GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

[lcpiper]

And if nVidia has their way that Ryzen processor won't be being put into a motherboard that has a gaming moniker because it isn't an nVidia product.

What would that matter?

Devil's advocate here. But what would it matter if you couldn't put your Ryzen into an ASUS ROG mobo and instead it's got to go into an ASUS ZENITH EXTREME sTR4 AMD X399 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 Extended ATX AMD Motherboard.

The only real difference is it's not marketed as a gaming board although it's performance is just as good, has the same quality parts, etc, and it doesn't have the ROG name.

How bad would that really hurt ASUS.

A ROG board by any other name ........

It's not like the gamers won't know it, and the word won't get out, the products reviewed etc.

ASUS didn't always have a Republic of Gamers brand.

 

[rgMekanic]

As far as I know, Jay is the first one and currently maybe the only one that has made a video about it. And Kudos to him for giving Kyle props for being the one who brought it up.

I'm shocked.

 

[digitalmango]

What a bunch of scumbags. I'm glad I bought my RX580 instead of nvidia.

 

[haste.]

OK OK, I get it, truly I do.

My GTX 960 was an ASUS Strix card and it was a good card. I just got the bug for 21:9 and was going to buy an Acer X34 so I figured I needed the new GTX 1070 to drive it. So they were still pretty new, selling faster than you could find them, so I camped Newegg at work hitting refresh until one popped up and I won the race to the BUY button, it just happened to be an EVGA 1070 SC2 card. But that card was great for a year and a half almost, then one day it died, was still under warranty, I was freaking cause the prices of new cards and the miners, but EVGA took care of it and got me a refurb with the remaining warranty like a Boss, even cross shipped it. So fearing a repeat I decided to buy another and I have a new GTX 1070Ti FTW3 card now from EVGA because as a company I feel they treated me right and like you, I know that's worth something.

So yes, I get it. You just gave me an opening to drive home a point I had made in a previous post, I know you were being light hearted and joking in your post. Sorry about raking you over the coals.

Call me little jerk if you like I deserve it

Color me raked! Nah - EVGA has done well taking care of their customers and I'm actually running an EVGA PSU (Seasonic guts) and EVGA FTW x99 board! Had a buddy RMA a 8800GT SC back in the day and they sent him back a GTX280. Not sure if it was an error on EVGA's side, but they stated they didn't have 8800GT's available so would sent an equivalent... and even though I have two main components EVGA I've always been a MSI fanboi

 

[variant]

What would that matter?

Devil's advocate here. But what would it matter if you couldn't put your Ryzen into an ASUS ROG mobo and instead it's got to go into an ASUS ZENITH EXTREME sTR4 AMD X399 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 Extended ATX AMD Motherboard.

The only real difference is it's not marketed as a gaming board although it's performance is just as good, has the same quality parts, etc, and it doesn't have the ROG name.

How bad would that really hurt ASUS.

A ROG board by any other name ........

It's not like the gamers won't know it, and the word won't get out, the products reviewed etc.

ASUS didn't always have a Republic of Gamers brand.

ROG is the well known sub-brand for their top end. People who are not informed will buy ROG over non-ROG, and if the competition isn't in the ROG, they won't buy it because it won't be apart of the well known top end brand. Brands have power which is why companies like ASUS spend so much money building up a brand.

 

[oldmanbal]

There is no downside to EVGA participating in this. They don't sell AMD/RTG-based GPUs. How much do you want to bet that EVGA (potentially) being a member in this program (because, why not) would have motivated the vendors who sell both AMD/RTG and nVidia GPUs (like ASUS and MSI) to feel like their hands are forced in participating?

All it takes is for one company to participate for all others to feel pressured into it, good intentions notwithstanding.

EVGA does NOT want other vendors participating as they would have more GPP's to get in line with for benefits, whereas the less vendors sign up, the better allotment, advertising, and money they will directly receive.

JayzTwoCents did, they also did a video on the Connecticut/Newegg tax thing where Linus didn't either I think.

Linus has a pretty massive youtube empire, including a lot of access that most armchair internet journalists don't even come close to, along with a lot of advertisers to keep happy, honestly I'd like to see him do a GPP video that isn't a dime a dozen discussion piece that Kyle's article has spawned, but something with interviews from vendors/aib ect or something other than no comment from NV.

