Why Microsoft Killed the Windows Start Button

[Ur_Mom]

As much as people my say that the Start Screen doesn't work well with keyboards and mice the Start Menu almost doesn't work at all with touch. .

This is something I agree with. I've played with Windows 7 with a touchscreen. Windows 7 is not a touchscreen OS. It's difficult to use - It required a fine touch, which fingers didn't do well.

Windows 8 is definitely a touchscreen OS. But, they are pulling out a lot of the non-touchscreen features to make it easier for both sides. Some are welcome, some are not. Lots of hate, though. I like the Start menu, because I've become so used to it and use it all the time with older OS's.

DeathPrincess uses a Mac, so her opinion doesn't matter.

 

[DeathPrincess]

Pen and touch work VERY well in Windows 8. You may not have use of them but some people do even in Windows 7 and more will with Windows 8 and new hardware.

I has a wacom! You know that! Which works fine in 7, and windows 98SE (in a VM), as it works like a mouse, so you can do any mousey based things and mousey focussed things already. 8 is actually kind of worse because the hover start corner whatever things instead of just clicking a visible button, and then driver issues. It has mouse level accuracy so the AOL style touch buttons do nothing for anything really, just mean less stuff to click and more scrolling. But YMMV.

Aw, you got here long before I could herald your triumphant arrival.

I did it for you!

Why do you hate lambs Mr. Heatlesssun!?! Whyyyyy??

 

[eon]

i for one hate the whole application pin feature in the taskbar. It clutters the bar and it annoys me having to see which apps are and not running. Quicklaunch worked perfectly fine.

 

[SkribbelKat]

I don't have anything pinned to my taskbar.

Your taskbar sounds very lonely and neglected.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

Your taskbar sounds very lonely and neglected.

Me know how use compugar.

Well, at work I do have a loaded taskbar. Just not at home.

I don't have any icons on my desktop either.

 

[SkribbelKat]

I did it for you!

Why do you hate lambs Mr. Heatlesssun!?! Whyyyyy??

But you didn't do it with love and adoration!

Me know how use compugar.

Well, at work I do have a loaded taskbar. Just not at home.

I don't have any icons on my desktop either.

*gasp* Your desktop sounds really lonely too. I'm surprised both haven't left you for a user that will give them both the attention they desire.

 

[wonderfield]

i for one hate the whole application pin feature in the taskbar. It clutters the bar and it annoys me having to see which apps are and not running.

Open apps have a quite obvious (almost too obvious) white shiny rectangle enclosing their icons.

 

[PornoSatan]

Microsoft has gradually been improving the start button and taskbar over the years - the correct approach. Then all of the sudden they're like "This process is too slow, lets just nuke it"

Sad times

 

[DeathPrincess]

DeathPrincess uses a Mac, so her opinion doesn't matter.

Filthy lies!

[COLOR="22222"]It's actually 2 months since i've had to use one...i've been in a much better mood... Maybe I should load up a VM of whatever cat to get me all angry (it's rage therapy, "Why are the buttons over there?! Why can't I resize from the visible corner!? Fuck you stupid 1/5th of the screen filling bouncing bar! Lolipop of death, I only used the calculator!?!..." Though mostly it's "grrr why no aero snap or NTFS!?!" and the hourly crashes if asked to used 50% CPU and the messing up USB sticks...gah...need tribal scream! Hmm...). [/COLOR]

Ur_Mom uses Gentoo (exclusively)!

 

[heatlesssun]

Of no consequence to what I said.

Well you only pointed out the money going to Microsoft so yes ignoring the point that most of the money doesn't go to Microsoft is of utmost consequence to what you said. This is a new revenue stream for developers in general much more than Microsoft.

Incorrect. Microsoft will still charge developers the $49 or $99 developer registration fee to distribute free apps.

Sure lots of money to be made there with store maintenance. So, ever mention any of these things about Apple's store?

 

[Ur_Mom]

Filthy lies!

Ur_Mom uses Gentoo (exclusively)!

Debian, and I'm glad it's not exclusively.

 

[heatlesssun]

I has a wacom! You know that! Which works fine in 7, and windows 98SE (in a VM), as it works like a mouse, so you can do any mousey based things and mousey focussed things already. 8 is actually kind of worse because the hover start corner whatever things instead of just clicking a visible button, and then driver issues. It has mouse level accuracy so the AOL style touch buttons do nothing for anything really, just mean less stuff to click and more scrolling. But YMMV.

