HP Reverb G2

Armenius

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HP has just launched a new VR headset developed in conjunction with Microsoft and Valve. The headset sports a resolution of 2160x2160 per eye on 2" x 2.89" LCD screens with a refresh rate of 90 Hz. It promises "infinite" tracking area with 4 cameras in the headset. IPD adjustment is available, along with replaceable face cushions. Face adjustment is via Velcro instead of the ratcheting mechanism common in most headsets currently on the market.

The headset is selling for $599 USD and is now available for pre-order. It comes with a set of controllers.

https://twitter.com/HP/status/1266039255723397120

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/vr/reverb-g2-vr-headset.html

People in the Twitter thread seem to be of the opinion that this is only an incremental upgrade from the previous Reverb.
 

MaZa

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This is the perfect headset for me. I do not mind the 114 FOV, it is still bigger than Rift S which again is bigger than CV1 which I have. But damn, high resolution per eye, (apparetly) high sweetspot and manual IPD adjustment, Index headphones, Rift style controllers and most of all inside out tracking which is a must-have for me.
 

BassTek

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This seems like a decent all-round headset. I would mainly get one for sim racing so it's nice not having to deal with base station tracking and the resolution is good. Refresh rate at 90hz should be enough and they added better lenses and IPD adjustments which covers all the basics I think.
 

noko

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Looks like an excellent price for what you get. Looks like Christmas present incoming later this year. The controllers look rather weak which is too bad.
 
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MaZa

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I will wait for Reviews, WMR headsets haven't the best track record.

I dunno, Samsung Odyssey was very popular, the headset is apparently really good for the price. The controllers were crap and tracking was accurate on the front only, on sides they relied on motion sensors which is not that good. Now future WMR sets has cameras on the sides too so that issue should be fixed.
 

reaper12

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I dunno, Samsung Odyssey was very popular, the headset is apparently really good for the price. The controllers were crap and tracking was accurate on the front only, on sides they relied on motion sensors which is not that good. Now future WMR sets has cameras on the sides too so that issue should be fixed.

I knew I should have a put a smiley face :) "Track Record" Was trying to be a clever joke!! By which I meant that the tracking in WMR headsets up until now hasn't been that great. I have used the Samsung Odyssey plus a lot and it's a great headset but, tracking wasn't that good.

More cameras doesn't always mean better, the HTC Cosmos has 6 and still doesn't have as good as tracking as the Oculus Quest.
 

MaZa

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I knew I should have a put a smiley face :) "Track Record" Was trying to be a clever joke!! By which I meant that the tracking in WMR headsets up until now hasn't been that great. I have used the Samsung Odyssey plus a lot and it's a great headset but, tracking wasn't that good.

More cameras doesn't always mean better, the HTC Cosmos has 6 and still doesn't have as good as tracking as the Oculus Quest.

Well... umm... Derp. :oops:
 

Vega

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So a "no compromises" VR headset is a slightly upgraded HP Reverb? Geez hyperbole is out of controls in marketing these days.
 

MaZa

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So a "no compromises" VR headset is a slightly upgraded HP Reverb? Geez hyperbole is out of controls in marketing these days.

Even though the original Reverb came with good screen, one of the best in the market, it came with some downsides. This new one aims to fix quite a lot of them. I do not see what you are complaining about?

This one is filling the hole that Rift S and HTC Cosmos failed fill as far as PCVR goes. IF the product delivers that is.
 

BassTek

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Even though the original Reverb came with good screen, one of the best in the market, it came with some downsides. This new one aims to fix quite a lot of them. I do not see what you are complaining about?

It's just a dig at the over-zealous marketing team. 'No compromises' would generally mean best in class for each specification, with a high price to show for it.
 

MaZa

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It's just a dig at the over-zealous marketing team. 'No compromises' would generally mean best in class for each specification, with a high price to show for it.

I still fail to see the point of what he was expecting. So far every 2nd gen VR headset has come with major compromises and you had to choose which bothers you the least. Even Index is far from perfect. If specs are to be believed, this has the least amount of compromises of any consumer VR headset. Except maybe FOV but even that should be bigger than Rift S. Again if specs are to be believed.
 

