Dell U2412M

Dok- said:
So its backlight bleed? This cant IPS-glow right? Because its not orange or violet-bluish, and its basically almost the same from any distance.

I only have this basic Ixus-digi, Im not sure if I can get much better photos with it.. I cant really capture them as accurately I would like. They were taken in almost totally dark room. But I think they still show quite well what I am seeing. The resizing might "punch out" the glow/bleed more than you could see watching the actual screen.

Im just a bit lost here, because I have read this thread and also looked at some reviews with images. And they seem really good, almost perfect when compared.

Edit:
Here is a larger photo taken in a lightly lit room. Although this shot (for some reason) managed to capture the actual light leakage/clouding better, it leaves some of the glowing out (as seen on this image). So I am guessing this panel is faulty.. :confused:
Click to expand...

It looks like backlight bleed on the top right. Give it a few days, and if it doesn't improve, get an exchange from Dell. The good part is, you are guaranteed to get another new one, no refurbs.

Funkdancer's worst panel improved after a couple of days, and I'm fairly sure mine did, because I can't find any right now, even at 75 or 100 brightness.

Maybe there's some flex in the panel that "evens" out after some time? Take a picture of it in two days or so with the same exact settings and light conditions and compare to be sure.
 
10e said:
It looks like backlight bleed on the top right. Give it a few days, and if it doesn't improve, get an exchange from Dell. The good part is, you are guaranteed to get another new one, no refurbs.

Funkdancer's worst panel improved after a couple of days, and I'm fairly sure mine did, because I can't find any right now, even at 75 or 100 brightness.

Maybe there's some flex in the panel that "evens" out after some time? Take a picture of it in two days or so with the same exact settings and light conditions and compare to be sure.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your answer 10e, I'll give it some time. As otherwise I am very satisfied with this monitor and its image quality. Btw, forgot to thank you already in my first post, as your input in this thread has helped me alot to choose this screen. :) Same goes also to those others who have been sharing valuable information, experiences and mature discussion throughout this thread. :)
 
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Just received the shipment this morning. Everything has pretty much been covered in this thread already for the most part but I will add that I love the adjust ability of the stand: height, swivel, tilting. Was not able to do any of that with my last monitor 24" haha.
 
Ordered 2 last Friday night, and received them yesterday even with a projected delivery of Monday.

I used my NEC calibration puck and xrite software with a target of 6500k, 2.2 gamma, 140 cd/m2, and using a 75 contrast I got a little different numbers than 10e, but I don’t know what I am doing and I don’t think what I am using is really good for this monitor. The software gave me 44 brightness, 97 red, 87 green, 90 blue, and then proceeded with the calibration. For reference here are the settings from 10e and Flatpanalshd in Custom Color:
10e brightness 40, contrast 75, R 96, G 93, B 87, sharpness 40
FPhd brightness 43, contrast 75, R 97, G 92, B 94, sharpness 50

I have one sitting next to a $2000 NEC 3090wqxi and I put up the same picture on both (a picture of the family outside amongst flowers) and asked the wife to come take a look at each. She said the NEC looked better but that the u2412m looked good. In my opinion the cost vs. picture of the monitor is impressive. I actually notice the “sparkly” ips screen on white backgrounds less on the Dell than I do on my NEC, and the DELL doesn’t act like a space heater like the NEC does. I am not gaming or watching movies on the Dell, so the backlight bleed that is noticeable in a dark room with a black background is not noticeable when I am actually using the monitor.
 
Just got mine in. Hands down best purchase of my life. Got it for 339 shipped.

I've never owned anything higher than a 19 inch monitor, and this thing is HUGE in my opinion.

I couldn't imagine using a 27 or 30 inch... that would easily give me a headache.
 
What's the lowest CDN price people got, if anyone was following religiously? (not reading 43 pages of posts)
 
Athanas said:
Just got mine in. Hands down best purchase of my life. Got it for 339 shipped.

I've never owned anything higher than a 19 inch monitor, and this thing is HUGE in my opinion.

I couldn't imagine using a 27 or 30 inch... that would easily give me a headache.
Click to expand...