 

[Chupachup]

Will we see a Titan or two smashed on stage this time?

I want to see a live feed from a range where one is decimated by a .50 cal and another placed under a caldron filled with thermite is lit remotely by arandomly drawn audience member!

 

[Chupachup]

Very true, but there will always be a company that sees greater profit by throwing everyone else to the wolves, even if it hurts them in the future.

That one company would end up taking a large hit from the community for supporting Nvidia's evil! Would it really be worth years of excommunication, ridicule and trashing of their brand(s), to yield to Nvidia?

I sure as hell would tell Brand-X to go f*** themselves, if they were the one or one of a couple to sign the GPP, when the rest of the market was willing to take a stand!

This branding has gone overboard! AIBs/OEMs should just go back to generic nomenclature for boards/components. Just your basic vendor-year-class-model-iteration and let us go back to reading the specs to make sure it's what we need.

I've been using only Nvidia in my builds for almost 20 years! This is a deal breaker! I'd rather my games video be a bit slower than pay for supporting this stupidity!

 

[lcpiper]

ROG is the well known sub-brand for their top end. People who are not informed will buy ROG over non-ROG, and if the competition isn't in the ROG, they won't buy it because it won't be apart of the well known top end brand. Brands have power which is why companies like ASUS spend so much money building up a brand.

Wait up. So you are saying that if you see benchmarks and reports of great performance from an AMD Vega card, that you would go to Newegg or Amazon, look for a ROG card and buy it even though it doesn't have a Vega chip in it, or that after finding out that there are no Vega chips in ROG cards, that you wouldn't just buy the best AMD Vega equipped card ASUS makes because it's not branded ROG ?

I'm talking you now, you right now today. Not other hypothetical Joe Six packs who we think don't know any better, you.

 

[lcpiper]

That one company would end up taking a large hit from the community for supporting Nvidia's evil! Would it really be worth years of excommunication, ridicule and trashing of their brand(s), to yield to Nvidia?

I sure as hell would tell Brand-X to go f*** themselves, if they were the one or one of a couple to sign the GPP, when the rest of the market was willing to take a stand!

This branding has gone overboard! AIBs/OEMs should just go back to generic nomenclature for boards/components. Just your basic vendor-year-class-model-iteration and let us go back to reading the specs to make sure it's what we need.

I've been using only Nvidia in my builds for almost 20 years! This is a deal breaker! I'd rather my games video be a bit slower than pay for supporting this stupidity!

Well, maybe in this regard you are a better man than me. I wouldn't let this stuff effect my buying at all I don't think. I'm still going to look at the performance and go with what I feel is the best engineered product available. I'll even trade a little raw performance if it comes in for less power, heat, and noise. I have manufacturers I believe in because they have shown me good support and service, so this would also come into consideration come buying time. But underhanded marketing games is probably not going to make a difference with me one way or the other. I figure any of them will do whatever it is they think they need to do or want to do. I don't believe there are any saints in this.

You can call me selfish if you like, but when I start feeling the itch for a new card I am going to look to the card that makes the best sense for me to purchase from the people I feel most comfortable buying from and pull that trigger, and I won't be thinking back to this article or any other touchy feely issues from the past.

But that's me and 20 years of government contractor work is making quite the mercenary out of me.

 

[variant]

Wait up. So you are saying that if you see benchmarks and reports of great performance from an AMD Vega card, that you would go to Newegg or Amazon, look for a ROG card and buy it even though it doesn't have a Vega chip in it, or that after finding out that there are no Vega chips in ROG cards, that you wouldn't just buy the best AMD Vega equipped card ASUS makes because it's not branded ROG ?

I'm talking you now, you right now today. Not other hypothetical Joe Six packs who we think don't know any better, you.

I would never buy Nvidia. That's my purchase criteria right now.

Most people don't know what "benchmarks" are.

 

[rgMekanic]

Say you are average joe-dumbass, perhaps you're a teenager, just got your birthday money from your mom and dad (and step dad, even though he's a dick), and you want to buy you a graphics card for those sweet sweet PUBG games.

You don't know wtf [H] is, the closest thing you know to tech is what Linus tells you when he isn't whoring vacuums.

Which one of these 2 cards do you buy?

