's good for the consumer, or Linux, but it certainly is an attack at the status quo.
 
Last edited:
heatlesssun said:
Seems like you have no idea that what I was talking about and got working with Linux in spite of the hate.
Click to expand...
I think it's a plenty helpful community. Possibly not always in the [H], but such communities are certainly accessible.
 
BulletDust said:
Oh how I miss RadioShack....

Reclaiming devices is an awesome feeling. Currently restoring a Commodore 1084S monitor for my C64, I've removed the flyback and the HoT transistor and cleaned everything up, the Hot has arrived and has been soldered in place, still awaiting the flyback. I can't wait to fire it up again, feels like Christmas!

My Linux gaming experience is great, five years ago it didn't exist at all, three years ago it was growing, now there's more games than I have time for. No complaints regarding gaming and Linux here - Gamers come in all shapes and sizes, all with different wants and needs.
Click to expand...
Could you do a "build thread" about restoring the monitor? I'm not sure where to place it on the [H], but I'd be interested in seeing it and your description of the process. (even though it's half done.. I assume) If not, hijack a Linux thread.. they're just for bickering mostly anyway. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
Frobozz said:
I think it's a plenty helpful community. Possibly not always in the [H], but such communities are certainly accessible.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I got Linux working with the Vive from the information on Phoronix. I guess what I find most interesting about these debates is that I'm a person that actually does use Windows for reasons that simply aren't available under desktop Linux. I don't have zillions of issues with Windows updates of this or that or the other. Windows just works on the desktop for where Linux can't, even with the gurus around here. But hey, desktop Linux will work for the McDonald's crowd until Linux folks tell them how fucking stupid they are. Brilliant!
 
heatlesssun said:
Indeed. I got Linux working with the Vive from the information on Phoronix. I guess what I find most interesting about these debates is that I'm a person that actually does use Windows for reasons that simply aren't available under desktop Linux. I don't have zillions of issues with Windows updates of this or that or the other. Windows just works on the desktop for where Linux can't, even with the gurus around here. But hey, desktop Linux will work for the McDonald's crowd until Linux folks tell them how fucking stupid they are. Brilliant!
Click to expand...

Soo.. What type of response could I offer to that?
 
Frobozz said:
Soo.. What type of response could I offer to that?
Click to expand...

It's not worth offering a response to that, the resulting frustration just isn't worth the hassle of an acknowledgement.


Frobozz said:
Could you do a "build thread" about restoring the monitor? I'm not sure where to place it on the [H], but I'd be interested in seeing it and your description of the process. (even though it's half done.. I assume) If not, hijack a Linux thread.. they're just for bickering mostly anyway. ;)
Click to expand...

I would, if I knew where to put it! You can see a bit of the work involved here:

https://hardforum.com/threads/the-enduring-legacy-of-zork.1942586/page-2

The 'Hakko compatible' iron I speak of (on top of the Royel desoldering station):

RIKWXblh.jpg
 
Last edited:
Frobozz said:
Soo.. What type of response could I offer to that?
Click to expand...

Plenty fair. If there's something super awesome about desktop Linux and everything I do works I've been blasted enough over the years and the fine gurus never bothered to mention it. That said, I've said plenty of times that for basic needs that Linux can be fine. For some reason though, some Linux folks have a problem getting that the things that don't use don't work well or at all under Linux.
 
BulletDust said:
It's not worth offering a response to that, the resulting frustration just isn't worth the hassle of an acknowledgement.
Click to expand...

Not at all. Desktop Linux has is faults and there's just plenty that doesn't work well under Linux on the desktop. Not that hard for realists.
 
heatlesssun said:
Plenty fair. If there's something super awesome about desktop Linux and everything I do works I've been blasted enough over the years and the fine gurus never bothered to mention it. That said, I've said plenty of times that for basic needs that Linux can be fine. For some reason though, some Linux folks have a problem getting that the things that don't use don't work well or at all under Linux.
Click to expand...

I use Linux, I don't have basic needs.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not at all. Desktop Linux has is faults and there's just plenty that doesn't work well under Linux on the desktop. Not that hard for realists.
Click to expand...

See, coming from someone that uses Linux every single day, I'm not seeing these faults you speak of.
 
There's a few things that keep my main computer on Windows.

Games - Pubg, squad, and Wow are my poison of choice. Wow comes close with generally ok wine support but keeping it running is a challenge. Generally everything breaks with new versions of wow are released.