Well, not really. 27" are normally 16:9 nowadays, and I can confirm it's litterally like a wider version of the 24" 16:10 monitors... (comapred to a friends 2407 *VA panel. I forgot the actual model #). The 30", however, is *much* bigger than a 27", mainly due to being 16:10 :p

you'll crumble eventually :p
 
sklent said:
hey any of you fine people, that can post some good calibration numbers for this nice screen ?
I am pretty new at setting up screens, so just the easy to do once :)
Click to expand...

10e posted some good settings according to few users that used and says it's great. Try it and let us know.
 
Hello, I've been following along this thread for awhile and decided this monitor is the one I want. I see some people were getting it for $319 by calling and asking for a price match? What do I tell them to price match against, or what wording should I use to get that price?

Thanks for all the awesome info everyone has provided!
 
Kr3mic, it is a sales rep who can provide the deal, not a pricematch :).

There's a gc promo on sd... buy 500gc get 75 free, thinking of doing it 2x for 3 of these monitors or nv surround...
 
Got my 3x U2412's they look awesome. Is there a break in we should be doing?
I saw a LCD conditioning tab in the menu.

Will game on them tomorrow.
 
thanks yes i got my settings found them in opt789 comment
10e brightness 40, contrast 75, R 96, G 93, B 87, sharpness 40
FPhd brightness 43, contrast 75, R 97, G 92, B 94, sharpness 50
 
Here are some pics of my panel for uniformity and backlight bleed....

These were taken with my crappy Sony H2 camera (which has some issues). All pics were taken with the brightness and contrast set to 75 (per other pics shown here). All other settings are per 10e's.

This set was taken with a 1 second exposure:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/508/a1sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/b1sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/c1sec.jpg/


This set was taken with a 1.6 second exposure:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/a16sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/b16sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/c16sec.jpg/


This final set was a 0.6 second exposure:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/a06sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/b06sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/c06sec.jpg/

What do you guys think of the panel unformity and backlight bleed? Is it worth holding onto, or should I swap it out?

Thanks.
 
judging solely from the 1sec exposures, well... does all if it shift as you move your head side to side? If it dissapears when you are EXACTLY perpendicular over the target corner, then it's normal. If it's still present, then it's backlight bleed.

^^What I said may be wrong, best to wait for at least one other person to agree.
 
I seem to have a yellowish tint (from middle to the bottom) on mine and blacklight bleeding at the bottom corner on the right...anoyone experience that???
 
passinos said:
Got my 3x U2412's they look awesome. Is there a break in we should be doing?
I saw a LCD conditioning tab in the menu.



Will game on them tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Not really. Just use it as you would want to normally. The LCD conditioning item just flashes red, green, blue, black and white to remove any image retention, which doesn't seem to be an issue with the screen at all.

Yug3sh said:
Here are some pics of my panel for uniformity and backlight bleed....

These were taken with my crappy Sony H2 camera (which has some issues). All pics were taken with the brightness and contrast set to 75 (per other pics shown here). All other settings are per 10e's.

This set was taken with a 1 second exposure:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/508/a1sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/b1sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/c1sec.jpg/


This set was taken with a 1.6 second exposure:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/a16sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/b16sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/c16sec.jpg/


This final set was a 0.6 second exposure:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/a06sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/b06sec.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/c06sec.jpg/

What do you guys think of the panel unformity and backlight bleed? Is it worth holding onto, or should I swap it out?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

It doesn't seem like a concern to me. A 1.6 second exposure will amplify effects of backlight bleeding or any inconsistencies including IPS white glow.

Mine looked a lot like yours' on purchase and the bit of clouding/BLB on the top right is now absolutely gone. I also had a very very faint bit of BLB on the bottom left and it also is now completely absent.

It really does seem like the panel needs some settling time after shipping. I find that strange because a W-LED back-lit screen generates far less heat than most CCFL based screens, and yet maybe there is a bit of heat expansion and panel tightening that takes place.

Keep an eye on it for a few days and after about fifty hours of use see if it has changed, or try and take some more 1 second exposure pics like you did here with the same lighting conditions and from the same distance and post 'em.

Again, the great part is, with a new screen, the likelihood of getting a refurb back from Dell is nil, as they have no return stock, so they provide new ones.


itshardtochoosealcd said:
I seem to have a yellowish tint (from middle to the bottom) on mine and blacklight bleeding at the bottom corner on the right...anoyone experience that???
Click to expand...

