Same here.
I like the card and the performance. I think they missed the mark on pricing. $129 might be a good launch point. Especially with the 5770-6870's still providing good value and performance.
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XFX R7770 Black Edition Super Overclocked Review @ [H]
- Thread starter Brent_Justice
- Start date
Same here.
I like the card and the performance. I think they missed the mark on pricing. $129 might be a good launch point. Especially with the 5770-6870's still providing good value and performance.
heatthegreat
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I can't wait until the 6800 series is off the shelves. When the 7700 series is the low end card, when the price of it falls to about $130-$150. And that will be around this summer. People when saying it's a great card for 1920x1200 and lower budget machines. Right now, AMD is smiling. They have the angry/savvy buyers scooping up the 6850/70's, they have a newbies getting the newer tech in the 7700. Good job AMD. The 7800 series is what I'm keeping my eye on... if it can match the 6900 series in performance stock and go to close to 580 speeds for about $250, that would be ideal. But I do see a problem... Unlike the 6800 series, the 6900 series will be around for awhile methinks... meaning AMD won't be able to get away with pricing the 7800 series higher or at the same price as the 6900 series with the same performance. A 7870/50 will HAVE to be priced at $250/200, or people are just going to get 6970's/50's even though the 7800 isn't the 6900 replacement.
I'm prediciting this when 7700,7800,7900 are finally on shelves toghether :
NVIDIA releases Kepler (GK104) March/April ( releases a 580 equiv for $350-400)
7700 (replacing 6770 but has 6850/70 speed) pricepoint - $130-150
7800 (replacing 6870/50 but has 6970/50 speed) - $200-250
7900 (replacing 6970/50 but with 40-60% more performance than 6900 series) $400-450
Am I far off?
I'm prediciting this when 7700,7800,7900 are finally on shelves toghether :
NVIDIA releases Kepler (GK104) March/April ( releases a 580 equiv for $350-400)
7700 (replacing 6770 but has 6850/70 speed) pricepoint - $130-150
7800 (replacing 6870/50 but has 6970/50 speed) - $200-250
7900 (replacing 6970/50 but with 40-60% more performance than 6900 series) $400-450
Am I far off?
I'm sure a lot of people are still going crazy over the price/performance of these cards, and I agree with them. When the Radeon 4850/4870 came out almost 4 years ago they were amazing performers for the price, from the beginning. As a 4870 owner, I can't see a 7770 being a worthwhile upgrade for me. And something tells me that the 7870 won't be enough of a jump for 5870/6950 owners to upgrade. Here's hoping Kepler will be the next 4870 or GTX 460.
What has AMD shown lately to make you think that will happen?
The same thing could have been said about the 7770, that it will HAVE to be priced at $150, or people are going to get the 6870/50's even though the 7770 isn't the 6800 replacement.
6870's are going to dry up fast now that we know what the 7770 has to offer.
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heatthegreat
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That's where AMD will finally run into a problem with the pricing if they don't play it right. I don't see the 6900 series drying up as fast the 6800 series.. unless they drop the prices from $300ish to $200 ish for the 6970 which I don't see them doing. Remember, I was merely saying the pricing scheme was good for the 7700 series and the low-mid range cards, and I never mentioned until now about how the pricing would affect the 7800 line as the discussion wasn't about the 7800 line of cards.
FearTheCow
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How hard is it for you to understand that the 7770 (over clocked 10%) gives the exact same game play experience as a 6870 and a 560 ti? Further, how is it so hard for you to understand that the 6870 was priced at $240 when released, thus, the 7770 gives us last years mid-high range card performance for $80 less.
Why dont you go back to the Nvidia forum already and keep wishing for the mythical Kepler that is supposedly around every corner ready to jump out and completely decimate AMD.
Honestly, I am thrilled with the 7770, while it may be priced "too high", it has good performance, runs cool, and uses less power.
As much I don't like linking to S|A, here is something from September, about TSMC raising the prices of 28-nm wafers 15-25%: http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/08/exclusive-tsmc-raises-prices-on-amd-and-nvidia/
Charlie D (cringe) said:
The problem with consumerism is that consumers are ignorant of and do not care about the actual costs involved with production, and whine and moan when things are priced higher than normal.
If you want to blame someone for the high price of the Radeon 7K cards, blame TSMC, they increased the wafer costs.