Work - A surprising amount of my work tools have Linux support, a few don't. I can do just about anything I need to as a DBA in Linux. It's mostly an Oracle environment so it plays nice with the right distribution. We rely on Office though and are a Microsoft house so unless I want to run everything on the web in the office 365 portal, my workstation Linux time is spent in a vm inside windows.

Home productivity - I could main Linux easily.

Travel - I prefer my 2014 MacBook Pro. I use an iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch so having the continuity between those while I'm on the road is nice.

Like Bulletdust said, use what works for you. At the end of the day, who gives a shit what others think of YOUR computers.
 
AltTabbins said:
Travel - I prefer my 2014 MacBook Pro. I use an iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch so having the continuity between those while I'm on the road is nice.
Click to expand...

This is a big reason why I stick with Android, Android actually works better driver wise under Linux than it does under WIndows. Apple iDevices, however, are useless under Linux.

Having said that, as a user of Windows macOS and Linux, I find macOS to be so similar to Linux it's uncanny - Especially my Ubuntu MATE install. Yet people will claim that Linux suffers from UI issues and requires too much use of the terminal, but my Ubuntu MATE install is literally identical in terms of UI and terminal usage?! No one ever disputes such a fact, it's always Linux vs Windows?

The only thing seperating Linux from macOS is Adobe and iDevices. As far as gaming is concerned, I believe Linux holds more promise with platforms designed for more than just sleek looks that are expandable as well as affordable, Vulkan support and better drivers (yes, Mesa is getting that good).
 
heatlesssun said:
We use PCs in vastly different ways. You don't have two different VR systems running under Linux for one.
Click to expand...

I never disputed we don't, but you aren't the entire computing population. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that you use Windows.
 
BulletDust said:
I never disputed we don't, but you aren't the entire computing population. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that you use Windows.
Click to expand...

I never said I was. But stuff like Linux gaming isn't either. All I've ever said is that people want to do what they want to do. If Linux on the desktop could do that without its well understood issues, we'd all be using desktop Linux.
 
heatlesssun said:
I never said I was. But stuff like Linux gaming isn't either. All I've ever said is that people want to do what they want to do. If Linux on the desktop could do that without its well understood issues, we'd all be using desktop Linux.
Click to expand...

I don't agree that there is any issue with Linux on the desktop. But we've been over this time and time again - This is the reason you get blasted, not just because you use Windows. You refuse to accept alternate points of view to your own fairly unique scenario.
 
BulletDust said:
I don't agree that there is any issue with Linux on the desktop.
Click to expand...

There's plenty of issues when you do the things I do. If you consider that a niche that's fine. Windows handles the niche stuff and everything else. Windows is simply by far the best supported desktop OS because of its market share. Just like Windows on phones sucks because, market share. It's pretty simple stuff.
 
heatlesssun said:
There's plenty of issues when you do the things I do. If you consider that a niche that's fine. Windows handles the niche stuff and everything else. Windows is simply by far the best supported desktop OS because of its market share. Just like Windows on phones sucks because, market share. It's pretty simple stuff.
Click to expand...
I can understand where you're coming from, but... What do you want? Do you want the linux sub forum closed? Every thread about a linux update to have a caveat "but windows is better at blah blah"? We could probably scrape together enough change to make Microsoft a trophy or something...
 
heatlesssun said:
There's plenty of issues when you do the things I do. If you consider that a niche that's fine. Windows handles the niche stuff and everything else. Windows is simply by far the best supported desktop OS because of its market share. Just like Windows on phones sucks because, market share. It's pretty simple stuff.
Click to expand...

Heatlesssun, not again.

I'm tired of this shit, I'm tired of the constant repetition every time there is a thread on the flawed opinions of Windows users regarding Linux. If Windows works great for you, congratulations, continue to use Windows.

Honestly, I'd prefer to drag the thread off topic discussing electronics repair with Frobozz than go down this path again, let it go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
Frobozz said:
I can understand where you're coming from, but... What do you want? Do you want the linux sub forum closed? Every thread about a linux update to have a caveat "but windows is better at blah blah"? We could probably scrape together enough change to make Microsoft a trophy or something...
Click to expand...

I could ask you the same thing about every Windows thread. Go read some. It's the same Linux guys in there saying "had you used Linux...". Get over yourself.
 
