The Elder Scrolls Online

Climber said:
And?

Is a person not allowed to change their mind when a product is altered? ESO is fundamentally changing their product shortly before launch and when asked about it, they say to go f off, we're doing it our own game vision now that doesn't conform to what we originally stated.
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Thanks for saving me writing a post. QFT.
 
I didn't expect the game to have a long life. However, I didn't expect changes like this right before launch. I respect you GT for voting with your wallet.
 
Stiler said:
I for one am glad they are cracking down on the add ons.

Don't get me wrong, I support add ons that give you info your own characters, rearrange your health bars, change the cosmetic look, a damage log, etc.

However I HATED how there were already mods out there (IE the Tamriel Foundry combat mod) that showed your enemies health/mana/stamina, casting bars, their buffs, allt his info that you should NOT know or have access to, tha'ts paramount to cheating imo
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MMO players want that stuff though.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Sigh... here's my writeup about:

the major changes for the worse coming announced on the Psijic forums, and some already in-game

So they've basically announced they're removing UI addons for basics like seeing your health and mana amounts numerically, custom target plates, and pretty much everything, on their Psijic boards and then locked the thread of people arguing against the decision. Their statements internally to a guild leader were that they aren't targeting an MMO or ES audience but rather intend to make their own game vision. (Beats me what the hell they think they're targeting then with an MMORPG with an Elder Scrolls skin).

They also have in the latest patch (0.181) made anything but linear questing through the main zone questlines completely unviable for gaining XP or leveling. Grinding mobs with a partner has been nerfed into the ground with a poor XP split; PVP earnings of XP are orders of magnitude (literally) slower than grinding even; and they made exploration XP give virtually nothing too. So there goes any of the non-linearity the game had, too.

Crafting has been nerfed significantly from being some of the most powerful gear in the game to some of the weakest top-level items you can equip. They have taken out any value to it except for making potions, when previously it was a strong game system.

Veteran Rank XP has also been nerfed so that you must do every single quest in the zones in order to even come close (and that isn't enough, believe it or not, to level you fully!) to getting to VR10. Same as normal XP in terms of now having no options. I guess they think people will grind out the rest? You currently will get to around VR6 and if lucky, 7, with the current build, and VR's 8, 9, and 10 take upwards of 9 million XP total to reach (for all 3 combined), while killing a monster gives around 100-200xp as does a player.

My pre-order has been cancelled, and will stay that way. The level of arrogance the developers there are displaying is off the charts, and they have no direction in mind for the game very obviously since they're reacting to blog posts in a knee-jerk manner, ignoring their core tester group and locking threads, barely responding in general over the last couple of months. Even if they fixed things, who's to say it won't just change and be gutted out like so many other things in a short time? Not worth my time, money, or effort anymore. The major issues now far outnumber and overshadow the major aspect that was good, Cyrodiil, and flaw it in some cases such as removing the addons that provided basic combat information for PVP. It's a completely reckless leadership that simply does not deserve my cash, and really anyone else's if you ask me. Go donate to Camelot Unchained if you want RvR. This game won't have it.
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I'm glad I read this, as I have been psyched about the changes they have announced publicly (skip starter islands, NPC collision detection), but all the stuff you listed makes me pissed. This is exactly what SWG did, what Warhammer did, and what other countless MMO's have done. Hopefully I can still cancel my pre-order.

Oh well, I guess this just leaves more time for D3!
 
REgarding crafted gear being the weakest, this makes NO sense....

Paul Sage just said this YESTERDAY,

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.c...ed-by-Paul-Sage-from-Zenimax-with-source.html

"In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivlent or better then dungeon drops?

Most MMO's gear crafting is only good to an extent which gets replaced quickly to the pve enthusiasts.

Will the reward of say Legendary or Epic crafts be a notable difference then a drop anyone can get from a dungeon?"

Paul: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more... armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments. Legendary items do not drop...
 
Stiler said:
REgarding crafted gear being the weakest, this makes NO sense....

