Linux performance still a let down on desktop.

[MrCrispy]

I found KDE to be a lot more full featured than Gnome. In Gnome you have to get a bunch of extensions to get a usable desktop, the default is very barebones without even a list of running apps (like taskbar, dock etc). And Gnome has a philosophy of not exposing any configuration, if you need it it has to be done via cmdline. But it does have better animations.

The whole thing is unfortunate. Linix should have gone with Qt vs Gtk, all the fears over Qt not being open source etc at the time turned out to be bs, and now we have 2 competing toolkits and standards with no hope of unification. At least Ubuntu dropped stupid Unity. I've seen a lot of articles about how they should've gone with Kde vs Gnome and I agree.

 

[MrCrispy]

The Windows 10 spyware hype is something that only geeks care about. No one has to wrestle with any of those switches. Switching Edge to make another browser like Chrome the default is trivial, you are given the choice in many different ways and once you do it (e.g. when running Chrome for the first time, it couldn't be easier) Edge isn't going to try and change it back.

Windows 10 going backward is just a forum meme.. If you go by forum reactions why would you say Linux is improving The fact is both are making improvements.

If Linux is to see wider adoption, it doesn't help if you start with the assumption that everything is perfect and any issues are user faults - this is the exact perception many have of the Linux community and its persecution complex. The simple fact is LOTD faces an uphill battle and many things have to be fixed to make the user experience better.

 

[BulletDust]

I found KDE to be a lot more full featured than Gnome. In Gnome you have to get a bunch of extensions to get a usable desktop, the default is very barebones without even a list of running apps (like taskbar, dock etc). And Gnome has a philosophy of not exposing any configuration, if you need it it has to be done via cmdline. But it does have better animations.

The whole thing is unfortunate. Linix should have gone with Qt vs Gtk, all the fears over Qt not being open source etc at the time turned out to be bs, and now we have 2 competing toolkits and standards with no hope of unification. At least Ubuntu dropped stupid Unity. I've seen a lot of articles about how they should've gone with Kde vs Gnome and I agree.

In relation to Gnome I completely agree, I did a mini review on Gnome on these very forums where I highlighted all of the points you mention. However it still does not change the fact that if you don't like Gnome, don't use it, you have plenty more options.

In relation to Qt vs Gtk, I see that being more of an issue for coders than end users - It's never really presented a problem for me. In what way does it present a problem for you as an end user?

 

[BulletDust]

The Windows 10 spyware hype is something that only geeks care about. No one has to wrestle with any of those switches. Switching Edge to make another browser like Chrome the default is trivial, you are given the choice in many different ways and once you do it (e.g. when running Chrome for the first time, it couldn't be easier) Edge isn't going to try and change it back.

Windows 10 going backward is just a forum meme.. If you go by forum reactions why would you say Linux is improving The fact is both are making improvements.

If Linux is to see wider adoption, it doesn't help if you start with the assumption that everything is perfect and any issues are user faults - this is the exact perception many have of the Linux community and its persecution complex. The simple fact is LOTD faces an uphill battle and many things have to be fixed to make the user experience better.

Privacy issues in modern society are very real and very serious. If the masses knew their data was being harvested I can assure you they'd be up in arms.

The issue you experienced, you induced by installing a conflicting software application. You know this and this most definitely happens under Windows from time to time also.

As evidenced there is no issue with either VLC or Firefox under Linux when increased power saving measures aren't added.

 

[MrCrispy]

Can we not bring privacy into this? The masses use and worship Facebook every minute who are a far far worse privacy violator than Microsoft will ever be and no one cares. No one is up in arms and they all know, but couldn't care less.

But MS as big bad evil is a convenient narrative.

Let me ask you, do you think Linux has no adoption on desktop due to real issues or do you think it's just a conspiracy theory?

