Windows 10 Buggy Updates? Our Patching Is Simple, Regular, Consistent Says Microsoft

trparky

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They've been pushing the release schedule too hard. twice a year is too much.
I fully agree with that. They need to slow down to maybe one new release every year. Google only releases a new version of Android once a year and Apple as well with both iOS and MacOS. One release is good enough especially with how badly each new release is the first month it's available.
 

heatlesssun

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But like cutting out cancer early or keeping knives out of the hands on children, the only and best thing for S mode and the Windows 10 store overall is for it to continue to be ignored by users and never gain traction. It really is trying to be a store for all the wrong reasons, with six layers of DRM even on freeware - everything is obfuscated and kept under MSs lock and key. It's truly cancer.

There was a right way for MS to build a store and that would've been to make it as a central repository for Windows program distribution, similar to the popular Linux distros, and then slowly over time creep in the monetized app crap. But it should've been done decades ago, the ship has sailed.
So the Netflix app is cancer? While sure there are legitimate criticisms of Windows 10, the Store complaints are often way conspiratorial and just out there to mean much practical folks. It's just another source of software like Steam, Origin, GoG or even site downloads.
 

heatlesssun

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Why are you against people having the knowledge of the updates at hand? I can't for the life of me think of a single logical reason that the information should be hidden. If someone doesn't want to read it they don't have to. It's that simple.
I never said I was against it. Seriously though, how often do average people read anything regarding software updates? They press a button and expect it to just work.
 

heatlesssun

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I have to admit, if he's just a fanatic he would have to be the most devoted and closed off fanatic I've ever seen in my life.
I'm simply a practical person when it comes to PCs. I know what I need and want from them and I use what's best for those purposes. I assume that most people in a place like this do the same. There's no point spending lots of time and money on something if it doesn't do the job.
 

heatlesssun

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I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft has one or a few at every major tech forum.
Find ONE instance where I every told anyone they should use Windows 10. But yeah I'll say obvious things, like gaming on Linux is pointless compared to Windows unless you're just a Linux fan that wants to game on Linux.
 

Dr. Righteous

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I saved a ton of headaches by switching to Linux.
Just saying.
Did that several years back too. I can't imaging going back to windows for my everyday work. I switch my Wife to a linux workstation when she stared a new job. Now when she has to use windows on the company provided laptop; she hates it. ;)
 

Delicieuxz

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Find ONE instance where I every told anyone they should use Windows 10. But yeah I'll say obvious things, like gaming on Linux is pointless compared to Windows unless you're just a Linux fan that wants to game on Linux.
What you do is falsely frame everything into 'Windows 10 is ideal and what people want', regardless of the topic, regardless of what you're hearing from people posting their experiences, regardless of people saying what they want. Everything you say is crafted to funnel things back to 'Windows 10 is the best'. It's so artificial, opinion-based, and besides the points of many of the discussions that it seems very transparent what's actually going on.


Also, you've stated before that you feel there hasn't been proof shown that Microsoft is selling its customers' data for profit like Facebook, Google, Twitter, Amazon, and other tech companies are. Besides that it's obvious in so much of Microsoft's abusive software designs and tactics, and besides that it's obvious from Microsoft's sky-rocketing revenue since Windows 10, and besides that it's obvious from Microsoft's lobbying against California's new law mandating people be able to choose to deny companies from selling their data, and besides that it's obvious from the fact that Microsoft is partnered with all those data-selling companies in the sector of personal data harvesting and sharing, Microsoft also state for themselves in their "privacy statement" and other documents that they sell the personal data they harvest from people:


Microsoft's documentation outlining that MS sells customer data collected through MS products and services

_MicrosoftsharesbusinessreportswithOEMsand3rd-partypartners.PNG.c11caceffa8a827fd38f606f396b0f5f.png


5b602945600de_Microsoftpartnerswith3rd-partyadcompanies.PNG.42b40f925dccaad95e4d41a255690cf5.png


5b602944918e8_Microsoftdisclosesdatainsaleofassets.PNG.f9d362b84b5d6c2a5cddc0f81b6e8ea1.png


So, Microsoft will disclose harvested personal data (assets) when Microsoft sells it.
 