Paul Sage just said this YESTERDAY,

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.c...ed-by-Paul-Sage-from-Zenimax-with-source.html

"In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivlent or better then dungeon drops?

Most MMO's gear crafting is only good to an extent which gets replaced quickly to the pve enthusiasts.

Will the reward of say Legendary or Epic crafts be a notable difference then a drop anyone can get from a dungeon?"

Paul: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more... armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments. Legendary items do not drop...
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To me it sounds like the best items in the game will be loot drops that have been upgraded using tempers/etc. by crafters. So, basically, every crafting profession at end game is equivalent to an enchanter...
 
Yeah i just read it quickly then noticed the between the lines, "best Numerically" but NOT the unique enchantments which are only found through drops.

To me this makes it seem like those "unique" enchantments will most likely be the BEST (just going from my experience with other mmo's loot), which means that the best gear will be obtained ONLY through drops, which SUCKS imo.

Why do m mo's always do this? They claim to want to make an open game and allow people to play how THEY want,t hen they "funnel" them into things like this, with EXP nerfed for things other then PVE quests, then gear now being the "Best" from drops rather then crafted (They can improve it, but can't actually craft it).

Would it be that HARD to simple allow ALL? Let loot drops be decent, let crafted gear be decent, don't make one the "best" and instead allow both sides the choice of how they want to make their gear.

You can have "unique" looks only found in one or ht eother, but have the stats and things be even and neither being obviously "better" then the other.
 
Wow, shitty. I was looking forward to maybe trying this game if/when it went F2P but now I am not sure it's even worth my time.
 
Stiler said:
To me this makes it seem like those "unique" enchantments will most likely be the BEST (just going from my experience with other mmo's loot), which means that the best gear will be obtained ONLY through drops, which SUCKS imo.
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That's exactly what they did: numerically they're equal for their very base stat like armor amount or damage, but the unique effects are far more powerful on dropped loot. Your only real uses for crafting are food/potions, and upgrading dropped items (color quality), at endgame now. A legendary (orange) VR10 weapon has the exact same base damage whether it's a purple that was upgraded from a drop, or crafted (and upgraded). The crafting set bonuses are ridiculously poor (in other words, you wouldn't ever use most of them, and the only one I can think of that makes sense to use at all is a fill-in 3 piece for 5% extra crit chance) compared to the drop ones, and the drop ones mostly come from random bags you buy in PVP (with an extremely low drop chance) or open-world mobs randomly (Magicka Furnace is the best one in the game basically right now, 10% of your max magicka back when hit by a melee attack, 5 second internal cooldown).

Crafting went from being able to produce (with some effort) gear arguably superior to some of the drop sets thanks to the customizable traits (which you could then use with the worse set bonuses and still come out with a good piece of gear), to being stuff you wouldn't use at all in your Veteran Ranks (which is where most people will spend the bulk of their playing time because everyone ends up there). For example, pre-nerf they had crafted item traits that could reduce your sprinting costs by 17-22% each at the top end which you could then stack enough to make sprinting just about free, or increase your weapon attack speed (heavy attack times etc, not abilities) by 50-60%, resulting in a large non-resource-intensive DPS potential. Now, the absolute top end weapons get about 8% speed, and the sprint cost reductions are 3-4%. Same thing across the board for all traits.

Whereas before you had a real choice thanks to the strength of traits and the fact that dropped set items only come with one trait type period per set (and some had no trait at all), now you just end up with an item crafted with negligible bonuses and no set bonus/virtually useless set bonus ("Regenerate resources 20% quicker during the daytime" for a 5-piece set is an example, which runs into the softcaps that you'll generally already be at and is a low bonus already in terms of the actual end effect).

And don't get me started on the addon massacre, which was primarily information most MMORPG's put in their base UI such as hitpoint numbers and buff icons as options. Plus as I said they limited the XP you gain by grinding in a duo or higher an extreme amount making it basically unviable, as well as PVP-earned XP, leaving the only reasonably normal way to level being questing along the main quest path (before if you ran off to get side quests and killed stuff along the way, you'd level just as fast if not faster, now you're best off following the rails of the main questlines in zones because otherwise they're spaced out far from eachother) and public dungeons etc. giving very little even on the first completion now (before it was a good chunk of XP each time you finished one for the first time on a character). Vet XP as I mentioned numbers for before... yeah. :(
 
Can you still mod the UI to remove the crosshair? I hate having that thing in the middle of the screen - it's such an eyesore to me.
 