 

[Snowdog]

Which DE are you referring to, Cinnamon, LXDE, XFCE? Is it mentioned on any of their pages that you need a OGL 3.0 compliant card? This would also be a trivial thing to check in the OS itself and warn the user, not allow them to switch. e.g. when you try to switch to an unsupported resolution/refesh etc, you get a msg asking if everything looks ok otherwise the system will revert the changes. Why doesn't Linux do this? It would be even simpler since the OS has complete knowledge of all the software updates and knows about repos.

It doesn't. According to the KDE/KWin docs, it only supports OGL 1.x and 2.x.

OGL 3.x has nothing to do with the issue. The real question is what does "ForceCompositionPipeline" do?

 

[BulletDust]

Can we not bring privacy into this? The masses use and worship Facebook every minute who are a far far worse privacy violator than Microsoft will ever be and no one cares. No one is up in arms and they all know, but couldn't care less.

But MS as big bad evil is a convenient narrative.

Let me ask you, do you think Linux has no adoption on desktop due to real issues or do you think it's just a conspiracy theory?

Privacy issues at OS level are a major problem, you can't hide from this. However this thread is not the place for such discussion.

It doesn't. According to the KDE/KWin docs, it only supports OGL 1.x and 2.x.

OGL 3.x has nothing to do with the issue. The real question is what does "ForceCompositionPipeline" do?

https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/...ion-pipeline-and-force-composition-pipeline-/

You linked an article where the author describes an issue with gaming and force composition pipeline under differing resolutions, which I have read before and was equally puzzled the first time I read the article - This is the first time I've heard of this issue and I've been trying to replicate it with no success whatsoever. Force Composition Pipeline is one of those options you set and forget with no issues.

 

[BulletDust]

Let me ask you, do you think Linux has no adoption on desktop due to real issues or do you think it's just a conspiracy theory?

I know that in the last few years alone Linux adoption has doubled considering dubious methods of measurement, considering the obvious concern Microsoft have regarding Linux as a desktop OS I have no doubt that adoption is actually far higher than 2%. I know that sites like r/linux are showing subscription rates far higher than comparable Windows sites with less in the way of support requests. I know Windows usage statistics are a result of forced installs and I know Linux is not marketed like macOS or Windows.

I do not believe there to be any conspiracy regarding Linux adoption whatsoever, why would there be?

 

[heatlesssun]

I know that sites like r/linux are showing subscription rates far higher than comparable Windows sites with less in the way of support requests.

So how many subscribers are on r/pcgaming?

 

[BulletDust]

So how many subscribers are on r/pcgaming?

Considering the time Windows has been the dominant gaming platform, it's of no surprise whatsoever that it's naturally a healthy figure. As to whether the fact that r/Windows is full of support requests and r/pcgaming highlights people see Windows as a gaming platform is actually necessarily a good thing is open to ones interpretation based on whether you want a troublesome PC that's a good Xbox or not (simply based on what I see on Reddit and in no way reflective of my opinion).

The fact is that when you combine r/Windows and r/pcgaming you get 412,422 subscribers, while combining r/linux and r/linux_gaming results in 299,191 subscribers. Such figures are hardly an indication of a failing or even floundering OS in the consumer space - Fact is there is absolutely no denying the massive increase in Linux awareness simply based on the last two years alone with no bias whatsoever.

 

[auntjemima]

I know that in the last few years alone Linux adoption has doubled considering dubious methods of measurement, considering the obvious concern Microsoft have regarding Linux as a desktop OS I have no doubt that adoption is actually far higher than 2%. I know that sites like r/linux are showing subscription rates far higher than comparable Windows sites with less in the way of support requests. I know Windows usage statistics are a result of forced installs and I know Linux is not marketed like macOS or Windows.

I do not believe there to be any conspiracy regarding Linux adoption whatsoever, why would there be?