All I'll say is that system wide to improvements to inking and in particular the tablet input panel make inking better in 8 than 7. And there will probably be a lot more apps for Windows 8 that actually have integrated pen support as there will be more tablet PCs sold next year probably with pens than have ever been sold in the last 10 years.

 

[wonderfield]

Well you only pointed out the money going to Microsoft...

The title of the thread is "Why Microsoft Killed the Windows Start Button".

Sure lots of money to be made there with store maintenance. So, ever mention any of these things about Apple's store?

You made a false claim and I corrected you. Of what relevance does this have with the Mac App Store?

 

[schizrade]

I never use the start menu, and when I do I hit the windows key.

 

[WaltC]

I pin a few things to the task bar--but my task bar is also positioned at the top of my screen instead of the bottom--holdover from my Amiga workbench years... I only pin browser icons, calculator, libraries and the media-player icon there. For these things I like to pin because a pinned application takes only one mouse click to run as opposed to two...

But I have no understanding why task bar pinning might be considered a replacement for the Start menu. Eh? Ever since I moved from Amiga Workbench to Windows in the early 90's I've followed another Amiga GUI habit--putting program shortcuts on my desktop. That predates pinning by well over a decade and is something you could always do in Windows--so why didn't Microsoft see that as the reason to do away with the start menu years ago? It's no more valid a reason than pinning behavior, and people running Windows have been doing it far longer.

Meh...I think some guy at Microsoft didn't use the Start menu for much and had the "brilliant" idea to do away with it, with this flimsy rationale as his excuse. I don't use the start menu for much, but I *do* use it. Unnecessary capitulation to the poisonous idea that tablets are going to "outsell PCs" next year...I rather doubt that. In fact, if people buy tablets at all they'll buy them to use additionally as opposed to "instead of" personal computers--much like the fact that cell phones don't usurp personal computer sales, either.

 

[heatlesssun]

You made a false claim and I corrected you. Of what relevance does this have with the Mac App Store?

I didn't make a false claim. A developer can put as many free apps up as they want, many developers will put up free apps. So there's a developer registration fee. Supporting the store to test and deploy those free apps probably will more than eat up those fees. You're the one making at best an unproven claim because you're pointing at the developer registration fees and pretending that there's money being made there. Those fees aren't going to generate Microsoft any real profits.

And all I'm saying about Apple is that the same points that you're making about the Windows Store also apply to App Store. So unless you've made this argument About the App Store I don't know why you would be making the for the Windows Store.

I'm not an Apple fan but overall I've never had a problem with the App Store and thus no real problem with the Windows Store.

 

[wonderfield]

You're the one making at best an unproven claim because you're pointing at the developer registration fees and pretending that there's money being made there. Those fees aren't going to generate Microsoft any real profits.

Accusing me of making an unproven claim and then making an unproven claim in the very next sentence. This is a clear example of perfectly logical, cogent behavior.

And all I'm saying about Apple is that the same points that you're making about the Windows Store also apply to App Store.

I never stated otherwise. What are you going on about?

 

[GoldenTiger]

Of no consequence to what I said.


Incorrect. Microsoft will still charge developers the $49 or $99 developer registration fee to distribute free apps.

Free apps, not free registration. Read.

 

[MavericK]

*gasp* Your desktop sounds really lonely too. I'm surprised both haven't left you for a user that will give them both the attention they desire.

Lol, no kidding. Having zero desktop icons is about as silly as having a million of them, IMO. It's there for a reason, use it!

I also use the Start Menu often on Windows 7, so this change in Windows 8 seems silly to me. I'll likely just stick to Win 7, which is fine with me.

 

[Kenjiwing]

I use the start menu to launch everything.. just what im used to. It wouldnt be a big issue learning how to not use it but ill prob just skip win 8 all together.

 

[wonderfield]

Lol, no kidding. Having zero desktop icons is about as silly as having a million of them, IMO. It's there for a reason, use it!

I don't see any particular reason to use desktop shortcuts when you can pin frequently-used apps. It minimizes complexity by minimizing duplication. I only use the desktop as a kind of a "scratchpad" — it's a good place to store files you're going to use but won't be holding on to for any length of time, since the desktop is easily accessed from file open/save dialogs.

