Windows 10 Buggy Updates? Our Patching Is Simple, Regular, Consistent Says Microsoft

There's no way in hell you know if any single incompatibility is caused by Microsoft not following a standard.

If a file is created under a Libre Office and opens fine under WPS Office but does not open fine under Microsoft Office, which I can assure you does happen, than Microsoft Office is the package with the compatibility issue.

The number of pages is irrelevant to the consumer, but standards should be bible to software developers. Problem is Microsoft believe they're above standards and that's no accident. Docx and xslx are both standards, compatibility issues should not exist between office suites at all.
 
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If a file is created under a Libre Office and opens fine under WPS Office but does not open fine under Microsoft Office, which I can assure you does happen, than Microsoft Office is the package with the compatibility issue.

The number of pages is irrelevant to the consumer, but standards should be bible to software developers. Problem is Microsoft believe they're above standards and that's no accident. Docx and xslx are both standards, compatibility issues should not exist between office suites at all.

Same document I used before in WPS:

upload_2018-8-9_21-46-43.png


Gee. And wow, WPS has touch scrolling. Dude, this is just crazy. It's 6,000 pages of all kinds of crazy shit and your own validation failed to prove anything. Other than Libre Office fucked something up that you just said should have still been fucked up in WPS.
 
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I would not try to do much on a tablet or phone besides texting or answering in a forum.
Reading, no problem.

Windows tablets are PCs. Most will run desktop Linux distros with the only issue normally being driver support for things like touch, pen, accelerometer, etc. things not on conventional laptops.
 
Windows tablets are PCs. Most will run desktop Linux distros with the only issue normally being driver support for things like touch, pen, accelerometer, etc. things not on conventional laptops.
Yes, but are you going to write a huge paper on a phone or tablet? i know I would not. If you connect a keyboard to them, yeah, but then it's not really a touch, but a laptop with a detachable keyboard.(Would not be fun on the phone either way though)
 
Same document I used before in WPS:

View attachment 95181

Gee. And wow, WPS has touch scrolling. Dude, this is just crazy. It's 6,000 pages of all kinds of crazy shit and your own validation failed to prove anything. Other than Libre Office fucked something up that you just said should have still been fucked up in WPS.

You're still not getting it. You cannot use ink as an example, ink is not part of the docx standard, ink is it's own standard and it's documented that Libre Office is not 100% compatible with ink. 6000 pages means nothing, it's irrelevant to the consumer! The consumer does not care about anything contained within those 6000 pages and they do not need to.

However, where docx issues exist. you usually find a document authored on an alternate platform opens fine on the alternate platforms but not in Office, as Microsoft's implementation of docx has compatibility issues between even differing versions of Microsoft Office itself. Be aware that I am not talking about ink, not at all.

Surface devices have to be some of the most poorly constructed and un repairable devices I have ever seen, I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot barge pole.
 
Yes, but are you going to write a huge paper on a phone or tablet? i know I would not. If you connect a keyboard to them, yeah, but then it's not really a touch, but a laptop with a detachable keyboard.(Would not be fun on the phone either way though)

Tablet is just a form factor like a desktop of a laptop. Sure, if you're trying to bang out text most would want to use a keyboard. But what if you're working with math? Wouldn't the tablet form with a pen work better?
 
Tablet is just a form factor like a desktop of a laptop. Sure, if you're trying to bang out text most would want to use a keyboard. But what if you're working with math? Wouldn't the tablet form with a pen work better?
But I can do that on my Android phone or tablet.
 
You're still not getting it. You cannot use ink as an example, ink is not part of the docx standard, ink is it's own standard and it's documented that Libre Office is not 100% compatible with ink.

So exactly as I have been saying it's not a standards problem but a functionality problem like touch scrolling that Libre doesn't support.
 
But I can do that on my Android phone or tablet.