 

[lcpiper]

I would never buy Nvidia.

Most people don't know what "benchmarks" are.

So I have a hard time reconciling this with other topics and statements people are making.

I mean I see people talking about how PCs are becoming solely a gaming niche, that the only people that will continue to stick to the PC platform will be gamers. But I also see people saying most gamers aren't PC gamers, but consoles or "yak" mobile, (like mobile is really gaming yes?)

So I have a hard time seeing people who are refereed too as gamers, who are the kind of gamers who are going to drop $400+ just on a video card, and they don't know anything about what they are spending their money on. I can see Mom and Pop buying their son a video card for his birthday and they don't know dick about it, but for that money, Mom and Dad want to know that they are getting the right thing for their kid. Hell, just as likely Mom or Dad is one of us to begin with and we know exactly what to get our kid.

So I just don't see this idea that clueless people are going into BestBuy and dropping $400 to $1,000 bucks and someone isn't telling them what to buy, and they are completely at the mercy of a Branding label on a box.

Sure it could happen, but I'm thinking maybe one in one-hundred kind of odds.

 

[variant]

So I have a hard time reconciling this with other topics and statements people are making.

I mean I see people talking about how PCs are becoming solely a gaming niche, that the only people that will continue to stick to the PC platform will be gamers. But I also see people saying most gamers aren't PC gamers, but consoles or "yak" mobile, (like mobile is really gaming yes?)

So I have a hard time seeing people who are refereed too as gamers, who are the kind of gamers who are going to drop $400+ just on a video card, and they don't know anything about what they are spending their money on. I can see Mom and Pop buying their son a video card for his birthday and they don't know dick about it, but for that money, Mom and Dad want to know that they are getting the right thing for their kid. Hell, just as likely Mom or Dad is one of us to begin with and we know exactly what to get our kid.

So I just don't see this idea that clueless people are going into BestBuy and dropping $400 to $1,000 bucks and someone isn't telling them what to buy, and they are completely at the mercy of a Branding label on a box.

Sure it could happen, but I'm thinking maybe one in one-hundred kind of odds.

You do know that gamer and hardware enthusiast are not synonymous?

 

[Chupachup]

Well, maybe in this regard you are a better man than me. I wouldn't let this stuff effect my buying at all I don't think. I'm still going to look at the performance and go with what I feel is the best engineered product available. I'll even trade a little raw performance if it comes in for less power, heat, and noise. I have manufacturers I believe in because they have shown me good support and service, so this would also come into consideration come buying time. But underhanded marketing games is probably not going to make a difference with me one way or the other. I figure any of them will do whatever it is they think they need to do or want to do. I don't believe there are any saints in this.

You can call me selfish if you like, but when I start feeling the itch for a new card I am going to look to the card that makes the best sense for me to purchase from the people I feel most comfortable buying from and pull that trigger, and I won't be thinking back to this article or any other touchy feely issues from the past.

But that's me and 20 years of government contractor work is making quite the mercenary out of me.

I'm not going to tell you do go against your own feelings or judgement Icpiper Just saying my opinion and motivations going forward have been altered. That doesn't mean I'll go about with a cane and force people to my will...unless they're consenting adults

 

[GNUse_the_force]

#remove-pci-e-sockets

 

[lcpiper]

Say you are average joe-dumbass, perhaps you're a teenager, just got your birthday money from your mom and dad (and step dad, even though he's a dick), and you want to buy you a graphics card for those sweet sweet PUBG games.

You don't know wtf [H] is, the closest thing you know to tech is what Linus tells you when he isn't whoring vacuums.

Which one of these 2 cards do you buy?




View attachment 58742 View attachment 58743

Is this a trick question cause they have almost identical specs, features, and pricing. One does look prettier and is in a prettier box, but it's only different in a few minor ways. Maybe you should pick a different card, or maybe you misunderstand. I'm not saying that the pretty box and cooler won't likely sell more of one card over the other. What I am saying is that if you know what you want, the box and branding won't change your mind about buying it. And I don't think everyone is running around as clueless as some of you want to maintain. I'm not saying that they don't get swayed by all the marketing and youtube videos, but in the end, they do decide what they want and go get it, and Armor 2 on the box isn't going to make them buy an NVidia Card when they went to the store for a Vega 64.
.

