GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by FrgMstr, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I been holding off like a lot of other people I don't really wanna buy second hand. Having said that I'm a big Linux guy and spend many hours gaming under Linux. I have stuck with NV the last few generations mainly because their Linux drivers are solid. (even though they are closed sourced). I was already leaning going back to AMD soon anyway due to their continued support for open standards and the fact that they have 100% completely open sourced their drivers at this point, even for new standards such as Vulcan. This story pretty much puts it over the top for me. It sounds like my next GPU will not be a "gaming" board... but I guess in most cases that simply means the card won't look as pretty. lol :)
     
  2. gunbust3r

    gunbust3r Gawd

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    Look at this as an excuse for us to get more l33t gaming brands like AORUS with a cool iron pumping bro eagle/chicken mascot!
     
  3. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Half joking... half serious.

    Perhaps this would be a good opportunity for AMD to launch an insane over the top silly brand and sign all the vendors up to produce cards under it.

    An Extreme Entertainment brand. Basically hype the gaming aspect while never ever using the words game, gamer, gaming. lol

    It sounds like they are going to be forced to do that... but perhaps they should just own it and make the brand so insanely silly that it makes people ask why are they calling their gaming line "Maximal leisure Accelerators". Hire a team of comics to come up with all the marketing jargon. Make the mascot ATI ruby but in business attire. lmao
     
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  4. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Uh...OK.
     
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  5. 777

    777 Limp Gawd

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    Okay there horrible analogy guy. We'll all be waiting here for a someone with billions deep pockets to join in a fight where there's no guarantee of success against an entrenched competitor. That's assuming Nvidia isn't the one doing the buying out. Let's just toss your piss poor OS analogy into the trash and use a closer one involving CPU's. I didn't enjoy paying over $300 for a quad core for the better part of a decade but perhaps you did. Hooray free market. Let us all serve.
     
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  6. Imhotep

    Imhotep Gawd

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    Something tells me that intel will be joining the GPU gaming market. Nvidia would not try so hard to corner it that way. Kuduri jumping ship is the hint here we may all have been missing .
     
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  7. {NG}Fidel

    {NG}Fidel [H]ardness Supreme

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    This was an amazing piece by Kyle. Another reason I love his site.
     
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  8. Gideon

    Gideon 2[H]4U

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    Vulkan has proven to be much better then directx so that market dominance has come at the cost of actual performance.
     
  9. Sith'ari

    Sith'ari Gawd

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    For good or bad the rules of the free-market apply. If you want to change them , then we must change them for everybody, not for AMD especially, that's what i'm saying.
     
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  10. Sith'ari

    Sith'ari Gawd

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    exactly, if VULCAN is helping for a better gaming-design, then the market will auto-adjust herself , short-term or long-term.
     
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  11. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    You are reaching razor1-like levels with you continuously posting and reposting your already expressed opinions. This is not the GPU forum and you will not monopolize the thread about our GPP story as your own soapbox for your thoughts and opinions. Consider this your warning.
     
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  12. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't wanna get into some silly legal back and forth (again). Free markets are not anything goes... there are and always have been actual rules. The laws that appear to be at issue in this case protect ALL companies in a free market not just AMD. There is no need to change any laws... the laws making what NV doing illegal are on the books in pretty much every first world free market country in the world.
     
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  13. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    This is why I said "rearely." Randall Noe in Terrell Texas is the same way. However, these are the exception, not the rule. I was using this example to make a point.
     
  14. Algrim

    Algrim [H]ard|Gawd

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    This has been debunked before. Intel has paid AMD and SEC filings confirm it. Intel has not paid the EU fine yet, to the EU. AMD has no further funds incoming from Intel in regard to this settled history.
     
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  15. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Reached out to Intel this morning....which I have been blacklisted with for quite a while. They have had issue with my Intel CPU reviews in the past and "cut us off."

    Hi, Kyle

    Thanks for the note – I’m responding on behalf of Ben. We don’t have any comment on this.

    Best

    Will
    Intel Corporate Relations
     
  16. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Sadly, this is not surprising at all.