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tetris42

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Find ONE instance where I every told anyone they should use Windows 10.
Not always, but usually when somebody is accused of something, an innocent person denies it, whereas a guilty person asks someone to prove it. If all you did was say "buy Windows 10", that would be too easy to identify. Marketing outgrew that years ago.

heartlessun said:
But yeah I'll say obvious things, like gaming on Linux is pointless compared to Windows unless you're just a Linux fan that wants to game on Linux.
Pointing out obvious things doesn't make people suspect you of being a shill. It's the other things you do.

ManofGod's technique is generally to mock and deride anyone who criticizes a Microsoft product. I suspect he would lose his contract if he were to ever criticize a Microsoft product himself for anything. It's pretty basic and occasionally borders on trolling. He would be the "bad cop" shill.

Your style is more advanced and acts as the "good cop" shill; perpetually emphasize the positive about the product, when cornered with completely indefensible positions of MS, you tend to move attention elsewhere and redirect the conversation and use vague qualifiers along the way. Your style is akin to what some of the shrewder politicians out there use. For example, you've done this just now when someone is asking why you are against people having information on updates. You respond by saying you never said you were AGAINST IT (but don't outright say you're NOT either), then question why should people have this knowledge to begin with?

A sane person would ALWAYS be in favor of a company providing more information for the user if that's what they were requesting. The only person who WOULDN'T be for something like that is someone who needs to tow the company line. Since you can't come out and say that, you have to throw up obvious questions that shouldn't even need answering to hijack the train of thought. Why WOULD someone need to lock their doors when burglary rates are low? Why WOULD a building need smoke detectors when everyone can simply smell smoke? Why would someone need to read the ingredients of food when it's obviously been tested by the FDA and deemed safe for general consumption. It's kind of insulting, but it runs counter to what normal people expect in a conversation that it throws most people off guard. I admit, I had to analyze what you were doing to see the pattern.

You also tend to like to serve up false choices again and again. I think I have to lean towards Delicieuxz's assessment, you're acting like someone who is paid by Microsoft. If you're not, then you're doing everything a highly effective one would just by coincidence, you should see if you can get a contract with them. You wouldn't have to change anything, you could keep doing what you've been doing for free, just get paid for doing it.

I'm simply a practical person when it comes to PCs. I know what I need and want from them and I use what's best for those purposes. I assume that most people in a place like this do the same. There's no point spending lots of time and money on something if it doesn't do the job.
For god's sake, this sounds like an infomercial. I can almost hear the light guitar music in the background and see images of models smiling while they look at Windows.
 

heatlesssun

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What you do is falsely frame everything into 'Windows 10 is ideal and what people want', regardless of the topic, regardless of what you're hearing from people posting their experiences, regardless of people saying what they want. Everything you say is crafted to funnel things back to 'Windows 10 is the best'. It's so artificial, not opinion-based, and besides the points of many of the discussions that it seems very transparent what's actually going on.
Nope. Windows has by far the best desktop ecosystem. If you want support for the latest and greatest in PC hardware and software Windows 10 is basically the only option. If one has other needs or wants and doesn't need that ecosystem, isn't concerned too much with PC gaming or commercial productivity apps, then there are other options that might be better for those people and organizations.

I've said this countless times, it's just obvious reality.

Also, you've stated before that you feel there hasn't been proof shown that Microsoft is selling its customers' data for profit like Facebook, Google, Twitter, Amazon, and other tech companies are.


This isn't a matter of feelings. Either there is proof or not because as the #2 cloud company, if Microsoft is indeed doing the thing they say they aren't doing with personal information they are hosed beyond belief. It's hard to see how they'd be trusted in the cloud business if they were just selling personal information to whomever.

 

heatlesssun

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Your style is more advanced and acts as the "good cop" shill; perpetually emphasize the positive about the product,
That's not it at all. What I constantly ask is GIVE ME AND OTHERS AN ALTERNATIVE. I say "I use VR, what the options?" The answer from this kind of crowd is often "No one uses VR."

From my perspective there are folks here who are genuinely interested in a better option than Windows and what that get back is bunch of grandstanding impractical moralism when all someone wanted was a simple and direct answer.

So no answers to direct technical questions but a whole lot personal attacks and nonsense.
 

CombatChrisNC

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TL;DR thread.

