NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Boil

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I just did a cooling rebuild on my M1 system.
...NZXT X52...
...reversing the flow of the CPU fans (Noctua Sterrox 12x25s). I now have them as an exhaust.
I also swapped the thin Noctua 12x15 120s on the bottom of the case for Noiseblockers I had from my previous build. GPU airflow improved, but increased the turbulance noise at the bottom of the case. However, I'll take the turbulence over the vibration noise of Noctua thin fans.
So, I am guess the bottom fans are set to intake, or...?
 

Boil

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A new ultimate SFF motherboard contender...?

View attachment 163574
You are going to need at least the Ncase for this. DTX size and with the height of that daughter board not going to fit in many SFF cases.
Imagine the Crosshair VIII Impact with a 240 AIO & a Navi version of this (a version which would actually fit in the M1, of course); maybe Necere is actually from the future & really designed the NCASE M1 for the ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Impact...!?!
Mini-DTX support was always one of my reasons for including three expansion slots - I talked about them early in this thread and I test fit a mini-DTX board in the first prototype. I had hoped it would catch on at some point as an intermediary step between mATX and mini-ITX that would be largely compatible with cases for the latter, but what I kept hearing from users and manufacturers alike was that it was a "dead format," and that there was no point in making them. Nice to finally see some action on that front.
Necere - So it seems the SO-DIMM.2 module on the M-DTX Impact board is 82mm tall (from the motherboard PCB surface)...

What is the maximum clearance for a radiator/fans stack on the side bracket then...? I am guessing about 50mm...?
 

teo

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Necere - So it seems the SO-DIMM.2 module on the M-DTX Impact board is 82mm tall (from the motherboard PCB surface)...

What is the maximum clearance for a radiator/fans stack on the side bracket then...? I am guessing about 50mm...?
It’s 130mm clearance to the bracket for a cpu cooler, less 25mm fans and 30mm rad leaves 75mm. Slim fans would leave you ~85mm
 

rfarmer

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Necere - So it seems the SO-DIMM.2 module on the M-DTX Impact board is 82mm tall (from the motherboard PCB surface)...

What is the maximum clearance for a radiator/fans stack on the side bracket then...? I am guessing about 50mm...?
It’s 130mm clearance to the bracket for a cpu cooler, less 25mm fans and 30mm rad leaves 75mm. Slim fans would leave you ~85mm
I was really hoping it was less than 75mm so you would have clearance for radiator + fan.
 

Boil

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It’s 130mm clearance to the bracket for a cpu cooler, less 25mm fans and 30mm rad leaves 75mm. Slim fans would leave you ~85mm
But that 130mm is measured from the top of the CPU itself, yeah...?

So the clearance from the top of the motherboard PCB surface to the side bracket should be about 135mm or so...?

Maybe a 55mm thick AIO stack would JUST fit, possibly within a millimeter +/- of the SO-DIMM.2 module...?
 

Necere

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But that 130mm is measured from the top of the CPU itself, yeah...?

So the clearance from the top of the motherboard PCB surface to the side bracket should be about 135mm or so...?
Yeah, the CPU socket is about 8mm tall. Overall clearance from the motherboard PCB to the side bracket is ~139mm.
 
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Necere

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Well, there's a chance: there's about 20-25mm between the GPU and the radiator (27-34mm with the fan bracket in the upper position), and judging by the pics it's possible the daughterboard will fit right into that gap.
 
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Boil

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Well, there's a chance: there's about 20-25mm between the GPU and the radiator (27-34mm with the fan bracket in the upper position), and judging by the pics it's possible the daughterboard will fit right into that gap.
I did not even think of that particular gap...!

Good to know, thanks...!
 

Alakan

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I'm honestly torn between this new DTX impact interfering with my other dream components, but it just seems so compelling still.

Probably can't fit the Dark Rock TF for the CPU, a GPU with a backplate, aftermarket heatsink and bottom mounted noctua fans.