    Nvidia has pursued one borderline illegal violation of the Sherman Act after another using their market dominance position to attempt to lock in board partners and consumers through such efforts as:

    - Game Works essentially bribing developers to develop and optimize for GeForce boards at the exclusion of other designs by providing the software and development expertise at the onset of the development, locking key features to GeForce boards, and thus harming competitors,

    - G-Sync, by understanding that consumers buy monitors seldomly, and GPU's more frequently attempting to lock consumers into their GPU's by coming out with a adaptive refresh standard that only works with Nvidia products.

    - And now GPP.

    Lets be very clear here. There is nothing wrong or illegal about a company gaining a monopoly or a strong market dominance through merit. Where it becomes a violation of the Sherman Act is when said company uses their market dominance in a market to either force themselves to become dominant in another market, or to preserve their market dominance in that same market. IMHO, the latter is exactly what Nvidia has been doing with Game Works, G-Sync and now GPP.

    It reminds me a lot of the B.S. Intel pulled when they damned near killed off AMD, and the shit that Microsoft pulled that got them in such trouble with Antitrust regulators in the 90's and ealr 2000's.

    I just wish I could vote with my wallet and buy a sufficiently fast GPU from AMD, but AMD doesn't sell that GPU, which is exactly why actions like these are illegal.

    It seems to me this is a pretty clear violation of the Sherman Act. What I don't understand is why there isn't more aggressive enforcement of these antitrust measures. If anyone can explain this to me, I'd love to hear it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  17. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    How much of that 70 percent was people buying a gpu and getting an Nvidia card when they meant to get an AMD card because of confusing packaging?

    :ROFLMAO:
     
  18. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    The more I read about this, the more I feel like its much ado about nothing.

    If OEMs/Distributors had issues they have been probably ironed out by nvidia. I'm pretty sure every current partner will enter the program and keep doing business as usual.
     
  19. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    But business as usual has not meant turning over your company's gaming brand exclusively to NVIDIA or be excluded from many marketing benefits previously afforded with MDF being the highlight on that list.
     
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  20. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Don't think your understanding the issue. If Asus signs on with the alleged wording of these contracts NO they can not. They can not have a gaming brand featuring anything other the NV parts.

    Do you really think a company like NV would draw up a contract that actually says NV is your only "Gaming" brand supplier now >.< and not word it so companies couldn't simply spin ROG Red.

    A brand featuring AMD from a company with such a contract could not be marketed as a "gaming" product >.< That is the part that makes it unethical and likely illegal.
     
  21. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well since we don't know the wording of the contract, we don't know who is wright or wrong.
     
  22. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    No I'm trusting the owner of this site, who has seen the wording and has reported that is the gist. Kyle hasn't been on the wrong end of things to this point as far as I'm aware, so I'll take him at his word.
     
  23. Space_Ranger

    Space_Ranger Gawd

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    We don't, but Kyle does. I'll take his word on it that the GPP is wrong.. not right...
     
  24. gunbust3r

    gunbust3r Gawd

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    I wonder if the marketing people who dreamed this up are same ones at Nvidia who regularly venture into the shade with questionable sweepstakes/giveaways that are actually lotteries like the "Shot With GeForce GTX” NVIDIA Ansel Contest" where buying Ghost Recon Wildlands was required to be eligible for consideration.
     
  25. d8lock

    d8lock Gawd

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    I imagine the people that came up with this ride around town shooting fireworks at people.
     
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  26. illli

    illli [H]ard|Gawd

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    I never was that thrilled with the "The Way It's Meant to be Played " program they had. Of course I had no proof, but my hunch was NV paid off developers or "donated" for them to program for NV products while that extra $$$ "encouraging" them to not really do much for AMD products. Now... a company like NV dictates how a reseller (which spent time and money creating and marketing a brand) uses their brand? That just doesn't seem right at all.
     
  27. leezard

    leezard [H]ardness Supreme

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  28. wuzupfoo

    wuzupfoo Limp Gawd

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    Thats an easy question... money.... Big corps can sign big campaign checks... I haven't seen another theory/reason to explain so nicely but maybe im being too cynical.
     