Vega

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I guess you fail to understand what the phrase "no compromises" means.

I can think of four right off the top of my head.
 

MaZa

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I guess you fail to understand what the phrase "no compromises" means.

I can think of four right off the top of my head.

I can think a few too if I really put my mind to it like eye tracking etc. But are the lack of them really compromises on consumer headsets? Do not get me wrong, I am not defending HP or anything, I just find your 'meh' reaction very surprising considering how many are reacting very positively to the idea of a headset that (possibly) finally ticks so many boxes right instead of messing up on the most stupidest things like Rift S and Cosmos has. Hell, even Quest as cool stand-alone device as it is. Personally I am looking forward to finally retiring my Rift CV1 that I have held on to for so long.
 

noko

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I hope you can just use Steam VR and not go through Microsoft VR software which is just another layer to get to SteamVR. Odesey+ worked fine in Beat Saber except if you swing your sword way back, you better kinda look that way too, it would get fixed until it came back into view at times -> Very distracting. The headset is uncomfortable, front heavy until I put an adjustable Velcro strap to top of head to pick up some of the weight. VivePro is way more comfortable but is also bulkier. Look forward to the reviews when available.
 

Ripskin

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Interesting. I think I would rather use the index controllers but will wait for reviews on it.
 

CraptacularOne

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Saw this the other day and it has piqued my interest. I'm a big fan of inside out tracking and not needing any additional sensors for my VR set up. I really like my Rift S for this very reason. I don't have to drill holes in my walls and run cords to external sensors, I just pop on the headset and I'm ready to go.
 

SuperSubZero

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More cameras doesn't always mean better, the HTC Cosmos has 6 and still doesn't have as good as tracking as the Oculus Quest.
I always assumed all the WMR headsets used whatever MS reference design cameras. My old HP 1st gen WMR headset had all kinds of controller tracking weirdness until I just stopped using NiMH rechargeables and switched to NiZN. That just "fixed" the controllers for me for the most part. The blind spot in the back and down low was always a problem and I hope the G2 can close some of those gaps up.

As far as the Cosmos, I don't know their inside-out implementation. It's not WMR branded, so I am kinda guessing it's not one that uses MS's tech. (?)
 

bobzdar

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I'm tempted but want to see what Samsung comes up with first. The only compromises I see on this are refresh and fov, otherwise it has 4 camera inside out tracking, highest pixel per degree of any headset, adjustable ipd, high end audio and looks to have a properly comfortable mount. For refresh and fov, you'd be sacrificing pixels due to bandwidth limits, see both index (less pixels) and pimax (wider fov but sacrifices refresh or pixel density, depending on model or mode). So that's less a compromise than a specific choice to go for pixel density over refresh or fov as it's not possible with current technology to maximize all 3.
 
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MaZa

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I always assumed all the WMR headsets used whatever MS reference design cameras. My old HP 1st gen WMR headset had all kinds of controller tracking weirdness until I just stopped using NiMH rechargeables and switched to NiZN. That just "fixed" the controllers for me for the most part. The blind spot in the back and down low was always a problem and I hope the G2 can close some of those gaps up.

As far as the Cosmos, I don't know their inside-out implementation. It's not WMR branded, so I am kinda guessing it's not one that uses MS's tech. (?)

Cosmos is not WMR, it is HTC's own design and they screwed the inside out tracking completely. Its issues seem to be that it has trouble reliably figuring out which controller is which. As long as they are clearly apart you are fine but when you bring them closer or even worse, but one behind the other the system freaked out. Now it is not as bad as before thanks to updates but it still has to guess where the other controller is when obscured by the other. It is far from accurate when you do "assault rifle" postures.

WMR does not have these issues, but as you noted the camera fov was just too tiny and outside of it it has to guess what you are doing, with varying results. Adding more cameras can only help, I think.
 

reaper12

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I'm tempted but want to see what Samsung comes up with first. The only compromises I see on this are refresh and fov, otherwise it has 4 camera inside out tracking, highest pixel per degree of any headset, adjustable ipd, high end audio and looks to have a properly comfortable mount. For refresh and fov, you'd be sacrificing pixels due to bandwidth limits, see both index (less pixels) and pimax (wider fov but sacrifices refresh or pixel density, depending on model or mode). So that's less a compromise than a specific choice to go for pixel density over refresh or fov as it's not possible with current technology to maximize all 3.