1. You KNOW Linux use has increased and then claim the trackers are dubious? Alright.
2. Once again, Windows cannot be legally forced on anyone. Even if Microsoft was offering OEM's HUGE discounts to install their software, why pick Windows when Linux is FREE? Not discounted, but free.
3. When is the last time you have seen a Windows ad? Microsoft ads, sure, but never Windows. I don't think it has any real marketing and doesn't need it.

You always speak with such assurance when you really can't provide anything besides your opinion or your thoughts. Neither of these are substantiated.

 

[heatlesssun]

The fact is that when you combine r/Windows and r/pcgaming you get 412,422 subscribers, while combining r/linux and r/linux_gaming results in 299,191 subscribers. Such figures are hardly an indication of a failing or even floundering OS in the consumer space -

Those numbers are nothing in terms of actual users.

Fact is there is absolutely no denying the massive increase in Linux awareness simply based on the last two years alone with no bias whatsoever.

20 years of massive increases should mean more than Valve reporting less that 1% users on Steam. You make note of my age and that's cool. Because I've seem this before. Reported massive Linux increases and the death of Microsoft on the desktop for 20 years. Constantly. I've been following it from the beginning.

 

[heatlesssun]

1. You KNOW Linux use has increased and then claim the trackers are dubious? Alright.

LOL! Great point and it has been mentioned to him on tons of occasions. Sub 1% on reporting on the Steam survey he's explain away a couple of ways. Either the survey is totally wrong or even if it's right a drop in the Linux percentage means nothing as Steam is growing. He backed off the first option as bit as a post on gamingonlinux confirmed the Steam survey independently.

 

[BulletDust]

1. You KNOW Linux use has increased and then claim the trackers are dubious? Alright.
2. Once again, Windows cannot be legally forced on anyone. Even if Microsoft was offering OEM's HUGE discounts to install their software, why pick Windows when Linux is FREE? Not discounted, but free.
3. When is the last time you have seen a Windows ad? Microsoft ads, sure, but never Windows. I don't think it has any real marketing and doesn't need it.

You always speak with such assurance when you really can't provide anything besides your opinion or your thoughts. Neither of these are substantiated.

It's well known that trackers are dubious, I can provide practical examples as to why using the statistics off my websites own webcounter. The fact remains that there is little doubt that Linux usage is well over 2%.

We've been over the issues surrounding the purchase of hardware with no OS or Linux installed many times in the past, I don't really feel the need to argue the point again - Fact is, here in AU I cannot realistically purchase an OEM 'modern' laptop with a variant of Linux preinstalled from factory within Australia and it appears to be illegal to sell a laptop with no OS installed. Furthermore, wiping Windows and installing Linux results in warranty issues with OEM vendors that are best avoided.

So yes, in many cases Windows is a forced install.

In relation to Windows ad's, I see them all the time! There's the one with the guy drawing mug shots claiming a touch screen is as good as a dedicated graphics tablet.

Those numbers are nothing in terms of actual users.

Right, must just be people subscribing for no reason then.

Considering the impossibility of largely accurate OS sales figures regarding Linux, statistics like this are all anyone's got.

20 years of massive increases should mean more than Valve reporting less that 1% users on Steam. You make note of my age and that's cool. Because I've seem this before. Reported massive Linux increases and the death of Microsoft on the desktop for 20 years. Constantly. I've been following it from the beginning.

20 years of massive increases? What are you on about? Who mentioned 20 years of massive increases and what has 20 years ago got to do with anything?

You really need to let go of the past Heatlesssun, it in no way reflects the present.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'll start off saying that I think that a large percentage, perhaps even most people on Windows can use Linux. I've said this for years and am still called a Microsoft shill. I honestly don't believe that desktop Linux folks are that interested in the average user. There are tons of folks that concede that if all a person needs is a web browser (and that's a LOT of folks) and basic gaming, LibreOffice, etc., that Linux would probably work well for these people. I have to admit that I don't get why pro-Linux folks blast me when I've conceded much of what they are saying.

