GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

I admit it, I'm stupid about this and am not sure how to interpret what is being said about the GeForce Partner Progam. Or I'm assuming I don't because I'm not seeing the unethical part, and thats not a smart ass or sarcastic comment either. I don't get it. I mean from what I'm seeing it's nVidia trying to get exclusivity over AMD. If that is correct, then the only thing I see it as is business. Kind of like the Microsoft XBox and Sony Playstation.

Of course as a consumer you want choice. The best choice is the one where any manufacturer turns out cards with GPU's from AMD, nVidia or whoever else. However I also understand why companies go after lucrative deals that sometimes is, exclusivity. I'd like every game I play be available for XBox, Playstation AND PC. Don't flame me if I've gotten this wrong and am not understanding it correctly.
 
Silent Scone said:
Ok, so do you have any knowledge of how vendors plan to rebrand yet? That is to say, without knowing how vendors plan on restructuring their product, aren't you just creating an ominous cloud over something that hasn't even come to light yet? You've said yourself you've heard next to nothing from board partners. Considering this is who this partnership is aimed at, seems like a deliberate oversight from [H] simply on the basis of getting this story out there before it breaks.

A lot of "this could" "we could see". There's enough hearsay in this industry already, don't you think.
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Is Kyle the one creating an ominous cloud over things? Or is it nVidia with some really shitty strongarm tactics they know they can force on companies right now? The GPP program is what is at issue, not Kyle or his article.

Of course there's some hearsay with regards to the terms of the program. To protect the companies he talked to, Kyle can't sit there and post the documents he was able to see and read. That's a normal thing. There is one point which you haven't brought up and seem to be flat out ignoring, nVidia could stop all of this right now and release the terms of the program. nVidia is not doing this and the simplest reason is because Kyle's reporting is factual and the actual terms of the program could be even worse than reported.

What a lot of this comes down to is the fact that a lot of us over a period of 20+ years have seen time after time that Kyle doesn't throw lies and bullshit at us. He will dig into something and find truth in it and report it to us. We've grown accustomed to that from him and we rely on it. He's done it over and over and we have no reason to believe he's lying to us and blowing smoke up our asses with regards to this program. You simply don't seem to believe he's telling the truth and that's your choice. However, keep in mind we have 20+ years of examples of Kyle telling us the truth whereas we have you and a few others in this thread whom we do not know at all trying to tell us to "wait and see" and that Kyle is somehow mistaken. The fact is we are a lot more likely to believe Kyle's reporting over your vague assurances that nVidia's new program is somehow cleaner than the driven snow. Your comments sound more like a bad attempt at damage control by nVidia than anything else.
 
Wow, so I was just listening to the video above and listening to Kyle and 30 minutes in, Kyle is saying "So what does it matter, you can't buy a video card now anyway ......."


And Kyle, something struck a cord ...................

In a civil case, well winning and losing matters, but how much it matters depends on damages.

And damages, well if you aren't selling any cards anyway, at least not to gamers, then how much could your damages come to anyway?
 
Surprised AMD hasn't taken NVidia to court over this not to mention AIB partners. Laws in anti competition act. Once becomes final and published will see.
 
50Cal said:
Come on AMD, make some GPUs that actually compete. I want to ditch nvidia, but i will not downgrade my hardware just because of some busniess practice that any company (including AMD) would resort to if they had the ability to.

I need 4k60 @ high/ultra and right now only the 1080 Ti can deliver.
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If it wasn't for some of the gameworks garbage like hairworks or the poor api support, you wouldn't need that 1080ti.

Honestly, Vulcan is the best thing that happened to 'PC Hardware' in a long time.

edit: It seems software bloat had been nearly keeping pace with hardware advances. This is partly nvidias doing with gameworks 'eye candy.' With the amount of performance on hand today, even mid range cards should be able to handle 4k by now. Sadly, that is not the case, and a high end card is often needed for even 1440p.

Games today use twice the gpu power and 4x the frame buffer as games a few years back. And visuals have not changed that much.