 

[heatlesssun]

Accusing me of making an unproven claim and then making an unproven claim in the very next sentence. This is a clear example of perfectly logical, cogent behavior.

It's common sense that these developer fees aren't any source of revenue. Indeed if you just look at Apple's stats on the App Store, its hardly a money maker for them.

I never stated otherwise. What are you going on about?

Again, you've never made these points about the App Store so I don't know why you would for the Windows Store. Fair question.

 

[BigJayDogg3]

The start menu after XP was just a glorified search bar. God forbid Microsoft maintain the search functionality while making the start menu itself into something useful.

After living with W8 for a while this is what I came away with. In actual use, it impacted my daily use 0%, and gave me an environment I can use while not sitting directly in front of my computer. It isn't a 10 foot interface, but 4-6 is all I needed anyway. At that range, the desktop is completely useless.

And when I'm sitting at normal desktop distances, I just use the search feature. The one thing I dislike is having to go to the right of the screen to select "Settings" when I want to do a system options change.

Honestly. I think it would be cool to move over to an Apple OS for email, browsing and the like. I can use bootcamp 4.0 to play Windows games. No problem at all.

Still going to have to buy a Windows license, and that's all MS really cares about.

 

[Night_Hawk-19]

Windows 7 has been a great addiction. What I have seen of Windows 8 really doesn't benefit me in any way. Microsoft should add features that are meaningful and make an operating system enjoyable.

 

[wonderfield]

It's common sense that these developer fees aren't any source of revenue.

It is "common sense" for anyone who wishes to paint a favorable image of a company's intentions. It is not "common sense" for those who have no such wish.

Again, you've never made these points about the App Store so I don't know why you would for the Windows Store. Fair question.

I don't understand what "points" you're referring to. You need to clarify if you desire a response.

 

[temujin987]

well, it has an advantage... once xp support ends (or has it ended?), I may get a new computer with more than 1 gb ram that runs win7. at least we use office 2007. the other company I had an interview with showed me their monthly reporting. so the dude opened excel and whaddayaknow. it was excel 2003. after I finished vomiting, I tried to keep the rest of the interview short and signed the other offer. this must be the first time I am not in favor of new software.

 

[heatlesssun]

I use the start menu to launch everything.. just what im used to. It wouldnt be a big issue learning how to not use it but ill prob just skip win 8 all together.

But there's no reason to skip using the Start Screen. On a 1366x768 screen which will be the minimum resolution that most Windows 8/RT will have a person can easily launch 2 dozen apps just as quickly from the Start Screen as the Start Menu using a mouse.

I understand there are reasons to mot like Metro but this notion that launching apps from the Start Screen is somehow less efficient with a mouse overall just doesn't make a lot of sense in my 9 months of Windows 8 desktop use.

 

[Jagger100]

I've always pinned somewhere between 4-10 items on a toolbar since forever. And left the less used stuff on the start menu. The start menu and toolbar are for launching things without having to close the current view. I want to have obscure data acquistion system open, launch excel at bottom, then paste into excel. Then launch powerpoint and paste into powerpoint. With toolbar and/or start menu I don't have to go back to the desktop to launch those two other applications.

 

[SixFootDuo]

I'm sure Stardock will have something at launch. An overlay solution for the start menu and like all their other UI products, you will be able to see the slight lag and glitches here and there as you use that product.

We are screwed.

 

[heatlesssun]

It is "common sense" for anyone who wishes to paint a favorable image of a company's intentions. It is not "common sense" for those who have no such wish.

This makes no sense. I'm simply looking at Apple's model and seeing that they aren't making any real money from their App Store. Given that the Windows Store is very close to the App Store, why would Microsoft do any better? Indeed since Microsoft is taking a smaller cut for popular apps they may not do as well as Apple.

I don't understand what "points" you're referring to. You need to clarify if you desire a response.

Hi phide!

 

[MavericK]

I don't see any particular reason to use desktop shortcuts when you can pin frequently-used apps. It minimizes complexity by minimizing duplication. I only use the desktop as a kind of a "scratchpad" — it's a good place to store files you're going to use but won't be holding on to for any length of time, since the desktop is easily accessed from file open/save dialogs.

I use the desktop for that purpose as well, but I also like to have shortcuts to games and things like that, because I have more apps than I want to pin to the taskbar (can easily and quickly get cluttered that way) and it's faster than opening up Steam or opening up the Start Menu or whatnot.

