NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

[AG1M]

Asrock had 32gb crucial sticks at computex. Heard they're supposed to be out sometime this year. Also 2666 and cl19

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14448/crucial-32-gb-udimms-asrock

In general nice, more RAM is always great, but on a (very good) two DIMM slot ITX board the RAM speed will be very limited. Short example with an ASRock Z370 ITX and very good binned Samsung B-Die memory:

With 2x8 GB I can easily OC my RAM to DDR4-4500 CL18 stable, booting up to DDR4-4700 no problem
With 2x16 GB I have a very good IMC with my CPU, but still a "wall" at DDR-3733 CL16 (with the best board for RAM OC - Maximus XI Gene - using the same RAM @ 2x16 GB DDR4-4133 CL17 was possible)
So with 2x32 GB anything around ~ DDR4-3000-3200 will be tough if this scales like that before with 2x8 GB vs 2x16 GB.

 

[Boil]

 

[AG1M]

Sweet great information, it seems the 32 GB moduels scales almost like 16 GB modules, 64 GB on ITX with decent speed / timings no dream anymore, now I need to get rid of these 2x16 GB kit and get this 2x32 GB kit instead.

 

[xSDMx]

So I am finally back with some more testing. This time bottom exhaust vs bottom intake. I didn't have an Accelero GPU cooler to test with, but rather just used the stock cooler and took the shroud and fans off.

The interesting part is, that in therory it should yield lower CPU/mobo temps with the cost being higher GPU temps. But I could not provide such evidence with this setup.

The GPU connected fans was working harder in exhaust and still the GPU temps was higher (delta) but the CPU temps were not lower. So it seems it was only a trade off - no gain. My theory now lies with the fact I am using a AIO cooler and that it does not gain any of the heat from within the system as the airway is blocked off from the inside (ie it does not use the internal air as a cooling device), so only outside air is used to cool the CPU. And as such it does not yield lower temps for the CPU if the GPU is exhausting into the case or outside.

My data is to find here as always. Its the bottom data sheet and test #3, #4 and #5 that I am speeking about here.

Given these findings, I'm thinking about trying the following setup:

• Corsair h100i Pro w/ 2xA12x25 as intake.
• Morpheus II w/ 2xA12x15 as intake.
• A9x14 as chassis exhaust.

Am I shooting myself in the foot here? I'm currently running with the Morpheus II in exhaust configuration (per recommendations) and it's OK. I'm having to hit 1800 RPM when gaming which matches closely to the higher RPM speeds that u/SmootyPoody observed. These findings are making me think that the bottom exhaust is only critical if you have a heatsink intaking hot air inside the chassis.

 

[QuantumBraced]

Just noticed that the $999 EVGA 2080 Ti is in stock. I still think it's overpriced, but if anyone is looking, this is the best deal you'll get.

 

[Boil]

Given these findings, I'm thinking about trying the following setup:

• Corsair h100i Pro w/ 2xA12x25 as intake.
• Morpheus II w/ 2xA12x15 as intake.
• A9x14 as chassis exhaust.

Am I shooting myself in the foot here? I'm currently running with the Morpheus II in exhaust configuration (per recommendations) and it's OK. I'm having to hit 1800 RPM when gaming which matches closely to the higher RPM speeds that u/SmootyPoody observed. These findings are making me think that the bottom exhaust is only critical if you have a heatsink intaking hot air inside the chassis.

You DO have a heat sink intaking hot air inside the chassis, it is just shaped like a water cooling radiator...

If you want to add the 92mm fan, then try it as intake...?

 

[xSDMx]

You DO have a heat sink intaking hot air inside the chassis, it is just shaped like a water cooling radiator...

If you want to add the 92mm fan, then try it as intake...?

I tested aio + exhaust vs. intake GPU. The difference is IMHO negligible:

I think it's more of an issue if you're running a cpu heatsink that pulls air directly from the inside of the chassis. My aio radiator pulls cool air directly from the side vents.

