XFX R7770 Black Edition Super Overclocked Review @ [H]

Brent_Justice said:
An excellent point I discovered during my testing. Makes me think Pitcairn is going to be something special. Here's hoping.
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I'm very excited for Pitcairn. I'm hoping I may be able to power three 1080p monitors off one card with highest quality in game settings. That would be amazing to me for a $200-300 card. It also makes me excited to see what nvidia will offer for competition!

Also, I understand that the 6870 is cheaper and technically better, but it is not the equivalent of last years 7770 and it's launch price point was higher than the 7770. The 7770 vastly outperforms the 6770, which is last years equivalent. When the 7870 is released, then we can start comparing it to it's "last year" equivalent, the 6870.
 
Fantasyalive said:
When the 6870 launched you could get the 5870 for cheaper and better performance at under $200 on sale. This happens and its nothing new. Those cards still got great reviews then. Why all the fuss now?
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And when the 5770 was launched you could get a 4870 (slightly faster in most cases) or a 4890 (faster in almost every case) for cheaper. Smart shoppers will be buying up 6850's and 6870's right now while they are priced low to clear inventory.

I ended up buying my 5770 at release even though I could have gotten a 4800 card for the same price because the 5700 series added some significant new features over the 4700 series (DX11, triple display, drastically better thermal).

I don't think the 7770 has enough new features to justify buying a slower and more expensive card, but thankfully my 5770 is still doing just fine so I probably won't be looking to upgrade for another two generations of cards.
 
Kyle, I was wondering if it would be possible (probably not at release, I'm guessing) to put a "buy it at these retailers: Newegg, Amazon, TigerDirect" link with your affiliate link at the end of the reviews? I am in the market for a new video card, and would like to use your affiliate link to buy them (I use them when I can to support the [H]). Just a suggestion...

While this is slightly slower than the 6870 for more money, I'm wondering if drivers could be an issue that may bring higher performance?
 
Cripes, I was looking forward to getting a 7870 but I wonder how much they are going to charge for that fucking card? Come on NV release something already....anything! :(
 
Mike89 said:
Couple of problem I have with this review.

First it gets beat by the GTX 560 by over 10 fps in all the game comparisons but is still touted as the same game experience. 10 fps faster is not the same experience.

Second, AMD's card a generation back is beating this card in all the game comparisons yet it stills get a Silver Award.

I gotta read some other reviews to get an idea how much Hardocp was paid by AMD to do this review.

Way too favorable a review IMO.
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2 points

1.) It all goes back to how we evaluate video cards, to find the highest playable settings, and a similar experience. Yes, GTX 560 Ti was technically faster in framerates, but framerates are not everything. We were able to match all the same graphics settings with 6870 and 560 Ti. Therefore, the game looked exactly the same between the XFX R7770, 6870 and 560 Ti. Next, the game felt the same. Yes, 560 Ti had higher framerates, but the XFX R7770 was very smooth and playable. There's just no way around that, it was playable, and so yes, they had a similar experience. Skyrim had such great performance there is no way you could tell any card apart in a blind taste test. Again, the experience WAS equal. The XFX R7770 was as playable as the 560 Ti and 6870.

2.) A point I think a lot are overlooking is that the 7770 is competing with last generations 6870. AMD has improved the 7770 over the 6770 quite a bit, and brought the level of a 6770 up to where the next highest card sits, the 6870 for this generation. That is a generational improvement. This card is as fast as last generations next fastest card in the lineup. That's an impressive improvement of performance compared to where the 6770 sat in the last generation. If the 7770 is performing as good as a 6870, it could mean the 7850 and 7870 could be competing where the 6950 and 6970 were, moving up the line as well, improving a whole notch better than where the 6850 and 6870 use to sit. The 7870 could be as fast as a 6970, completely beating the old 6870 two fold. That's good, and that's the kind of improvements we want to see in each generation.
 