The first Reverb was very light and very comfortable. But I wonder will the extra weight of the new cameras and audio system affect the comfort levels?
 

reaper12

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I always assumed all the WMR headsets used whatever MS reference design cameras. My old HP 1st gen WMR headset had all kinds of controller tracking weirdness until I just stopped using NiMH rechargeables and switched to NiZN. That just "fixed" the controllers for me for the most part. The blind spot in the back and down low was always a problem and I hope the G2 can close some of those gaps up.

As far as the Cosmos, I don't know their inside-out implementation. It's not WMR branded, so I am kinda guessing it's not one that uses MS's tech. (?)

I tried Various different batteries, it was one of the suggestions on some of the forums to improve the tracking. Didn't work for me, but, it other people did report that it got better.

As MaZa said, HTC developed their own tracking system and made a right mess of it!!
 

Armenius

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The first Reverb was very light and very comfortable. But I wonder will the extra weight of the new cameras and audio system affect the comfort levels?
Chart at the bottom of the website linked in OP says it weighs 1.1 pounds US without cable, which is the same weight as the original.
 

reaper12

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Chart at the bottom of the website linked in OP says it weighs 1.1 pounds US without cable, which is the same weight as the original.

Well, that's good to know, I just presumed there would be extra weight involved.

Now, if the inside out tracking works pretty well I might actually buy one.
 

MavericK

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Inside out tracking has me concerned. If there was an option for base station tracking I might consider this.

The big issue I have seen with inside-out is that if you reach behind your back, most of the time it won't track the controllers. A lot of games now use reaching behind your back to either store items or grab stored items.
 

reaper12

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Inside out tracking has me concerned. If there was an option for base station tracking I might consider this.

The big issue I have seen with inside-out is that if you reach behind your back, most of the time it won't track the controllers. A lot of games now use reaching behind your back to either store items or grab stored items.

Inside out tracking is fine if it's done correctly. HTC have made a mess of it so far with the Cosmos, but the Rift S and Quest are fine to use even with reaching behind the back. Boneworks is an example of a game that you spend a lot of time reaching behind the back and over the shoulders. Not a problem on the Rift S.

I will wait for reviews to see if HP does a good job of implementing it.
 

CraptacularOne

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Inside out tracking has me concerned. If there was an option for base station tracking I might consider this.

The big issue I have seen with inside-out is that if you reach behind your back, most of the time it won't track the controllers. A lot of games now use reaching behind your back to either store items or grab stored items.
The Rift S uses accelerometers and telemetry from the controllers to determine where the controllers are and what they are doing when obscured from view. Never had an issue yet in reaching behind my back to pull things from inventory or reaching for weapons. I would assume HTC is going to implement something similar and hopefully as accurate. But inside out tracking isn't something to be avoided in general man. If done well it's pretty damn good and very reliable.
 

reaper12

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The Rift S uses accelerometers and telemetry from the controllers to determine where the controllers are and what they are doing when obscured from view. Never had an issue yet in reaching behind my back to pull things from inventory or reaching for weapons. I would assume HTC is going to implement something similar and hopefully as accurate. But inside out tracking isn't something to be avoided in general man. If done well it's pretty damn good and very reliable.

Actually for the the Rift S and the Quest they use AI and machine learning to predict the movement of the controllers when not in view of the cameras. They had to trained the AI.

And I presume you mean HP not HTC :) as the HTC headset is already out.
 

CraptacularOne

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Actually for the the Rift S and the Quest they use AI and machine learning to predict the movement of the controllers when not in view of the cameras. They had to trained the AI.

And I presume you mean HP not HTC :) as the HTC headset is already out.
Yeah I meant HP, I was on mobile when I typed that and have no idea why it was auto corrected to HTC.