That said, there are some non-thermal pros/cons:

• With exhaust + a big gpu, you're dumping a lot of heat onto your desk. I, personally, didn't like having a hand warmer, nor did I feel comfortable dumping so much hot air onto my laminate desk.
• The sound signature, IMHO, is better with exhaust vs. intake. With intake, there is definitely a droning sound that I believe is likely due to turbulence.

Hope that's useful for folks!

 

[SmootyPoody]

I tested aio + exhaust vs. intake GPU. The difference is IMHO negligible:

I think it's more of an issue if you're running a cpu heatsink that pulls air directly from the inside of the chassis. My aio radiator pulls cool air directly from the side vents.

That said, there are some non-thermal pros/cons:

• With exhaust + a big gpu, you're dumping a lot of heat onto your desk. I, personally, didn't like having a hand warmer, nor did I feel comfortable dumping so much hot air onto my laminate desk.
• The sound signature, IMHO, is better with exhaust vs. intake. With intake, there is definitely a droning sound that I believe is likely due to turbulence.

Hope that's useful for folks!

I found something similare with the H100 Platinum. Because the AIO intakes cold air direct from the outside it does not really matter to the CPU temp if the GPU is exhausting or intaking. One could say that the CPU cooling is isolated from any outside heating (aside from ambient). But I did have cooler temps on the GPU when the GPU was intaking fresh air rather than using the air from within the case. I had 3c difference higher temps + 300rpm more on the exhausting setup (using air from within the case).

Here represented with test #4 vs #5 in the bottom of the sheet.

 

[DrunkenMercenary]

Im currently thinking about getting the Arctic Accelero GPU cooler for my build. Currently under load (only tested on DOOM so far) my GPU reaches a max temp of 74 degrees . The GPU I've got is the Gigabyte RTX 2080 Windforce and I actually managed to place two Thermalright TY147's below the GPU. Haven't tested the GPU without the two bottom fans as intake, but will do that soon. Not sure if the extra airflow from two fans or more air/room for the GPU hitsink + fan will have better temps.

Which version of the Arctic Accelero cooler do I need. Quite sure that the Windforce model is using the default PCB?

Some specs:
Asus B450 I gaming strix
Ryzen 2700 (now with stock cooler, still need to mount the Noctua C12P + 150mm noctua fan)
Gigabyte RTX 2080 Windforce

Going to install exhaust 92 mm fan and intake or exhaust (not sure yet) 120 mm fan on the side.

Image of the build without the side and top panels (sorry for potato quality and build is still quite messy):

 

[Nanook]

Im currently thinking about getting the Arctic Accelero GPU cooler for my build. Currently under load (only tested on DOOM so far) my GPU reaches a max temp of 74 degrees . The GPU I've got is the Gigabyte RTX 2080 Windforce and I actually managed to place two Thermalright TY147's below the GPU. Haven't tested the GPU without the two bottom fans as intake, but will do that soon. Not sure if the extra airflow from two fans or more air/room for the GPU hitsink + fan will have better temps.

Which version of the Arctic Accelero cooler do I need. Quite sure that the Windforce model is using the default PCB?

Some specs:
Asus B450 I gaming strix
Ryzen 2700 (now with stock cooler, still need to mount the Noctua C12P + 150mm noctua fan)
Gigabyte RTX 2080 Windforce

Going to install exhaust 92 mm fan and intake or exhaust (not sure yet) 120 mm fan on the side.

Image of the build without the side and top panels (sorry for potato quality and build is still quite messy):

Wow, do you have a Noctua C12P?! That’s awesome if you do . I’ve never seen one as it’s been discontinued before I started getting back into pc building 4-5 years ago.

To answer your question, the Arctic Accelero III is the one you’d want to mount on your 2080. I’m not 100% sure if the Windforce PCB is reference. I had the Accelero III on my 2080FE, and some of the Accelero heat pipes interferes with the vram mini heatsinks. They’re not needed as long as there’s airflow.

Also the two bottom 25mm x 120mm fans should be set up exhaust for best overall cooling.

 

[Boil]

Im currently thinking about getting the Arctic Accelero GPU cooler for my build.

Going to install exhaust 92 mm fan and intake or exhaust (not sure yet) 120 mm fan on the side.