But don't tell me stuff like Linux is Steam VR compatible. That's just ridiculous if you have any idea of that you're talking about. Hate VR, say it's got this problem or that problem but to say it's VR compatible is insane compared to the state of VR on Windows.

 

[BulletDust]

I'll start off saying that I think that a large percentage, perhaps even most people on Windows can use Linux. I've said this for years and am still called a Microsoft shill. I honestly don't believe that desktop Linux folks are that interested in the average user. There are tons of folks that concede that if all a person needs is a web browser (and that's a LOT of folks) and basic gaming, LibreOffice, etc., that Linux would probably work well for these people. I have to admit that I don't get why pro-Linux folks blast me when I've conceded much of what they are saying.

But don't tell me stuff like Linux is Steam VR compatible. That's just ridiculous if you have any idea of that you're talking about. Hate VR, say it's got this problem or that problem but to say it's VR compatible is insane compared to the state of VR on Windows.

VR, VR, VR!

Dear gawd, you know my opinion on VR under Linux, it opposes yours, get over it.

 

[auntjemima]

It's well known that trackers are dubious, I can provide practical examples as to why using the statistics off my websites own webcounter. The fact remains that there is little doubt that Linux usage is well over 2%.

We've been over the issues surrounding the purchase of hardware with no OS or Linux installed many times in the past, I don't really feel the need to argue the point again - Fact is, here in AU I cannot realistically purchase an OEM 'modern' laptop with a variant of Linux preinstalled from factory within Australia and it appears to be illegal to sell a laptop with no OS installed. Furthermore, wiping Windows and installing Linux results in warranty issues with OEM vendors that are best avoided.

So yes, in many cases Windows is a forced install.

In relation to Windows ad's, I see them all the time! There's the one with the guy drawing mug shots claiming a touch screen is as good as a dedicated graphics tablet.

1. The fact remains there is little doubt.. do you know what a fact is?
2. Windows is not forced on the company. I realize you have to buy a laptop with Windows 99 times out of 100, but that doesn't mean its forced on the one providing you the option. Why not comment on why OEM's are not providing you the option? Microsoft cannot LEGALLY do anything that would prevent an OEM from providing options. This has been taken care of numerous times against the OS, against IE, even against WMP in the form of Windows N versions. Why are OEM's not providing a FREE option to their customers? Isn't the bottom line everything to them? You and I both know why, but you will never admit to it.
3. I guess I just don't see them. I believe you that they exist.

edit: I DO believe that Linux adoption is increasing, and it very well may be at the level you think, but there isn't anything to substantiate it. That's all.

 

[heatlesssun]

Right, must just be people subscribing for no reason then.

You pick on social media site and proclaim victory. Look at a much better known social media site like Twitter. Windows to Linux there is 20 to 1.

20 years of massive increases? What are you on about? Who mentioned 20 years of massive increases and what has 20 years ago got to do with anything?

Those days is where the meme of the Year of the Linux desktop were formed.

 

[BulletDust]

2. Windows is not forced on the company. I realize you have to buy a laptop with Windows 99 times out of 100, but that doesn't mean its forced on the one providing you the option. Why not comment on why OEM's are not providing you the option? Microsoft cannot LEGALLY do anything that would prevent an OEM from providing options. This has been taken care of numerous times against the OS, against IE, even against WMP in the form of Windows N versions. Why are OEM's not providing a FREE option to their customers? Isn't the bottom line everything to them? You and I both know why, but you will never admit to it.

You talk about facts and then you come up with a statement implying that you know all about deals between OEM vendors and Microsoft, deals that are no doubt deliberately kept most secret for a number of reasons. Come off it.

If I could provide deadly accurate factual evidence proving the usage statistics of Linux I would - Fact is, that's all but impossible.

If you believe Linux usage is no higher than 2% - All the power to you my friend.

Not interested in arguing this point again, we've been over it before.

Those days is where the meme of the Year of the Linux desktop were formed.