Mine doesn't seem to change color on white from left-to-right or top-to-bottom. If it persists I would exchange it.
 
I am thinking about getting a third one of these monitors, and I noticed a number of you guys have three setup. To anyone with more than two of them, are you using two video cards? Is there a recommendation for a single card that can handle three of these monitors well?
 
opt789 said:
I am thinking about getting a third one of these monitors, and I noticed a number of you guys have three setup. To anyone with more than two of them, are you using two video cards? Is there a recommendation for a single card that can handle three of these monitors well?
Click to expand...

Nvidia requires two cards for the use of three monitors, AMD can use one card. For gaming you will need two cards anyway to get decent FPS on three screens. You will also want more VRAM, at least 2GB.
 
Can anyone provide some high quality pictures of the monitor please? I'm curious to know how good it looks when set up.
 
I'm worried that my desk is not deep enough for this monitor size. What is the recommended distance from eyes to screen?
 
Amaze said:
I'm worried that my desk is not deep enough for this monitor size. What is the recommended distance from eyes to screen?
Click to expand...

This is highly personal but studies have shown that people are usually more comfortable at distances exceeding the width of the screen.

So say a minimum of 20". I move between 24" to 36"
 
itshardtochoosealcd said:
I seem to have a yellowish tint (from middle to the bottom) on mine and blacklight bleeding at the bottom corner on the right...anoyone experience that???
Click to expand...

Yep, mine has it. It's noticeable on light colors, such as my gmail inbox.

I've got a replacement coming, and am hoping it doesn't have the yellow issue. Other than that, it's a great screen.
 
gauden44 said:
Yep, mine has it. It's noticeable on light colors, such as my gmail inbox.

I've got a replacement coming, and am hoping it doesn't have the yellow issue. Other than that, it's a great screen.
Click to expand...

I smell another "lottery" monitor from Dell.
It could be as good as you want but it's not possible that you need to be luck to get a good monitor.
 
sblantipodi said:
I smell another "lottery" monitor from Dell.
It could be as good as you want but it's not possible that you need to be luck to get a good monitor.
Click to expand...

What type of panel lottery? S-PVA instead of IPS?

I highly doubt if that was going to happen, it would not be occurring a month into production.... There will always be batch differences, and it may be that the slow production of this screen is because LG is ironing things out.

We need a larger base of screens out there to form an opinion one way or the other.
 
10e said:
What type of panel lottery? S-PVA instead of IPS?
Click to expand...

I'm talking about U2412M and panel problem.
Two U2412 sold on this forum and both have yellowish tint problem.

Since U2410 is known to be a "lottery monitor" I wish that U2412 will not be the same.
 
sblantipodi said:
I'm talking about U2412M and panel problem.
Two U2412 sold on this forum and both have yellowish tint problem.

Since U2410 is known to be a "lottery monitor" I wish that U2412 will not be the same.
Click to expand...

yeah, it sux, why do IPS and LED SCREENS all have the yellowish issue..I don't understand this!!!!!!
 
Many HardForum experts scoff at TN. I've been using a 17" Dell E173FP (TN/CCFL) for 7 years. When viewing a black screen, there's excellent screen uniformity, no backlight bleeding, no "glow," no dead pixels, no yellowish tinting. I recognize a 7 year-old TN is no match for the high quality of today's panels and I realize the old TN doesn't come close in terms of low black level. Anyway, I'm looking to upgrade to a 24" HD monitor for my new Win7 desktop and would like to get the best new panel available on the market. The Dell U2412M (e-IPS) and Samsung S24A650D (PVA) seem the two best candidates to fit the bill. I really like the clean look of those two monitors (matte black stand and narrow bezel, solid stand with hopefully little or no wobble). Either e-IPS/W-LED or PVA/W-LED should be superior to the old TN/CCFL.

I am finding it difficult to actually do the upgrade. I'm very concerned about the U2412M concerns expressed by HF contributors such as IPS glow, yellow tinting, backlight bleed, dead pixels, lack of screen uniformity, quality control issues, etc. And the preliminary reports trickling out on the new Samsung S24A650D include a different set of PVA-related possible concerns and issues. My old E173FP doesn't seem to have any of those obvious and annoying types of problems. It has a nice matte black bezel and very solid stand. Of course, the E173FP's viewing angles aren't good, the colors, contrast and black levels are so-so, and that's what you would expect from a TN panel.