Jeffredo
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Check the "upgrade options" paragraph on the last page. He did say the HD 7770 is an upgrade option for the GTX 560 "non-Ti". Every other review I've read of the XFX HD 7770 shows it quite a ways behind that card and more-or-less (oftentimes less) on par with the stock GTX 460 and HD 6850.
cannondale06
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the fact is that the $180 factory oced 7770 has the SAME performance as the 6850 NOT the 6870. the 6850 cost $180 when it came out 16 months ago but so what? at best that means NO progress in performance per dollar for 16 months even using launch prices. on top of that when you buy a card you look at current prices and the 6850 is much cheaper and just as fast as the XFX factory oced 7770. basically every other review site gets it so why cant you?
and why try and turn this into an AMD vs Nvidia fight when that has nothing to do with the comments?
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I can see the gripe about the price but I want to see its performance after voltage tweaking and overclocking. If it improves to any where near the same degree as the 7900, it would beat a 6870...most which don't get shit all performance from overclocking.
You sure about that?
cannondale06
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yes it uses GCN. did you even look at any reviews?
I did, but there was a confusion as to what architecture will be used by 78x0 and 77x0 series - many websites previously reported that only the high end 79x0 will be GCN and all other cards will be VLIW:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...-mix-gcn-with-vliw4--vliw5-architectures.aspx
That is why I asked if this information is 100% accurate, if it is GCN, then that's great.
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...-mix-gcn-with-vliw4--vliw5-architectures.aspx
That is why I asked if this information is 100% accurate, if it is GCN, then that's great.
It would be truly impressive, if Radeon 6850 did not exist, which is both cheaper AND faster.
FearTheCow
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the 6850 and 6870 are only cheaper because they are EOL.
CrescentMoon
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Yeah, but even if the 6850 jumped back to its release price, the 7770 would be a better deal only because of its power efficiency and some minor features, and not because of its performance. Now that is acceptable for an HTPC card, but speaking of gaming cards... that's just not enough.
So you'd rather believe an old rumor over actual reviews?
As to BSnews... goes to show their credibility.
Where exactly did I state that I'd rather believe old rumors over actual reviews? I saw some contradictory information regarding the architecture and sought confirmation. When you confirmed it, I acknowledged the fact and explained where my confusion was coming from. Sheesh.
It's almost like you're intentionally ignoring the prices of the 77XX cards. EOL or not, the 68XX is a faster card for less money. No one was ever expecting these to replace the 68XX series. But please, don't let basic logic get in your way.
6870 was 259.99 when I bought mine on new egg on launch day.
If I had the ability to buy a a card that gave me the same exact game play feel for 159 I would have jumped all over it.
You people that are going crazy over its price simply want AMD to make poor choices and defy logic for your amusement. AMD is not going to price its chips cheaper than its old mid range eol chips. Nvidia wouldnt do it, Intel wouldnt do it, so AMD wont either.
The 7770 series is for HTPCs I mean fuck just look at the damn thing.
No need for external power, small card, possibly able to be passively cooled. Its just itching for the chance to be put in a sff system.
The 7770 and 7750 were meant to compete with the GTX550 and HD6750/6770.
People are taking this moment to bash it since the product line isnt fully out.
They know full well that a low end card that performs as well as a high mid range card is a great card. Its not 9800XT or 8800GTX type of card where its performance is legendary but unlike Kepler GCN actually exists and can be purchased.
If I had the ability to buy a a card that gave me the same exact game play feel for 159 I would have jumped all over it.
You people that are going crazy over its price simply want AMD to make poor choices and defy logic for your amusement. AMD is not going to price its chips cheaper than its old mid range eol chips. Nvidia wouldnt do it, Intel wouldnt do it, so AMD wont either.
The 7770 series is for HTPCs I mean fuck just look at the damn thing.
No need for external power, small card, possibly able to be passively cooled. Its just itching for the chance to be put in a sff system.
The 7770 and 7750 were meant to compete with the GTX550 and HD6750/6770.
People are taking this moment to bash it since the product line isnt fully out.
They know full well that a low end card that performs as well as a high mid range card is a great card. Its not 9800XT or 8800GTX type of card where its performance is legendary but unlike Kepler GCN actually exists and can be purchased.
cannondale06
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who cares what you paid 16 months ago for a 6870? the 7770 is a lower end card that is slower than a 6870 while costing the same or more than you can get a 6870 for NOW. and the 7770 is only 30% faster overall than the 5770 which is now 2.5 years old. the 7770 is a joke for it's current selling price and I guess basically all of the other reviewers are crazy too because that's also their conclusion for the most part.