And here we have statistical evidence based on a meme of all things!

It appears certain individuals get backed into a corner and just start sprouting shit! What the hell!

 

[heatlesssun]

VR, VR, VR!

VR was a greenfield for Linux opportunity. No one had it 14 months ago. No one. Most anyone that can setup PC VR can install at least Ubuntu. It's certainly a group that has far more means and ability to install desktop Linux than average folks. And it is a group what would have readily setup Linux for the best in PC VR. But they didn't. And no one forced them use Linux, at least not Microsoft.

 

[heatlesssun]

It appears certain individuals get backed into a corner and just start sprouting shit! What the hell!

Backed into what corner? You're the one going ape over some installing a Linux distro and not seeing an option on the GUI and blasting them to hell. I was able to get a VR Linux setup running without your help. Clearly no one would ever ask you for that sort of help around here. I didn't and didn't need it.

I mean, damn, you're not a Linux god. You know tons more about it than I do but even I can do things with Linux you've never seen. Really, give it a rest. I'm not bashing Linux but you're freaking out over just simple stuff now.

 

[BulletDust]

VR was a greenfield for Linux opportunity. No one had it 14 months ago. No one. Most anyone that can setup PC VR can install at least Ubuntu. It's certainly a group that has far more means and ability to install desktop Linux than average folks. And it is a group what would have readily setup Linux for the best in PC VR. But they didn't. And no one forced them use Linux, at least not Microsoft.

Yeah, good.

Backed into what corner? You're the one going ape over some installing a Linux distro and not seeing an option on the GUI and blasting them to hell. I was able to get a VR Linux setup running without your help. Clearly no one would ever ask you for that sort of help around here. I didn't and didn't need it.

I mean, damn, you're not a Linux god. You know tons more about it than I do but even I can do things with Linux you've never seen. Really, give it a rest. I'm not bashing Linux but you're freaking out over just simple stuff now.

Excuse me? I'm not going ape at all, in fact I'm quite calm. The OP made an overgeneralised statement, I refuted that statement and proved using practical examples and literally identical hardware that the statement in question was in fact unjustified considering the issues facing every OS and the vast configuration options available relating to the modern PC. The OP never wanted assistance, that was never the point of this thread. If the OP was friendly, interested and accepting instead of blindly throwing around blanket statements I would have had no issue helping him.

As for "Linux God's" and your ability?! Once again, just mindless ranting. I don't care about you Heatlesssun, you're not that important.

When I first highlighted the forced desktop composition option I didn't even make a remark - It was no more than screenshots!

 

[MrCrispy]

Consider using Windows vs Linux for a new user. For most people Windows will come preinstalled on their laptop/pc. But lets take the case where they have to download the iso and make a usb - this process is basically the same for both.

Once they have a bootable iso and know how to boot a pc from usb (can be hard to figure out with UEFI/BIOS etc), can a user install the OS? I think both installers are pretty much the same. Linux when choosing live cd has the advantage of trying out OS before install. In some cases the installer language for disk partitioning etc can be a bit daunting.

Once installed can they use the OS with no other guidance with working everything and sane defaults, and for any issues be able to google and solve them? I maintain Linux is nit there yet and I'd hesitate to recommend it to people I cannot provide tech support for.

At least people have stopped saying that Windows uses more resources than Linux, that used to be a common saying. The fact is your avg user doesn't know or care about open source, repos, the Windows 10 spying is way overhyped, people just want to get on with their lives and use the pc to get work done.

The reason OSX works so well is they took stable Linux base and made it an appliance, plus the Apple hype factor. The day Linux folk care enough to provide a tested, stable, standardized experience which works on commodity hardware is when adoption will take off. The fact is most open source software works as well if not better in Windows and the avg user simply has no reason to switch.

 

[BulletDust]

Consider using Windows vs Linux for a new user. For most people Windows will come preinstalled on their laptop/pc. But lets take the case where they have to download the iso and make a usb - this process is basically the same for both.