Why have two devices and two different platforms when one will do? I get that some folks around here don't care for 2 in 1s but everyone is in that market these days one way or another. Samsung just released the Tab S4 which is a direct competitor to the Surface Go and in looking at the reviews of the S4, the Go cleaned it's clock as a 2 in 1 productivity device. And many are saying that this is it for Android tablets as a standalone thing, with ChromeOS tablets and 2 in 1s being the next thing from Google.

Whatever all of the debate I have with folks over Windows 10, what I do like about Windows, particularly 10 is it's ability to do so much across a wide array of hardware. People talk about Windows bloat and such, this Go is running on hardware that's actually not even as fast as many mobile devices in a lot of ways. But it runs Microsoft Office, Libre Office, WPS Office, Visual Studio, capable of running thousands of Steam games, can be used to bang out that big typed document, used as note taking or drawing tool across dozens of applications, etc.

When something has this kind of flexibility and functionality, some people are going to like it.
 
So exactly as I have been saying it's not a standards problem but a functionality problem like touch scrolling that Libre doesn't support.

Ink is a standard that Libre Office is known not to support in it's entirety. Ink is a separate standard to ooxml which covers the file formats docx and xlsx, this is the standard I am talking about. Your example regarding ink does not relate to docx compatibility.

As I stated, even differing versions of Microsoft Office itself have massive issues with Microsoft's idea of docx compatibility due to Microsoft's idea of what constitutes a standard. What Microsoft claim and what Microsoft put into practice are two separate things entirely.

Now I will admit that Microsoft are trying harder than they have in the past to conform to standards in relation to their office suite, however there is no denying that any compatibility issues lingering today are related solely to Microsoft and no one else. It must be stated however that the problem is no where near as massive as you are trying to claim it is and inter compatibility between suites has improved massively in the last few years alone. It's unlikely to be of any real issue considering the needs of most of the population.

http://techrights.org/2017/03/13/remarkable-admission-ooxml/
 
Whatever all of the debate I have with folks over Windows 10, what I do like about Windows, particularly 10 is it's ability to do so much across a wide array of hardware. People talk about Windows bloat and such, this Go is running on hardware that's actually not even as fast as many mobile devices in a lot of ways. But it runs Microsoft Office, Libre Office, WPS Office, Visual Studio, capable of running thousands of Steam games, can be used to bang out that big typed document, used as note taking or drawing tool across dozens of applications, etc.

They also run a huge library of malicious software, viruses, trojans and any other nasty software you care to imagine - In fact the main reason for people switching to tablets is their simplicity and reliability. Considering the issues surrounding Windows and any infection you care to think about, as well as the fact that Windows is now a touch interface as well as a desktop interface complete with all the issues that actually make a desktop operating system such as Windows undesirable for most when switching to a tablet 'and' considering the fact that Android also runs Libre Office, WPS Office, Microsoft Office and a massive library of games on the Play Store optimized for mobile application you soon realize that, once again, Microsoft are pushing a product in a market that's happy with what's available already.
 
They also run a huge library of malicious software, viruses, trojans and any other nasty software you care to imagine - In fact the main reason for people switching to tablets is their simplicity and reliability.

Thus things like the Store and S Mode that some folks love to turn into conspiracy theories.
 
Thus things like the Store and S Mode that some folks love to turn into conspiracy theories.

If you're going to use the ill populated Windows Store or S mode you may as well use the many far more suitable tried and proven mobile alternatives running Android or iOS and forget about downloading games via Steam on your Surface.
 
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Another interesting point is that recent research conducted via the NIST has clearly demonstrated that the use of non interoperable formats like OOXML accounts for the loss of half a billion dollars per year in one industry sector: real estate. If you multiply the amount for all industry sectors, I suppose that the amount would be in the order of many billion dollars wasted thanks to proprietary non interoperable formats (the fact that a document format is standardized has no meaning if the standard is not versioned, consistent, documented and respected).
 
