Official NVIDIA Ampere In-Stock Thread

exlink

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Where have you been? That’s not a knock but a serious question lol. RDNA 2 is built from ground up. RDNA is not RDNA2. Your statement is only true for RDNA. There has been so much on it. Did you miss it? Just look at Xbox around 170-180w for the GPU and matching 2080super.
Something to keep in mind is I believe that the performance comparison takes console optimization into consideration when they say that the XSX GPU performs roughly equivalent to a 2080 Super’s performance. I think it was Digital Foundry that made this comparison for Gears 5.
 

NKD

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Something to keep in mind is I believe that the performance comparison takes console optimization into consideration when they say that the XSX GPU performs roughly equivalent to a 2080 Super’s performance. I think it was Digital Foundry that made this comparison for Gears 5.

RDNA had similar IPC to Turing. So it’s not too much to think that RDNA 2 based Xbox would her close to 2080super. I am not going by specifics games I am going but the specs on paper.
 

NKD

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Even so, I don't expect AMD to leapfrog or even match NVIDIA. NVIDIA has been way ahead of AMD for years. I don't see that changing in a single product generation, iterative or not.

It’s just math. If AMD has 80 CU card clocked at 2ghz or above it will compete with 3080. Unless they come out with a card with lower CU count. Then that’s a different story.
 

FrgMstr

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harmattan

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How about this? NVIDIA lowered prices this generation because the 20 series didn't sell worth a shit and it has nothing to do with AMD.

Yes and no. nVidia understands it had a market issue with the 20 series since consumers realized quickly that a) rasterization wasn't significantly better than 10 series, b) RT and DLSS are, and will remain, largely meaningless for the next few gens, c) price was extortionate relative to the former points. At the same time, they want to keep their overall revenue streams trending up. And since they cannot lower manufacturing costs, there's really only one way to keep the line moving upwards: charge more for cards, one way or the other. How do you increase prices when "MSRP" (note the quotes) is actually lower than prior gen? ...smoke and mirrors.

First, as postulated by many folks in the know and familiar with pricing strategy, "MSRP" has no tangible meaning in this launch apart from drumming up interest. In a sense, MSRP models of the 30xxs are the "LS" car SKU that gets folks in the door. No one buys the LS car because there are none on the lot, and the few that dealers received in the first delivery went to friends and family. The MSRP cards are needles in a haystack, only available on release, never to be seen again. But they get people to the dealer where they then buy more expensive models. Looking back to the Ampere reveal, you could almost see the wink in Jensen's eye when he said "$699".

Second, artificial supply limitation. We're all familiar with this and the integral concept of supply and demand. People want a goat, no goats available, goat prices go up -- a tale as old as time. The counterpoint to this dynamic is, if retail/street prices rise too far, no one buys and there's excess supply. But there's another pull affecting pricing dynamics: conditioned price expectation. When the base street price i.e. the price you can actually acquire a 3080, stays at $850 for months and months, that's the price people are conditioned to accept. And while adjusting price expectations takes time, it's a powerful way to increase price on product. nV knows this, and it's partially why they are actually working with AIBs to control (not stop) scalpers acquiring cards to vastly appreciating prices. In effect, they want street price to go up (but not too far up).

nV is playing the long game here, and it's a game of 4D chess. They're still employing their tried-and-true tactics of atomic market segmentation, "special" editions, price renovations, but they're now pulling the above levers. All of this moves us in one direction on prices: upwards.

Edit: On a related note, consumers need to start qualifying exactly what is meant by "price", not just in this situation but any. Nvidia is relying on you assuming "price" will equate directly to what they list (fallaciously) as MSRP. Price and MSRP does not equate by design, as I've explained above. Price should be considered the actual money it takes to buy a card on the street.
 
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Yes and no. nVidia understands it had a market issue with the 20 series since consumers realized quickly that a) rasterization wasn't significantly better than 10 series, b) RT and DLSS are, and will remain, largely meaningless for the next few gens, c) price was extortionate relative to the former points. At the same time, they want to keep their overall revenue streams trending up. And since they cannot lower manufacturing costs, there's really only one way to keep the line moving upwards: charge more for cards, one way or the other. How do you increase prices when "MSRP" (note the quotes) is actually lower than prior gen? ...smoke and mirrors.