Brent_Justice said:
2 points

1.) It all goes back to how we evaluate video cards, to find the highest playable settings, and a similar experience. Yes, GTX 560 Ti was technically faster in framerates, but framerates are not everything. We were able to match all the same graphics settings with 6870 and 560 Ti. Therefore, the game looked exactly the same between the XFX R7770, 6870 and 560 Ti. Next, the game felt the same. Yes, 560 Ti had higher framerates, but the XFX R7770 was very smooth and playable. There's just no way around that, it was playable, and so yes, they had a similar experience. Skyrim had such great performance there is no way you could tell any card apart in a blind taste test. Again, the experience WAS equal. The XFX R7770 was as playable as the 560 Ti and 6870.

2.) A point I think a lot are overlooking is that the 7770 is competing with last generations 6870. AMD has improved the 7770 over the 6770 quite a bit, and brought the level of a 6770 up to where the next highest card sits, the 6870 for this generation. That is a generational improvement. This card is as fast as last generations next fastest card in the lineup. That's an impressive improvement of performance compared to where the 6770 sat in the last generation. If the 7770 is performing as good as a 6870, it could mean the 7850 and 7870 could be competing where the 6950 and 6970 were, moving up the line as well, improving a whole notch better than where the 6850 and 6870 use to sit. The 7870 could be as fast as a 6970, completely beating the old 6870 two fold. That's good, and that's the kind of improvements we want to see in each generation.
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If they release the 7870 at the 6870's original price point of $239 dollars then I'll buy into that but, I doubt it. Lately something tells me that won't happen until Kepler is released.

They are starting to charge more for ALMOST the same performance (but not quite) of the older cards, I don't see how that can be a good thing.
 
It looked like the big reason for further gains when this 7770 was overclocked was due to the memory rather than the extra 40MHz on the core.

The price for 7770 series cards seems reasonable. Stock cards are ~$160 which is where the 5770 launched. Factory overclock plus non-ref cooler equals a $20 surcharge (which is somehow a $50 surcharge for the same cooler on the 79xx series cards). The only reason 6770 cards were so comparatively cheap was because the 6770 is a 5770 with a number bump and improved HDMI firmware.
 
Let me see if I can make this even more clear: A $159-$179 video card sits where at launch, last year, a $239 video card use to sit.

We are getting last years $239 performance, for $159.

That, IMO, is GOOD, and an improvement generationaly.

Its an improvement in performance for this price point compared to last generation.
 
Brent_Justice said:
Let me see if I can make this even more clear: A $159-$179 video card sits where at launch, last year, a $239 video card use to sit.

We are getting last years $239 performance, for $159.

That, IMO, is GOOD, and an improvement generationaly.

Its an improvement in performance for this price point compared to last generation.
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Brent, I know what your saying but it's not the same....You are getting the feel of last years performance, not the same performance. Which may hinder it (not feel the same) in certain other games. I like the card, I just thinks it's $20 overpriced. But great review as always!
 
Let's think about it. 7770 is more expensive then 6850. So if you buy a 7770 because you want the newest tech AMD wins because you are buying the new product for a premium price, if you buy a 6850 because you want the extra performance AMD wins because you are buying the old product and getting old stock off the shelf for a non-discount price.

Does anyone really expect them to undercut their old products saying "No guys its cool, we're swimming in so much money over here, we'll sell these for less then the old stuff". If they priced the 7770 lower then the 6850 currently is they could end up with the same sales as they would keeping things the way they are - why not make some more money and clear out old stock at the same time?

When these are no longer brand new cards and 68xx stock dries up, 77xx prices will drop.

Fact - early adopters pay a premium. Does anyone around here actually expect (demand) otherwise? Welcome to capitalism in a market full of products you don't need.
 
I don't remotely understand why people are again busting AMD's balls on pricing.

They shoulda charged more for the 69xx series, people are retarded over that one generation being cheaper and assume it's always like that, or always will be.
 
