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The Outer Worlds 2

I actually don’t care about any of the above. I do what I feel like. Money has different value to me at different points of time for different things. Plus I already said I will play this for “free”. That’s my verdict about this game.

The bargain hunter point was a joke - clearly lost in translation.
 
KickAssCop said:
I actually don’t care about any of the above. I do what I feel like. Money has different value to me at different points of time for different things. Plus I already said I will play this for “free”. That’s my verdict about this game.

The bargain hunter point was a joke - clearly lost in translation.
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Not lost in translation. Lost on someone who can neither read nor use logic.
 
KickAssCop said:
I actually don’t care about any of the above. I do what I feel like. Money has different value to me at different points of time for different things. Plus I already said I will play this for “free”. That’s my verdict about this game.

The bargain hunter point was a joke - clearly lost in translation.
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Yeah, folks not caring is a big reason why prices continue to rise and anti-consumer behavior (like the license crap) by companies is allowed to exist. But at least you're honest about it. I certainly don't expect you to make it your crusade, I'm more just saddened and disappointed with the direction that things seem to be heading (not just applicable to games but monetization and consumer protections in general).

Wasn't sure if that bit was sarcasm or not, but it did cross my mind! :p

Hershy said:
Not lost in translation. Lost on someone who can neither read nor use logic.
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And all you can do is dance around posts, hurling insults.

If you had any self-awareness at all, you’d notice that people only address you in the manner that I did earlier after you talk crap about the forum (or its members) that for some odd reason you choose to remain a part of. It has happened several times. Talk about not being able to read (in your case, both posts and the room).

In the future, maybe try actually responding to my post and attempting to respectfully disagree instead of skipping over it and quoting someone else to insult me. Notice the other one where you called Rev. Night a piece of shit was deleted (presumably not by yourself)? Assuming you're not going to try to deny that's what you meant by quoting him and saying you smelled one...again, maybe take a hint and read the room.
 
Lateralus said:
Once Game Pass captures enough of the market, they can and will exercise even more control over the experience. In addition to having a limited and constantly changing selection of titles, are you OK with seeing ads in the middle of your game (either an obnoxiously intrusive overlay or the game pausing in the middle of gamplay to run an ad)? If you think that sounds absurd, again I would just ask you to look at not only history but what's happening now with existing services like YouTube Premium Lite in order to see where things could easily go.
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I'm even more worried about the game design implications. A complete experience day 1 will become less common. Drip feeding content and features will become the norm for single player games, because they want you to re-subscribe every few months. That $15 a month will likely become $30 spread between two monthly subscriptions. This isn't good for story driven type games. They'll also try and remove/limit features from non-renters. Same type of stuff they do with pre-order bonuses. A few missions, gear/weapons and whatnot will likely be unavailable if you want to buy it.

KickAssCop said:
I wanted to own games as well but then I read a few EULAs and guess what, you own nothing. All these digital games can be recalled.
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Technically that is true. Though it is still much closer to true ownership than a timed rental, and you have much more flexibility with usage.
 
I can see games designed around Gamepass following the same modality as fighting games and MMOs. Where the day 1 version isn't polished, fully thought through, or feature complete. They have to get you hooked on the concept that the good stuff is right around the corner and to truly get the most of it that you can't let that subscription lapse. That day is definitely coming, although there's still something to be said for having access to thousands of other games any time you want.
It won't truly go sideways until things take a turn like with streaming video. Where there are too many different services and none of them have enough compelling content to make/keep anyone happy. When games come and go from Gamepass rapidly and you don't have enough time to complete the titles without crazy marathons. OR too much content gets pushed to non-subscription DLC.
 
I'd rather wait for a sale and buy a game for cheaper rather than play on Game Pass...Game Pass is a great service but it makes it so less and less people are buying games and more people just demo them...I rarely use Game Pass and mostly for games I'm on the fence about rather than big AAA games
 
didn't PC games only recently start to be $70???...how did it jump so fast from $70 to $80?...there were only a handful of games that even hit that $70 mark- Jedi: Survivor, Doom Dark Ages etc
 
Blade-Runner said:
Game Pass is a trojan horse to move gaming to a subscription model where you don't own anything and have to pay a continuing rental fee to play games.
Click to expand...