First, as postulated by many folks in the know and familiar with pricing strategy, "MSRP" has no tangible meaning in this launch apart from drumming up interest. In a sense, MSRP models of the 30xxs are the "LS" car SKU that gets folks in the door. No one buys the LS car because there are none on the lot, and the few that dealers received in the first delivery went to friends and family. The MSRP cards are needles in a haystack, only available on release, never to be seen again. But they get people to the dealer where they then buy more expensive models. Looking back to the Ampere reveal, you could almost see the wink in Jensen's eye when he said "$699".

Second, artificial supply limitation. We're all familiar with this and the integral concept of supply and demand. People want a goat, no goats available, goat prices go up -- a tale as old as time. The counterpoint to this dynamic is, if retail/street prices rise too far, no one buys and there's excess supply. But there's another pull affecting pricing dynamics: conditioned price expectation. When the base street price i.e. the price you can actually acquire a 3080, stays at $850 for months and months, that's the price people are conditioned to accept. And while adjusting price expectations takes time, it's a powerful way to increase price on product. nV knows this, and it's partially why they are actually working with AIBs to control (not stop) scalpers acquiring cards to vastly appreciating prices. In effect, they want street price to go up (but not too far up).

nV is playing the long game here, and it's a game of 4D chess. They're still employing their tried-and-true tactics of atomic market segmentation, "special" editions, price renovations, but they're now pulling the above levers. All of this moves us in one direction on prices: upwards.

Edit: On a related note, consumers need to start qualifying exactly what is meant by "price", not just in this situation but any. Nvidia is relying on you assuming "price" will equate directly to what they list (fallaciously) as MSRP. Price and MSRP does not equate by design, as I've explained above. Price should be considered the actual money it takes to buy a card on the street.
The situation is pretty grim right now due to 2xxx stock running low and 3xxx being vaporware. Interestingly my 2080 ti is up on ebay by the new owner lol : https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZOTAC-Gaming-GeForce-RTX-2080-Ti-AMP-Graphics-Card-No-Box-READ/383754601261?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=eee276e086b347398147ac48fb42fcb1&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=12&mehot=none&sd=383754601261&itm=383754601261&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=ZOTAC&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:67a8e15c-0887-11eb-8864-466790e0ef5d|parentrq:0298112a1750aad30fd1d62bffec8da4|iid:1

Kudos to him for accurate description though :) I had half a mind to buy it back for 600 from him directly but naahh..gotta wait bro.
 

vegeta535

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You don't generally take an architecture with a huge flaw, and completely reverse that with an iteration or two of it. We've seen that countless times in the past. It doesn't work that way. I've no doubt that Navi has been improved, but I'm very skeptical about it being able to compete with NVIDIA's high end offerings. I'd like to be wrong on that, but I seriously doubt it.
While I believe the same as you. Kyle makes it all questionable with his comments the past few months. He talks like he knows AMD has something big up their sleeve with big Navi.
 

exlink

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I’m guessing the +15% performance over the 2080 Ti for Big Navi still holds water. Places it right in between the 3070 and 3080. If AMD gives it 16GB VRAM and prices it at $600 then it’ll give Nvidia a run for their money. Even at $700 it would be potent if it has higher OC headroom than the 3080 and as a result could match performance.

Would explain why the 3070 launch was delayed. And could also explain why the 3080 has so little OC headroom and why the difference in performance between the 3080 and 3090 is only 10-15%. Nvidia is very likely aware of Big Navi’s performance and increased the 3080’s clocks while reducing price to stay competitive against it. Wouldn’t surprise me if the 3080 was originally 5-10% slower out of the box before Nvidia got a whiff of Big Navi. If Nvidia reacted to AMD by pricing their 3080 at $700 it makes me wonder if Nvidia then doesn’t feel threatened for the performance crown on the 3090 since they’re charging an arm and a leg for it.
 

Dan_D

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While I believe the same as you. Kyle makes it all questionable with his comments the past few months. He talks like he knows AMD has something big up their sleeve with big Navi.

In fairness, I'm certain he knows better than I what Big Navi will bring to the table. He still knows a shit ton of people in the industry. Far more than I do. That one word suggests AMD's Big Navi is going to be better than I think it will be and that's certainly possible. I've never denied that. Of course, AMD doesn't have to be faster than the 3080 to compete with it. It just has to get within 10-15% of it, and it can effect the 3080's pricing. It is certainly possible that NVIDIA is aware of what Big Navi's performance will be and priced accordingly. However, I do not believe that's the only reason why the cards are priced the way they are. NVIDIA damn near doubled its prices on the upper tier 20 series cards and people didn't buy them as much. I think NVIDIA's pricing was lowered at least in part due to that fact.
 

