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The Official Guild Wars 2 thread

Vega said:
I just don't want to run around in some easy theme park MMORPG holding hands and not needing more than two brain cells to accomplish anything.
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The opposite end of the spectrum is just as bad, as anyone who's ended up in a GW group with someone who's trying to get their "Survivor" title will know. And I've always loathed xp loss as a death penalty, it's such a dumb mechanic.
I agree there should be risk involved, but I think the "penalty" in terms of GW is that while you're downed, you're not assisting your group (neither is the person reviving you). GW's core focus has always been group play, especially PvP but also PvE, and in that context these mechanics make sense.
 
chockomonkey said:
They mentioned there won't be factions, and that there's world pvp... are they talking about open pvp like vanguard? If that's the case, then imo losing in pvp is enough of a punishment for death, especially if you're fighting over a resource.
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There's multiple types of PvP, iirc. There's structured PvP which is your competitive arena style. This is split into Team matches and Hot Join matches.

Then there's World vs World vs World PvP, which is objective based and takes place across 3 realms (servers) and 4 regions (a region for each realm, and 1 for the center). Each realm competes against each other for the center stage. Your realm can take over another realm's region, and vice versa.
 
RealityCrunch said:
There's multiple types of PvP, iirc. There's structured PvP which is your competitive arena style. This is split into Team matches and Hot Join matches.

Then there's World vs World vs World PvP, which is objective based and takes place across 3 realms (servers) and 4 regions (a region for each realm, and 1 for the center). Each realm competes against each other for the center stage. Your realm can take over another realm's region, and vice versa.
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damnit i just want to give them my money already :(
 
chockomonkey said:
They mentioned there won't be factions, and that there's world pvp... are they talking about open pvp like vanguard? If that's the case, then imo losing in pvp is enough of a punishment for death, especially if you're fighting over a resource.
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Ya but if there is really no penalty to death, it will be almost impossible to control resources and territory when everyone can just resurrect you or you run back into battle from ten feet away from the graveyard. They need a mechanic that puts you at the start of the zone or something so PvP favors the most skilled and not who can just die, respawn and attack the most without getting bored. I have seen that happen to sooo many games.
 
Vega said:
These are the features I am most worried about in Guild Wars 2: Resurrection, The Downed State & Death. These completely remove virtually any penalty for death.

Why is this bad? It's bad because it eliminates risk, it leads to apathy, it leads to not caring. Why should I care about losing when fighting xxxx or player y when I know I will just go into a downed state or just be resurrected by any character in the game if I lose? There is no need to pay attention, there is no nail-biting and sitting on the edge of your seat caring about weather you are going to squeak by the encounter and live. That is what makes games great. Excitement, risk, difficulty.

In for example EQ1, if you died there were serious repercussions. You lost EXP, you lost your body. You were at a serious handi-cap until you did a corpse run and retrieved your body. Those corpse runs could be arduous. That made people pay attention and not want to die. This lead to excitement, difficulty and a sense of accomplishment.

I guess you could call me "hard-core" or whatever, but these soccer-mom player type theme-park features such as Resurrection from any player, the Downed State and lack of any meaningful death penalty will be a serious negative to the game for those of us that like excitement and challenge.

Granted I want GW2 to be a success, it has beautiful art, graphics and some of the ideas are brilliant. I just don't want to run around in some easy theme park MMORPG holding hands and not needing more than two brain cells to accomplish anything.
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I understand your worries, and haven't really thought of it. I played FFXI for a couple years (it was my first MMO), and the death penalties sound like they were the same for EQ. Getting back to your corpse was extremely difficult at times, and sometimes impossible.

I'm actually not sure what happens when you die. Is there a timer/countdown for you to be resurrected, and if you aren't resurrected in that time, you go to some spawn point? Is it unlimited with no spawn point, so you have to find somebody to resurrect you? Either way, I don't think going the "easy way out" when you die would make or break a game for me. Considering there is no open PvP or a fear of being ganked (which I actually liked), your only worries are PvE-related deaths, which really doesn't happen often when you're alone, and if you're grouped, you have people right there to help you out anyway. Which actually makes me wonder something else.

If you can just go resurrect anybody at anytime, even in combat, does that mean you can theoretically just zerg bosses until they die? Continually resurrect your teammates so you are constantly putting pressure on the boss. I have no idea, death and resurrection is something I would like a little more information on.

chockomonkey said:
They mentioned there won't be factions, and that there's world pvp... are they talking about open pvp like vanguard? If that's the case, then imo losing in pvp is enough of a punishment for death, especially if you're fighting over a resource.
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There is no world pvp (unfortunately, I love world pvp), there are two structured areas for PvP. You have your normal arena battlegrounds which you might be familiar with if you played WoW. Then there are the huge WvWvW (think server v. server v. server) battles that are two weeks long. If your world wins it, it goes on to fight two higher ranked servers.

