Windows 10 Buggy Updates? Our Patching Is Simple, Regular, Consistent Says Microsoft

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Aug 4, 2018.

  1. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    If a file is created under a Libre Office and opens fine under WPS Office but does not open fine under Microsoft Office, which I can assure you does happen, than Microsoft Office is the package with the compatibility issue.

    The number of pages is irrelevant to the consumer, but standards should be bible to software developers. Problem is Microsoft believe they're above standards and that's no accident. Docx and xslx are both standards, compatibility issues should not exist between office suites at all.
     
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  2. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Same document I used before in WPS:

    upload_2018-8-9_21-46-43.png

    Gee. And wow, WPS has touch scrolling. Dude, this is just crazy. It's 6,000 pages of all kinds of crazy shit and your own validation failed to prove anything. Other than Libre Office fucked something up that you just said should have still been fucked up in WPS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  3. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Windows tablets are PCs. Most will run desktop Linux distros with the only issue normally being driver support for things like touch, pen, accelerometer, etc. things not on conventional laptops.
     
  4. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yes, but are you going to write a huge paper on a phone or tablet? i know I would not. If you connect a keyboard to them, yeah, but then it's not really a touch, but a laptop with a detachable keyboard.(Would not be fun on the phone either way though)
     
  5. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    You're still not getting it. You cannot use ink as an example, ink is not part of the docx standard, ink is it's own standard and it's documented that Libre Office is not 100% compatible with ink. 6000 pages means nothing, it's irrelevant to the consumer! The consumer does not care about anything contained within those 6000 pages and they do not need to.

    However, where docx issues exist. you usually find a document authored on an alternate platform opens fine on the alternate platforms but not in Office, as Microsoft's implementation of docx has compatibility issues between even differing versions of Microsoft Office itself. Be aware that I am not talking about ink, not at all.

    Surface devices have to be some of the most poorly constructed and un repairable devices I have ever seen, I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot barge pole.
     
  6. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Tablet is just a form factor like a desktop of a laptop. Sure, if you're trying to bang out text most would want to use a keyboard. But what if you're working with math? Wouldn't the tablet form with a pen work better?
     
  7. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    But I can do that on my Android phone or tablet.
     
  8. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    And your chances of getting malware or a virus are virtually nil. My Tab S3 9.7" is one of my most used computing devices. ;)
     
  9. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    So exactly as I have been saying it's not a standards problem but a functionality problem like touch scrolling that Libre doesn't support.
     
  10. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Why have two devices and two different platforms when one will do? I get that some folks around here don't care for 2 in 1s but everyone is in that market these days one way or another. Samsung just released the Tab S4 which is a direct competitor to the Surface Go and in looking at the reviews of the S4, the Go cleaned it's clock as a 2 in 1 productivity device. And many are saying that this is it for Android tablets as a standalone thing, with ChromeOS tablets and 2 in 1s being the next thing from Google.

    Whatever all of the debate I have with folks over Windows 10, what I do like about Windows, particularly 10 is it's ability to do so much across a wide array of hardware. People talk about Windows bloat and such, this Go is running on hardware that's actually not even as fast as many mobile devices in a lot of ways. But it runs Microsoft Office, Libre Office, WPS Office, Visual Studio, capable of running thousands of Steam games, can be used to bang out that big typed document, used as note taking or drawing tool across dozens of applications, etc.

    When something has this kind of flexibility and functionality, some people are going to like it.
     
  11. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ink is a standard that Libre Office is known not to support in it's entirety. Ink is a separate standard to ooxml which covers the file formats docx and xlsx, this is the standard I am talking about. Your example regarding ink does not relate to docx compatibility.

    As I stated, even differing versions of Microsoft Office itself have massive issues with Microsoft's idea of docx compatibility due to Microsoft's idea of what constitutes a standard. What Microsoft claim and what Microsoft put into practice are two separate things entirely.