The GPP program will only add to this kind of software bloat. ALL FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF HURTING AMD AND NOT IMPROVUNG PC GAMING OR 'TRANSPARENCY' FOR THE CONSUMER.
 
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lcpiper said:
Wow, so I was just listening to the video above and listening to Kyle and 30 minutes in, Kyle is saying "So what does it matter, you can't buy a video card now anyway ......."
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Why do I see used Titan XPs going for $950? People only want 1080 Tis ?
 
I just wanted to drop in and congratulate Kyle for his sterling work on this. This is what proper journalism is about, bringing the truth to light no matter what the consequences. The fact that Nvidia think they can get away with this crap is worrying itself, they know they are in an utterly dominant position and can basically dictate to the card manufacturers what they can and cannot do.

I think the whole 1070 TI stuff got my attention when they told manufacturers they couldn't alter clock speeds on their cards, this is the same think but to the next level. I've been buying Nvidia products since the riva 128 and I find it sad that a company that produces such great products has such an ugly way of doing business. It is interesting though because you have to say why are they acting like this are they so scared of Navi or potential Intel that they have to fight this dirty.


I sometimes wish that all the big Asian board manufacturers got together and created a trade organisation. Then they would have a way of fighting this type of crap from Intel, Nvidia or whoever. These manufacturers certainly need western tech firms to produce there goods but without them the chip manufacturers wouldn't actually have a way of selling their products.
 
SmokeRngs said:
Is Kyle the one creating an ominous cloud over things? Or is it nVidia with some really shitty strongarm tactics they know they can force on companies right now? The GPP program is what is at issue, not Kyle or his article.

Of course there's some hearsay with regards to the terms of the program. To protect the companies he talked to, Kyle can't sit there and post the documents he was able to see and read. That's a normal thing. There is one point which you haven't brought up and seem to be flat out ignoring, nVidia could stop all of this right now and release the terms of the program. nVidia is not doing this and the simplest reason is because Kyle's reporting is factual and the actual terms of the program could be even worse than reported.

What a lot of this comes down to is the fact that a lot of us over a period of 20+ years have seen time after time that Kyle doesn't throw lies and bullshit at us. He will dig into something and find truth in it and report it to us. We've grown accustomed to that from him and we rely on it. He's done it over and over and we have no reason to believe he's lying to us and blowing smoke up our asses with regards to this program. You simply don't seem to believe he's telling the truth and that's your choice. However, keep in mind we have 20+ years of examples of Kyle telling us the truth whereas we have you and a few others in this thread whom we do not know at all trying to tell us to "wait and see" and that Kyle is somehow mistaken. The fact is we are a lot more likely to believe Kyle's reporting over your vague assurances that nVidia's new program is somehow cleaner than the driven snow. Your comments sound more like a bad attempt at damage control by nVidia than anything else.
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So in short, you believe whatever is put in front of your face by the press and ignore the fact that, the partners, who are the ones directly and foremost affected by this program, have yet to comment?

It's common sense, surely? You haven't heard from board partners as to how this affects restructuring, ergo all you have is the ominous cloud of uncertainty and doubt.

Facts before paragraphs. You can't accuse something of being anti-competitive when the fine print is unknown of what exactly is required of board partners and how GPU branding is impacted.
 
This does not surprise me.. seems par for the course with nvidia or amd... or any large company for that matter. The article and interview just confirms why we flock to HardOCP for unbiased reviews.
 
I'm just waiting for the eventual smear campaign from NVidia that releases the picture of Bennett with the red stripe in his hair as proof he's firmly in Team Red's pocket.
 
Thanks for the time and effort on this story. Much appreciated.

AMD is so far behind nVidia I'm not sure much of this really matters to those of us who are loyal only to performance. I do plan on taking a serious look at Ryzen 2 and or 3. Not the + version that's coming out soon. I like AMD. I wish they had something very close in performance to the 1080 Ti for a 1/3rd less. I would be a customer.