I do have a few questions so let me get to them. Are the concerns and possible issues expressed by the HF contributors regarding U2412M and S24A650D negligible relative to the weaknesses of my 7 year-old TN/CCFL monitor? Or if I spring for a U2412M or S24A650D, is there a decent chance I'll end up in "RMA hell," returning/receiving multiple monitors? Maybe that's why so many people just take the typical cheap-o TN monitor that comes with a Dell, ASUS, or HP desktop. Convenient. No monitor searching, no worries about repeated RMAs, etc.

I always sit directly in front of my monitor so wide viewing angles are perhaps preferable but definitely not mandatory. Does viewing angle become an issue when moving from a 17" TN to 24" HD TN even if I always sit directly in front of the monitor? I primarily use my computer for office-type work (viewing PDFs, reading websites and viewing web videos, MS Word/Excel) which requires easy-to-read text quality. Secondarily, I view DVD movies which demands good color accuracy, contrast, and low black levels, although I'm not real picky about those things and don't have the high standards that regular HF contributors have about those characteristics.

I guess what I'm driving at is whether I should continue focusing on U2412M and S24A650D or should I turn to a TN monitor such as Dell P2411H or P2412H? Are there really any differences between the P2411H and P2412H (other than the name)? Early reports indicated the P2412H was going to be MVA but new reports say the P2412H will be TN/LED like the P2411H. So why is Dell using a new model name for it?
 
mon6937 said:
Many HardForum experts scoff at TN. I've been using a 17" Dell E173FP (TN/CCFL) for 7 years.
Click to expand...

Cheap TN monitors don't get subject to the same kind of scrutiny that that monitors costing twice as much do.

People also have unwarranted expectations coming from TN panels that colors will overwhelm with wonder, this is brought on by a few shallow thinkers harping on 6bit+FRC (which is now on IPS screens as well).

Here is a bit of comparison, from when I added a PRO IPS screen to my cheap TN.
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032929442&postcount=4

Note in the above linke that I have about zero issue with TN color, it is remarkably similar to a high end calibrated IPS.



But also do note that TN also glows from viewing angle shifts:

NEC IPS (left), Dell TN (right) :
planettiltao7.jpg


But IMO the real TN problem is the up/down viewing angle shift that is inescapable. I found this very annoying if trying to do anything like image enhancement work because gamma was different at the top/bottom of the screen by a fairly huge and obvious margin. This is pretty much a straight on shot from normal veiwing position. The blue background is NOT a gradient, but it looks like a gradient on a TN screen:
tnshift.jpg
 
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Snowdog said:
People also have unwarranted expectations coming from TN panels that colors will overwhelm with wonder, this is brought on by a few shallow thinkers harping on 6bit+FRC (which is now on IPS screens as well).
Click to expand...

I think its more caused by a lack of understanding what dithering is to begin with. They hear 6-bit+FRC (less colors + dithering) vs. true 8-bit (full 16.7M colors without dithering). So, its translated less colors vs. more colors and gets surprised when "ladida, the 6-bit+FRC shows 256 distinct shades on the color tests and the true 8-bit only shows 256 distinct shades too". :p

(I recon you know this Snowdog, so its more for others):

Earlier, the 6-bit+dithering was more about colors, since it only had (with dithering) up to 16.2M colors with only 253 shades per RGB, meaning lost shades vs. true 8-bit with 256 shades per RGB.

These days, even the cheapest TN's often get up to 16,7M colors showing full range of colors.

Another problem that has been (and still is, though to a less degree) with dithering on LCD's is that it still has to use its 262,144 shades available to simulate 16,777,216 shades.
This is done by either alternating between two colors to simulate a third, or by using a pattern of colors to simulate the missing color or both. This is how it looks like exaggerated:

Temporal dithering.
dynamic_dither.gif

From Lagom

and

samsung970_dithering.gif


from TFTCentral

As you can see, it adds noise, regardless if you can filter out the noise and notice it or not, its there.

The faster response time of todays monitors and the improvement in the dithering algorithm makes the different much less visually then it was earlier. In my opinion, for most cases it shouldn't matter with 6-bit+FRC vs. 8-bit, an definitely not to warrant the price of a true 8-bit. Its not a matter of amount of colors, but noise.