Why have two devices and two different platforms when one will do? I get that some folks around here don't care for 2 in 1s but everyone is in that market these days one way or another. Samsung just released the Tab S4 which is a direct competitor to the Surface Go and in looking at the reviews of the S4, the Go cleaned it's clock as a 2 in 1 productivity device. And many are saying that this is it for Android tablets as a standalone thing, with ChromeOS tablets and 2 in 1s being the next thing from Google.

Whatever all of the debate I have with folks over Windows 10, what I do like about Windows, particularly 10 is it's ability to do so much across a wide array of hardware. People talk about Windows bloat and such, this Go is running on hardware that's actually not even as fast as many mobile devices in a lot of ways. But it runs Microsoft Office, Libre Office, WPS Office, Visual Studio, capable of running thousands of Steam games, can be used to bang out that big typed document, used as note taking or drawing tool across dozens of applications, etc.

When something has this kind of flexibility and functionality, some people are going to like it.
2 devices? I dont think I can use my tablet as a phone?
 
That's why they call them 2 in 1s. They can be extremely flexible. One minute you can be using a keyboard and mouse typing up a presentation, the next reading that presentation like off a clipboard or whatever.

The idea is obviously becoming a big deal. Touch and pen support in devices that can connect to keyboards on the go are made by everyone now. Something that can be productive and consumptive when needed. That's what I'm really digging about this Surface Go and there's been a lot of ink on this subject. It's super portable but can be productive and weight no more than an iPad if you don't need the keyboard. So type up whatever and then read it on the go or on the couch.
I don't think your love crusade for Surface and other 2-in-1 devices reflects the actual use numbers or actual usage patterns.

I get than many how don't agree with me on the subject of Windows 10 won't get it, but it is the kind of device that one tends to expect to work just like a Windows laptop, and it's very good at that with it's constraints, but then can be used at least some of the time without the Type Cover. Touch scrolling through web pages (Chrome and FF work for that on Windows and Linux), PDFs, Office docs, text documents, that tends to work reasonably well.
People prefer their smartphones or more practical tablets for consumption. Actual need for current format 2in1 devices is slim.

Libre Office just has no concept of such a basic thing that is supported on millions of devices now, yes even devices that can run Linux and support touch.
They have more important things to improve than features for a niche of a niche of a niche users.

Again, the fact that you always resort to 2in1s to justify Win10's general suckness is telling.
 
Thus things like the Store and S Mode that some folks love to turn into conspiracy theories.

Yes, and GamesForWindowsLive was not a conspiracy to lock people into MS only eco-system. It didn't take away save game access when they took it down either. I have more trust with EA/Origin than I do MS on the digital store front.

It is infuriating. I cannot fathom what the fuck it's possibly doing to take so long.

They added in "fast boot" in win8/10, they must now take away fast updates.
 
I don't think your love crusade for Surface and other 2-in-1 devices reflects the actual use numbers or actual usage patterns.


All I'm saying is that there must be a decent market for them otherwise I doubt OEMs would have as many models as they do.
They have more important things to improve than features for a niche of a niche of a niche users.

A few years ago I would be more inclined to agree. If you don't use touch devices you wouldn't see it but a good number of desktop applications these days have some level of touch support and it's fairly common in productivity apps, even the WPS suite supports touch.

Again, the fact that you always resort to 2in1s to justify Win10's general suckness is telling.

Not sure why everyone has to have the same opinion on everything. I use a lot of different Windows 10 devices, they've been working very well overall. As much as you might not like Windows 10, there's nothing else that'll support all of these devices for what they were designed to do.
 
Yes, and GamesForWindowsLive was not a conspiracy to lock people into MS only eco-system.

But that's not how the Store works. Many of the apps have multiple distribution methods. It's interesting to see on one hand people blast Windows for malware issues then on the other blast Windows for having a curated store to help deal with the issue.
 