 

[lcpiper]

#remove-pci-e-sockets

Where would I put all my SSDs?

 

[Aix.]

But you are not everyone.

Lots of people have bought ryzen processors and are very happy with them. AMD is gaining market share where they're almost to Athlon levels.

Amd's architecture is in almost every major console. Freesync is taking off. AMD made strategic Partnerships with Microsoft that led to many of the features of AMD cards being implemented into dx12 that were otherwise ignored in dx11. Kronos group was another Outreach that led to the massive performance gains in Doom. They have a partnership with Bethesda, and their willingness to go open source has led to wider spread implementation.

What you don't understand is that while the hardware is making the games, this goes Way Beyond the hardware into making sound a strategic business decisions so that a repeat of what Intel did to them can never happen again.

Do you think it's a coincidence that just as we are hearing about this program that earlier in the month we hear ASRock is going to start making AMD cards?

AMD has some very bright people finally running the company and they appear to be smart enough to know how to fend off these aggressive attacks from other companies trying to keep them down. They are extremely Diversified in many different areas. Therefore it makes it very hard to pick any single attack vector - that's because the other facets of their business dealings are still in full effect.

Oh I'm not here to pooh-pooh AMD or condone this GPP, I just wanted to point out how meaningless our misgivings are likely to be if Nvidia (or Intel for that matter) releases a new card that blows AMD's cards out of the water, which has pretty much been the going rate for the past 5+ years. "People are going to start buying AMD!" when in reality it'll be something more akin to this:

 

[rgMekanic]

Is this a trick question cause they have almost identical specs, features, and pricing. One does look prettier and is in a prettier box, but it's only different in a few minor ways. Maybe you should pick a different card, or maybe you misunderstand. I'm not saying that the pretty box and cooler won't likely sell more of one card over the other. What I am saying is that if you know what you want, the box and branding won't change your mind about buying it. And I don't think everyone is running around as clueless as some of you want to maintain. I'm not saying that they don't get swayed by all the marketing and youtube videos, but in the end, they do decide what they want and go get it, and Armor 2 on the box isn't going to make them buy an NVidia Card when they went to the store for a Vega 64.
.

I agree that the chances of someone wanting a 1080 and leaving with a 580 is nill, but you severely overestimate how informed someone is. My best friend plays PC games, he is a dumbass, he will certainly buy the prettier "Gaming" card no matter what. If the AMD was listed as a "Workstation" or "Productivity" card, he would pass over it for sure, as I'm sure many would

 

[Chupachup]

Say you are average joe-dumbass, perhaps you're a teenager, just got your birthday money from your mom and dad (and step dad, even though he's a dick), and you want to buy you a graphics card for those sweet sweet PUBG games.

You don't know wtf [H] is, the closest thing you know to tech is what Linus tells you when he isn't whoring vacuums.

Which one of these 2 cards do you buy?

For in-store purchases, like the old days and even now-a-days, I take one of each and sit one the floor. I turn the boxes so that the spec stickers align and I start comparing. Or, thanks to modern technology, I Google from the comfort of my recliner and make a decision at home before pretty packaging and a cold hard floor can sway me. I then purchase the one that most adequately fills my needs.

In the rare circumstance I buy for someone else, I make sure the can return it if it's not the one they want. Actual quote- "Ooooh...this one has half the memory and pipes of the one I wanted." Love ya little bro

 

[risc]

Say you are average joe-dumbass, perhaps you're a teenager, just got your birthday money from your mom and dad (and step dad, even though he's a dick), and you want to buy you a graphics card for those sweet sweet PUBG games.

You don't know wtf [H] is, the closest thing you know to tech is what Linus tells you when he isn't whoring vacuums.

Which one of these 2 cards do you buy?

You're selling harder than an nvidia rep... don't need to tow the line so much, just be yourself. unless that is yourself, then be less yourself.

 

[GNUse_the_force]

Where would I put all my SSDs?

View attachment 58746

Fake. That SSD doesn't have an Nvidia ROG logo on it.