Lunar said:
So, here's a dumpster fire of an article, that I wouldn't normally post a link to, but what was surprising about it to me is the source. The article is on makeuseof, which I've typically seen to contain pro Linux and open source content. So, I'm sharing this to get everyone else's thoughts. Please no war.

On a related note, I'm also a cord cutter, and I've noticed a multitude of anti cord cutting articles with points as "well thought out" as this one. It makes me wonder if the companies that own these sites have some kind of ulterior motive behind articles like this.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/forget-linux-use-windows/
Click to expand...

There are terrible articles like that everywhere. There could have perhaps made 2 poignant arguments, but they even failed there. Drivers, Peripherals and Games can all be problems for Linux, but hardly to the point where someone shouldn't use it. And honestly, every year the gap closes on those three areas anyway. The rest of the points were just flat out dumb, but that was to be expected of an article that had practically no actual information in it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
NoOther said:
There are terrible articles like that everywhere. There could have perhaps made 2 poignant arguments, but they even failed there. Drivers, Peripherals and Games can all be problems for Linux, but hardly to the point where someone shouldn't use it. And honestly, every year the gap closes on those three areas anyway. The rest of the points were just flat out dumb, but that was to be expected of an article that had practically no actual information in it.
Click to expand...

Linux can work for many people on the desktop but support is still a huge issue. There are more Linux games than ever but that's also true of Windows and the gap is only getting bigger. Hardware support for things like 2 in 1s which are now a big deal just really isn't there for Linux.
 
BulletDust said:
Heatlesssun, not again.

I'm tired of this shit, I'm tired of the constant repetition every time there is a thread on the flawed opinions of Windows users regarding Linux. If Windows works great for you, congratulations, continue to use Windows.

Honestly, I'd prefer to drag the thread off topic discussing electronics repair with Frobozz than go down this path again, let it go.
Click to expand...

Everything has its problems including desktop Linux. If it were as perfect as you say no one would use Windows.
 
heatlesssun said:
Linux can work for many people on the desktop but support is still a huge issue. There are more Linux games than ever but that's also true of Windows and the gap is only getting bigger. Hardware support for things like 2 in 1s which are now a big deal just really isn't there for Linux.
Click to expand...

True, but support has come a long way. The very nature of what makes Linux great, also makes it fairly easy to find support for a wide variety of things. Linux is a community project and thus there is a community effort in supporting the many facets of Linux. There are always going to be issues supporting certain peripherals, especially multi-function devices, but it's not the black hole it once was. There are also far more companies that are dedicated to providing Linux drivers or working with the open source community so they can release drivers.

My point is really that the article makes it seem like the Linux experience is terrible, and I think that is simply disingenuous. One could easily point out many things that could make the Windows experience seem terrible. The truth of the matter is an OS is largely what you make of it based on your needs. It is a tool, once you learn how to use the tool properly, it can be very effective. Some tools are easier to configure for various tasks than others. Some tools are made to be simple out of the box. Too often people make the OS of their choice into some religion instead of seeing it for what it is, a simple tool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
NoOther said:
My point is really that the article makes it seem like the Linux experience is terrible, and I think that is simply disingenuous. One could easily point out many things that could make the Windows experience seem terrible. The truth of the matter is an OS is largely what you make of it based on your needs. It is a tool, once you learn how to use the tool properly, it can be very effective. Some tools are easier to configure for various tasks than others. Some tools are made to be simple out of the box. Too often people make the OS of their choice into some religion instead of seeing it for what it is, a simple tool.
Click to expand...

I think the summation in the article if pretty fair at a high level:

Look, Linux isn’t all bad. If you a tech-savvy person who loves to tinker, you’ll probably have great fun using it. It’s more secure than Windows and in many ways, it’s more customizable.

However, if you’re the type of user who likes to press the power button and have everything just work smoothly and without hiccups, you should give it a wide berth. If you think Windows occasionally gives you a headache, you haven’t seen anything yet.
Click to expand...


Of course that dig at the end will not go well with a lot of Linux users that see Linux as easier to use than Windows. But I think most of those who think that are Linux experts.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think the summation in the article if pretty fair at a high level:

Of course that dig at the end will not go well with a lot of Linux users that see Linux as easier to use than Windows. But I think most of those who think that are Linux experts.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I find it completely disingenuous. They come from the starting point that Linux is virtually unusable for the novice to average user and I find that to be complete and utter bullshit. There are plenty of Linux distributions made for the express purpose of catering to the novice to average user. It takes very little more knowledge than if they started out with Windows. And honestly, I would say that someone being taught Linux first, would find it easy enough and would greatly benefit form that experience.