6870 is faster hmmms...


Well at least the power requirement is knocked down to one 6 pin connector. It does offer the new technologies like dx 11.1, and eye effinity 2.0.

guess the 6870's are going to hold their value until they are EOL. I'm really waiting for the 7870.

As others have said, it will likely be something special.
 
I'm interested in seeing the Crossfire results (and especially power draw)

This card is a little better than my GTX 460 768mb but requires one less 6-pin to do it. Crossfire would be feasible in my system and only cost $70 more than what my current card did when I bought it. Well, at least the MSRP at the time
 
stealthy123 said:
I don't remotely understand why people are again busting AMD's balls on pricing.

They shoulda charged more for the 69xx series, people are retarded over that one generation being cheaper and assume it's always like that, or always will be.
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I agree but once you set certain price/performance expectations you don't go backwards on performance and not expect backlash...that's just stupid.
 
stealthy123 said:
I don't remotely understand why people are again busting AMD's balls on pricing.

They shoulda charged more for the 69xx series, people are retarded over that one generation being cheaper and assume it's always like that, or always will be.
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Shhhh !

Sounds like marketing talk to me from a competing manufacturer.

Opposite marketing slogan once a completing product is released slightly beating the competition at a substantial price premium: "You gotta pay to play"
 
I understand the whole thing with every beating it up for Price/performance but its keeping up to the 6800s using 640 sp's vs 960/1140.

The efficiency of the new architecture is great! Using 66%/57% the Steams its doing the same thing Game Play wise. This is really what we should be talking about and really being excited for. A 1/3 to 1/2 improvment in GFX efficiency in 1 generation. THATS FREAKIN' SWEET!

And yes price is up but is everyone forgetting the price of the 6770 when they first came out?
And Nvidia has no competition with current gen yet so AMD is gonna get what they can for them for the moment. This is the same Strategy that was used by AMD during the AMD64 days. They came out with it first and when Intel brought out their chips they cut price.

And I'm sure they are still working out all of the kinks of the manufacturing process.

These will drop much closer to the 100$ mark by late this year.
 
cageymaru said:
Cannondale06, stop and take a breath. I agree with you about the current pricing. We all do. Nobody is discrediting you; we all agree including Brent. But those cards will be gone soon is what we are saying and the new cards will go through their life cycle in the same way as the old cards would you not agree?
...
So when the old stuff is gone off the shelves and we aren't price comparing 6800's with 7700's, Nvidia isn't discounting the 660 series to compete with the discounted 6800 series; I think these lil engines that could will be a great value. And more than likely AMD will discount them a bit as they always do 3 months after launch.

Then value gamers can have their cake and eat it too.
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I'm glad to see some people understand. I'm certainly not excited about the product and today I would choose a 6870 over a 7770. But this summer when the 6870's are gone, the 7770 is the card to recommend (or a used 6870).

I will be disappointed to see the 7870 priced at $260 and perform the same as the 6950. That's what's going to happen.

7850 = $200
7870 = $260

They need a card at $200 but the trend predicts it will not be as fast as the 6950. That will be the 7850.
 
stealthy123 said:
I don't remotely understand why people are again busting AMD's balls on pricing.

They shoulda charged more for the 69xx series, people are retarded over that one generation being cheaper and assume it's always like that, or always will be.
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Why would you agree a company should charge more for a product, which ends up leading to you having less?
 
Brent_Justice said:
2 points
1.) It all goes back to how we evaluate video cards, to find the highest playable settings, and a similar experience. Yes, GTX 560 Ti was technically faster in framerates, but framerates are not everything. We were able to match all the same graphics settings with 6870 and 560 Ti. Therefore, the game looked exactly the same between the XFX R7770, 6870 and 560 Ti. Next, the game felt the same. Yes, 560 Ti had higher framerates, but the XFX R7770 was very smooth and playable. There's just no way around that, it was playable, and so yes, they had a similar experience. Skyrim had such great performance there is no way you could tell any card apart in a blind taste test. Again, the experience WAS equal. The XFX R7770 was as playable as the 560 Ti and 6870.
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Yeah, it is playable now, but not too future-proof for my test. In a few months games may be released which may for example run with 30 fps on faster cards (6850, 560Ti), but on the objectively slower 7770 it will already be below 30fps with the same amount of details.
 