 

[Mugato]

Is this a trick question cause they have almost identical specs, features, and pricing. One does look prettier and is in a prettier box, but it's only different in a few minor ways. Maybe you should pick a different card, or maybe you misunderstand. I'm not saying that the pretty box and cooler won't likely sell more of one card over the other. What I am saying is that if you know what you want, the box and branding won't change your mind about buying it. And I don't think everyone is running around as clueless as some of you want to maintain. I'm not saying that they don't get swayed by all the marketing and youtube videos, but in the end, they do decide what they want and go get it, and Armor 2 on the box isn't going to make them buy an NVidia Card when they went to the store for a Vega 64.
.

In my experience, even IT professionals just buy whatever without really researching first. I was asked recently to help spec a build for someone at work, for her teenage son (close to 18) who already had a gaming computer and wanted a new one. He picked an Origin PC, I said whoa whoa no way. She was going to buy it. I talked with the kid because I thought maybe he knew what he was doing and was trying to sneak one past. Nope, just wanted the top of the line everything, even if it didn't make sense. People just don't have the time to comb over benchmarks and thermals, and don't know where to find "not fake news" anyway yeah? The real enthusiast market is VERY small. Out of my company of 100, roughly 8 of which PC game, I am it. One. Of the outside folks I work with, all professionals, maybe 5 total? That's just my experience.

 

[TheHig]

Say you are average joe-dumbass, perhaps you're a teenager, just got your birthday money from your mom and dad (and step dad, even though he's a dick), and you want to buy you a graphics card for those sweet sweet PUBG games.

You don't know wtf [H] is, the closest thing you know to tech is what Linus tells you when he isn't whoring vacuums.

Which one of these 2 cards do you buy?




View attachment 58742 View attachment 58743

Definitely the one on the bottom. It says Gaming on there and looks badass. The one in the black box is probably what “Ray” ( I use my step dads first name only because it belittles him) would use for his dumb ass stock trading shit. I mean the birthday cash is great but it m not calling that dick head “Dad”...

 

[heatlesssun]

Nope, just wanted the top of the line everything, even if it didn't make sense.

Who doesn't want top of the line even if it doesn't make sense? It comes to down for most but if mommy is paying without objection why not?

 

[Peppercorn]

Say you are average joe-dumbass, perhaps you're a teenager, just got your birthday money from your mom and dad (and step dad, even though he's a dick), and you want to buy you a graphics card for those sweet sweet PUBG games.

You don't know wtf [H] is, the closest thing you know to tech is what Linus tells you when he isn't whoring vacuums.

Which one of these 2 cards do you buy?




View attachment 58742 View attachment 58743

This is all very reminiscent of when intel was forcing motherboard makers to ship AMD boards in non descriptive, white boxes. I guess nvidia is at that level of low now, but when they take their shit for granted, it might just turn around and bite them in the ass.

 

[nilepez]

Say you are average joe-dumbass, perhaps you're a teenager, just got your birthday money from your mom and dad (and step dad, even though he's a dick), and you want to buy you a graphics card for those sweet sweet PUBG games.

You don't know wtf [H] is, the closest thing you know to tech is what Linus tells you when he isn't whoring vacuums.

Which one of these 2 cards do you buy?




View attachment 58742 View attachment 58743

The one on the right, because that picture says quiet fan (though it's possible it's not. I've got a Strix and the reason I got it was because of the quieter fan.

 

[Algrim]

EVGA does NOT want other vendors participating as they would have more GPP's to get in line with for benefits, whereas the less vendors sign up, the better allotment, advertising, and money they will directly receive.

Of course EVGA wouldn't want another company to sign up. But if EVGA is a member how can other brands not consider signing up? That's kinda my point.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

Really? You had already decided on an ASUS Card but the ROG Strix branding helped you choose which ASUS card you wanted to buy?

Tell me you didn't just walk right into this one

I looked for their ROG Strix card... I decided on the Asus because I liked their Enthusiast line up, that one or the Aeorus, also cuz they match the Motherbords

 

[DukenukemX]

Of course EVGA wouldn't want another company to sign up. But if EVGA is a member how can other brands not consider signing up? That's kinda my point.

Depends on how you'll see your company in the next year or two. It makes sense now because Nvidia owns the market, but that won't always be the case. Nvidia has been a sure bet for a long time now, so as a graphics card maker you can't really turn away GPP. On the other hand the market is ready to change with so much demand and so little supply. If AMD doesn't get their act together, then Intel will. If not Intel, then PowerVR or some other graphics chip maker will jump into this market. Point is, someone could release a fantastic products and suddenly someone else has the best GPU. All that marketing money and brand recognition is wasted when suddenly you can't use that brand on some new GPU chip. Of course you could break the GPP agreement and see how far Nvidia can take you to court, given that the legal fees are worth it.