It's interesting to see on one hand people blast Windows for malware issues then on the other blast Windows for having a curated store to help deal with the issue.
The answer to cancer is not more cancer. And the windows 10 Store is not anti-malware, despite your false narrative. One's got nothing to do with the other.

Curated? Have you actually looked inside of that cesspool? Third worlder knockoff apps as far as the eye can see - still - going on 6 years now. "But wut about Netflix" - always resorting to the same exception proves the rule.
 
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The answer to cancer is not more cancer. And the windows 10 Store is not anti-malware, despite your false narrative. One's got nothing to do with the other.

Curated? Have you actually looked inside of that cesspool? Third worlder knockoff apps as far as the eye can see - still - going on 6 years now. "But wut about Netflix" - always resorting to the same exception proves the rule.

I'm far more familiar with the Store than most here. Sure there's a lot of junk, but then there's things Xodo. I get that it's a thing for Windows 10 haters to blast every damned thing about but the Store is just another source of software, outside of games I'm guessing about 40% of my software is coming through there now? Maybe not that much but I mean hell there is a CBS app, I signed up for it to watch Star Trek so I'm using that to watch Star Trek.
 
For those people who think that Microsoft doesn't have to evolve Windows into being more than just a traditional desktop, watch Linus in this video specifically at the 6 minute mark where he talks about Samsung DeX. It may not be completely polished yet but you best believe that in the near future... this is what desktop computing is going to be!!! Windows, if it doesn't evolve, will becoming nothing more than a distant memory. Android is destined to replace everything.

 
Android is destined to replace everything.

Definitely agreed. However this one, Google is positioning ChromeOS to be its tablet OS though, which should ultimately is a combo of Chrome browser, Android apps and desktop Linux apps. In looking at reviews of the Tab S4, seems to have kind of missed the mark with a lot of reviewers as 2 in 1 productivity tablet. Awkward launch with the Note 9 that was the thing everyone wanted to see and then getting compared to the Surface Go which seems to be getting overall positive reviews.

Something like the Surface Go, is there really any doubt that PCs are headed in this direction by now? Something that's light and can go every, does all the productive tasks you need, can be hooked to external peripherals for greater stationary productivity and offers entertainment value. If Windows does die off, it's not going to be from a pure desktop OS, it'll be from something like ChromeOS that's essentially doing EXACTLY what Windows 10 is doing just with a different tech stack. A solid Store for Windows is way more important to its success long term than update issues.
 
Is there really any doubt that PCs are headed in this direction by now?
Nope, absolutely not. This is the future of the desktop and anyone who tries to deny it is quite simply ignorant of the trends in the marketplace. If you don't see this then you need to open your eyes and look five to ten years down the road. As for us diehard desktop users? Sorry, we will be a dying breed.
 
Nope, absolutely not. This is the future of the desktop and anyone who tries to deny it is quite simply ignorant of the trends in the marketplace. If you don't see this then you need to open your eyes and look five to ten years down the road. As for us diehard desktop users? Sorry, we will be a dying breed.

It's not a zero sum game. Mainstream PCs have been going every more mobile since laptops become affordable. But there will always be folks who need "more power!". But yeah, something like a Surface Go, sub two pounds, that accommodates whatever input for whatever task and that can be docked on a desktop, that'll be the mainstream productivity PC
 
Microsoft just launched its smallest and maybe most interesting Surface device this week in the Surface Go.

I'm typing all of this from my Surface Go, a pretty resource constrained device that's got all of this "bloat" and it's running quite well.

What makes the Go interesting is its size, weight and form factor. The tablet by itself weighs in at about 18 ounces, just a over a pound.

I just bought a Surface Go three days ago.

My three daily driver PCs are my sig rig, 15" Surface Book 2 512 GB and now a Surface Go 8 GB/128 GB. These devices aren't perfect but they PACKED with functionality

disabling S mode was one of the first things I did when I got my Surface Go last week.