Simplex said:
Yeah, it is playable now, but not too future-proof for my test. In a few months games may be released which may for example run with 30 fps on faster cards (6850, 560Ti), but on the objectively slower 7770 it will already be below 30fps with the same amount of details.
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This card is giving you the option of playing a game on it's highest playable settings, for a low-budget and supposedly low performance purchase. True, in a few game generations you will not be able to play on highest settings, that however is expected. It's truly impressive that this low-end card can play today's demanding games on highest playable settings.
 
Maplehamwich said:
This card is giving you the option of playing a game on it's highest playable settings, for a low-budget and supposedly low performance purchase. True, in a few game generations you will not be able to play on highest settings, that however is expected. It's truly impressive that this low-end card can play today's demanding games on highest playable settings.
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They are not charging the price of a low budget card...That would be the sub $100 mark.
 
was the AMD hate on this forum so rampant before? I swear it seems like the tone has changed completely from what I remember.

some of you would complain if AMD paid you to get their cards, if you hate AMD so much, why do you even read AMD reviews?
 
Great review. But...

costs too damn much. Where the 7970 and 7950 either didn't have a competitor or blew away its competitor at the same price respectively, here AMD is competing against itself and isn't able to pull away anywhere but power consumption-to-performance. It wouldn't be such a big deal if the 6xxx or 5xxx cards were nowhere to be found or were piss-poor performers, but in fact they were both great generations in both aspects.

This card seems to be a case of AMD tripping over itself because of the capability and availability of its previous gen cards. They should either change their MSRPs on the new generation to accurately represent price-to-performance against competing cards (like they did with the 7970/7950) or had the retailers clear their inventory of the 6xxx/5xxx in preparation for these newer cards. The fact that I can choose between a better performing cheaper 6870 and a higher priced and worse performing 7770 means they've messed up somewhere. The 6870 is easily the winner. Granted, it's not all bad because nvidia really doesn't have a single card other than perhaps the 560Ti-448 that's a good bargain so if I had to buy over again I'd go AMD anyway and they'd make $$ regardless of which card I'd choose to buy.

Kepler, where are you =X

If you take current pricing out of the equation, these cards are amazing. They absolutely sip power and offer fantastic performance on single monitor setups for what is (or should and perhaps will be) a GPU that will cost a hair over $100. Makes me wonder just what sort of strange concoctions AMD has brewing for mobile GPUs.
 
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xBanzai89 said:
Why would you agree a company should charge more for a product, which ends up leading to you having less?
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I'll wager it's because he's:

A. Stupidly rich and enjoys watching the gap between himself and the little people below him grow even further.

B. Has a retarded sense of consumerism/spirit of progress and a bad gauge on personal finances. He will not be satisfied until he can reach a point where he can spend everything he has while getting almost nothing in return.

Given the ratio of rich to poor... I'm going to say scenario A. is unlikely... :D

/sarcasm off
 
Not as good as I hoped it would be. Hopefully we will see non reference with at least 192bit memory interface.
 