Dan_D

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Yes and no. nVidia understands it had a market issue with the 20 series since consumers realized quickly that a) rasterization wasn't significantly better than 10 series, b) RT and DLSS are, and will remain, largely meaningless for the next few gens, c) price was extortionate relative to the former points. At the same time, they want to keep their overall revenue streams trending up. And since they cannot lower manufacturing costs, there's really only one way to keep the line moving upwards: charge more for cards, one way or the other. How do you increase prices when "MSRP" (note the quotes) is actually lower than prior gen? ...smoke and mirrors.

First, as postulated by many folks in the know and familiar with pricing strategy, "MSRP" has no tangible meaning in this launch apart from drumming up interest. In a sense, MSRP models of the 30xxs are the "LS" car SKU that gets folks in the door. No one buys the LS car because there are none on the lot, and the few that dealers received in the first delivery went to friends and family. The MSRP cards are needles in a haystack, only available on release, never to be seen again. But they get people to the dealer where they then buy more expensive models. Looking back to the Ampere reveal, you could almost see the wink in Jensen's eye when he said "$699".

Second, artificial supply limitation. We're all familiar with this and the integral concept of supply and demand. People want a goat, no goats available, goat prices go up -- a tale as old as time. The counterpoint to this dynamic is, if retail/street prices rise too far, no one buys and there's excess supply. But there's another pull affecting pricing dynamics: conditioned price expectation. When the base street price i.e. the price you can actually acquire a 3080, stays at $850 for months and months, that's the price people are conditioned to accept. And while adjusting price expectations takes time, it's a powerful way to increase price on product. nV knows this, and it's partially why they are actually working with AIBs to control (not stop) scalpers acquiring cards to vastly appreciating prices. In effect, they want street price to go up (but not too far up).

nV is playing the long game here, and it's a game of 4D chess. They're still employing their tried-and-true tactics of atomic market segmentation, "special" editions, price renovations, but they're now pulling the above levers. All of this moves us in one direction on prices: upwards.

Edit: On a related note, consumers need to start qualifying exactly what is meant by "price", not just in this situation but any. Nvidia is relying on you assuming "price" will equate directly to what they list (fallaciously) as MSRP. Price and MSRP does not equate by design, as I've explained above. Price should be considered the actual money it takes to buy a card on the street.

I didn't want to give any of this tinfoil hat BS any credence. As I disagree with a lot of it. However, there may be a grain of truth to it based on the MSI story below. While MSRP is fixed, there is nothing that says retailers have to sell product at that price. Although, there are cases where some type of MAP is in place limiting what retailers can sell for. You see this in the firearms industry. However, even if companies like MSI are selling cards through a subsidiary at scalpers prices, this should stop once supplies are up. Which we know won't happen until at least early 2021. If they are pulling this, it also tells us that there is likely next to zero margin in these parts.


Oh, MSI what are you doing?
 

Dan_D

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They knew. Only issued a statement because they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

I meant in general. MSI has earned a reputation for all kinds of shady practices as of late. It's weird, because I know a lot of their North American PR guys. I can't imagine any of them doing any of this, but the company's morality as a whole is certainly in question right now. More so than it is for most companies in the business. Bullying reviewers (not me), scalping their own graphics cards, etc.
 

mnewxcv

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I meant in general. MSI has earned a reputation for all kinds of shady practices as of late. It's weird, because I know a lot of their North American PR guys. I can't imagine any of them doing any of this, but the company's morality as a whole is certainly in question right now. More so than it is for most companies in the business. Bullying reviewers (not me), scalping their own graphics cards, etc.
They act like they owe someone money.
 
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Evga has 2080 Ti b stocks for 749 , which in a pre Ampere world would be pretty good...and this is pretty much a pre Ampere world lol.
 

mnewxcv

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Evga has 2080 Ti b stocks for 749 , which in a pre Ampere world would be pretty good...and this is pretty much a pre Ampere world lol.
well, not if the 3070 has any stock to speak of at the end of the month for 66% of the price. Fingers crossed.
 

stamsek

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I bought a new case for my PC along with fans and all that jazz. No longer focused on trying to get this damn card. Especially with the 20GB coming out later. NVIDIA can suck it. They should've been better prepared.
 

piratepress

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I bought a new case for my PC along with fans and all that jazz. No longer focused on trying to get this damn card. Especially with the 20GB coming out later. NVIDIA can suck it. They should've been better prepared.