GoldenTiger said:
That's exactly what they did: numerically they're equal for their very base stat like armor amount or damage, but the unique effects are far more powerful on dropped loot. Your only real uses for crafting are food/potions, and upgrading dropped items (color quality), at endgame now. A legendary (orange) VR10 weapon has the exact same base damage whether it's a purple that was upgraded from a drop, or crafted (and upgraded). The crafting set bonuses are ridiculously poor (in other words, you wouldn't ever use most of them, and the only one I can think of that makes sense to use at all is a fill-in 3 piece for 5% extra crit chance) compared to the drop ones, and the drop ones mostly come from random bags you buy in PVP (with an extremely low drop chance) or open-world mobs randomly (Magicka Furnace is the best one in the game basically right now, 10% of your max magicka back when hit by a melee attack, 5 second internal cooldown).

Crafting went from being able to produce (with some effort) gear arguably superior to some of the drop sets thanks to the customizable traits (which you could then use with the worse set bonuses and still come out with a good piece of gear), to being stuff you wouldn't use at all in your Veteran Ranks (which is where most people will spend the bulk of their playing time because everyone ends up there). For example, pre-nerf they had crafted item traits that could reduce your sprinting costs by 17-22% each at the top end which you could then stack enough to make sprinting just about free, or increase your weapon attack speed (heavy attack times etc, not abilities) by 50-60%, resulting in a large non-resource-intensive DPS potential. Now, the absolute top end weapons get about 8% speed, and the sprint cost reductions are 3-4%. Same thing across the board for all traits.

Whereas before you had a real choice thanks to the strength of traits and the fact that dropped set items only come with one trait type period per set (and some had no trait at all), now you just end up with an item crafted with negligible bonuses and no set bonus/virtually useless set bonus ("Regenerate resources 20% quicker during the daytime" for a 5-piece set is an example, which runs into the softcaps that you'll generally already be at and is a low bonus already in terms of the actual end effect).

And don't get me started on the addon massacre, which was primarily information most MMORPG's put in their base UI such as hitpoint numbers and buff icons as options. Plus as I said they limited the XP you gain by grinding in a duo or higher an extreme amount making it basically unviable, as well as PVP-earned XP, leaving the only reasonably normal way to level being questing along the main quest path (before if you ran off to get side quests and killed stuff along the way, you'd level just as fast if not faster, now you're best off following the rails of the main questlines in zones because otherwise they're spaced out far from eachother) and public dungeons etc. giving very little even on the first completion now (before it was a good chunk of XP each time you finished one for the first time on a character). Vet XP as I mentioned numbers for before... yeah. :(
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I'm seriously considering dropping my pre order now, sigh.

These kinds of things were EXACTLY why I was looking forward to TES:O vs other mmo's out there, it seemed to be more open and FINALLY a game where crafters didn't get shit on from the PVE focused crowd.

Then not even a month before release and they completely and utterly change it to be more of the "same old same old" crap we've had time and time again.

I'd really like to talk to whoever decided to do this massive changes.

I hope on the PTS boards people are bringing this up to a fever pitch and maybe they will understand that no one wanted this.
 
I can respect the success or failure of an MMO if they actually try to stand apart from the crowd. I didn't care for ESO much, but to see them changing the few areas that set them apart to a more mainstream design makes me sad as a gamer. How many more times do garage indie devs have to create magic and unique games before our big studios grow a pair. I wonder if EQN is going to pull this same shit.
 