...I don't really see this card's niche. Where does it fit in? To me it seem like an over-priced 6870. :X

It needs more features(i.e. more graphic memory or bigger memory bus) to stand out of the 6870's shadow. It's almost like they created this card to help sell the 6870 so they can discontinue that model and start selling the 7770's. :eek:
 
pelo said:
Where the 7970 and 7950 either didn't have a competitor or blew away its competitor at the same price respectively, here AMD is competing against itself and isn't able to pull away anywhere but power consumption-to-performance.
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This is where you are mistaken. No company in it's right mind will compete against itself. This holds true for AMD and the current situation. They have priced their latest product with the mindset that they have little to no competition at the moment. If you had read the first five pages worth of comments, you'd be better educated as to why they are doing this. It make sense as to why they are doing it, but it doesn't make it any more pleasant to stomach. ... But hey... they're not a charity. They'd leave us penniless if they could get away with it.

stealthy123 said:
was the AMD hate on this forum so rampant before? I swear it seems like the tone has changed completely from what I remember.
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It's not so much hate for AMD, it's hate for the lack of competition that NVidia has brought to the table. I'm sure there would be just as much bitching (well maybe less given their history of high prices) for Nvidia if they pulled the same bullshit and AMD was out in left field scratching it's ass uselessly.

The general concensus is that we're paying the same price to performance ratio now that we would be paying nearly a year ago. That's usually not cool in this market.

Sometimes I wish Intel had gotten it's shit together and became a major player in the graphics industry. We could certainly use more competition right about now...
 
mekkanic said:
...I don't really see this card's niche. Where does it fit in? To me it seem like an over-priced 6870. :X

It needs more features(i.e. more graphic memory or bigger memory bus) to stand out of the 6870's shadow. It's almost like they created this card to help sell the 6870 so they can discontinue that model and start selling the 7770's. :eek:
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QFT
 
Seraphical said:
This is where you are mistaken. No company in it's right mind will compete against itself. This holds true for AMD and the current situation. They have priced their latest product with the mindset that they have little to no competition at the moment. If you had read the first five pages worth of comments, you'd be better educated as to why they are doing this. It make sense as to why they are doing it, but it doesn't make it any more pleasant to stomach. ... But hey... they're not a charity. They'd leave us penniless if they could get away with it.
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Read the entire post before you make ignorant comments. I said that AMD is winning anyway, despite this card not being priced according to what it offers against the competition, because its only competition at the moment is AMD itself. This isn't something that's meant literally, where the 6xxx fanboys within AMD HQ are throwing water balloons and insulting the 7xxx devs for making a shitty GPU, but rather that their video cards are competing against AMD video cards and either way the winner is AMD. nVidia is nowhere to be seen outside of maybe 1-2 GPUs. They could have priced these things at $300 and they'd still be doing well, because even if it didn't sell the other cards that are priced appropriately would. But that's missing the point...

That doesn't mean these stock 7770s shouldn't be in the current 6850 range with regards to price. They're a new gen and there's obvious advantages of 28nm vs 40nm, but above all is performance and considering the current pricing you're better off with a 6850/6870.

So are they priced wrong? That's definitely a yes.

Does AMD care when they're still selling their own cards? No, not really. Unless there's a vast difference in profit margins between these two generations, I don't think they give 2 shits until Kepler comes out. They had the lower/mid tier of the market already.
 
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Great review and use of the English language! Always a great read and enlightening to the hardware being reviewed. Thanks!!



gathagan said:
Grammar nitpick on 3rd paragraph of the Where does the Radeon HD 7770 Sit? section:
"The XFX R7770 Black Edition was able to not only playable at 1920x1200, but in some games like..."
Should be :
"The XFX R7770 Black Edition was not only playable at 1920x1200, but in some games like..."
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:rolleyes:

Why are people like you, like you? Get your own website and correct your own work. Geeze.
 
pelo said:
Read the entire post before you make ignorant comments. I said that AMD is winning anyway, despite this card not being priced according to what it offers against the competition, because its only competition at the moment is AMD itself. This isn't something that's meant literally, where the 6xxx fanboys within AMD HQ are throwing water balloons and insulting the 7xxx devs for making a shitty GPU, but rather that their video cards are competing against AMD video cards and either way the winner is AMD. nVidia is nowhere to be seen outside of maybe 1-2 GPUs. They could have priced these things at $300 and they'd still be doing well, because even if it didn't sell the other cards that are priced appropriately would. But that's missing the point...