Once they have a bootable iso and know how to boot a pc from usb (can be hard to figure out with UEFI/BIOS etc), can a user install the OS? I think both installers are pretty much the same. Linux when choosing live cd has the advantage of trying out OS before install. In some cases the installer language for disk partitioning etc can be a bit daunting.

Once installed can they use the OS with no other guidance with working everything and sane defaults, and for any issues be able to google and solve them? I maintain Linux is nit there yet and I'd hesitate to recommend it to people I cannot provide tech support for.

At least people have stopped saying that Windows uses more resources than Linux, that used to be a common saying. The fact is your avg user doesn't know or care about open source, repos, the Windows 10 spying is way overhyped, people just want to get on with their lives and use the pc to get work done.

The reason OSX works so well is they took stable Linux base and made it an appliance, plus the Apple hype factor. The day Linux folk care enough to provide a tested, stable, standardized experience which works on commodity hardware is when adoption will take off. The fact is most open source software works as well if not better in Windows and the avg user simply has no reason to switch.

Most people?! What people specifically?

You have to understand that most people cannot install an OS - Period.

I installed Windows 10 and rebooted to a black screen, guess what I did to resolve the issue? A PITA I might add as I then had to go and use another PC to search for the solution. Numerous times I've fired up the Windows 7 installer only to have it find no hard drive, once again a PITA due to the need to search for solutions on another PC.

I have provided links further back in this thread proving the fairly large scale existence of these very issues - Yet I never saw the need to create a thread writing Windows off as a desktop OS completely, that would be stupid.

As a Windows, macOS and Linux user I never stated that Windows uses more resources than Linux, it does however take up more install space considering the software bundled with most packaged distro's.

Search for the number of people encountering the issue of no composition options using Nvidia drivers under Linux, I can assure you this scenario is a freak, one off issue completely unrelated to the generation of hardware as I used literally the same card and all options were available to me as part of the most simple install imaginable.

If you want me to demonstrate just how easy it is to get a Linux install up and running on a broken PC with no issues whatsoever I'm only to happy to debunk the myth that Linux is as a whole impossible for new users to install. If you hadn't installed a certain software package, your own install would have worked just fine with no Google searching that you made anyone aware of whatsoever.

As for me abusing Snowdog, go back through the thread and I can assure everyone that the context Snowdog used when replying to me was far worse than the context I used when replying to him.

[EDIT] OSX is not based on Linux.

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't care about you Heatlesssun, you're not that important.

You're hilarious! Like a 50+ year old individual really gives a shit about someone that never gave them shit.

 

[heatlesssun]

You have to understand that most people cannot install an OS - Period.

I installed Windows 10 and rebooted to a black screen, guess what I did to resolve the issue?

Try installing anything on the kind of hardware I've used over the year. Hell, let's give VR a rest, trying getting a 3D BD working on a PC that's perfectly capable of it. Under Linux.

As unimportant as you would declare me I have been dealing with PC hardware for a long time, as long as you. Shit happens.

 

[BulletDust]

As a long term HTPC user, BD+ playback is unreliable at best under Windows, 3D or not. The number of issues I had with BD+ playback using all popular software packages was just ridiculous. Stick to a dedicated player as PC's are hopeless where DRM is a consideration.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I cannot foresee much in the way of issues installing Linux on your PC, as evidenced by the fact that you say you've done it.

HDDVD playback using MakeMKV and VLC under Linux is more reliable than BD+ playback under Windows in my experience. In fact in my experience Windows as a media centre was always a compromise, I switched my HTPC entirely to Linux and Kodi and never looked back.

[EDIT] For the record I have another five years before I reach 50.

 

[Snowdog]

As for me abusing Snowdog, go back through the thread and I can assure everyone that the context Snowdog used when replying to me was far worse than the context I used when replying to him.