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JustinCorrigible
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It almost sounds like AMD pissed in everyone's Cheerios.
PureBlackFire
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lol.
JustinCorrigible
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First off, the score was for this specific card, not the 7700 series as a whole. What this card pulled off impressed me. It wasn't mind blowing, but it has good potential. Second, it's more expensive to be making these 28nm cards right now as someone already stated, so it's of course going to be more expensive to buy them. AMD doesn't have inexpensive wafers like they did with 40nm, which they used for over 2 years.
Bickering for what?
Bickering for what?
Cmustang87
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There's 2 different arguments going on here:
You can get a faster card for the same price.
AMD is pricing to sell EOL products and allow the new low end to replace the previous gen mid-range.
I think we can all agree if you are looking for bang for buck right now a 6850/6870 is a good way to go. If you want 7770, you will pay a bit more $/performance ratio for early adoption fee.
That's business and that's how companies move products and adjust to the new supply.
Water is wet, the sky is blue.
Now, can we move on?
EDIT: Some spelling and punctuation.
You can get a faster card for the same price.
AMD is pricing to sell EOL products and allow the new low end to replace the previous gen mid-range.
I think we can all agree if you are looking for bang for buck right now a 6850/6870 is a good way to go. If you want 7770, you will pay a bit more $/performance ratio for early adoption fee.
That's business and that's how companies move products and adjust to the new supply.
Water is wet, the sky is blue.
Now, can we move on?
EDIT: Some spelling and punctuation.
Bottom line is I bet they don't sell a lot of these at the suggested retail price? Yes they are in business to make money but it only works if you can actually sell them. Sitting on the shelves because most people think the are over priced does nothing for their bottom line.
PureBlackFire
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good post.
I think the majority of people only have asingle monitor capable of 1980 x 1200 at best so any of these 3 would work well with the 560-ti giving best performance . sure the nvidia runs hotterand uses a bit more power but itsalso faster .. In this price range Nvidia still wins with the last gen cards wait til the next gen from nvidia in this range . this is the sweet spot for sales the high end cards are not for the average person , although it seems review sites focus on the stuff most of us are not going to use , I'm happy to see a review of te more mainstream stuff here .
Anandtech:
"Ignoring the current price of the 6850 for the moment, on average the 7770 delivers 90% of the 6850’s gaming performance for 90% of the 6850’s launch price. In other words in 16 months AMD has moved nowhere along the price/performance curve – if you go by launch prices you’re getting the same amount of performance per dollar today as you did in October of 2010."
Hardwarecanucks:
"Initially released at $149 nearly a year ago (and now retailing for about $119) this Barts LE-based card manages to play on a nearly level footing with the HD 7770 most games. If you can’t see the ramifications of this, let’s make it clear: $159 doesn’t buy you an ounce more performance now than it did 10 months and a generation of GPUs ago. We can talk all day about how the Cape Verde cores are able to offer similar performance with less power, less heat and less noise but budget conscious gamers don’t usually give a damn about any of that. They care about a great bang for buck ratio and that’s precisely where the HD 7770 falls on its face."
cannondale06
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sorry but just like with the 5830 and 8600gt reviews, Hard got it wrong this time too. overall, the factory overclocked 7770 matches the 6850 not the 6870. the 6850 can be had for much cheaper. a stock 7770 is only about 30% faster overall than the 2.5 year old 5770. basically every other review agrees with the vast majority here that the 7770 is not a good card for the money.
The H tested the actual games, they didn’t just compare some benches and then give a %. They played the games and found that a 7770 performed just as well as a 6870 and 560ti. It’s rather telling that you quote only the name of the site from my post but not the actual word for word content. Is there something in that text that you don’t want to come to terms with?
Only 6 months ago if someone wanted performance of that caliber you would have to tell them they would be paying 200 to 190 dollars to obtain it. Now you can get that performance at 159 with no external power and light cooling. You would never have told someone, "Oh the low end 6770 and GTX550 play BF3 Great at 1920 x 1200!" Why? Cause the low end couldn’t maintain the fps in those games. Now the low end is capable of pushing those frames and that is an improvement. You can sit here all day with your green paint brush and try to change everyone else’s opinion and cast others as wrong but it’s not going to do anything.