I could just not put the daughterboard in, but that means no m.2

Kinda wish asus didn't go crazy with the dual m.2 and just kept the design of the old impact which had the sound card and one m.2 on a much smaller daughterboard that didn't interfere with other components.
 
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rfarmer

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I'm honestly torn between this new DTX impact interfering with my other dream components, but it just seems so compelling still.
I totally agree. I have been planning an AMD build and I am seriously considering moving my gaming rig back to my M1 just so I can use this motherboard.
 

Blindphleb

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I'm honestly torn between this new DTX impact interfering with my other dream components, but it just seems so compelling still.

Probably can't fit the Dark Rock TF for the CPU, a GPU with a backplate, aftermarket heatsink and bottom mounted noctua fans.

I could just not put the daughterboard in, but that means no m.2

Kinda wish asus didn't go crazy with the dual m.2 and just kept the design of the old impact which had the sound card and one m.2 on a much smaller daughterboard that didn't interfere with other components.
I don't think the last impact board even had m.2. It had a daughter board for sound and one for vrm. Maybe you were thinking about the last strix board, and if so, Asus has one of those for the new chipset too.
 

Smitty2k1

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I don't think the last impact board even had m.2. It had a daughter board for sound and one for vrm. Maybe you were thinking about the last strix board, and if so, Asus has one of those for the new chipset too.
The Intel compatible Impact boards all had M.2, well at least my Impact VI with i7-4770k has one.
 
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Has anyone thought about using the Alphacool Eisbaer Solo in the NCase M1? It combines a CPU block, pump, and a reservoir into a single large CPU block, so you can do a custom loop without a separate pump/res. Would love to see a build with it.
 

Neapolitan6th

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I don't know if this is news, but there are now affordable 32GB DDR4 sticks from Samsung:

Samsung DDR4-2666 32GB/2Gx8 CL19 Desktop Memory

No fancy heatspreaders and it's only 2666 MHz, but this is a single stick of 32GB non-ECC unbuffered desktop memory, only $165. It's now possible to have 64GB RAM in almost any recent ITX board. (of course check if your board supports it)
That's actually really good news. Should be a good sign that we'll see some more enthusiast kits releasing before long.
 

IdiotInCharge

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and it's only 2666 MHz
...and it's CAS19...

Nice to see the capacity jump, it's just pretty far off from what an 'enthusiast' would want; generally speaking, systems with the cores to really make use of so much RAM would also benefit from faster RAM.
 

Boil

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Looking for that 64GB kit (2@32GB DIMMs, 3600MT/s, CAS16) of G.Skill Trident Z Neo DDR4 RAM...?
 

DoubleTap

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Anyone interested in a spare ncase. Pretty bare bones but I'm trying to gauge interest.
Are you selling one?

I've been interested in one for a few years and never got around to getting one. Kind of bummed to see the optical drive version discontinued as I have a slot blu-ray drive just sitting around....

I couldn't find anything definitive on V6
 

AG1M

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Asrock had 32gb crucial sticks at computex. Heard they're supposed to be out sometime this year. Also 2666 and cl19

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14448/crucial-32-gb-udimms-asrock
In general nice, more RAM is always great, but on a (very good) two DIMM slot ITX board the RAM speed will be very limited. Short example with an ASRock Z370 ITX and very good binned Samsung B-Die memory:

With 2x8 GB I can easily OC my RAM to DDR4-4500 CL18 stable, booting up to DDR4-4700 no problem
With 2x16 GB I have a very good IMC with my CPU, but still a "wall" at DDR-3733 CL16 (with the best board for RAM OC - Maximus XI Gene - using the same RAM @ 2x16 GB DDR4-4133 CL17 was possible)
So with 2x32 GB anything around ~ DDR4-3000-3200 will be tough if this scales like that before with 2x8 GB vs 2x16 GB.
 