I never gave you any grief until you attacked me.

You said I was whining, shitting on Linux, and didn't research, a well known issue. But you didn't solve to the supposedly well known issue.

Instead of solutions you just attacked me repeatedly for using older equipment, both for my video card, and sound.

You have provided no solutions, and offered nothing but ridicule, and insults to me for daring to expect Linux to work on older gear.

I'm the one who actually solved the video/audio issues.

You have a long standing pattern of attacking anyone who has any issue with Linux, and then interjecting you continual comments about how much Windows sucks.

Normally I want to see Linux succeed, but after interacting with you, I start to wish it would disappear if such toxic people are associated with it.

 

[bigdogchris]

 

[BulletDust]

I never gave you any grief until you attacked me.

You said I was whining, shitting on Linux, and didn't research, a well known issue. But you didn't solve to the supposedly well known issue.

Instead of solutions you just attacked me repeatedly for using older equipment, both for my video card, and sound.

You have provided no solutions, and offered nothing but ridicule, and insults to me for daring to expect Linux to work on older gear.

I'm the one who actually solved the video/audio issues.

You have a long standing pattern of attacking anyone who has any issue with Linux, and then interjecting you continual comments about how much Windows sucks.

Normally I want to see Linux succeed, but after interacting with you, I start to wish it would disappear if such toxic people are associated with it.

I gave you solutions, I stated that I'd come across the issue before, I stated that it was by no way good enough that such an issue was still present under Linux Mint Cinnamon and not once in your OP did you specifically ask for help - You were more interested in highlighting to the world your isolated issue and applying it to Linux as a whole implying, as stated by yourself, that "Linux is not ready for the desktop".

Of course this is not true, such annoying issues exist under both Linux and Windows. Yes, ongoing improvement to Linux is welcomed, it is also welcomed in relation to Windows. The problem with Windows is that there's little in the way of actual improvements to the OS as time goes on.

Anyway, just installed Linux Mint 17.2 (not 17.3) with no updates deliberately trying to see just how had Linux is for the layman to install and take note of any potential graphical issues using this 9600GT on a busted PC. So far no issues. I've still got vanilla Ubuntu 16.04 and Ubuntu Gnome 16.04 to test - I'm sticking with Ubuntu variants as that's where the support base is largest and that's the branch most newcomers will most likely use.

Keep throwing down that pop corn Bigdogchris, I'm not done yet!

 

[auntjemima]

His narrative is consistent, I'll admit that. If you have no problems, he will high five you. If you say Linux has an issue he will say he tried the same identical thing and had no issue. If it's a common issue he will say Windows has its problems too.

Consistent at least.

 

[Snowdog]

His narrative is consistent, I'll admit that. If you have no problems, he will high five you. If you say Linux has an issue he will say he tried the same identical thing and had no issue. If it's a common issue he will say Windows has its problems too.

Consistent at least.

Yeah, I forgot about the "it works for me" answer to everything.

 

[BulletDust]

Yeah, I forgot about the "it works for me" answer to everything.

Hang on.

Right now I'm deliberately trying to replicate your issue on the same card. I've just installed Nvidia-340 via the GUI and I have no composition options in Nvidia X Server and I think I know why - Right now I'm working on my solution, not that you appear interested in resolving anything.

In relation to my narrative, I really like the way a predominantly Windows user applies issues like blanket statements covering the whole of Linux and only applying to Linux, basically assuming that Linux users have standards that can't possibly compare to picky Windows users!

Still no tearing or rubberbanding under Linux Mint Cinnamon, going to install some applications that rely on Windowed GPU acceleration and see how I go.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just reporting the truth as I see it! I wouldn't dream of applying my findings OS wide though.

 

[heatlesssun]

As a long term HTPC user, BD+ playback is unreliable at best under Windows, 3D or not.

That's just utter BS. I do it all of the time with no problem with Windows 10 and PowerDVD.