That doesn't mean these stock 7770s shouldn't be in the current 6850 range with regards to price. They're a new gen and there's obvious advantages of 28nm vs 40nm, but above all is performance and considering the current pricing you're better off with a 6850/6870.

So are they priced wrong? That's definitely a yes.

Does AMD care when they're still selling their own cards? No, not really. Unless there's a vast difference in profit margins between these two generations, I don't think they give 2 shits until Kepler comes out. They had the lower/mid tier of the market already.
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Ignorant? I thought it was slightly informative, while pushing you to actually read the (much more informative) posts made before you. Your previous post read nothing like this one. It read like a butt hurt consumer (something we already have an abundance of on this forum) bitching/whining about high prices on a companies latest product... I've read it again just to make certain... and it still reads the same. ;)

Are they priced wrong? That's definitely a subjective question. If you are AMD the answer is definitely NO. Perhaps if you had posted the above quote instead of what I responded to... you wouldn't have gotten a response at all.
 
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nothing to be excited about at all. this would make a great laptop chip though. it's at a bad price point in an already crowded market segment. it loses to plenty of equally or lesser priced cards. the TDP difference is nice, but what does it matter to a 6850 that is already very good in that area and a faster card. this is the fastest model as well. the others don't look so good in any other reviews. is this an indication what a 5770 can do at 1000mhz?
 
What is with all the new members talking so much crap about AMD cards?

When you look at this card logically, it is a good/great card. This is a low end card which matches last years mid-high end offering. The price is about $20-30 too high right now, but pretty much has to be, so that all old stock can be cleared out. I am willing to bet that a price cut will happen next month, which will make this card an awesome buy. It is pathetic that all people see is the price.

Edit: I forgot to add that the fact that all the "haters" also disregard power draw/heat, put a 560 ti in a small form factor/HTPC case and see now well it holds up after an hour of gaming compared to the 7770.
 
darkstarcow said:
What is with all the new members talking so much crap about AMD cards?

When you look at this card logically, it is a good/great card. This is a low end card which matches last years mid-high end offering. The price is about $20-30 too high right now, but pretty much has to be, so that all old stock can be cleared out. I am willing to bet that a price cut will happen next month, which will make this card an awesome buy. It is pathetic that all people see is the price.

Edit: I forgot to add that the fact that all the "haters" also disregard power draw/heat, put a 560 ti in a small form factor/HTPC case and see now well it holds up after an hour of gaming compared to the 7770.
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logic and common sense disappeared from this forum a long long time ago, its quite sad honestly. and yeah i completely agree with you, no one bothers to look at what market cards like the 7770 are geared toward, which isn't the enthusiast market, its the OEM/low end casual gamer market where power usage and heat output are far more important.

PureBlackFire said:
nothing to be excited about at all. this would make a great laptop chip though. it's at a bad price point in an already crowded market segment. it loses to plenty of equally or lesser priced cards. the TDP difference is nice, but what does it matter to a 6850 that is already very good in that area and a faster card. this is the fastest model as well. the others don't look so good in any other reviews. is this an indication what a 5770 can do at 1000mhz?
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no, because the 5770 uses VLIW5 architecture vs the 7770 which uses VLIW4 architecture(same architecture used with the 6800 and 6900 series) which is a far more efficient architecture.
 
darkstarcow said:
When you look at this card logically, it is a good/great card. This is a low end card which matches last years mid-high end offering. The price is about $20-30 too high right now, but pretty much has to be, so that all old stock can be cleared out. I am willing to bet that a price cut will happen next month, which will make this card an awesome buy
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I think that post summarized the situation pretty well.
 
Has anyone complaining about prices of the 7000 series parts think that the per-wafer costs could be much higher than 40nm?
 
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