...the Arctic Accelero III is the one you’d want to mount on your 2080. I’m not 100% sure if the Windforce PCB is reference. I had the Accelero III on my 2080FE, and some of the Accelero heat pipes interferes with the vram mini heatsinks. They’re not needed as long as there’s airflow.

Also the two bottom 25mm x 120mm fans should be set up exhaust for best overall cooling.

I would have 120mmx25mm as intake on the front of the side bracket & 92mmx25mm on the rear as exhaust, and (with the Accelero) two 120mmx25mm fans as exhaust...

Also, use Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM fans for the three 120mm fans, and a Noctua NF-A9 PWM fan for the rear exhaust (black versions of the A9 should be available in October & black versions of the 12x25s should be available sometime 1H2020, use coffee & cream until then)...

For the two fans exhausting on the bottom, use as Gelid VGA adapter & a Y-splitter attached to the fan connector on the gpu pcb...

 

[DrunkenMercenary]

Wow, do you have a Noctua C12P?! That’s awesome if you do . I’ve never seen one as it’s been discontinued before I started getting back into pc building 4-5 years ago.

To answer your question, the Arctic Accelero III is the one you’d want to mount on your 2080. I’m not 100% sure if the Windforce PCB is reference. I had the Accelero III on my 2080FE, and some of the Accelero heat pipes interferes with the vram mini heatsinks. They’re not needed as long as there’s airflow.

Also the two bottom 25mm x 120mm fans should be set up exhaust for best overall cooling.

Isn't cooling the VRAM's quite important? The whole issue with previous gen there were all those EVGA gpu's which had bad cooling on the VRAM which caused all of em to go dead. But the the #3 is the one to go for?

I would have 120mmx25mm as intake on the front of the side bracket & 92mmx25mm on the rear as exhaust, and (with the Accelero) two 120mmx25mm fans as exhaust...

Also, use Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM fans for the three 120mm fans, and a Noctua NF-A9 PWM fan for the rear exhaust (black versions of the A9 should be available in October & black versions of the 12x25s should be available sometime 1H2020, use coffee & cream until then)...

For the two fans exhausting on the bottom, use as Gelid VGA adapter & a Y-splitter attached to the fan connector on the gpu pcb...

I can't live with the brown noctua's! Setup I have planned is a 150mm Noctua NF-A15 for CPU cooler (topdown Noctua C12P), 120mm Noiseblocker BlackSilentPro PL2 as intake on the side, 92mm Noiseblocker BlackSilentPro PE-1 as exhaust of the case and two 140mm Thermalright TY147's (in combination with the Arctic Accelero). Would two 120mm fans at the bottom be more sufficient than two 140mm TY147's?

 

[Nanook]

Isn't cooling the VRAM's quite important? The whole issue with previous gen there were all those EVGA gpu's which had bad cooling on the VRAM which caused all of em to go dead. But the the #3 is the one to go for??

The III is the one that comes with all the small VRM / Vram heatsinks. The IV comes with a giant passive heatsink backplate that won't fit with most air coolers in the M1. In regards to the EVGA failed ACX line, they had problems with VRM overheating, the Vram doesn't get as hot as the VRM.

 

[Boil]

I can't live with the brown noctua's! Setup I have planned is a 150mm Noctua NF-A15 for CPU cooler (topdown Noctua C12P), 120mm Noiseblocker BlackSilentPro PL2 as intake on the side, 92mm Noiseblocker BlackSilentPro PE-1 as exhaust of the case and two 140mm Thermalright TY147's (in combination with the Arctic Accelero). Would two 120mm fans at the bottom be more sufficient than two 140mm TY147's?

The 140s might not fit, but a pair of 120s will...?

I also am in the Coffee & Cream VS. Black camp...
I have purchased a 'poop brown' NF-A9 PWM fan for my rear exhaust (Cerberus chassis), it will be replaced with a black version in October...
I have two NF-S12A PWM fans I will use until the black 12x25s come out, and I will use the stock fans on my Fractal Design Celsius S24 AIO unitl I can replace those with a pair of 12x25s...

The sacrifices we make for quite cooling...!?!