We have ~1100 PCs right now in the fleet. We tried upgrading via WSUS about 5 of them from 1511 to 1803. They all worked. So we expanded the batch size to the office that IT works in, and had a 15-20% failure rate. I mean, BSOD, boot loops, recovery screens, etc. Only some of them have been able to be recovered, the rest had to be reimaged. At that rate, we decided not to upgrade, but instead reimage machines as they came in for repairs to 1803, deploy only 1803 PCs for new requests, and potentially going onsite across the states we operate in to reimage those as well with a portable 'server'. Basically, doing the same job we did when we went from Windows 7 to Windows 10 1511 in the 1st place years ago!
 

mufcfan

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The Mac updating process isn't much better than the process under Windows.



And it was highlighted by many that the processes outlined are outdated and do not work reliably for extended periods of time.



Security data at the most basic setting available under Professional or Home still includes Microsoft's 'Connected User Experience.' AKA: Spyware.

You can try blocking at hardware firewall level, but a thorough analysis with Wireshark will highlight this process isn't as simple as it seems.
The regkey change works. Monitoring it and resetting it via a script in the background works.
No outdated information, works for extended periods of time. This key has been in use since XP at least, so it is pretty reliable to say the least.

The manual network configuration is doable nevertheless. If that is what you want, then this is how to do it.
The "spyware" is also removable from the installer before install.

So, there are options for an IT pro.
This has always been the same with every feature which was labeled shitty by some that was released with any Windows version. Only the worthy/popular ones got a 3rd party app for carrying them out.
 
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mufcfan

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TL;DR thread.

We have ~1100 PCs right now in the fleet. We tried upgrading via WSUS about 5 of them from 1511 to 1803. They all worked. So we expanded the batch size to the office that IT works in, and had a 15-20% failure rate. I mean, BSOD, boot loops, recovery screens, etc. Only some of them have been able to be recovered, the rest had to be reimaged. At that rate, we decided not to upgrade, but instead reimage machines as they came in for repairs to 1803, deploy only 1803 PCs for new requests, and potentially going onsite across the states we operate in to reimage those as well with a portable 'server'. Basically, doing the same job we did when we went from Windows 7 to Windows 10 1511 in the 1st place years ago!
Where I work, corp has a lot of custom software around the world. Therefore IT pilots the new releases themselves, then non-IT people can sign up to pilot the 'release candidate'. The pilot usually ends in time, so that each PC can jump two versions, because the policy is to use the latest or the second latest version, as required/recommended by MS.
There were 2 updates forced by IT because of this and, at our plant at least, no PCs needed to be reimaged. This is across at least 5 generations of laptop hardware, mainly HP and some Dell and HP desktops.
All new PCs got Win10 for at least a year now, so we are talking about hundreds of them only at our site.
 

triwolf

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What you do is falsely frame everything into 'Windows 10 is ideal and what people want', regardless of the topic, regardless of what you're hearing from people posting their experiences, regardless of people saying what they want. Everything you say is crafted to funnel things back to 'Windows 10 is the best'. It's so artificial, opinion-based, and besides the points of many of the discussions that it seems very transparent what's actually going on.


Also, you've stated before that you feel there hasn't been proof shown that Microsoft is selling its customers' data for profit like Facebook, Google, Twitter, Amazon, and other tech companies are. Besides that it's obvious in so much of Microsoft's abusive software designs and tactics, and besides that it's obvious from Microsoft's sky-rocketing revenue since Windows 10, and besides that it's obvious from Microsoft's lobbying against California's new law mandating people be able to choose to deny companies from selling their data, and besides that it's obvious from the fact that Microsoft is partnered with all those data-selling companies in the sector of personal data harvesting and sharing, Microsoft also state for themselves in their "privacy statement" and other documents that they sell the personal data they harvest from people:


Microsoft's documentation outlining that MS sells customer data collected through MS products and services

View attachment 94590

View attachment 94591

View attachment 94584

So, Microsoft will disclose harvested personal data (assets) when Microsoft sells it.
Darn heatlessun, looks like your ruse where you lie and pull answers out of your backside has been exposed. I hope people don't listen to your drivel. You obviously have no morals the way you play fast and loose with reality. I feel for anyone that listens to your propaganda.
 

triwolf

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Nope. Windows has by far the best desktop ecosystem. If you want support for the latest and greatest in PC hardware and software Windows 10 is basically the only option. If one has other needs or wants and doesn't need that ecosystem, isn't concerned too much with PC gaming or commercial productivity apps, then there are other options that might be better for those people and organizations.