    Now I will admit that Microsoft are trying harder than they have in the past to conform to standards in relation to their office suite, however there is no denying that any compatibility issues lingering today are related solely to Microsoft and no one else. It must be stated however that the problem is no where near as massive as you are trying to claim it is and inter compatibility between suites has improved massively in the last few years alone. It's unlikely to be of any real issue considering the needs of most of the population.

    http://techrights.org/2017/03/13/remarkable-admission-ooxml/
     
  12. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    They also run a huge library of malicious software, viruses, trojans and any other nasty software you care to imagine - In fact the main reason for people switching to tablets is their simplicity and reliability. Considering the issues surrounding Windows and any infection you care to think about, as well as the fact that Windows is now a touch interface as well as a desktop interface complete with all the issues that actually make a desktop operating system such as Windows undesirable for most when switching to a tablet 'and' considering the fact that Android also runs Libre Office, WPS Office, Microsoft Office and a massive library of games on the Play Store optimized for mobile application you soon realize that, once again, Microsoft are pushing a product in a market that's happy with what's available already.
     
  13. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Like I didn't already know that. This is a functional difference issue and has NOTHING to do with standards.
     
  14. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Thus things like the Store and S Mode that some folks love to turn into conspiracy theories.
     
  15. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    If you're going to use the ill populated Windows Store or S mode you may as well use the many far more suitable tried and proven mobile alternatives running Android or iOS and forget about downloading games via Steam on your Surface.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  16. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    Another interesting point is that recent research conducted via the NIST has clearly demonstrated that the use of non interoperable formats like OOXML accounts for the loss of half a billion dollars per year in one industry sector: real estate. If you multiply the amount for all industry sectors, I suppose that the amount would be in the order of many billion dollars wasted thanks to proprietary non interoperable formats (the fact that a document format is standardized has no meaning if the standard is not versioned, consistent, documented and respected).
     
  17. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    2 devices? I dont think I can use my tablet as a phone?
     
  18. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't think your love crusade for Surface and other 2-in-1 devices reflects the actual use numbers or actual usage patterns.

    People prefer their smartphones or more practical tablets for consumption. Actual need for current format 2in1 devices is slim.

    They have more important things to improve than features for a niche of a niche of a niche users.

    Again, the fact that you always resort to 2in1s to justify Win10's general suckness is telling.
     
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  19. socK

    socK 2[H]4U

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    My favorite feature of Server 2016 is how the updates take like 4x as long as our 2012 servers.

    It is infuriating. I cannot fathom what the fuck it's possibly doing to take so long.
     
  20. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes, and GamesForWindowsLive was not a conspiracy to lock people into MS only eco-system. It didn't take away save game access when they took it down either. I have more trust with EA/Origin than I do MS on the digital store front.

    They added in "fast boot" in win8/10, they must now take away fast updates.
     
  21. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    All I'm saying is that there must be a decent market for them otherwise I doubt OEMs would have as many models as they do.

    A few years ago I would be more inclined to agree. If you don't use touch devices you wouldn't see it but a good number of desktop applications these days have some level of touch support and it's fairly common in productivity apps, even the WPS suite supports touch.

    Not sure why everyone has to have the same opinion on everything. I use a lot of different Windows 10 devices, they've been working very well overall. As much as you might not like Windows 10, there's nothing else that'll support all of these devices for what they were designed to do.
     
  22. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    But that's not how the Store works. Many of the apps have multiple distribution methods. It's interesting to see on one hand people blast Windows for malware issues then on the other blast Windows for having a curated store to help deal with the issue.
     
  23. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    The answer to cancer is not more cancer. And the windows 10 Store is not anti-malware, despite your false narrative. One's got nothing to do with the other.

    Curated? Have you actually looked inside of that cesspool? Third worlder knockoff apps as far as the eye can see - still - going on 6 years now. "But wut about Netflix" - always resorting to the same exception proves the rule.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  24. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    I'm far more familiar with the Store than most here. Sure there's a lot of junk, but then there's things Xodo. I get that it's a thing for Windows 10 haters to blast every damned thing about but the Store is just another source of software, outside of games I'm guessing about 40% of my software is coming through there now? Maybe not that much but I mean hell there is a CBS app, I signed up for it to watch Star Trek so I'm using that to watch Star Trek.
     