Edit: Damn, I just realized I hadn't refreshed the page for hours, so some of the things I answered are already answered. Oh well.
 
Vega said:
Ya but if there is really no penalty to death, it will be almost impossible to control resources and territory when everyone can just resurrect you or you run back into battle from ten feet away from the graveyard.
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There'll likely be restrictions / caveats with resurrection, so I wouldn't worry too much.
 
Each time you die the less time folks have to resurrect you
Structured PvP and Dungeons are both limited to 5 people at a time. Kill all 5 and you have to respawn at your base / respawn-point.

PvP / WvW you can stomp (I think faster than you can resurrect) to prevent revives.

"World PvP" = WvWvW combat. Specialized map and play-area for PvP between servers. Sidekicked to level 80 but current equipment (and can gain XP while inside to level while PvPing).
 
I want to get excited, but every time I get excited about an MMORPG it blows donkey balls. I really do hope GW2 is amazing though, but not holding my breath.
 
officer921 said:
I want to get excited, but every time I get excited about an MMORPG it blows donkey balls. I really do hope GW2 is amazing though, but not holding my breath.
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I agree. There have been so many horrible MMORPG's the last decade you almost become numb to a new release.

I don't think there has been what I'd call a "great" MMORPG since 2003, with Eve Online's launch. Before that was EQ1, Shadowbane, Asheron's Call and Dark Age of Camelot. Everything since 2003 has been rubbish.

So after nine years of crap, can GW2 or TSW pick up the torch? I have my doubts unfortunately. People are just too used to "easy mode" these days and would rather "watch" a game than play one.
 
Vega said:
I agree. There have been so many horrible MMORPG's the last decade you almost become numb to a new release.

I don't think there has been what I'd call a "great" MMORPG since 2003, with Eve Online's launch. Before that was EQ1, Shadowbane, Asheron's Call and Dark Age of Camelot. Everything since 2003 has been rubbish.

So after nine years of crap, can GW2 or TSW pick up the torch? I have my doubts unfortunately. People are just too used to "easy mode" these days and would rather "watch" a game than play one.
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Nostalgia goggles in full swing here I see.
 
Nope. Companies since 2004-2005 have decided easy mode theme parks are where the masses and money are. MMORPG's have changed drastically after the first four years of MMORPG's. And not in a good way. I absolutely hate the WoW MMORPG model and everyone has been trying to copy that since 2005.

Name one PvP MMORPG over the last seven years that can compare to my 2003 and earlier list? They don't, I've tried just about all of them.
 
officer921 said:
I want to get excited, but every time I get excited about an MMORPG it blows donkey balls. I really do hope GW2 is amazing though, but not holding my breath.
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I definitely agree. I am also concerned because I didn't care for the original GW. I don't think I ever even hit level cap in GW.
 
Vega said:
Nope. Companies since 2004-2005 have decided easy mode theme parks are where the masses and money are. MMORPG's have changed drastically after the first four years of MMORPG's. And not in a good way. I absolutely hate the WoW MMORPG model and everyone has been trying to copy that since 2005.

Name one PvP MMORPG over the last seven years that can compare to my 2003 and earlier list? They don't, I've tried just about all of them.
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Isn't the WoW MMORPG model simply a refined EQ model with a high quality IP & production values? Yes, it is.

WoW was a great game during its time. It is on the decline now though. Mainly for the things you listed. Other than that I completely agree with you - all the other MMOs to date have been garbage. I think EVE could be a good game but its skill level system is pretty dumb. In other games it seems for some reason the devs keep wanting to focus on PvE. I guess it's much easier to develop and etc, but the money is moving to PvP. I think there is just a general level of incompetence in today's game designers. Take Bioware for example.
 
What's everyone's planned class and race makeup so far?

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be an Asura, if not, Human.
Still can't decide a class. I've seen tons of gameplay videos and I'm torn between Necro, Elementalist, Thief, and Ranger.
 
Skizzy said:
What's everyone's planned class and race makeup so far?

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be an Asura, if not, Human.
Still can't decide a class. I've seen tons of gameplay videos and I'm torn between Necro, Elementalist, Thief, and Ranger.
Click to expand...

Call me a sucker - Norn Warrior.