Some are more sensitive to noise (some to the point that they cannot stand certain lightbulbs even) and for those it might matter and some might want to avoid FRC errors that can occur if they anything color critical (in which I would never recommend a TN to begin with due to the lack of good image consistency that Snowdog illustrated well)

How much you notice and how much it matters, is said very well by XTknight on Lagom:

XTknight on Lagom said:
. However, what matters for you, the user, is whether the monitor can display all 256 shades without disturbing amounts of visible dithering. How much you notice dithering is a combination of factors such the response time of the monitor, how intelligent the dithering algorithm is, the voltage response curve of the LCD pixels, and finally the number of bits.
Click to expand...

So, basically people, don't be surprised if you have an 6-bit+FRC next to a true 8-bit screen and both are able to display the same colors. They are supposed to, thats what the FRC does and if it don't, its broken. ;)
 
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My personal opinion is Dell shouldn't have switched to a 6 bit panel. Technology should advance forward, not backwards...
 
NCX said:
Before bashing DV any further I suggest you compare some of their results to PRAD... If you want to talk about crappy sites/inacurate results head on over to FlatPanels...or better yet check out Cnet, a site that does not even bother to post their results.
Click to expand...
Agree about CNET, tho PRAD's review of the Dell U2410 seemed awfully idiosyncratic. In any case, has PRAD gone pay only for viewing the reviews? The U2412M looks that way here, even after logging into the forums.

I keep reading here about people calling up Dell and getting a better price. Is that Canada and Switzerland only, or has someone tried in the U.S.?
 
a_rabbit said:
Originally Posted by a_rabbit
Originally Posted by a_rabbit
Just a data point.

I ordered this on Saturday, July 30 -- 2-day air, full price.
They estimated delivery at Friday, Aug 5.
On Aug 4, they changed the ETA to Wed, Aug 10
Today, on Aug 9, they changed the ETA to Monday, August 15.

Way to go Dell!

I just got another automated e-mail ... my order is now delayed until Thursday, August 18. I wonder what's going to happen when midnight August 17 rolls around.

Has anyone else ordered Dell Home U.S.?
Oh look, it's the 17th, and another automated e-mail. ETA is now August 23.

I didn't hear from anyone else who ordered from Dell Home U.S. around the same time that's gotten theirs already, so I guess we're all in line.
Click to expand...

Now delayed to the August 26. I'll stop posting for now. I would like to hear if anyone ordered Dell Home U.S. around or after I did and got theirs.

It seems like the Dell ETA system just adds half a week or so automatically for this order. It'd be a bit more honest if they gave a real ETA.
 
Messerschmitt said:
My personal opinion is Dell shouldn't have switched to a 6 bit panel. Technology should advance forward, not backwards...
Click to expand...

Dell wanted an sRGB 24" panel for a business screen, and LG obliged. Simple as that.

genegold99 said:
Agree about CNET, tho PRAD's review of the Dell U2410 seemed awfully idiosyncratic. In any case, has PRAD gone pay only for viewing the reviews? The U2412M looks that way here, even after logging into the forums.

I keep reading here about people calling up Dell and getting a better price. Is that Canada and Switzerland only, or has someone tried in the U.S.?
Click to expand...

Chrome can log you in and translate German reviews unlike trying to use Google Translate. But yes, if a review has a red circle or dot, it's pay pay pay.

Needless to say it received a good rating for 16:10 aspect ratio versus 16:9, good viewing angles, speedy response and low input lag, as well as high contrast.

sblantipodi said:
so do you think that switching from a 8bit panel to a 6bit is a techonology breakthrough?
Click to expand...

Don't know but it seems to be a new trend with both Samsung and LG: 6-bit + FRC with sRGB gamut and 8-bit + FRC with wide gamut.
 
10e: can my yellowish tint on my monitor be due because of my dvi connection on my macbook pro or it's really the screen? or can it be because of panel uniformity or is it really just a tinting? All the monitors I've bought from Dell had the yellowish (u2311h and this one), so I am wondering if it's not better just to get my money back instead of playing lottery with Dell...but then, what other good monitor can I get that doesn't cost 500 dollars...
 
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