I can't tell you how much trouble I have had teaching long time Unix/Linux users how to use Windows. To this day my dad still hasn't figure out how to use Windows and he has been trying for over 20 years. It all comes down to experience and patience. The truth is my dad doesn't really want to learn how to use Windows, he uses it because he has to. The sad fact is I built him an easy to use Ubuntu system in place of his Windows work laptop for him to take to conferences and run his presentations. But even with that system he had trouble because almost his entire experience is based on Sun MicroSystems and Solaris.

Again, its all about the learning to use the tool. Linux will work fine for most novice and average users. There are about as many hiccups as using Windows. Windows is generally easier for most people today because they run into information about it or have had to use it in some form or another everywhere. But that doesn't make Linux less user friendly, nor does it make the information any harder to find. In fact, I have found in some ways finding information on how to do something in Linux easier to find and follow than some information on how to do things in Windows. It all just depends on the situation and what you are looking for.

It has been my experience that most people find what they like and just decide to stick to that. In my career however, I have had to learn countless different OS's, GUIs, overlays, shells, etc. I never really started out just learning one thing or another. I learned to use a wide distribution of systems and learned their positives and negatives early on. Now I approach most systems with that experience and perspective and I can recognize their values for what they are without having to lambast every negative aspect of them.
 
I looked over the article and while I do think linux sucks its for none of the reason listed. The author seems to forget an OS is a tool, you should pick the appropriate tool for the job. He is looking for an all in one solution and mistakenly thinking windows is an all in 1 solution. Its not, you can't touch multiple operating systems in any meaningful way and think any OS is a solution for everything.
 
heatlesssun said:
Whatever one you want to mention is probably Windows compatible.
Click to expand...

Of course it is... as I have said If I contribute code to an open source project I don't give a shit what OS you run. The code is open and free.... if you want to compile it into a .exe file go to it. lol
 
ChadD said:
Of course it is... as I have said If I contribute code to an open source project I don't give a shit what OS you run. The code is open and free.... if you want to compile it into a .exe file go to it. lol
Click to expand...

Wait...but then you will likely need to get it signed by Microsoft so it won't get blacklisted in their system...
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
Frobozz said:
I think it's a plenty helpful community. Possibly not always in the [H], but such communities are certainly accessible.
Click to expand...

We are helpful around these parts as well...

However most of us hit [H] for fun, so if you start your call for help with "X or Y sucks" or Screw this bloody crap.... I may if I know how to help post some advice. However if your response is screw that crap or... F it I already wiped my drive it sucks. If I respond it won't be in a nice tone. :)
 
heatlesssun said:
Indeed. I got Linux working with the Vive from the information on Phoronix. I guess what I find most interesting about these debates is that I'm a person that actually does use Windows for reasons that simply aren't available under desktop Linux. I don't have zillions of issues with Windows updates of this or that or the other. Windows just works on the desktop for where Linux can't, even with the gurus around here. But hey, desktop Linux will work for the McDonald's crowd until Linux folks tell them how fucking stupid they are. Brilliant!
Click to expand...

Again we have been around this bush a few times. I haven't seen any Linux person around here suggesting anyone that really really wants AAA games or VR right now run anything other then windows. Just because windows does VR doesn't mean I am going to ever suggest anyone use windows for banking or anything else. I know that bothers you but its my opinion. Windows is a fine gaming platform, so is the xbox and ps. I wouldn't however suggest someone use a Playstation to do their taxes with the PS web browser.
 
heatlesssun said:
Linux can work for many people on the desktop but support is still a huge issue. There are more Linux games than ever but that's also true of Windows and the gap is only getting bigger. Hardware support for things like 2 in 1s which are now a big deal just really isn't there for Linux.
Click to expand...

2 in 1s are 100% a non issue heatle. The reason regular people don't use linux is because it doesn't ship on their devices for the most part. 2 in 1s that ship with Windows or android or whatever are not intended to be Linux devices. The manufacturers of such devices are not supplying drivers to the kernel why the heck would they they are not shipping with Linux.

I mean what is next saying Linux sucks because I can't get it to run properly on my ipad ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top