Though necro's are fun and dirty.
 
i love how people cite eve online as some great pinnacle if mmo launches. It sucked ass, no pvp, no nothing except macro mining. I would literally send my ship out go to class, come home a couole hours later, then resend my ship out. How exciting and fresh.

The only thing that saved Eve was the addition of PvP. Outside of that Eve Online's launch was boring, empty, and a lesson in macro farming and economics. Honestly, im surprised it made it through the first year, but it is a great example of what happens if you have great feedback and support with your community and intelligent devs.

Something I believe GW has in abundance which should all but guarantee an excellent alternative to WoW, SW:ToR, etc...
 
Climber said:
i love how people cite eve online as some great pinnacle if mmo launches. It sucked ass, no pvp, no nothing except macro mining. I would literally send my ship out go to class, come home a couole hours later, then resend my ship out. How exciting and fresh.

The only thing that saved Eve was the addition of PvP. Outside of that Eve Online's launch was boring, empty, and a lesson in macro farming and economics. Honestly, im surprised it made it through the first year, but it is a great example of what happens if you have great feedback and support with your community and intelligent devs.

Something I believe GW has in abundance which should all but guarantee an excellent alternative to WoW, SW:ToR, etc...
Click to expand...
Once could also say that they went to far with the PVP and group focus of Eve. Industry in Eve is extremely boring. And you have to wait around for a big pvp group to get together and go out with them, or you just get raped. That's why Eve is such a massive time sync. They skipped creating any good single player content and focused on PVP. A PVP fleet op can literally last 12 hours. If you bug out early then you could get stranded in your multibillion isk ship 70 jumps (hours of RL time to get out) in enemy territory. And if you can't find a PVP gang, then you better stay docked or go to safe space. You can't just log on and play, you have to wait around for several minutes or hours to get something going.

I spent 6 years in Eve, have a massive skilled PVP pilot, but still quit due to not just being able to "play" Eve. You pretty much have to live it.

Hopefully GW2 can find a balance somewhere.
 
officer921 said:
Once could also say that they went to far with the PVP and group focus of Eve. Industry in Eve is extremely boring. And you have to wait around for a big pvp group to get together and go out with them, or you just get raped. That's why Eve is such a massive time sync. They skipped creating any good single player content and focused on PVP. A PVP fleet op can literally last 12 hours. If you bug out early then you could get stranded in your multibillion isk ship 70 jumps (hours of RL time to get out) in enemy territory. And if you can't find a PVP gang, then you better stay docked or go to safe space. You can't just log on and play, you have to wait around for several minutes or hours to get something going.

I spent 6 years in Eve, have a massive skilled PVP pilot, but still quit due to not just being able to "play" Eve. You pretty much have to live it.

Hopefully GW2 can find a balance somewhere.
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Being an Eve veteran myself you make some good points. It got to the point that I gave up large fleet type fighting and went pirate so I could just log on, un-dock in my low-sec system and just starting killing people that came through. Although that got pretty boring after a while and we would either get totally blobbed or people would just avoid us all together. (Rancer) :D

I haven't played in a good year or so. Seems Eve is a game that people take extended breaks free. Seems that Incarna station type stuff was a flop anyways. If GW2 and or TSW world fail I will most likely get back into Eve.
 
What killed Eve for me was the lock on auto attack mmo combat, that just doesn't fly for me with space sims/flight games, I need my cross hairs and actual firing.

Guild Wars 2 is one of my last hopes for mmo's.

I just don't get this genre, I mean people don't seem to grasp, MMO's do NOT have to be the EQ formula over and over and over. Every mmo want sto chase the "successful" one on the block and doesn't want to try something new/different apart from mostly indie mmo's that sadly, even if they are good, don't get off the ground because of lack of funding/players/advertising.

I played mmo's since UO/QQ, from those to Asheron's call (still amazed how a game that long ago did SEASONS with actual snow falling/accumulating and new games can't...) Anarchy online, daoc, EQ2, Vanguard, Lineage, Eve, SWG, etc.

Apart from the early generation of mmo's, where you had developers who did different things, UO and EQ were EXTREMELY vastly different games. EQ was your now mainstream style of themepark, with a holy trinity class system, but much much harder then WoW and newer mmo's. UO was a wide open world with a sandbox focus (think Skyrim/TES, but mmo) that actually let people GASP! Roleplay and have full reign over their character to play how they wanted, good, bad, anything in between and people who just didn't care (IE crafters/neutral).

After EQ virtually all big AAA backed mmo's followed it's formula, with only a fewl smaller indie games that tried something different.