Kaby Lake-G is just the beginning of things to come. Right now it's not a matter of who makes the fastest GPU, because speed isn't that relevant right now. The price of GPU's are high right now, and no matter how good you think Nvidia's GPUs are, if a RX 580 sells for $200, even the most die hard Nvidia fan will buy it. If AMD was smart, they'd start offering similar setups like the Kaby Lake-G but with Ryzen, and be available for desktop PCs. If you could get a six core Ryzen with a RX580 level of performance from a single chip, then AMD would have a gold mine on their hands. Miners won't buy them, since you can't stack them like GPU's.

 

[Uvaman2]

I guess once the mining craze subsides , everyone will be back to competing on price. This dirty move will probably have short lived benefits, I am sure AMD is securing partners as we speak. Even if going back to white box when competing in price it weights a lot, and marketing can be guerrilla style... If your product is solid enough people will discover it and buy it.... PC chips anyone? ( I only use pc chips since i guess there are still white box manufacturers , right? ) I never really used pc chips though, i do remember it.

 

[hexamon]

This GPP thing sucks. Thanks Kyle for once again reporting regardless of repercussions.

Stupid Idea: The AIB's should make "Not Gaming" product lines. Introducing the MSI Not Gaming Edition, powered by AMD. Don't you dare game on this, it's too powerful.

 

[Silent Scone]

Oh I'm not here to pooh-pooh AMD or condone this GPP, I just wanted to point out how meaningless our misgivings are likely to be if Nvidia (or Intel for that matter) releases a new card that blows AMD's cards out of the water, which has pretty much been the going rate for the past 5+ years. "People are going to start buying AMD!" when in reality it'll be something more akin to this:

People are very fickle. It's also very difficult to form an arguement about consumer choice between vendors when there isn't any.

 

[Ripskin]

If AMD wants to win some enthusiasts back they need to deliver another one of their golden egg's. The market is ripe for it right now and this just fans the flames as it were. Longtime Nvidia die hards may be willing to switch IF AMD can deliver something. I waited a long time for them to but sorry, NVidia just had the best product in my price range 3 years straight (that I was shopping), and it is a fantastic card.

Great article. Really screws the partners. Sign up or sign out ultimatum from NVidia.

 

[Jim Kim]

This GPP thing sucks. Thanks Kyle for once again reporting regardless of repercussions.

Stupid Idea: The AIB's should make "Not Gaming" product lines. Introducing the MSI Not Gaming Edition, powered by AMD. Don't you dare game on this, it's too powerful.

Too powerful for gaming, VR so real you can't tell what's fake, Framerates so high the you have to sign a disclaimer.
You sir, just hit the nail on the head and made my day.

 

[Sedriss]

Stupid question... Would this also mean that a company (like Asus) who makes G-Sync and FreeSync monitors, could only produce G-Sync monitors?

 

[SeymourGore]

just got your birthday money from your mom and dad(and step dad, even though he's a dick)

I sense there's a sad story from rgMekanic regarding his stepfather he wants to share with us in GenMay.

And to answer your question, I'd be picking the sweet RX 580 with the 'Gaming X' branding and red/black cooler motif.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

Stupid question... Would this also mean that a company (like Asus) who makes G-Sync and FreeSync monitors, could only produce G-Sync monitors?

It would mean, if they agree and align their ROG Brand with "Geforce" that they could no longer sell FreeSync Monitors under the ROG brand (I'm not sure if this extends to monitors or not, I'm guessing so)

ROG = republic of gamers

 

[Anarchist4000]

It would mean, if they agree and align their ROG Brand with "Geforce" that they could no longer sell FreeSync Monitors under the ROG brand (I'm not sure if this extends to monitors or not, I'm guessing so)

ROG = republic of gamers

I'd guess graphics cards only, although the FreeSync monitors wouldn't match up well with any products in the lineup. However the consoles can make use of FreeSync and matching GPU to monitor brand isn't everything. Certainly nice for marketing and bundling, but that idea got GPP'd.