AG1M

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Sweet great information, it seems the 32 GB moduels scales almost like 16 GB modules, 64 GB on ITX with decent speed / timings no dream anymore, now I need to get rid of these 2x16 GB kit and get this 2x32 GB kit instead. :angelic:
 

xSDMx

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So I am finally back with some more testing. This time bottom exhaust vs bottom intake. I didn't have an Accelero GPU cooler to test with, but rather just used the stock cooler and took the shroud and fans off.

The interesting part is, that in therory it should yield lower CPU/mobo temps with the cost being higher GPU temps. But I could not provide such evidence with this setup.

The GPU connected fans was working harder in exhaust and still the GPU temps was higher (delta) but the CPU temps were not lower. So it seems it was only a trade off - no gain. My theory now lies with the fact I am using a AIO cooler and that it does not gain any of the heat from within the system as the airway is blocked off from the inside (ie it does not use the internal air as a cooling device), so only outside air is used to cool the CPU. And as such it does not yield lower temps for the CPU if the GPU is exhausting into the case or outside.

My data is to find here as always. Its the bottom data sheet and test #3, #4 and #5 that I am speeking about here.
Given these findings, I'm thinking about trying the following setup:
  • Corsair h100i Pro w/ 2xA12x25 as intake.
  • Morpheus II w/ 2xA12x15 as intake.
  • A9x14 as chassis exhaust.
Am I shooting myself in the foot here? I'm currently running with the Morpheus II in exhaust configuration (per recommendations) and it's OK. I'm having to hit 1800 RPM when gaming which matches closely to the higher RPM speeds that u/SmootyPoody observed. These findings are making me think that the bottom exhaust is only critical if you have a heatsink intaking hot air inside the chassis.
 
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Just noticed that the $999 EVGA 2080 Ti is in stock. I still think it's overpriced, but if anyone is looking, this is the best deal you'll get.
 

Boil

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Given these findings, I'm thinking about trying the following setup:
  • Corsair h100i Pro w/ 2xA12x25 as intake.
  • Morpheus II w/ 2xA12x15 as intake.
  • A9x14 as chassis exhaust.
Am I shooting myself in the foot here? I'm currently running with the Morpheus II in exhaust configuration (per recommendations) and it's OK. I'm having to hit 1800 RPM when gaming which matches closely to the higher RPM speeds that u/SmootyPoody observed. These findings are making me think that the bottom exhaust is only critical if you have a heatsink intaking hot air inside the chassis.
You DO have a heat sink intaking hot air inside the chassis, it is just shaped like a water cooling radiator...

If you want to add the 92mm fan, then try it as intake...?
 

xSDMx

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You DO have a heat sink intaking hot air inside the chassis, it is just shaped like a water cooling radiator...

If you want to add the 92mm fan, then try it as intake...?
I tested aio + exhaust vs. intake GPU. The difference is IMHO negligible:

I think it's more of an issue if you're running a cpu heatsink that pulls air directly from the inside of the chassis. My aio radiator pulls cool air directly from the side vents.

That said, there are some non-thermal pros/cons:
  • With exhaust + a big gpu, you're dumping a lot of heat onto your desk. I, personally, didn't like having a hand warmer, nor did I feel comfortable dumping so much hot air onto my laminate desk.
  • The sound signature, IMHO, is better with exhaust vs. intake. With intake, there is definitely a droning sound that I believe is likely due to turbulence.
Hope that's useful for folks!
 
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I tested aio + exhaust vs. intake GPU. The difference is IMHO negligible:

I think it's more of an issue if you're running a cpu heatsink that pulls air directly from the inside of the chassis. My aio radiator pulls cool air directly from the side vents.