I've said this countless times, it's just obvious reality.



This isn't a matter of feelings. Either there is proof or not because as the #2 cloud company, if Microsoft is indeed doing the thing they say they aren't doing with personal information they are hosed beyond belief. It's hard to see how they'd be trusted in the cloud business if they were just selling personal information to whomever.

Anyone whom thinks that your cloud storage is ever actually secure from prying eyes deserves what they get. Please explain how you are the authority on what MS does with their could data? You are a complete uber troll.
 

heatlesssun

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Anyone whom thinks that your cloud storage is ever actually secure from prying eyes deserves what they get. Please explain how you are the authority on what MS does with their could data? You are a complete uber troll.
So people who make claims about Microsoft selling personal data without proof are an authority? If someone could prove that Microsoft is selling personal data that they explicitly say they are not selling they wouldn't be the #2 cloud company. Not sure why the arguing over common sense.
 
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triwolf

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So people who makes claims about Microsoft selling personal data without proof are an authority? If someone could prove that Microsoft is selling personal data that they explicitly say they are not selling they wouldn't be the #2 cloud company. Not sure why the arguing over common sense.
It's called common sense to know that if MS is asked by the Government to get in your PC or cloud storage they can and will.

Also see the response where Delicieuxz owned you where it states specifically in the user agreement that you must agree to when you install Win 10 that they DO use the data. I guess you live in your own wittle world or something. The rest of us know about how most everyone on the planet is a bold faced liar, and even when MS says in interviews or every time when asked they aren't using user data for anything they can make a buck on, if it is in the user agreement, THEY WILL.
 

heatlesssun

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It's called common sense to know that if MS is asked by the Government to get in your PC or cloud storage they can and will.
That's not common sense, that's well documented and it's clearly stated in the ToS from Microsoft, Amazon, Google and everyone. Again, is Microsoft taking personal information AND SELLING IT? That's not documented, Microsoft explicitly says they are not doing that.

Also see the response where Delicieuxz owned you where it states specifically in the user agreement that you must agree to when you install Win 10 that they DO use the data.
LOL! Of course they use the data, why the hell collect it if they didn't? Again, some are saying they sell personally identifiable information. So all I asked for was proof.
 

triwolf

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That's not common sense, that's well documented and it's clearly stated in the ToS from Microsoft, Amazon, Google and everyone. Again, is Microsoft taking personal information AND SELLING IT? That's not documented, Microsoft explicitly says they are not doing that.



LOL! Of course they use the data, why the hell collect it if they didn't? Again, some are saying they sell personally identifiable information. So all I asked for was proof.
What do you not understand about the Terms of Service? If you believe what MS tells you there are plenty of jokes about your naivete. There is no hope for you. You'll get what you deserve. I just hope your insanity doesn't spread, unfortunately looking at the average IQ of the younger folks, we are in serious trouble.
 

heatlesssun

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What do you not understand about the Terms of Service? If you believe what MS tells you there are plenty of jokes about your naivete. There is no hope for you. You'll get what you deserve. I just hope your insanity doesn't spread, unfortunately looking at the average IQ of the younger folks, we are in serious trouble.
LOL! All of this nonsense when all I've been asking is for people to provide some proof.
 

triwolf

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LOL! All of this nonsense when all I've been asking is for people to provide some proof.
Proof is that MS is known liars, they hire the lowest of the low, and anyone who trusts them gets screwed in the end, see users, their testers and the coders that now have to do all the testing which they don't do which is what this thread is originally about.
 

heatlesssun

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Proof is that MS is known liars, they hire the lowest of the low, and anyone who trusts them gets screwed in the end, see users, their testers and the coders that now have to do all the testing which they don't do which is what this thread is originally about.
So a bunch of ad hominem attacks are what you call proof? The same stuff that some have been spewing for over 20 years. This is where it always goes off the rails and people who might have actually had a point become a bunch conspiracy theorists.
 