In Game Pass's defense, having Game Pass + GeForce Now Ultimate on my Nvidia Shield, is just... awesome

- I really don't want to pay 80 for any game, maybe GTA 6 can justify it... But in Obsidian's case, I wager it's more a "well, Avowed didn't sell as well as expected andddd now we're in a jam... this'll bail us out"

And if it's anything like that, I'd pay 80 just to make sure Obsidian keeps making games
 
I don’t know what planet some of you are living on. I used to spend thousands of dollars every year on games, easily.

But because of Gamepass and the option of subbing onto another service for a month or two at will, I’m now spending next to nothing on actual games.

If you want to ‘own’ your games… if that’s your argument… then I can’t even be bothered to argue with you. I’ve been on Gamepass for years. It’s ridiculously inexpensive I can’t imagine a time when I wouldn’t want to subscribe. Effectively, I own the entire library of games.

Anybody who wants to cry about the price of a game can do so. Personally I’m just going to laugh at them.
 
you own the games until you decide to unsubscribe for a month or a few months...then the games are gone...or until Microsoft decides to shut down the service...most people don't replay their games so Game Pass is a great deal but for me personally I prefer to buy them
 
polonyc2 said:
you own the games until you decide to unsubscribe for a month or a few months...
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Yes, but doing so has never even crossed my mind.

Maybe when I was younger and had no money this would have been different, but I pay at least twenty-five bills every month.

My gaming subscriptions are nothing.
 
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Hershy said:
If you want to ‘own’ your games… if that’s your argument… then I can’t even be bothered to argue with you. I’ve been on Gamepass for years. It’s ridiculously inexpensive I can’t imagine a time when I wouldn’t want to subscribe. Effectively, I own the entire library of games.
Click to expand...

...you realize they remove games from Game Pass right? Only Microsoft ones are constantly there. Once they stopped doing the free or $1 month deals the value evaporated for me. $30 (two monthly subscriptions) + $20 (DLC) for a timed game rental just isn't appealing to me. I could buy the game for less, and not deal with the crash prone Xbox client.
 
Take it up with the man. Exactly.

If someone walked into my place of work and complained about the cost I’d say exactly the same thing. I don’t decide the price.
 
The only thing that's kept game prices so low has been extreme competition.
Games should cost well over $100 based on inflation alone.
When you actually compare what you get nowadays and the amount of people that work on a game, etc. we're getting a hell of a bargain.

That being said I'm still not paying $80 for a game. I can get way better value for my money. It's easier than ever to make and sell games and there is no shortage of people that love to do it. Thank you invisible hand.
 
I really can't complain as I remember paying $40 for a copy of Asteroids for my Atari 2600 when it first came out in 1981. Adjusted for inflation that would be around $150 today so still cheap to me when you consider what other forms of entertainment cost and the time you get to enjoy them (Movies, Bowling, Golf, etc.)

I know my wife spends more than $80 a month just on Starbucks!
 
sharknice said:
The only thing that's kept game prices so low has been extreme competition.
Games should cost well over $100 based on inflation alone.
When you actually compare what you get nowadays and the amount of people that work on a game, etc. we're getting a hell of a bargain.
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True, however there is another side of that:

1) Unit costs have gone way down. Back in the old days, you had quite a non-trivial cost in the cartridge itself and the ROM in it. Likewise retail stores take a heavy cut, 100% markup is pretty common. Now that most stuff is all online, that cost has plummeted. The cost to send out a game over the net is pennies, if that, and even the expensive places like Steam only take a 30% cut (big publishers may well negotiate less with them). So while fixed costs (development) are up, unit costs are down meaning better per unit revenue.

2) The market is MUCH larger than it was. You'll hear about a game selling a million copies having "extremely disappointing sales" whereas back in the day that would make it a best seller. That again spreads out the fixed costs of development. If I'm selling 10,000 of something and it cost me $50 million to develop, that thing is going to be expensive AF, probably easily $10,000-$20,000 retail even if it costs me only a couple dollar per unit to make. However if I instead sell 20 million of the same thing, it could easily be $10 retail if per unit cost is low.

3) It gets questionable if all the costs are worth it. I like high end games, but the spend on some of these is getting stupid and the quality doesn't seem to reflect the increased budget over cheaper (but still expensive) development. The response to exploding budgets probably shouldn't be "Well games need to cost more" but maybe "We should be more sensible in our budget allocation."