That said, there are some non-thermal pros/cons:
  • With exhaust + a big gpu, you're dumping a lot of heat onto your desk. I, personally, didn't like having a hand warmer, nor did I feel comfortable dumping so much hot air onto my laminate desk.
  • The sound signature, IMHO, is better with exhaust vs. intake. With intake, there is definitely a droning sound that I believe is likely due to turbulence.
Hope that's useful for folks!
I found something similare with the H100 Platinum. Because the AIO intakes cold air direct from the outside it does not really matter to the CPU temp if the GPU is exhausting or intaking. One could say that the CPU cooling is isolated from any outside heating (aside from ambient). But I did have cooler temps on the GPU when the GPU was intaking fresh air rather than using the air from within the case. I had 3c difference higher temps + 300rpm more on the exhausting setup (using air from within the case).

Here represented with test #4 vs #5 in the bottom of the sheet.

 
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Im currently thinking about getting the Arctic Accelero GPU cooler for my build. Currently under load (only tested on DOOM so far) my GPU reaches a max temp of 74 degrees . The GPU I've got is the Gigabyte RTX 2080 Windforce and I actually managed to place two Thermalright TY147's below the GPU. Haven't tested the GPU without the two bottom fans as intake, but will do that soon. Not sure if the extra airflow from two fans or more air/room for the GPU hitsink + fan will have better temps.

Which version of the Arctic Accelero cooler do I need. Quite sure that the Windforce model is using the default PCB?

Some specs:
Asus B450 I gaming strix
Ryzen 2700 (now with stock cooler, still need to mount the Noctua C12P + 150mm noctua fan)
Gigabyte RTX 2080 Windforce

Going to install exhaust 92 mm fan and intake or exhaust (not sure yet) 120 mm fan on the side.

Image of the build without the side and top panels (sorry for potato quality and build is still quite messy):

 

Attachments

Nanook

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Im currently thinking about getting the Arctic Accelero GPU cooler for my build. Currently under load (only tested on DOOM so far) my GPU reaches a max temp of 74 degrees . The GPU I've got is the Gigabyte RTX 2080 Windforce and I actually managed to place two Thermalright TY147's below the GPU. Haven't tested the GPU without the two bottom fans as intake, but will do that soon. Not sure if the extra airflow from two fans or more air/room for the GPU hitsink + fan will have better temps.

Which version of the Arctic Accelero cooler do I need. Quite sure that the Windforce model is using the default PCB?

Some specs:
Asus B450 I gaming strix
Ryzen 2700 (now with stock cooler, still need to mount the Noctua C12P + 150mm noctua fan)
Gigabyte RTX 2080 Windforce

Going to install exhaust 92 mm fan and intake or exhaust (not sure yet) 120 mm fan on the side.

Image of the build without the side and top panels (sorry for potato quality and build is still quite messy):

Wow, do you have a Noctua C12P?! That’s awesome if you do :). I’ve never seen one as it’s been discontinued before I started getting back into pc building 4-5 years ago.

To answer your question, the Arctic Accelero III is the one you’d want to mount on your 2080. I’m not 100% sure if the Windforce PCB is reference. I had the Accelero III on my 2080FE, and some of the Accelero heat pipes interferes with the vram mini heatsinks. They’re not needed as long as there’s airflow.

Also the two bottom 25mm x 120mm fans should be set up exhaust for best overall cooling.
 

Boil

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Im currently thinking about getting the Arctic Accelero GPU cooler for my build.

Going to install exhaust 92 mm fan and intake or exhaust (not sure yet) 120 mm fan on the side.
...the Arctic Accelero III is the one you’d want to mount on your 2080. I’m not 100% sure if the Windforce PCB is reference. I had the Accelero III on my 2080FE, and some of the Accelero heat pipes interferes with the vram mini heatsinks. They’re not needed as long as there’s airflow.

Also the two bottom 25mm x 120mm fans should be set up exhaust for best overall cooling.
I would have 120mmx25mm as intake on the front of the side bracket & 92mmx25mm on the rear as exhaust, and (with the Accelero) two 120mmx25mm fans as exhaust...

Also, use Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM fans for the three 120mm fans, and a Noctua NF-A9 PWM fan for the rear exhaust (black versions of the A9 should be available in October & black versions of the 12x25s should be available sometime 1H2020, use coffee & cream until then)...