It's just that I got a Surface Go the other day and one of the very first things I did was turn off S mode.

Got the Surface Go last week, this thing is actually quite remarkable.

That's what I'm really digging about this Surface Go

Samsung just released the Tab S4 which is a direct competitor to the Surface Go and in looking at the reviews of the S4, the Go cleaned it's clock as a 2 in 1 productivity device.

Something like the Surface Go, is there really any doubt that PCs are headed in this direction by now?

But yeah, something like a Surface Go, sub two pounds, that accommodates whatever input for whatever task and that can be docked on a desktop, that'll be the mainstream productivity PC

What are your thoughts on the new Surface Go? :D
 
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But that's not how the Store works. Many of the apps have multiple distribution methods. It's interesting to see on one hand people blast Windows for malware issues then on the other blast Windows for having a curated store to help deal with the issue.

They key being many but not all. Reading the various trials and tribulations of gears of war4 and sea of thieves players for win10 only has not impressed me.
 
They key being many but not all. Reading the various trials and tribulations of gears of war4 and sea of thieves players for win10 only has not impressed me.

I have GoW 4 and never had any problems with it, hell even supports SLI well. A store is just what you have to have these days for a consumer OS. Microsoft should have developed one many years ago.
 
I have GoW 4 and never had any problems with it, hell even supports SLI well. A store is just what you have to have these days for a consumer OS. Microsoft should have developed one many years ago.
Isn't that what Steam is for?
 
Isn't that what Steam is for?

So Steam is supposed to distribute Windows apps like Netflix, Xodo, Hulu etc? And Microsoft has to give Steam 30% for all of its games?

The store hate at this point I think is irrational. I get that a lot you think there's only junk there but there's obviously a lot more there than many of you realize. If you don't use it then that's to be expected.
 
I have GoW 4 and never had any problems with it, hell even supports SLI well. A store is just what you have to have these days for a consumer OS. Microsoft should have developed one many years ago.
I used to think that, but seeing as how they were late to the party with GFWL and how that turned out, I think they inadvertently did us a favor by dropping PC gaming for 15 years and letting steam pick it up.
 
So Steam is supposed to distribute Windows apps like Netflix, Xodo, Hulu etc? And Microsoft has to give Steam 30% for all of its games?

The store hate at this point I think is irrational. I get that a lot you think there's only junk there but there's obviously a lot more there than many of you realize. If you don't use it then that's to be expected.
I only use Steam or Oculus stores.

MS games?
 
I have GoW 4 and never had any problems with it, hell even supports SLI well. A store is just what you have to have these days for a consumer OS. Microsoft should have developed one many years ago.

And yet I have Quantum Break on Steam that was originally win10/xboxone only. No GoW yet though. If its popular enough or a console seller, they'll keep that monopoly only access.
 
And yet I have Quantum Break on Steam that was originally win10/xboxone only. No GoW yet though. If its popular enough or a console seller, they'll keep that monopoly only access.

Since Steam isn't free for the publisher "monopoly only access" isn't the full truth.
 
What are your thoughts on the new Surface Go? :D

If Microsoft created a console called the 2600 and released a game called ET he'd be doing all he can to tell anyone that cares to listen how good it is. The reality is, we all know how good ET turned out to be. ;)
 
If Microsoft created a console called the 2600 and released a game called ET he'd be doing all he can to tell anyone that cares to listen how good it is. The reality is, we all know how good ET turned out to be. ;)

It's an enthusiasts forum and this is my latest toy. We were getting into that Libre Office debate and to test this thing and all the stuff we were talking about I loaded up Libre Office 6.1 and like damn, it works well. A damned 10” 18 ounce Windows 10 tablet running full desktop versions of Microsoft Office, Libre Office and WPS Office side by side by side with decent performance.

I get that some to love to hate Windows and Microsoft but there those that think that kind of stuff is just fucking cool.
 
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