I feel the same way. I was pumped to get a 3080 and then all this BS sucked the fun out of it.
 

celwin

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I bought a new case for my PC along with fans and all that jazz. No longer focused on trying to get this damn card. Especially with the 20GB coming out later. NVIDIA can suck it. They should've been better prepared.
Yet you will buy the 20GB version and by doing that condoning/rewarding Nvidia behavior. If you really want to send a message, don't buy.
 

stamsek

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Yet you will buy the 20GB version and by doing that condoning/rewarding Nvidia behavior. If you really want to send a message, don't buy.

You're right. I still want the performance. But also gives AMD a chance. This is their big chance to capitalize on nvidia shenangians.
 

nealx01

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im waiting for the 3090 kingpin to come out. if your gonna go big... go all out
 
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Haven't had an AMD card since a 5850 that I flashed to 5870 back in 2011 ...only if I had stuck with bitcoin mining on it for more than a couple of hours back in the day lol. If they have decent ray tracing and stock for 30 mins on a major retailer on launch day, will at least give them a shot. I mean this behavior by Nv and it's AIB partners (esp MSI but excluding EVGA) is down right hostile to their customer base. I think EVGA is more focused on the gaming community since we're their bread and butter still: NV sells directly to big enterprises for ML/AI and the other AIBs have major non-graphics business think ASUS, GBT, MSI etc...
 

Dan_D

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Haven't had an AMD card since a 5850 that I flashed to 5870 back in 2011 ...only if I had stuck with bitcoin mining on it for more than a couple of hours back in the day lol. If they have decent ray tracing and stock for 30 mins on a major retailer on launch day, will at least give them a shot. I mean this behavior by Nv and it's AIB partners (esp MSI but excluding EVGA) is down right hostile to their customer base. I think EVGA is more focused on the gaming community since we're their bread and butter still: NV sells directly to big enterprises for ML/AI and the other AIBs have major non-graphics business think ASUS, GBT, MSI etc...

I'll wait to see how Big Navi performs and how its priced before I'd give them a shot. Ultimately, I'm gunning for a 3090. However, I may give Big Navi a chance since I have plenty of time to wait for NVIDIA's availability to improve. If Big Navi is good enough anyway, I'd gladly go that route instead.

Ultimately, I think this reasoning is why NVIDIA isn't doing anything to artificially limit stock. If they had more stock, plenty more cards would have been sold since there was no direct competition from AMD. Now that availability isn't likely to improve anytime soon, that could push several people into buying AMD's cards. Assuming AMD can deliver a competitive offering.
 

Sycraft

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I'll wait to see how Big Navi performs and how its priced before I'd give them a shot. Ultimately, I'm gunning for a 3090. However, I may give Big Navi a chance since I have plenty of time to wait for NVIDIA's availability to improve. If Big Navi is good enough anyway, I'd gladly go that route instead.

Ultimately, I think this reasoning is why NVIDIA isn't doing anything to artificially limit stock. If they had more stock, plenty more cards would have been sold since there was no direct competition from AMD. Now that availability isn't likely to improve anytime soon, that could push several people into buying AMD's cards. Assuming AMD can deliver a competitive offering.

Not just that, but people can change their minds or spend the money elsewhere. Companies always want to take your money now because they know, from plenty of experience, that what you want now can change easily later. There is no artificial limitation going on, there is simple manufacturing limitations, ion particular the fabrication. There is ONE fab in the whole world that can make these chips, and nVidia is not the only customer. They can't "just build more". Nor could Samsung just build another 8nm fab if they wanted to. Fabs take billions of dollars (around $10 billion these days) and many years to make. Their next gen fab is not only already being built now, it has been for some time.

There is just only so much you can make of certain things, and not an easy way to ramp production up.

That aside, even if they CAN ramp production, that takes a long time. Suppose that Samsung is willing to sell them more wafers. Then suppose they ordered more on the first day they launched the 3080s and saw shortages. It is going to be around 8 week from then before Samsung is delivering them more chips. That's just how long it takes to fab something on one of these complex processes. Of course that is only the first step, once they have the wafer done it still has to be cut, tested and packed in to chips, then those have to be assembled on to boards, which have to be tested, boxed, and shipped. So even supposing nVidia was able to, say, triple production (which there is no way they could) on September 18th after seeing the massive demand, you wouldn't see that surge in production hit shipping products for a numbers of months at best. Production pipelines are long. A change at the front of it now doesn't affect retail for 3-6 months.
 

Epos7

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There is no artificial limitation going on, there is simple manufacturing limitations, ion particular the fabrication.
This all makes far too much sense. Certainly more than the theory that Nvidia is limiting supply out of the blackness of their heart.