I have grown tired of the basic mmo formula , it's based on a broken mechanic of having a carrot on a stick (loot) being the driving force insteaed of the actual GAMEPLAY and things. You mention trying something different then what WoW does (IE full pvp with player looting of EVERYTHING) and people go banannas because they can't grasp how different it can be).

Guild Wars 2 is one of the only recent/upcoming AAA backed mmo's that is actually trying something different/new in many ways, from it's combat to ditching the trinity class setup/focus (thank you, I hated the hearl/dps/tank setup, so boring and pigeon holes both combat and group makeups).

I just hope they keep on doing their own thing and take it even further down the road.
 
still amazed how a game that long ago did SEASONS with actual snow falling/accumulating and new games can't...
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WoW couldn't even do night-time. The nights were dark once, but since they stuck with a 24 hour clock and didn't want to make people fight in zones that were slightly dark, they removed it. Hell, Blizzard even toned down the weather effects with each expansion. I remember when they first introduced weather, you'd get torrential down-pours where you couldn't see 20 meters in front of you, sand-storms and blizzards. Now barely anything. In fact, I can't remember a single weather event occurring in Cataclysm aside from a pitiful little dust-whirl or snow-flake drop here and there. I can't fathom what would make an MMO developer tone down stuff which gives a real immersion experience with the world, and turns the world into one long day time with nothing interesting happen.
 
RealityCrunch said:
WoW couldn't even do night-time. The nights were dark once, but since they stuck with a 24 hour clock and didn't want to make people fight in zones that were slightly dark, they removed it. Hell, Blizzard even toned down the weather effects with each expansion. I remember when they first introduced weather, you'd get torrential down-pours where you couldn't see 20 meters in front of you, sand-storms and blizzards. Now barely anything. In fact, I can't remember a single weather event occurring in Cataclysm aside from a pitiful little dust-whirl or snow-flake drop here and there. I can't fathom what would make an MMO developer tone down stuff which gives a real immersion experience with the world, and turns the world into one long day time with nothing interesting happen.
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Lol, I didn't know they did that. Talk about lame. Not that I play the game but the extent they will go to make the game "easy-mode" is laughable.
 
RealityCrunch said:
I can't fathom what would make an MMO developer tone down stuff which gives a real immersion experience with the world, and turns the world into one long day time with nothing interesting happen.
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So world of warcraft could run easier on lower-end PCs without giving a gameplay advantage to lower-end PCs. I believe you mentioned that you cannot see more than 20 feet infront of your character during those dust-sandstorms and heavy rainpouts? On the high-end machines, the rain looked awesome. On low-end machines, there was no rain. Meaning low-end machines running low graphics could see 100+ feet in world pvp/BGs/etc while high-end machines with high-graphical settings were limited to 20 feet less those high-end machines drop down to low-settings to see 100+ feet.

Guess what people with high-end machines started to do to get a performance advantage/level the playing field? So then Blizzard had the choice of somehow uglifying low-detail settings more to make them limited to 20 feet of vision during rain even though they can't see the rain effects....like dramatically reducing draw-distance for example or reduce the weather effects on high-settings so you can see further and more higher-end machine gamers would choose high detail setttings.

Thus improving the overall graphical state for both low-end/high-end gamers by not nerfing low-end graphics and not forcing high-end gamers to play on low detail settings to stay competitive.

It sucks in a way, but, I understand WHY they decided to get rid of the weather effects. I personally wish they had just uglified low graphics details to convince more ppl to upgrade their hardware :).
 
RealityCrunch said:
Open beta starts in March. I'd say 3 or so months after that.
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Nice, I like the idea of an open beta in March to be honest. I from personal experience, have found mmorpgs like Rift to take more along the lines of 1-2 months for release from open-beta and more like 3 months from closed beta.

March + 1-2 months = April to Mayish. That's great as far as I'm concerned as a university student simply because it means that guild wars 2 should be released around when summer-break starts. So I can play GW2 to my hearts content, go hardcore in the game and quit just in time for when September runs around. I figure, playing 3-4 hours a day over the summer, I can put in 360-480 hours and have completed a fair bit of the solo-content, some group content and had some pvp fun.
 
WBurchnall said:
So world of warcraft could run easier on lower-end PCs without giving a gameplay advantage to lower-end PCs
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There is a weather slider in the graphics options, so I'm not sure if that's the reason tbh.