With nVidia leading the way I can't help but feel some of us think in terms of ... "It's better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

I do not like the fact that Asus ROG will now only be an nVidia brand. It does bother me to be honest.

If this happens, for the few that are still with AMD, I will keep you guys in mind and hope that your fortunes eventually, hopefully will change in the coming years as to AMD's video card performance. They are behind 2 or 3 generations now but look at Ryzen? They could catch up.
 
Silent Scone said:
Facts before paragraphs. You can't accuse something of being anti-competitive when the fine print is unknown of what exactly is required of board partners and how GPU branding is impacted.
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It IS known though, just not to your eyes. I trust Kyle on this one. He's got the document in his hands. Common Sense dictates he's not gonna release the document. Jobs are at stake here and he won't jeopardize his sources if he doesn't have to.
 
Just what is so hard to understand by some here... Lordy.
Why doesn't Nvidia buy their own fabs? Razor thin margins not to their taste?.. meh, could very well be the next competidor comes from China with much cheaper hardware.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Just what is so hard to understand by some here... Lordy.
Why doesn't Nvidia buy their own fabs? Razor thin margins not to their taste?.. meh, could very well be the next competidor comes from China with much cheaper hardware.
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Risk mitigation

Though NV would be screwed if TSMC ever had a bad day since that's their only fab partner

AMD has three fab partners
 
ecmaster76 said:
Risk mitigation

Though NV would be screwed if TSMC ever had a bad day since that's their only fab partner

AMD has three fab partners
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Correct me if I wrong but I think both have 2 fab partners. AMD TSMC and GF, nvidia Samsung and TSMC
 
Silent Scone said:
So in short, you believe whatever is put in front of your face by the press and ignore the fact that, the partners, who are the ones directly and foremost affected by this program, have yet to comment?

It's common sense, surely? You haven't heard from board partners as to how this affects restructuring, ergo all you have is the ominous cloud of uncertainty and doubt.

Facts before paragraphs. You can't accuse something of being anti-competitive when the fine print is unknown of what exactly is required of board partners and how GPU branding is impacted.
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I believe jack shit of what the press puts in front of me because the vast majority of the press wouldn't know how to investigate a story if someone wrote them directions on how to do it and forced them to follow the directions. The fact that you would even make a statement like this shows your bias, your lack of integrity and your inability to see how Kyle has reported over the years.

Common sense? You don't know the meaning of that phrase. If you did, you'd know that the companies being strong armed by nVidia aren't allowed to publicly comment on the program or the terms of the program. This is normal for any type of deal and basic knowledge. The fact that you ignore this simple fact again points out your bias and lack of integrity.

Facts? You talk to me of facts? You haven't provided a single fact whatsoever. On the other hand, Kyle has done so. He's seen the terms of the program and reported what he is able to without getting his sources in trouble. Again, it comes down to integrity and known personal attributes. The vast majority of us here know Kyle's integrity and his honest and truthful reporting and we simply believe, based on his 20+ years of history with this site, that he's telling us the truth. We don't believe you and have no reason to. Your attempts at discussion have shown your willingness to ignore even the most basic standards with regards to contracts. You are either extremely ignorant of everything you're commenting on or you're trying to blow smoke up our asses.
 
Space_Ranger said:
You are either extremely ignorant of everything you're commenting on or you're trying to blow smoke up our asses.
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Believe me, you'd have to be more ignorant to form an opinion on what you don't know.

So tell me, what exactly do we (the collective we) know about what board partners forward plan is for this?

That's right, you can't. Sorry, who's ignorant? lol
 
SixFootDuo said:
Thanks for the time and effort on this story. Much appreciated.

AMD is so far behind nVidia I'm not sure much of this really matters to those of us who are loyal only to performance. I do plan on taking a serious look at Ryzen 2 and or 3. Not the + version that's coming out soon. I like AMD. I wish they had something very close in performance to the 1080 Ti for a 1/3rd less. I would be a customer.

With nVidia leading the way I can't help but feel some of us think in terms of ... "It's better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

I do not like the fact that Asus ROG will now only be an nVidia brand. It does bother me to be honest.