From the Noctua website:

In the chromax line, Noctua showed all-black versions of the NH-D15, NH-U12S and NH-L9i as well as black versions of the NF-A20, NF-A9, NF-A9x14 and NF-A8 fans, all of which are scheduled for release in Q4 2019. The black versions of the NF-A12x25 and NF-A12x15 that were on display are on the roadmap for the first half of 2020. In addition to its black chromax line fans, Noctua displayed white variants of the NF-A15, NF-A14 and NF-F12 that are targeted for the first half of 2020 as well. The chromax line heatsink covers for the NH-U14S and NH-U14S TR4-SP3 will be available shortly.

 

[DrunkenMercenary]

The 140s might not fit, but a pair of 120s will...?

I also am in the Coffee & Cream VS. Black camp...
I have purchased a 'poop brown' NF-A9 PWM fan for my rear exhaust (Cerberus chassis), it will be replaced with a black version in October...
I have two NF-S12A PWM fans I will use until the black 12x25s come out, and I will use the stock fans on my Fractal Design Celsius S24 AIO unitl I can replace those with a pair of 12x25s...

The sacrifices we make for quite cooling...!?!

From the Noctua website:

In the chromax line, Noctua showed all-black versions of the NH-D15, NH-U12S and NH-L9i as well as black versions of the NF-A20, NF-A9, NF-A9x14 and NF-A8 fans, all of which are scheduled for release in Q4 2019. The black versions of the NF-A12x25 and NF-A12x15 that were on display are on the roadmap for the first half of 2020. In addition to its black chromax line fans, Noctua displayed white variants of the NF-A15, NF-A14 and NF-F12 that are targeted for the first half of 2020 as well. The chromax line heatsink covers for the NH-U14S and NH-U14S TR4-SP3 will be available shortly.

I’ve actually already managed to mount two 140mm fans bellow the gpu see my post with picture above. It’s a Gigabyte rtx 2080 windforce with two TY147’s beneath it. I’ll start with mounting my cpu cooler and all the other intake/exhaust fans and see how my overal temps will be. If needed I’ll purchase the Arctic Accelero!

It’s SO nice to see that Noctua is finally releasing more black fans. Have to say I like the grey-ish ones as well to be honest.

 

[TurpoUrpo]

So it has passed many years as there has been no tangible performance uplift from i7-4770k. But now its time to build a new M1 build and retire the old one in original v1 M1, maybe I need to "museum" it .

It also seems that it would be all AMD this time around and not with greatest performance as the gaming part is lot less nowdays for some reason.


What is the most quiet way to build cooling today in M1, I like watercooling, but is it really worth it what comes to loudness and dust mitigation of insedes of the case?

So Necere no changelog yet for V6?

 

[QuantumBraced]

I wish they would do an A version of the 92mm fan. They're working on 140mm now, but I hope 92mm is next. They really take their time.

 

[QuantumBraced]

Prime Day is on. Some amazing deals on SSDs.

 

[Smitty2k1]

So it has passed many years as there has been no tangible performance uplift from i7-4770k. But now its time to build a new M1 build and retire the old one in original v1 M1, maybe I need to "museum" it .

It also seems that it would be all AMD this time around and not with greatest performance as the gaming part is lot less nowdays for some reason.


What is the most quiet way to build cooling today in M1, I like watercooling, but is it really worth it what comes to loudness and dust mitigation of insedes of the case?

So Necere no changelog yet for V6?

Still got my 4770k going in an NCASE M1 v1 from the initial batch. I've upgraded the GPU but have found no reason to upgrade the CPU yet. I'd definitely go team red with an Accelero 3 cooler and some Noctua fans.

 

[Qrash]

Still got my 4770k going in an NCASE M1 v1 from the initial batch. I've upgraded the GPU but have found no reason to upgrade the CPU yet. I'd definitely go team red with an Accelero 3 cooler and some Noctua fans.

I'm in the same situation almost (4790K). I'm in no rush, but a new Zen 2 in my Rev. 4 M1 is awfully tempting.

BTW, did you see Optimum Tech's video today? He was able to undervolt a 3900X to only 1.0 Volt. This really reduced the power draw and hence its temperature. Unfortunately, it also caused a performance hit so he pulled the video until he can do more testing to find out at what voltage the performance drop occurs and how much of a drop there is.