  29. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    I would suggest yes, and yes.
     
  30. anon2020

    anon2020 n00b

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    Except what Nvidia supplies is not a stand alone consumer product, it is a part. AIBs put in a ton of engineering, R&D, marketing money etc. to make the final product, the graphics card, different from their competitors. It would be like Michelin going to Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc asking for a separate brand every time one of their cars uses another brand of tire.
     
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  31. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    Thats a good analogy, "We want all of your "sports" and "performance" cars to only have Michelin tires.. you can sell sell Pirelli, but they have to be for something else"
     
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  32. MarkVI

    MarkVI Limp Gawd

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    The free market isn't some magical balancing force. It works when you have many options, it fails when you don't. When you're dealing with a scenario with very few players often consumers are left with little or no choice. When consumers' only choices are buy from company X or vacate the market, we all lose. Think about ISPs. Does ANYONE like Comcast? By your logic, they should have gone under years ago. Likewise, if NVIDIA is allowed to pull this anti-competitive crap, it weakens AMD and leaves you with the options of buy NVIDIA or don't play games.

    It blows my mind that you could toss out MS dominating the gaming market as proof that a monopoly is a good thing. Where do I even start...
     
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  33. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    First off I want to thank Kyle for bringing our attention to this breaking story at his own personal and financial peril.

    Now, I feel that nVidia has overstepped their boundaries on this one. They provide ONE component of the PC gaming or graphics experience, the GPU with associated software. They don't provide motherboards, chips, chipsets, disks, cases, keyboards, mice or monitors. Dictating what their partners (who are part and parcel of their success) can call "gaming" or any other implied enthusiast grade component is a pretty lousy practice. It's bad enough for Asus, MSI or Gigabyte but what about vendors like EVGA who have put most of their eggs in the proverbial green basket? If they don't sign on, they are screwed.

    nVidia NEEDS AMD and Intel to provide CPUs, other vendors to provide RAM, motherboards etc... Will they provide marketing funds for Asus or MSI to re-brand their AMD or Intel based products as "Pro" or "enthusiast" for packaging or labeling efforts? Will they provide transitioning program money or efforts to aid their business partners for them to "unGame" their other products?

    I would probably assume a "no" answer to this question.

    In addition, why does nVidia feel that the PC experience is only about MOAR FPS and gaming? Isn't the PC market more sophisticated than this? Even Kyle himself has argued that for us to become a more enlightened crowd we need to look at the PC gaming experience more closely than just benchmark numbers.

    As someone who has been building custom PCs for nearly 30 years, I find that this sounds like a broken record, but is nVidia really that arrogant and self-involved that they believe that they can put on paper, what even Intel would not do (and they still got caught)?

    This isn't about AMD and Intel versus nVidia. This is about nVidia trying to wrest control of the market for profit and, through collateral implications, stifle competition which hurts consumers.
     
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  34. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    nvidia just needs to update the program with NO MINING and everyone will be happy.
     
  35. Space_Ranger

    Space_Ranger Gawd

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    I highly doubt that.
     
  36. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    NVIDIA is now approaching sites with a rather negative message if they give this GPP story any coverage other than to paint our reporting in a negative light, dismissing it as nonsense and not worth the coverage.
     
  37. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Well thinking about it, if all it took is that companies can't call AMD Gaming, while complete dirty bullshit on their behalf, it is something AMD can embrace and move forward (while suing).
    Add some APIs for desktop acceleration, and boom the AMD Vega Card, with Accelera technology, fastest computer experience in the market.
    Gamers will still look for FPS anyway, they will still know what a gaming card is.
     
  38. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    From more than one source as well.
     
  39. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    I guess that would explain why no other site has digged in the story themselves, only quoting Kyle's article.

    I mean it can't be that hard to get insider info from oem's right? I mean even lousy bloggers and youtubers claim to know people in the industry.

    Where's Charlie when you need him? :D:D
     
  40. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Worth noting, not one single site has contacted me about this except PCWorld. Doing a live interview with them at 12:30pm CDT today.

    EDIT: And actually this guy just reached out to speak with me on this.