As for the touch controllers yes it uses AI too but it's mainly the accelometers that the AI is using to determine what the controllers are doing when obscured from view.
 

reaper12

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As for the touch controllers yes it uses AI too but it's mainly the accelometers that the AI is using to determine what the controllers are doing when obscured from view.

When the controllers are in view of the camera, you are correct it's mainly the accelerometers, with the AI using the cameras to prevent drift and keep the tracking accurate. Once the controllers go out of view of the camera, it's all AI. The Accelerometers in the controllers are useless for tracking if they aren't in line of sight of something, either cameras or Lighthouses to correct for drift.
 

MavericK

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Inside out tracking is fine if it's done correctly. HTC have made a mess of it so far with the Cosmos, but the Rift S and Quest are fine to use even with reaching behind the back. Boneworks is an example of a game that you spend a lot of time reaching behind the back and over the shoulders. Not a problem on the Rift S.

I will wait for reviews to see if HP does a good job of implementing it.

The Rift S uses accelerometers and telemetry from the controllers to determine where the controllers are and what they are doing when obscured from view. Never had an issue yet in reaching behind my back to pull things from inventory or reaching for weapons. I would assume HTC is going to implement something similar and hopefully as accurate. But inside out tracking isn't something to be avoided in general man. If done well it's pretty damn good and very reliable.

I guess that's fair, we'll wait and see. I definitely would be wanting to use my Index controllers with it, though.
 

reaper12

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I guess that's fair, we'll wait and see. I definitely would be wanting to use my Index controllers with it, though.

Your Index controllers won't work natively with the Reverb headset. There are workarounds, but, YMMV. You need the Base stations(which you have already if you have an Index) and 2 steam controller dongles and some software to set it up. Open Space VR calibrator is the most popular software. It's supposed to be a pain though if you have both the Index and a WMR headset as it messes up your Steam play area every time.
 

MavericK

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Your Index controllers won't work natively with the Reverb headset. There are workarounds, but, YMMV. You need the Base stations(which you have already if you have an Index) and 2 steam controller dongles and some software to set it up. Open Space VR calibrator is the most popular software. It's supposed to be a pain though if you have both the Index and a WMR headset as it messes up your Steam play area every time.

Ah, bummer. I thought just being able to use basestations with the controllers would work, but that's good to know that it wouldn't just work.
 

Mode13

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This G2 is going to be the headset for me if the blurriness from the old lenses and issue with the obnoxious cable has been fixed. I actually had a lot of fun playing games on "big screen" but the resolution of the Rift S I got to try it on just didn't seem good enough.. massive resolution bump over the rift s for only $200 more has me sold.
 

Ripskin

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I'm torn as I like a lot that the G2 has to offer for the price tag but I would love the Index controllers.
 

zeroARMY

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I'm torn as I like a lot that the G2 has to offer for the price tag but I would love the Index controllers.
Because you lose individual finger tracking or for comfort or design reasons? I heard that while individual finger tracking is pretty interesting and new at the beginning, the novelty quickly wears off and becomes something of a nuisance.
 

MavericK

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Because you lose individual finger tracking or for comfort or design reasons? I heard that while individual finger tracking is pretty interesting and new at the beginning, the novelty quickly wears off and becomes something of a nuisance.

I wouldn't say that's the case (went from Vive wands to Index controllers). Finger tracking itself works really well, the problem is most games don't support it in any meaningful way because, well, it only really works well on the Index controllers.

The real great thing about them is the capacitive grip and not having to physically hold onto the controllers. I don't think I'd want to switch back to regular controllers at this point, so I am in the same boat as Ripskin.
 

Ripskin

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Because you lose individual finger tracking or for comfort or design reasons? I heard that while individual finger tracking is pretty interesting and new at the beginning, the novelty quickly wears off and becomes something of a nuisance.

Mostly as MavericK said. While the controllers here don't look necessarily bad and I am sure they work perfectly fine I like the abilities and layout of the Index ones. Not having held any its just purely subjective and based on a lot of review watching.
 

rgMekanic

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Looks about perfect to replace my Explorer.. but damn that resolution is gonna take some massive horsepower.
 
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