 

[M1AF]

Waiting for V6 be like

 

[AG1M]

BTW, did you see Optimum Tech's video today? He was able to undervolt a 3900X to only 1.0 Volt. This really reduced the power draw and hence its temperature. Unfortunately, it also caused a performance hit so he pulled the video until he can do more testing to find out at what voltage the performance drop occurs and how much of a drop there is.

The problem is with this low voltage the clock speeds are lower too, but the monitoring tools only count and detect the peak clock speeds, that's why the perfomance is decreased in real world. This mechanism for the AMD CPU is called "Clock Stretching", so the boost clock looks like you have a all core speed like 4.2 GHz, but the true is your all core speed is lower, to avoid with undervolt settings a unstable system. So it's better to manually set the voltage/clock instead of using the boost and "auto" settings to gain to perfomance and lower power draw.

I only can share a German source for this, but I think with Google Translator it should be ok to understand: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...uen-ryzen-prozessoren-wenig-effektiv-ist.html

 

[Qrash]

The problem is with this low voltage the clock speeds are lower too, but the monitoring tools only count and detect the peak clock speeds, that's why the perfomance is decreased in real world. This mechanism for the AMD CPU is called "Clock Stretching", so the boost clock looks like you have a all core speed like 4.2 GHz, but the true is your all core speed is lower, to avoid with undervolt settings a unstable system. So it's better to manually set the voltage/clock instead of using the boost and "auto" settings to gain to perfomance and lower power draw.

I only can share a German source for this, but I think with Google Translator it should be ok to understand: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...uen-ryzen-prozessoren-wenig-effektiv-ist.html

Thanks for the link. I will definitely check it out.

Yeah, Optimum Tech posted a follow-up video today that stated the previous one was in error. It seems undervolting in the BIOS doesn't work right for Zen 2 CPUs so he used Ryzen Master to undervolt. This application forces the user to set an all-core fixed clock speed when adjusting the Vcore. So, Ryzen's normal boosting behaviour is disabled which adversely affects single and lightly threaded tasks. Anyway, the performance decrease when undervolting this way will vary between applications so it might not be too bad and the heating load is less. Still, who buys a 3900X and then downclocks it (effectively)?

 

[TurpoUrpo]

About the undervolting of 3000 series ryzen, most valid info might be here: https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...nical-matisse-not-really-22.html#post28046248

 

[Pillars]

Are you selling one?

I've been interested in one for a few years and never got around to getting one. Kind of bummed to see the optical drive version discontinued as I have a slot blu-ray drive just sitting around....

I couldn't find anything definitive on V6

I have a black slot top panel I'd trade for a non slotted.

 

[brahbruh]

Hi guys, currently using a V4. It's time to put an end to my computer that have survived 5 years and many case swaps. I do not plan to keep anything in my current build beside my PSU which is a silverstone SFX 450 is im not wrong.

I want to give AMD a try and im planning on going with a 3700x. Would you recommend the MSI b450i for the case?

I'm planning on going air cooling and want to get the U9S as it seems like the "safest" option in terms of compatibility, do you think the C14s would fit this motherboard?

 

[rfarmer]

Hi guys, currently using a V4. It's time to put an end to my computer that have survived 5 years and many case swaps. I do not plan to keep anything in my current build beside my PSU which is a silverstone SFX 450 is im not wrong.

I want to give AMD a try and im planning on going with a 3700x. Would you recommend the MSI b450i for the case?

I'm planning on going air cooling and want to get the U9S as it seems like the "safest" option in terms of compatibility, do you think the C14s would fit this motherboard?

I just checked Noctua's site and the C14S is listed as fully compatible with the B450i, not sure if you will need it but it should give you the best cooling in the M1. I am also about to do a new Ryzen build and went with the B450i, from all the comments I have read it seems to be the preferred motherboard from the 400 series. Good VRM's and price is very competitive. Just remember you are going to have to update the BIOS.