 

[TechLarry]

Ah, bullshit. This is just damage control. If it was really the reason they would have said so from the very start. A bunch of people at MS sat around a big Mahogany table and came up with this fluff.

I NEVER pin to the taskbar. I hate the way Windows 7 combines things when programs are pinned down there. It's too hard to see what's going on with just a glance.

When I install Win7 the first thing I do is remove the pre-pinned stuff, re-enable the quick launch bar, and then what programs I want quick access to I pin to the START menu, not the task bar.

 

[teh_chem]

so they are getting their data from someone most people opt out of??

that does explain their disconnect

LOL, QFT.

No doubt I'm just re-stating what others have already said a million times over, but if it costs you nothing to simply put it there, then why not give everyone the choice? Personally I hate--HATE--pinning applications to the taskbar. I want my taskbar to be a...task bar--a bar containing my current tasks. Not littered with crap that I may or may not use. Yes, I know I'm contradicting myself based on how most phone and tablets function, but on a desktop, you do much more advanced tasks--which implies having an advanced interface. Why not give me the menu of all of my applications, accessories, modules, etc. in a simple start-button click as opposed to being forced to go through an impractical UI to access these items, pinning things that I might use? I can already add a shortcut to my desktop if it's REALLY that important, or a shortcut to quick-launch.

I'm mostly taken aback by how vehemently MS is against their start button in windows 8. I'm not getting how they can monetize the prohibition of the start menu any more than they could monetize having the start menu.

 

[Galvin]

So in windows 8 how do you pin power options to the control panel that's pinned on your taskbar?

 

[TechLarry]

This.

Microsoft is getting into the nasty habit of taking away choices.

Windows 8 and the Start Menu.

Office (and Windows 8) no more Icon bars for you, here's ribbons and you are gonna like it.

The trend is disturbing.

Because fuck you, thats why.

Why isn't there even the option for the start button? You have to drag and hover in the corner. They still for some reason, seem to think an OS is a game or a lifestyle accessory. Not some boring shit that launches all the other exciting stuff and stays the hell out your way instead of stupid full screen menus and ugly GUI.

Wish they would just own up and at least be honest about stuff. It's a push to have their own tablet "application store" thing. So they butchered it into a rather featureless OS service pack to try and force adoption. Only the very naive can't see that.

 

[MavericK]

When I install Win7 the first thing I do is remove the pre-pinned stuff, re-enable the quick launch bar, and then what programs I want quick access to I pin to the START menu, not the task bar.

Same here. The main thing I don't like about pinning is that you can't just click the icon to bring up another instance of the program, because once you open it the icon becomes the open program. So you have to right click and manually open another one. Kind of annoying after awhile and it's easier to just use the Quick Launch bar (another feature that they made overly complicated to get access to in Win 7).

 

[trk2]

For those of you who pin apps in Windows 7, may I ask why you do so over enabling the quick launch toolbar?

I found pinning to clutter up the task bar and make it more difficult to determine which applications are running. I only ran Win7 for about 30 minutes before I searched how to enable the quick launch toolbar so I'm wondering if I just didn't use it long enough to see the advantage.

 

[heatlesssun]

LOL, QFT.

No doubt I'm just re-stating what others have already said a million times over, but if it costs you nothing to simply put it there, then why not give everyone the choice?

But it does cost something which is the main point of Windows 8 if the idea is to "turn off" Metro and just have a keyboard and mouse driven desktop.

 

[wonderfield]

The main thing I don't like about pinning is that you can't just click the icon to bring up another instance of the program, because once you open it the icon becomes the open program. So you have to right click and manually open another one.

Shift-click.

 

[TechLarry]

A touchscreen OS for people that don't have frickin' touchscreens. How brilliant of them.

This is something I agree with. I've played with Windows 7 with a touchscreen. Windows 7 is not a touchscreen OS. It's difficult to use - It required a fine touch, which fingers didn't do well.

Windows 8 is definitely a touchscreen OS. But, they are pulling out a lot of the non-touchscreen features to make it easier for both sides. Some are welcome, some are not. Lots of hate, though. I like the Start menu, because I've become so used to it and use it all the time with older OS's.

DeathPrincess uses a Mac, so her opinion doesn't matter.