For the two fans exhausting on the bottom, use as Gelid VGA adapter & a Y-splitter attached to the fan connector on the gpu pcb...
 
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Wow, do you have a Noctua C12P?! That’s awesome if you do :). I’ve never seen one as it’s been discontinued before I started getting back into pc building 4-5 years ago.

To answer your question, the Arctic Accelero III is the one you’d want to mount on your 2080. I’m not 100% sure if the Windforce PCB is reference. I had the Accelero III on my 2080FE, and some of the Accelero heat pipes interferes with the vram mini heatsinks. They’re not needed as long as there’s airflow.

Also the two bottom 25mm x 120mm fans should be set up exhaust for best overall cooling.
Isn't cooling the VRAM's quite important? The whole issue with previous gen there were all those EVGA gpu's which had bad cooling on the VRAM which caused all of em to go dead. But the the #3 is the one to go for?

I would have 120mmx25mm as intake on the front of the side bracket & 92mmx25mm on the rear as exhaust, and (with the Accelero) two 120mmx25mm fans as exhaust...

Also, use Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM fans for the three 120mm fans, and a Noctua NF-A9 PWM fan for the rear exhaust (black versions of the A9 should be available in October & black versions of the 12x25s should be available sometime 1H2020, use coffee & cream until then)...

For the two fans exhausting on the bottom, use as Gelid VGA adapter & a Y-splitter attached to the fan connector on the gpu pcb...
I can't live with the brown noctua's! Setup I have planned is a 150mm Noctua NF-A15 for CPU cooler (topdown Noctua C12P), 120mm Noiseblocker BlackSilentPro PL2 as intake on the side, 92mm Noiseblocker BlackSilentPro PE-1 as exhaust of the case and two 140mm Thermalright TY147's (in combination with the Arctic Accelero). Would two 120mm fans at the bottom be more sufficient than two 140mm TY147's?
 

Nanook

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Isn't cooling the VRAM's quite important? The whole issue with previous gen there were all those EVGA gpu's which had bad cooling on the VRAM which caused all of em to go dead. But the the #3 is the one to go for??
The III is the one that comes with all the small VRM / Vram heatsinks. The IV comes with a giant passive heatsink backplate that won't fit with most air coolers in the M1. In regards to the EVGA failed ACX line, they had problems with VRM overheating, the Vram doesn't get as hot as the VRM.
 

Boil

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I can't live with the brown noctua's! Setup I have planned is a 150mm Noctua NF-A15 for CPU cooler (topdown Noctua C12P), 120mm Noiseblocker BlackSilentPro PL2 as intake on the side, 92mm Noiseblocker BlackSilentPro PE-1 as exhaust of the case and two 140mm Thermalright TY147's (in combination with the Arctic Accelero). Would two 120mm fans at the bottom be more sufficient than two 140mm TY147's?
The 140s might not fit, but a pair of 120s will...?

I also am in the Coffee & Cream VS. Black camp...
I have purchased a 'poop brown' NF-A9 PWM fan for my rear exhaust (Cerberus chassis), it will be replaced with a black version in October...
I have two NF-S12A PWM fans I will use until the black 12x25s come out, and I will use the stock fans on my Fractal Design Celsius S24 AIO unitl I can replace those with a pair of 12x25s...

The sacrifices we make for quite cooling...!?!

From the Noctua website:

In the chromax line, Noctua showed all-black versions of the NH-D15, NH-U12S and NH-L9i as well as black versions of the NF-A20, NF-A9, NF-A9x14 and NF-A8 fans, all of which are scheduled for release in Q4 2019. The black versions of the NF-A12x25 and NF-A12x15 that were on display are on the roadmap for the first half of 2020. In addition to its black chromax line fans, Noctua displayed white variants of the NF-A15, NF-A14 and NF-F12 that are targeted for the first half of 2020 as well. The chromax line heatsink covers for the NH-U14S and NH-U14S TR4-SP3 will be available shortly.

 
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