Basically I can just see both sides of the issue. Ya, inflation is a real thing and games cost a lot of money to be made. They can't keep a low price tag forever and ever or they just flat out won't be able to be made. However they make more both per unit and total, meaning that they can afford to be less expensive.
 
Sycraft said:
True, however there is another side of that:

1) Unit costs have gone way down. Back in the old days, you had quite a non-trivial cost in the cartridge itself and the ROM in it. Likewise retail stores take a heavy cut, 100% markup is pretty common. Now that most stuff is all online, that cost has plummeted. The cost to send out a game over the net is pennies, if that, and even the expensive places like Steam only take a 30% cut (big publishers may well negotiate less with them). So while fixed costs (development) are up, unit costs are down meaning better per unit revenue.

2) The market is MUCH larger than it was. You'll hear about a game selling a million copies having "extremely disappointing sales" whereas back in the day that would make it a best seller. That again spreads out the fixed costs of development. If I'm selling 10,000 of something and it cost me $50 million to develop, that thing is going to be expensive AF, probably easily $10,000-$20,000 retail even if it costs me only a couple dollar per unit to make. However if I instead sell 20 million of the same thing, it could easily be $10 retail if per unit cost is low.

3) It gets questionable if all the costs are worth it. I like high end games, but the spend on some of these is getting stupid and the quality doesn't seem to reflect the increased budget over cheaper (but still expensive) development. The response to exploding budgets probably shouldn't be "Well games need to cost more" but maybe "We should be more sensible in our budget allocation."
Click to expand...
Exactly.

For anyone who wants a deeper dive:


View: https://youtu.be/lxo_PJQ7Ka0?si=dO9wY5lrYE1GYAJd

In the end though - rich or financially irresponsible gamers will continue to pay whatever the industry asks for every new AAA game of interest, others will just buy fewer games, some will switch to Game Pass, some will turn to pirating, etc. I don't think any of us will be able to definitively state how this will play out in the long term, so we'll just have to see, but like sharknice said there are tons of games being made and not everyone will be asking full price because their overhead will be much less than the megacorps. If those studios are rewarded with brisk sales while the giants suffer due to pricing and game quality, the $80 might be confined to just a few studios. I definitely do not think it should be an across the board normalization that takes the place of the previous $60 price point due to the factors Sycraft listed + points in the video.
 
Buy more indie games and wait for steam sales instead of being a hype victim and buying AAA titles on release. Problem solved.

Full price really means fool price.
 
Surprise surprise, all the people who hate gaming don’t want to pay $80 and all the pirates are using the price as an excuse to steal from hard working people.
 
People are forgetting about how bad inflation has been in the last few years. The inflation from 2020-2025 is similar to the inflation from 2007-2020. Salaries for a lot of people follow or surpass inflation and people are happy they get more money. The issue comes from a lot of people view salary increases as charity while they view someone else charging more for a product as criminal activity. For those that have decent paying jobs, a good measure is how much of your of your income is the price of a game today compared to 5 years ago or 15 years ago.

I prefer lower prices, but at the same time I understand why the price of games go up and if the game is right I will pay for it. If a game costs $80 but give me a great experience for 20 hours then it is well worth it. Spending 3k for a gaming PC and crying about that 1k you spent on 15 games in that PC's lifetime is kind of strange to me.

With regards to the Outer Worlds 2, I might play it, but not sure yet. The first one had some good ideas, but it was more of a 6.5-7 for me. Only bought 3 2025 titles this year and can't really se any other must play titles coming out this year, so might give this one a go when I get through my backlog. My main wishes would be better shooting and more interesting quests. A lot of the quests in the original were of kind of generic and the type that I don't remember it a few weeks after I played the game. The best RPGs have quests that you remember years after you played the game.
 
Axman said:
Nobody has forgotten and it's obvious that companies are using inflation as an excuse to jack up prices. We saw the same thing in turbo mode when companies exploited pricing over tariff FUD. These are excuses, not reasons.
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Something that cost $60 in 2020 would about $75 in 2025 when inflation adjusted. The game developers aren't running a charity so you can call it excuses or accept the reality that they aren't obligated to keep the same price forever just because gamers want them to.
 
evhvis said:
Something that cost $60 in 2020 would about $75 in 2025 when inflation adjusted. The game developers aren't running a charity so you can call it excuses or accept the reality that they aren't obligated to keep the same price forever just because gamers want them to.
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That's not how inflation works but in any case inflation has zero to do with the decision to price this at $80. In fact, the devs had nothing to do with the price at all, it was Microsoft's decision:

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/rp...ishes-everybody-could-play-obsidians-new-rpg/

Realistically this is Microsoft setting prices high so that people see Game Pass as a more reasonable alternative than buying games individually.
 
evhvis said:
The issue comes from a lot of people view salary increases as charity
Click to expand...