Stiler said:
Why do m mo's always do this? They claim to want to make an open game and allow people to play how THEY want,t hen they "funnel" them into things like this, with EXP nerfed for things other then PVE quests, then gear now being the "Best" from drops rather then crafted (They can improve it, but can't actually craft it).
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Because they want you to have to grind the fuck out of everything, and keep paying that monthly sub as long as possible. Makes sense business-wise but as a gamer it's a joke.
 
MavericK96 said:
Because they want you to have to grind the fuck out of everything, and keep paying that monthly sub as long as possible. Makes sense business-wise but as a gamer it's a joke.
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The thing is, if you let people play how they want and actually ENJOY the game they'll likely stay around longer.

However if you force them into a playstyle they don't want (IE PVP players forced to PVE, crafters nerfed and have to focus on improving dropped items instead of creating their own) these people will leave very quickly.

There's a reason why WoW style games almost always fail, people are tire of that shit or they will just go back to WoW because your game can not compete with WoW and it's gigantic budget and years and years of work they have on top of hte vanilla game.
 
When is it not supposed to be a grindfest? If there wasn't a grind then everyone would be leet. MMOs are for kids with too much time. :D


*runs away from the anger* :eek:
 
For the first couple of beta weekends, I played without any mods. The barebones, information-free UI is terrible for an MMO, especially when trying to test things.

Is this fire enchant on weapons affecting my staff damage? How is crouching affecting my DPS? Does item bonus X affect skill Y? Is my 20-second buff still up? Did my debuff work on the target, or is it immune? Am I hitting anyone with this flaming oil? How much damage is it doing?

In the default UI you can't tell any of that. It is completely useless for playing an MMO. If this wants to be a RvR game, how about taking a page from Daoc and at least giving the most basic damage numbers and buff states.

Last beta weekend, I installed that Foundry mod that shows everything, and it was great. Numbers. Just what I expect from an MMO. It'll be a damn shame is they are taking all of that away.
 
I have another question....

I reach level 13 and the game was really easy. Is this common for MMOs? Not that Skyrim or Oblivion are particularly hard but they're moderately challenging at times. ESO just seemed so freakin' easy....

What's up with that?
 
Ritorix said:
For the first couple of beta weekends, I played without any mods. The barebones, information-free UI is terrible for an MMO, especially when trying to test things.

Is this fire enchant on weapons affecting my staff damage? How is crouching affecting my DPS? Does item bonus X affect skill Y? Is my 20-second buff still up? Did my debuff work on the target, or is it immune? Am I hitting anyone with this flaming oil? How much damage is it doing?

In the default UI you can't tell any of that. It is completely useless for playing an MMO. If this wants to be a RvR game, how about taking a page from Daoc and at least giving the most basic damage numbers and buff states.

Last beta weekend, I installed that Foundry mod that shows everything, and it was great. Numbers. Just what I expect from an MMO. It'll be a damn shame is they are taking all of that away.
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ON the flip side of this do you understand why some people don't want them to allow free reign on add ons?

The Tamriel Foundry Combat add on gave you a ton of info not only on yourself, but your enemies.

You could see other players health, magicka, stamina, cast bars, buffs, etc. This gives you an undeniable advantage in pvp and will force every single person who wants to be competitive to use said add ons, which goes against what they said int he past about wanting players to focus on the actual game and not the UI elements like in other mmo's.

Don't get me wrong, when it comes to your own player characters info I think they should allow people if they want to see things that they should (health numbers, your active buffs, etc) but they were going way too far in allowing oyu to see that info for everyone.
 
Stiler said:
ON the flip side of this do you understand why some people don't want them to allow free reign on add ons?

The Tamriel Foundry Combat add on gave you a ton of info not only on yourself, but your enemies.
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I'm fine with that, not seeing info on your enemy and their actions. I expect basic information on myself. Damage I'm doing, buffs on me, very very basic info available in every RPG. I want everything that foundry mod offered (scrolling combat text, enemy castbar for interrupts, etc) but most of that is a luxury - at the bare minimum I expect some numbers on the screen, somewhere. At least as a toggle-able option alongside their barebones UI.