SmokeRngs

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So a bunch of ad hominem attacks are what you call proof? The same stuff that some have been spewing for over 20 years. This is where it always goes off the rails and people who might have actually had a point become a bunch conspiracy theorists.
Prove to us MS is only using the telemetry to improve the quality of their software and maybe some of us might take you seriously. You're the one saying MS is doing nothing but good from the spying, prove it.
 

heatlesssun

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Prove to us MS is only using the telemetry to improve the quality of their software and maybe some of us might take you seriously.
The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. IRL how often do you accept claims without proof? If Microsoft is selling personal data out of Windows 10 it's how have they been doing so for three years without any proof? The parties supposedly buying the data, no one has come forward to say anything? Microsoft has been in the OS business for over three decades now. They could have been grabbing personal data and selling long before Windows 10. Of course had they been doing that and someone had proof that they were, they probably wouldn't be in the OS or any other business today.

This is how all conspiracy theories work. People make claims, have no proof then put the burden of proof on others to prove their unproven claims aren't true.
 

SmokeRngs

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The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. IRL how often do you accept claims without proof? If Microsoft is selling personal data out of Windows 10 it's how have they been doing so for three years without any proof? The parties supposedly buying the data, no one has come forward to say anything? Microsoft has been in the OS business for over three decades now. They could have been grabbing personal data and selling long before Windows 10. Of course had they been doing that and someone had proof that they were, they probably wouldn't be in the OS or any other business today.

This is how all conspiracy theories work. People make claims, have no proof then put the burden of proof on others to prove their unproven claims aren't true.
You're the one claiming all of MS's spying is benevolent and only for the benefit of people to make MS's software better. The burden of proof is on you to do so.
 

trparky

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Delicieuxz , if the data is truly aggregated and anonymized data there shouldn't be a problem. Where it would be a problem is if that data contained actual people's names, locations, etc. of which aggregated and anonymized data would not contain.

As for the NetFlix app on Windows 10, I love it myself. In fact I'm going to be using it coming soon in which I'm going to have downloaded TV shows to watch while I'm on a plane. Can't do that without the NetFlix app. Well... you could but only through illegal means.
 

heatlesssun

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You're the one claiming all of MS's spying is benevolent and only for the benefit of people to make MS's software better. The burden of proof is on you to do so.
Is Microsoft selling personal data out of Windows 10? You have proof of that or no?
 

triwolf

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So a bunch of ad hominem attacks are what you call proof? The same stuff that some have been spewing for over 20 years. This is where it always goes off the rails and people who might have actually had a point become a bunch conspiracy theorists.
It's not ad hominem when the thread itself is about how low MS has stooped, and if you actually read the article, there is plenty of proof that Sys Admins and users are dissatisfied with MS, as if they care. We are all locked into their proprietary crap anyway, and have to listen to shills like you all over the net saying how rosy everything is.
 
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SmokeRngs

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Is Microsoft selling personal data out of Windows 10? You have proof of that or no?
Since you were incapable of understanding a simple statement the first time I posted it, I will say it again. Prove your claim that MS is doing nothing with the spying data but improving MS software.

Either prove your claim or retract it. It's as simple as that.
 

trparky

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there is plenty of proof that Sys Admins and users are dissatisfied with MS
To which I say that you best believe that I know this. Hell, I've been plenty pissed off with Microsoft as of late but not enough for me to go to a completely different platform. That would be like tossing the baby out with the bath water.
 

heatlesssun

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Since you were incapable of understanding a simple statement the first time I posted it, I will say it again. Prove your claim that MS is doing nothing with the spying data but improving MS software.

Either prove your claim or retract it. It's as simple as that.
I'm not claiming anything. It's you and others that are saying that Microsoft is lying in their ToS and doing something at best highly unethical in selling personally identifiable data. If you want Microsoft to pay some penalty for what you are claiming you must provide PROOF. Otherwise it's just a conspiracy theory.
 

trparky

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I'm not claiming anything. It's you and others that are saying that Microsoft is lying in their ToS and doing something at best highly unethical in selling personally identifiable data. If you want Microsoft to pay some penalty for what you are claiming you must provide PROOF. Otherwise it's just a conspiracy theory.
You've technically got a point there. If you were to take any of the stuff that's being talked about in this thread to a lawyer and said to that lawyer that Microsoft must be doing this stuff because well... just because, that lawyer would laugh you out of the room. After he/she got up off the floor after a bit of hyperventilating the lawyer would tell you to get concrete proof and then the lawsuit could be filed.
 