At the end of the day AMD produced a physical, purchasable product while Nvidia has nothing but rumors and disinformation. You crap on every AMD product both for being too expensive for too little performance and also for being too expensive when holding the performance crown. No matter what AMD does you will always find a way to suckle on the negative. You have been this way since you first began posting here. My guess is the next move is to say AMD and [H]ard OCP are in cahoots. Go and read the 8800GTX review and the 2900XT review. It’s clear as day that Kyle and Steve pick no sides. They receive free products from almost all the top names out there and have no reason to submit to the will of any of these IHVs.
Only 6 months ago if someone wanted performance of that caliber you would have to tell them they would be paying 200 to 190 dollars to obtain it. Now you can get that performance at 159 with no external power and light cooling. You would never have told someone, "Oh the low end 6770 and GTX550 play BF3 Great at 1920 x 1200!" Why? Cause the low end couldn’t maintain the fps in those games. Now the low end is capable of pushing those frames and that is an improvement. You can sit here all day with your green paint brush and try to change everyone else’s opinion and cast others as wrong but it’s not going to do anything.
At the end of the day AMD produced a physical, purchasable product while Nvidia has nothing but rumors and disinformation. You crap on every AMD product both for being too expensive for too little performance and also for being too expensive when holding the performance crown. No matter what AMD does you will always find a way to suckle on the negative. You have been this way since you first began posting here. My guess is the next move is to say AMD and [H]ard OCP are in cahoots. Go and read the 8800GTX review and the 2900XT review. It’s clear as day that Kyle and Steve pick no sides. They receive free products from almost all the top names out there and have no reason to submit to the will of any of these IHVs.
yeah I agree....all this quoting articles and comparing price/performance vs previous generation/newest generation curves and...blah.
JustinCorrigible
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I swear, if AMD released the 7800 series before 7700 no one would be bitching so much about having an older gen card on a cheaper process costing less as its EOL comes near and performing ever so slightly more.
Think about how much more efficient the new architecture is and the clock speed headroom. 640 shaders vs what the 6850 and 6870 have. 1 GHz +. With the 6850 and 6870 you have an older architecture on a cheaper process. It damn well better not cost as much at this point in time. I just don't see this as an issue, especially at the price range at which this card debuted.
Think about how much more efficient the new architecture is and the clock speed headroom. 640 shaders vs what the 6850 and 6870 have. 1 GHz +. With the 6850 and 6870 you have an older architecture on a cheaper process. It damn well better not cost as much at this point in time. I just don't see this as an issue, especially at the price range at which this card debuted.
BababooeyHTJ
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How the hell did you get to that conclusion? At 1920x1200 in BF3 the GTX560ti is still almost 25% faster than that overclocked 7770. The difference in performance is even higher in Skyrim.
I had been having the feeling that [H] reviews are AMD biased but this kind of puts that feeling over the top. I don't even know how you can give that pos a silver medal.
I had been having the feeling that [H] reviews are AMD biased but this kind of puts that feeling over the top. I don't even know how you can give that pos a silver medal.
cannondale06
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are you paranoid and delusional? when I quoted you that's all that showed. I could manually add the text in but why would I do that when my comment is directly below yours? and I said they got this review wrong like the 5830 and 8600gt. last time I looked the 8600gt was an Nvidia card so if this was also an Nvidia card I would be saying the same thing.
other sites review more games and at more settings and compare it to more cards which gives a better idea of how the card compares overall. and I hate to burst your bubble but most reviews do use real gameplay for many and sometimes all of their tests.
I dont care that Brent personally found the factory oced 7770 delivered the same playable performance. all that means is that the 6850 must give the same playable performance too in those games. the card is slower than the 6870 overall and that is a fact. it basically matches the 6850 which can be had for much cheaper.
BababooeyHTJ
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By his logic should the playable performance between 7950 and 7970 be the same as well? GTX580 and GTX570? GTX570 and GTX560ti?
Come on, I don't even know what to say about that review and thats with an overclocked model. I remember all of the bitching when sites were using an overclocked GTX460 in the 6870 review. The fact that 6870 overclocks like a turd makes it a more fair comparison too. GTX560ti on the other hand tends to be a good clocker.
After reading this I'm not going to be in a rush to check [H] video card reviews in the future.