I believe you mentioned that you cannot see more than 20 feet infront of your character during those dust-sandstorms and heavy rainpouts? On the high-end machines, the rain looked awesome. On low-end machines, there was no rain. Meaning low-end machines running low graphics could see 100+ feet in world pvp/BGs/etc while high-end machines with high-graphical settings were limited to 20 feet less those high-end machines drop down to low-settings to see 100+ feet.
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Wouldn't that be a personal preference / decision, though? I've played a few MMOs with heavy weather effects, and when I wanted to reduce the impact I simply adjusted the in-game weather setting. Plus the only time rain got that bad was in ZG :p The heaviest rainfall outside of that zone gave you a good 100 yard visibility range, but was still pretty decent rain. Gave a great immersion to the zones. Simply removing the choice altogether by removing the weather completely just seems very extreme, considering the little impact it had (weather was a minimal performance impact compared to any other graphics setting). Now low-end machines and high-end machines have no weather at all. :(

Tbh, it just seems like a "let's make no one angry by making everyone neutral". Now there's no night and no weather, and no one's angry but no one's pleased either.
 
Press betas went out a couple days ago.

Apparently there is going to be a ton of information on February 20, 2012 when they supposedly lift the NDA, according to a few gaming sites who gained access to this beta. (Destructoid, IGN, Tomsguide, etc.) Unfortunately TotalBiscuit hasn't gotten access to the beta yet, which kind of disappoints me. His coverage on the game during Gamescom was great, I think he should have been given access. Some people think they might be doing it in waves though, so hopefully we'll see him in soon.
 
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Skizzy said:
Press betas went out a couple days ago.

Apparently there is going to be a ton of information on February 20, 2012 when they supposedly lift the beta, according to a few gaming sites who gained access to this beta. (Destructoid, IGN, Tomsguide, etc.) Unfortunately TotalBiscuit hasn't gotten access to the beta yet, which kind of disappoints me. His coverage on the game during Gamescom was great, I think he should have been given access. Some people think they might be doing it in waves though, so hopefully we'll see him in soon.
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Love TB and his commentary. Hope he gets in.
 
Can't stand TotalBiscuit. Annoying and doesn't know what he's talking about 90% of the time.
 
I will definitely get this, and mainly because I actually have people to play with now. I had no one to play with in the original and so I got bored of it. But seriously, this looks epic.
 
SolidSnakeUS said:
I will definitely get this, and mainly because I actually have people to play with now. I had no one to play with in the original and so I got bored of it. But seriously, this looks epic.
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Yes it does.

I had people to play with in the original but we got bored after a week. Just wasn't our cup of tea I guess. We played during release and then just 6 months ago to try it out again.
 
TotalBiscuit is granted access in the Guild Wars 2 weekend beta test event. Unfortunately he'll be in Sweden but his team will be filming and he'll add his commentary later on. Still good news though.

Reddit thread with him commenting
Twitter confirmation

And then this information on what he'll be covering, from his Facebook.

TB said:
I am in the Guild Wars 2 beta and I have filming rights. The first beta (they do not have it up 24/7) is this weekend. Just my luck, I'm in Sweden, I can't play, however I am having 2 of my team (Genna and Frank) go on a major filming spree. We've setup a system whereby they can get the footage to me and I'll have a metric ton to work with once I get back from Sweden. Best we can under the circumstances sadly, my actual impressions rather than simply analysis and commentaries will come into play once I get the chance to participate in a future event. All footage is embargoed under the NDA until Monday so streaming is an impossibility, but I get back home on Monday so I can work from that point on.
The channel will be going into major GW2 gear, Cataclysm-style. It is by far the game people want to see the most and it makes sense, bearing in mind the channel really got going as an MMO commentary and news channel, that we continue to focus on upcoming MMOs of importance, which GW2 is currently top of the pile of.

Stuff we are planning on covering, bearing in mind that all characters start at Lv1 in this beta and are deleted after the weekend is done.
Class overviews including skillsets with as many different weapons as we can get.
Skill demonstrations on a per class basis including optimum attack rotations and so forth, basically a large set of "how this works" stuff.
Stats explanations, a primer on a class by class basis on what's good for you and what isn't.
Quest timelapses, these are an entire quest chain condensed into a smaller video, the idea being to give you an impression of how the questing system changes the zone as well as some storyline overview.
Character creation on a per race basis.
PvP where possible, including double-perspective duels, IF it can be done.
World bosses where available.
Mechanics analysis and comparisons to other games
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Awesome. Monday and that following week should be a good one.
 
Wow, this must be a very simplistic game if you can run it on a console. Oh well, at least there is the Secret World.
 
jonneymendoza said:
some bad news. gw2 will come out on consoles as well
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That has not really been confirmed. One dev even said they were exploring the possibility and that they have no definite plans for a console version. Who knows though, if this makes it to console ima fucking hang myself. I'll say it one more time : FUCK CONSOLES
 
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