trparky

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Up until you get that concrete proof, that said lawyer would tell you that what you have is what is legally referred to as supposition and hearsay and would never be admissible in any court of law.
 

heatlesssun

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You've technically got a point there. If you were to take any of the stuff that's being talked about in this thread to a lawyer and said to that lawyer that Microsoft must be doing this stuff because well... just because, that lawyer would laugh you out of the room. After he/she got up off the floor after a bit of hyperventilating the lawyer would tell you to get concrete proof and then the lawsuit could be filed.
Obviously there's folks here that hate Microsoft, so what, it's always been like that. But if you're making claims that they doing something wrong and want them to pay a penalty beyond what a bunch of anonymous online spreading a conspiracy can inflict, if you want the law or the market place to make them pay for their "crimes", you're just going to need that little thing called proof. That's just who the real world works, especially with a rich and powerful company.
 

trparky

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you're just going to need that little thing called proof. That's just who the real world works, especially with a rich and powerful company.
Not just with a "rich and powerful company", I would say that you would need that kind of proof even when dealing with just about anyone. In some ways this thread is like the witch hunt that's happening with the #MeToo movement. Oh... I said that he did something therefore he must be guilty and that person automatically loses said job without even a proper hearing. Guilty before proven innocent.
 

Delicieuxz

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The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. IRL how often do you accept claims without proof? If Microsoft is selling personal data out of Windows 10 it's how have they been doing so for three years without any proof?
There is loads of evidence, and Microsoft have stated that they sell customer data. So, any denial is pointless. And since selling data is the (extremely profitable) business of mass-harvesting data, it is not sensible to think that Microsoft, which harvests more personal data than any other company, is not selling its data. We also know that Microsoft lies as routine, that Microsoft doesn't respect and instead wontonly abuses its customers, that Microsoft has had no qualms giving its customers' data to US intel agencies without permission of its customers.

Twitter has been selling customer data for years without "proof". So did Facebook. And there were people like you denying that they were selling their customers' data, too.

Selling customer data is a major part of Microsoft's current business model - and it's making Microsoft a ton of money.


Delicieuxz , if the data is truly aggregated and anonymized data there shouldn't be a problem. Where it would be a problem is if that data contained actual people's names, locations, etc. of which aggregated and anonymized data would not contain.
It's still a problem because MS has that data, just as it would be a problem that anyone Microsoft sold it to could have that data. And Microsoft doesn't state that the data it shared with 3rd parties is exclusively aggregated and anonymous. In some cases, such as sharing it with law enforcement (which Microsoft says they do), it would logically not be anonymous and aggregated.

Microsoft has only offered aggregated data as a suggestion of one of the scenarios in which MS shares / sells customer data. In using phrasing like that Microsoft is intending to throw people off and lead them to make assumptions that aren't true but which benefit Microsoft - a tactic that Microsoft regularly uses. That tactic is called conniving, and is a form of lying. Microsoft connives a lot.
 
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tetris42

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It's almost as if questions about whether MS is breaking the law or not wouldn't be an issue if there was an option to opt out of data collection and Microsoft provided full transparency of all data they were collecting. I can believe Microsoft is not doing anything nefarious TODAY. In 10 years under new management? I have no idea, good thing everything is opaque so I'll never know unless they get incredibly sloppy. What a wonderful new standard for consumer rights we're creating on the desktop.
 

Mazzspeed

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I'm simply a practical person when it comes to PCs. I know what I need and want from them and I use what's best for those purposes. I assume that most people in a place like this do the same. There's no point spending lots of time and money on something if it doesn't do the job.
Don't assume anything. I'm also a practical person and I do just fine without Windows 10, I don't miss it in the slightest.

Your needs do not in any way reflect the needs of everyone. How about you prove that Windows 10 is not spying? Your argument is a cop out. An encrypted file stored on your PC in a folder invisible to the OS with permissions set so you cannot access it ready to be sent to MS certainly sounds like there's something there MS don't want the user seeing.
 
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