 

[teo]

Also keep in mind that to use a 140mm fan under the c14s, the psu must be in the ATX position. You can use the normal SFX mounting if you use a 120mm fan instead (and Noctua will be happy to send you clips). Also note that you can only fit a slim fan on top of the c14s in the M1, e.g. a Noctua a12x15.

I do think a U9S will be adequate cooling, though, which is much easier to work with and probably cheaper

 

[Necere]

Changelog updated for M1 V6.

Renders:

 

[Rhialto]

Looking good, I like the look of the new feet...

 

[thomps33]

Looks like I'll be purchasing a V6. You nailed all the improvements on my wish list!

 

[kubusikan]

Nice!

Are the side panels still compatible to a V5 case?

 

[Necere]

Nice!

Are the side panels still compatible to a V5 case?

Yes they are.

 

[QuantumBraced]

Love the new feet, similar to OptimumTech's 3D printed ones. Great work!

Necere
Question -- will the new feet be sold separately and compatible with V5? And the exact same question for the new front I/O?

 

[Necere]

Love the new feet, similar to OptimumTech's 3D printed ones. Great work!

Necere
Question -- will the new feet be sold separately and compatible with V5? And the exact same question for the new front I/O?

Front I/O yes, feet probably not. I changed the feet screws to M4 just for better thread holding, so the new feet are designed for the larger M4 screws and the standard M3s used on the <=V5 would be too small.

The other thing with the feet is that since it's a single screw holding each one in place, they'd get out of alignment on the <=V5. On the V6, they're sort of walled in by edges of the new steel bottom plate, so they can't really move around.

 

[QuantumBraced]

Front I/O yes, feet probably not. I changed the feet screws to M4 just for better thread holding, so the new feet are designed for the larger M4 screws and the standard M3s used on the <=V5 would be too small.

The other thing with the feet is that since it's a single screw holding each one in place, they'd get out of alignment on the <=V5. On the V6, they're sort of walled in by edges of the new steel bottom plate, so they can't really move around.

I see, thank you. I guess you could still do M3 screw + nut? And then it would just require a bit more care and/or screwing them really hard to avoid them getting out of alignment. Doable?

OptimumTech has 3D printed feet which are very similar to your new ones, on a V5 (or older) and they are always aligned in the videos

 

[Necere]

I see, thank you. I guess you could still do M3 screw + nut? And then it would just require a bit more care and/or screwing them really hard to avoid them getting out of alignment. Doable?

M3 screw+washer could work, has to be no more than 8.5mm in diameter though. Screwing in the feet really hard isn't a great idea, since they are rubber and the walls will start to deform under the pressure from the screw.

 

[cjone2]

Not sure if GPU compatibility is still being collated anywhere but the ASUS Dual 2070 SUPER fits in nicely:

Thinking of removing the shroud and trying 2 120mm fans below. Anyone got any particular advice here or a guide I should follow?

V6 looks fantastic. I do agree that the full side grill maybe doesn't look as good but if it lowers GPU temps then that would be worth it. Would be very interested to see temperature comparisons.

 

[brahbruh]

Hi guys,

I just finalized the parts im gonna get and would like to ask if you guys think there would be any problem with parts possibly colliding. Will be used in a V4.

CPU + Mobo: MSI b450i + 3700x (the MSI board seems to be recommended, is there anything i should look into?)
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws V 3200 CAS 16 (The heatsink on this seems kind of big?)
SSD: Corsair MP510
Cooler: Noctua C14S (with stock fan mounted at the bottom) (If i do not plan on overclocking would you recommend the U9S over the C14S if acoustics is of main importance?)
PSU: Corsair SF600
GPU: Stock 980ti + Accelero III (Noctua NF-F12 x2) (Or should I go with cheaper fans for exhaust? Acoustics is a huge thing for me on this build)

Thank you!

 

[TurpoUrpo]

That nails it, it looks even better with bigger side ventilation on my opinion.

I think extending (I assume also "right side" to be extended too, that is not showing in the renders) makes bottom rad pulling air inside the case now actual option as the air could flow out better through the extended ventilation and more open bottom and better bottom clearance are good for that too.

Will be ordering definitely ordering the black one to replace my current M1 V1