I was in a pvp fight the other weekend pouring burning oil on people. Couldn't tell what it was doing. Significant damage? No idea. The only clue I had that it was killing anyone at all was the pvp 'free gear' mails rolling in. It made the fight boring and repetitive, clicking the 'pour' button over and over with no feedback.

But hey, they are adding an FOV slider, so maybe 1st person mode wont be so tunnel-visioned now.
 
beta this weekend starts at noon est friday

one kicker for the weekend

"EXPLORE WITH BENEFITS
Test the Imperial race or play as any race in any alliance! For this special beta event only, we're unlocking the benefits of the Imperial Edition and the Explorer's Pack for you to test and enjoy.

nice touch..gotta hand it to them..yes, yes, I know its to try and sell more imperial copies ...nothin wrong with a bit of free marketing

enjoy
 
Couple of new beta keys I got (greenmangaming sent them for anyone that pre ordered, a key for them and a friend).

Since I am already in the beta I need neither, so here they are for anyone that wants to try it out:

6WGRKKC5MHDXPE5TCTW5
6R6LTXXM3W399JWA6LDL

It starts this coming Friday at 12pm noon est.
 
I have two codes for anyone who wants to try out the last beta before release. I'm not going to post them directly so I can know if they are used or not and cross them off my list of codes I was given.
 
Just cancelled my pre-order, still no collision in place. Nothing like having an enemy run right through you and attack from behind...
 
mtbush said:
Just cancelled my pre-order, still no collision in place. Nothing like having an enemy run right through you and attack from behind...
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Really? No! They wouldn't lie to us, would they!?

Developers have also made changes to combat animations and audio and added player collision with NPCs, preventing players from passing through enemies. These changes are meant to create a "more substantial," "more visceral and exciting" combat experience, according to game director Matt Firor.
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http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/14/55...ne-tweaking-game-opening-combat-based-on-beta

*EDIT* I also must add that this has been one of the worst experiences I have had beta testing. We are going to encounter bugs, I understand that - its our job to find them and try to break the game. But the sheer amount of login problems I have read about is insane. I can't tell you how many times I have had to uninstall and reinstall the game just to get into the beta. I am currently re-downloading once more to see if I can get in this final time. Heck, I can't even log into my account even after successfully changing my password a total of 3 times. :confused:
 
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mtbush said:
Just cancelled my pre-order, still no collision in place. Nothing like having an enemy run right through you and attack from behind...
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There is collision on enemy NPC's, however they do not have collision on other real players in pvp (yet).

Mainly because of the lag it can introduce.

Since they literally just added collision detection to npc's like a few weeks ago I think they might test it out and see how it works (performance wise) to see if it can be added to pvp.
 
RX3 said:
But the sheer amount of login problems I have read about is insane. I can't tell you how many times I have had to uninstall and reinstall the game just to get into the beta.:
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I had to right click on properties on the icon, and click the box to run as administrator to allow me to log into this beta...ymmv

on a side note, I've lost all interest in this game and I can't even tell you why..its as if last beta was enjoyable but this one sucked the living essence out of my desire to play

crazy..i'll chalk it up to mmo burnout

NEXT!
 
After another weekend of beta I did still have quite a few bugs (quest bugs are the worst). I haven't made my decision on canceling my pre-order yet.

I did like the NPC collision that they added.
 
This seems to have lost a ton of followers. Can't say I didn't see that coming.

Countdown until Skyrim Co-Op starts now?
 
Pringle said:
This seems to have lost a ton of followers. Can't say I didn't see that coming.

Countdown until Skyrim Co-Op starts now?
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I have a feeling bethesda is going to disappoint everyone and not include co-op in their next elder scrolls.

People have been voicing that desire FOREVER, and they don't make as much as a peep about it.
 
Pringle said:
This seems to have lost a ton of followers. Can't say I didn't see that coming.

Countdown until Skyrim Co-Op starts now?
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chockomonkey said:
I have a feeling bethesda is going to disappoint everyone and not include co-op in their next elder scrolls.

People have been voicing that desire FOREVER, and they don't make as much as a peep about it.
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I don't want an MMO, I want co-op. :(
 
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