Purely conjecture, but I suspect we don't see the 20GB variants until the second half of 2021. I think they'll be part of the 30XX 'Super' lineup. Unless of course AMD actually produces a good graphics card, but I'm not holding my breath on that.
 

mnewxcv

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This all makes far too much sense. Certainly more than the theory that Nvidia is limiting supply out of the blackness of their heart.

Purely conjecture, but I suspect we don't see the 20GB variants until the second half of 2021. I think they'll be part of the 30XX 'Super' lineup. Unless of course AMD actually produces a good graphics card, but I'm not holding my breath on that.
the only reason for not seeing 20gb variants will be if micron can't keep up with gddr6x production IMO. Nvidia is going to want to get them out in the wild so they are selling more expensive cards. A 3090 is out of the budget of many, but a 3080 20gb might be priced just well enough that people can swing it in the absence of cheaper cards. And then there is the crowd that wants more than 10gb of vram but can't justify $1500 even if they have it.
 

odditory

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the only reason for not seeing 20gb variants will be if micron can't keep up with gddr6x production IMO. Nvidia is going to want to get them out in the wild so they are selling more expensive cards.
Not sure how you came to this conclusion, but the opposite is true - more expensive to produce, but not more profitable. Reselling a higher quantity of expensive GDDR6x modules per card isn't where Nvidia makes their margin.
 

mnewxcv

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Not sure how you came to this conclusion, but the opposite is true - more expensive to produce, but not more profitable. Reselling a higher quantity of expensive GDDR6x modules per card isn't where Nvidia makes their margin.
do you think nvidia has a bigger margin on the 3090s or the 3080s? I just assumed the 3090 being over twice as much would be a bigger margin.
 

Epos7

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the only reason for not seeing 20gb variants will be if micron can't keep up with gddr6x production IMO. Nvidia is going to want to get them out in the wild so they are selling more expensive cards. A 3090 is out of the budget of many, but a 3080 20gb might be priced just well enough that people can swing it in the absence of cheaper cards. And then there is the crowd that wants more than 10gb of vram but can't justify $1500 even if they have it.
GDDR6X shortages are already being reported. We also don't know how much it costs. I believe GDDR6 cost NVidia about $12/GB, and GDDR6X is more expensive (we don't know exactly how much). Say it's $15/GB, so that extra 10GB costs NVidia $150. Do the extra sales and profit from a ~$1000 20GB variant outweigh the current demand for the 10GB card? It doesn't seem likely any time soon. I don't think they have a reason to release the 20GB variant until demand for the 10GB card starts lagging.
 

mnewxcv

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GDDR6X shortages are already being reported. We also don't know how much it costs. I believe GDDR6 cost NVidia about $12/GB, and GDDR6X is more expensive (we don't know exactly how much). Say it's $15/GB, so that extra 10GB costs NVidia $150. Do the extra sales and profit from a ~$1000 20GB variant outweigh the current demand for the 10GB card? It doesn't seem likely any time soon. I don't think they have a reason to release the 20GB variant until demand for the 10GB card starts lagging.
on that front, maybe the 3070 and 3060 cards wont be plagued with such shortages, for they lack gddr6x.
 
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odditory

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do you think nvidia has a bigger margin on the 3090s or the 3080s? I just assumed the 3090 being over twice as much would be a bigger margin.
3090 vs 3080 isn't merely a difference of memory size, but ultimately not relevant since my response was to your presumption that Nvidia wants 20GB 3080's on the market because they'd be more expensive and that would help them (somehow). It was unclear how you came to the conclusion.

Again, Nvidia isn't in the memory business, and they're having to resell that part of the BOM, so there wouldn't be much juice for them in the price difference between a 10GB 3080 and hypothetical 20GB 3080. Likewise on the 3090, the 24GB memory also isn't where they're making their margin.

From a profit standpoint, they're best off with as expensive a GPU combined wit as little memory as they can get away with (that the market will support). As I've been saying, 10GB is the new 11GB.
 
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aldamon

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My 3080FE arrived today. I'm not usually impressed with packaging but it's really nice. Game code activated fine. GLTA. Now for Zen 3 to get off x99.
 

MavericK

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I am hoping these EVGA queues come through. I put in mine at 8:42 AM on 9/17, hopefully will see some movement within the next week or two on that front.
 

BassTek

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I am hoping these EVGA queues come through. I put in mine at 8:42 AM on 9/17, hopefully will see some movement within the next week or two on that front.

Apparently I only queued the XC3, all mine were submitted on the 16th and no emails. Must only be re-stocking FTW3 at this time.
 
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