If this happens, for the few that are still with AMD, I will keep you guys in mind and hope that your fortunes eventually, hopefully will change in the coming years as to AMD's video card performance. They are behind 2 or 3 generations now but look at Ryzen? They could catch up.
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I never get this line of thinking lately. Vega 56 competes very well and can be overclocked to perform like a 1080, yeah it's a shame the Vega 64 cant compete with a 1080ti but it is what it is. If the Vega 64 did compete with a 1080ti there is no way AMD is selling it for less then Nvidia especially since it uses HBM memory which costs more. I never understood why people think AMD should make a superior product and charge less for it, just not how the corporate world works. Now if AMD had a competitive card with Nvidias top card, prices likely would come down some and all would be happy, well if you could find one. My last card was a 290X and my current is a 1080, it's all about best performance for the dollar for me and I think for most. I think the bigger problem is a need to upgrade, I see little need for me to upgrade unless something changes, I get more then enough performance at 1440p and if the next gen doubled performance I still dont think I will care.
 
Silent Scone said:
Believe me, you'd have to be more ignorant to form an opinion on what you don't know.

So tell me, what exactly do we (the collective we) know about what board partners forward plan is for this?

That's right, you can't. Sorry, who's ignorant? lol
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Pretty sure that it's mentioned that Kyle spoke with multiple "board partners" on this?
 
SeymourGore said:
I'm just waiting for the eventual smear campaign from NVidia that releases the picture of Bennett with the red stripe in his hair as proof he's firmly in Team Red's pocket.
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You think all those Ryzen logos directly in line with the red stripe happened by accident? Product placement and subliminal advertising at its best.

IMG_20170517_224054.jpg
 
Wow, step away from anything news for a week and come back to this. Amazing. Kudos for yet another "bleeding" edge report.

Hopefully this coming out will help stop it from actually gaining traction/control.
 
Silent Scone said:
So tell me, what exactly do we (the collective we) know about what board partners forward plan is for this?

That's right, you can't. Sorry, who's ignorant? lol
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I'm pretty sure we (the collective we) make an assumption that your wife's plan won't have another man's sausage stuck in her.

Can you say that with certainty? No. That's right, you can't.

Point is Kyle's built trust over the years. Perhaps later the 'fine print' will leak and you'll have your proof. Or you'll divorce.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
Pretty sure that it's mentioned that Kyle spoke with multiple "board partners" on this?
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How does that help anyone in this thread? I can speak to vendors off the record, too. It's just a general consensus based on nothing more than conjecture. On or off the record, the outcome is what impacts whether this is truly anti-competitive practice or incentive.The program is obviously targeting board partners, we need to see how this directly affects them. There is a massive reek of sensationalism by accusing NVIDIA of being anti-competitive before the program has even lifted off the ground. Surely before you can throw accusations you'd need proof of foul play? I'm not disputing that Kyle isn't generally speaking a straight shooter, but then the irony there is you can shoot straight and also go off half-cocked, too.

Personally, I want to see just how partners of GPP plan to restructure their AMD GPU line if they currently have one. It's obviously easier to just get angry about things and throw accusations about.
Shotglass01 said:
I'm pretty sure we (the collective we) make an assumption that your wife's plan won't have another man's sausage stuck in her.

Can you say that with certainty? No. That's right, you can't.

Point is Kyle's built trust over the years. Perhaps later the 'fine print' will leak and you'll have your proof. Or you'll divorce.
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Like I said, it's easier to get angry.
 
Personally, I'd like to think that nVidia will realize the stench their (potential) actions are creating and back away from it. Maybe. One can hope.
 
Silent Scone said:
How does that help anyone in this thread? I can speak to vendors off the record, too. It's just a general consensus based on nothing more than conjecture. On or off the record, the outcome is what impacts whether this is truly anti-competitive practice or incentive.The program is obviously targeting board partners, we need to see how this directly affects them. There is a massive reek of sensationalism by accusing NVIDIA of being anti-competitive before the program has even lifted off the ground. Surely before you can throw accusations you'd need proof of foul play? I'm not disputing that Kyle isn't generally speaking a straight shooter, but then the irony there is you can shoot straight and also go off half-cocked, too.