Salary increases are necessary due to inflation. Otherwise you'll be making less money after working for 10 years than you did day 1. Inflation doesn't just apply to big gaming companies, it applies to regular people as well. Groceries and basic necessities are going up by a significant amount. People have less money to spend, wages have generally not increased at the pace of inflation over the last few years. So yes games are becoming more expensive because comparatively people are earning less. You can't expect that to result in a lot of enthusiasm.

Game quality is seeing a bit of a decrease as well, so people will likely expect better results from a higher price tag.
 
Flogger23m said:
Salary increases are necessary due to inflation. Otherwise you'll be making less money after working for 10 years than you did day 1. Inflation doesn't just apply to big gaming companies, it applies to regular people as well. Groceries and basic necessities are going up by a significant amount. People have less money to spend, wages have generally not increased at the pace of inflation over the last few years. So yes games are becoming more expensive because comparatively people are earning less. You can't expect that to result in a lot of enthusiasm.

Game quality is seeing a bit of a decrease as well, so people will likely expect better results from a higher price tag.
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Maybe quote whole parts instead of cherry picking a few words. It has to do with people's mentality and their lack of ability to understand why prices go up. A lot of people feel they should get pay increases and are mad when other people's pay increases or companies expenses are passed onto their costs. They feel their pay increase should be a given while cost increases should not exist.
 
evhvis said:
Maybe quote whole parts instead of cherry picking a few words. It has to do with people's mentality and their lack of ability to understand why prices go up. A lot of people feel they should get pay increases and are mad when other people's pay increases or companies expenses are passed onto their costs. They feel their pay increase should be a given while cost increases should not exist.
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Tell me how inflation makes this game cost more.
 
The first one didn’t feel like more than a $30 or so game to me, not sure this will be any different. Probably better than Starfield though.
 
Flogger23m said:
That is better. Another price jump so soon was pushing it. Game companies need to learn customers are also facing inflation.
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That's what I don't get. The past few years, all I've heard from numerous folks is about how much the cost of pretty much everything has gone up. I mean pretty much since the pandemic people have been complaining about that...and then everyone was talking about record inflation under the previous administration, etc. I'm not an economist and I'm sure there are multiple factors but it was very, very common to hear folks complaining about "shrinkflation", paying more for less, I've seen with my own eyes the price of new vehicles, food, cost of housing, insurance rates for so many folks skyrocketing, etc. etc. etc. There's no need to list everything that's seemingly increased in price but it's something that many, many folks noticed.

So a lot of folks are feeling the pressure from necessary purchases, and NOW is when AAA game companies think it's a good time to up the ante from $60 to $70 and $80 for games that are definitely not mandatory but more often than not one-and-done, optional entertainment products that studios increasingly want to strip ownership away from and stop supporting in favor of the next $80 shiny thing. GTFO and good luck with that. I mean GTA 6 can/will get it, sure, but some of these other titles that may very well turn out to be 7s instead of 9s, like OW2 and BL4...I don't know man. I think the studios need to work on trimming their own costs instead of constantly inflating their game budgets and expecting everyone to pay more. Every game doesn't need a $500M budget and a $100M marketing campaign and dozens/hundreds of hours of single player content that's mostly time wasting; in fact that's becoming more and more of a sign for me to avoid them. I make a good living, have zero debt and can actually afford to be a supporter of their crap but I'll be boycotting most of the "$80 per game" clowns on principle, and I don't think I'm alone.
 
Only the very best of the best earn the right to charge $80 like GTAVI bc you know that will set a new standard at least technically
Nothing Microslop or Ubislop releases is at that level
 
peppergomez said:
Obsidian make AA level games. $50 is a fair price.
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I'd even say $60 is fair for this. Though I do agree $70 is still a bit much if the quality isn't improved notably over the first game. Content/length is fine, but animations and conversation camera view is just dated and lazy.
 
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