  25. trparky

    trparky Gawd

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    For those people who think that Microsoft doesn't have to evolve Windows into being more than just a traditional desktop, watch Linus in this video specifically at the 6 minute mark where he talks about Samsung DeX. It may not be completely polished yet but you best believe that in the near future... this is what desktop computing is going to be!!! Windows, if it doesn't evolve, will becoming nothing more than a distant memory. Android is destined to replace everything.

     
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  26. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Definitely agreed. However this one, Google is positioning ChromeOS to be its tablet OS though, which should ultimately is a combo of Chrome browser, Android apps and desktop Linux apps. In looking at reviews of the Tab S4, seems to have kind of missed the mark with a lot of reviewers as 2 in 1 productivity tablet. Awkward launch with the Note 9 that was the thing everyone wanted to see and then getting compared to the Surface Go which seems to be getting overall positive reviews.

    Something like the Surface Go, is there really any doubt that PCs are headed in this direction by now? Something that's light and can go every, does all the productive tasks you need, can be hooked to external peripherals for greater stationary productivity and offers entertainment value. If Windows does die off, it's not going to be from a pure desktop OS, it'll be from something like ChromeOS that's essentially doing EXACTLY what Windows 10 is doing just with a different tech stack. A solid Store for Windows is way more important to its success long term than update issues.
     
  27. trparky

    trparky Gawd

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    Nope, absolutely not. This is the future of the desktop and anyone who tries to deny it is quite simply ignorant of the trends in the marketplace. If you don't see this then you need to open your eyes and look five to ten years down the road. As for us diehard desktop users? Sorry, we will be a dying breed.
     
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  28. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    It's not a zero sum game. Mainstream PCs have been going every more mobile since laptops become affordable. But there will always be folks who need "more power!". But yeah, something like a Surface Go, sub two pounds, that accommodates whatever input for whatever task and that can be docked on a desktop, that'll be the mainstream productivity PC
     
  29. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    What are your thoughts on the new Surface Go? :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  30. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    They key being many but not all. Reading the various trials and tribulations of gears of war4 and sea of thieves players for win10 only has not impressed me.
     
  31. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    I have GoW 4 and never had any problems with it, hell even supports SLI well. A store is just what you have to have these days for a consumer OS. Microsoft should have developed one many years ago.
     
  32. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Isn't that what Steam is for?
     
  33. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    So Steam is supposed to distribute Windows apps like Netflix, Xodo, Hulu etc? And Microsoft has to give Steam 30% for all of its games?

    The store hate at this point I think is irrational. I get that a lot you think there's only junk there but there's obviously a lot more there than many of you realize. If you don't use it then that's to be expected.
     
  34. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I used to think that, but seeing as how they were late to the party with GFWL and how that turned out, I think they inadvertently did us a favor by dropping PC gaming for 15 years and letting steam pick it up.
     
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  35. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I only use Steam or Oculus stores.

    MS games?
     
  36. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Ok, there's no Netflix app on Steam. No reason not to use the app that provides the best Netflix on Windows as I'm paying them whatever a month for 4k.
     
  37. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    And yet I have Quantum Break on Steam that was originally win10/xboxone only. No GoW yet though. If its popular enough or a console seller, they'll keep that monopoly only access.
     
  38. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Since Steam isn't free for the publisher "monopoly only access" isn't the full truth.
     
  39. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    If Microsoft created a console called the 2600 and released a game called ET he'd be doing all he can to tell anyone that cares to listen how good it is. The reality is, we all know how good ET turned out to be. ;)
     
  40. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    It's an enthusiasts forum and this is my latest toy. We were getting into that Libre Office debate and to test this thing and all the stuff we were talking about I loaded up Libre Office 6.1 and like damn, it works well. A damned 10” 18 ounce Windows 10 tablet running full desktop versions of Microsoft Office, Libre Office and WPS Office side by side by side with decent performance.

    I get that some to love to hate Windows and Microsoft but there those that think that kind of stuff is just fucking cool.