Personally, I want to see just how partners of GPP plan to restructure their AMD GPU line if they currently have one. It's obviously easier to just get angry about things and throw accusations about.


Like I said, it's easier to get angry.
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Watch the video above from 16:14 to 19:03.
 
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anon2020 said:
Why do I see used Titan XPs going for $950? People only want 1080 Tis ?
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So I looked through the rest of the thread hoping someone else had an answer for you because I really don't know how to answer your question.

I'm trying to understand why you quoted my post and replied back with this question and I'm sorry but I just don't get where you are going with this or how your question is related to my post.

I suppose I can answer your question at face value, used Titan XPs are being priced and perhaps are selling for the going market rate. Someone thinks they are worth buying at that price. I'm not sure but I think that $950 is well under MSRP for that card which is a better deal than you can get for used 10 series cards which are being priced at above MSRP.

So that's the answer I have for your question and I am sorry if I didn't fully get it right.
 
Silent Scone said:
How does that help anyone in this thread? I can speak to vendors off the record, too. It's just a general consensus based on nothing more than conjecture. On or off the record, the outcome is what impacts whether this is truly anti-competitive practice or incentive.The program is obviously targeting board partners, we need to see how this directly affects them. There is a massive reek of sensationalism by accusing NVIDIA of being anti-competitive before the program has even lifted off the ground. Surely before you can throw accusations you'd need proof of foul play? I'm not disputing that Kyle isn't generally speaking a straight shooter, but then the irony there is you can shoot straight and also go off half-cocked, too.

Personally, I want to see just how partners of GPP plan to restructure their AMD GPU line if they currently have one. It's obviously easier to just get angry about things and throw accusations about.


Like I said, it's easier to get angry.
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You've obviously never talked to anyone who works in the hardware industry. We get off the record comments all the time. 99% of which turn out to be accurate. You simply have to be careful about what you share and where you got the information from. There are several reasons for this, one of which is not wanting to be responsible for putting people out of work or causing them to face reprisal from their employers. If you start sharing those sources, documents, etc. then people will stop coming to you or sharing information in confidence. You can get carried away and blacklist yourself from people in the industry, which makes running a site like this much harder than it needs to be.

I've learned all kinds of shit over drinks with people in the hardware industry. Much of which isn't for public consumption. Kyle wouldn't have written that article if he wasn't sure that the information was true. In the 11 years I've worked with Kyle, he's never said or written anything that didn't turn out to be pretty spot on.

My take on this is that NVIDIA wants to build up it's own business and extend it's market dominance on the backs of brands like ROG and Aorus which were built up by their respective owners while sticking it to AMD and ultimately, the consumer. They've given manufacturers no choice here. If 70% of your graphics card sales are from NVIDIA GPUs, you can't afford not to align with the GeForce brand. A few years back when XFX aligned exclusively with ATI, it didn't go very well for them. Maybe I'm reading into too much here, but it seems like this adds credence to the idea that GPU innovation and development is slowing down for both AMD and NVIDIA. It gives NVIDIA additional motive to resort to such practives to keep revenues up.

Brand recognition is everything and NVIDIA knows that. People bought Intel CPUs when AMD CPUs were faster and systems using them were priced slightly lower because of Intel's brand recognition. The "Intel Inside" marketing campaign is one of the most successful in history. It kept the average Joe buying Intel machines based on that recognition alone.
 
Silent Scone said:
Believe me, you'd have to be more ignorant to form an opinion on what you don't know.

So tell me, what exactly do we (the collective we) know about what board partners forward plan is for this?

That's right, you can't. Sorry, who's ignorant? lol
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The shear fact that YOU TAGGED THE WRONG PERSON tells me you're not able to think straight.. Kindly attribute the statement to the right person and move on please..
 
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