 

[BulletDust]

That's just utter BS. I do it all of the time with no problem with Windows 10 and PowerDVD.

Good for you! Looks like there's two individuals with the same narative!

Anyway, I'm interested in working out the issue at hand and have no desire to watch 3D Bluray on my desktop PC of all things. In fact I'm not interested in the failure that was 3D Bluray - Period.

 

[Frobozz]

You guys need to submit some bug reports. Try to make the world a better place.

 

[MrCrispy]

If your position is that Linux is as easy to install/use on the desktop as Windows 10 for your average non technical user, I disagree and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. In fact I've posted the 'problems with Linux on desktop' link which is quite comprehensive but its been ignored.

This isn't a Windows vs Linux debate much as people try to turn it into one. Both can happily coexist. Linux is a fantastic achievement, frankly it runs most of the Internet anyway so it doesn't really matter what we debate here. I would like nothing more than for it to be successful on the desktop and offer a viable alternative for common folk. There are many others who believe the path to that is via standardized HAL layers and binary compatible drivers, and I agree. Qt vs Gtl is another example - how many years has this cost adoption? There are even people posting on r/linux and the mailing lists who think Ubuntu should have continued with Unity.

 

[ChadD]

Except this isn't that case. This seems to hit just about every NVidia user that doesn't set ForceCompositionPipeline is potentially hit with this. The drivers for my card work fine with this set as well. It is just more difficult to discover how to set this with my card.

Also your math is bad. The card/GPU chip was only released Oct 28-2007, Slightly less than 10 years...

Any card using the older version of the nvidia unified drivers is ancient. Simple as that. The card you are running was the last of that generations (G80) respins. (edit... ok I missed the post that states the 9000s may have been yet another respin )Yes the tech on the silicon was designed at least 11 years ago.

Lets stop pretending its anything close to a current card.... you could buy one used for 40 bucks 6 years back. I wouldn't try an install any modern OS on that card today and blame the OS when I ran into issues.... it just makes zero logical sense. I have setup plenty of systems with Nvidia hardware... and honestly if I was installing a Linux system on a 10 year old card my LAST choice would be KDE, as I know its using a higher OpenGL version then a card of that vintage would be capable of using. Last time I installed KDE it was on a 750 ti (not an expensive card and not brand new) zero issues smooth as butter.

All your issues has proven as far as Linux goes.... is Nvidia doesn't support cards using their Older Unified drivers as well as they support them in windows. So there it is... if you are going to continue using that 9-10-11 year old card (whatever # we want to agree on) stick to windows, or use a different Linux DE, I believe some options where floated. Up to you really if you wish to stick with Windows go for it... when you try Linux again in a couple years and come back to post about how Linux is still terrible I hope I don't have to point out that your now using a 15 year old GPU.

 

[ChadD]

I found KDE to be a lot more full featured than Gnome. In Gnome you have to get a bunch of extensions to get a usable desktop, the default is very barebones without even a list of running apps (like taskbar, dock etc). And Gnome has a philosophy of not exposing any configuration, if you need it it has to be done via cmdline. But it does have better animations.

The whole thing is unfortunate. Linix should have gone with Qt vs Gtk, all the fears over Qt not being open source etc at the time turned out to be bs, and now we have 2 competing toolkits and standards with no hope of unification. At least Ubuntu dropped stupid Unity. I've seen a lot of articles about how they should've gone with Kde vs Gnome and I agree.

Gnome is stripped down for a reason... it is the main DE used in most commercial distros. Its simply easier to not add a ton of settings that need to be disabled. Doing it the other way around.

Extensions are super easy to install via https://extensions.gnome.org/ The first thing you want to do is install Gnome Tweak Tool... and you won't need to use the command line for anything. (many user friendly gnome distros (not RHEL or SUSE) will have the Tweak tool installed by default).

GTK is beloved with good reason. They don't use the same programming language one is C the other is C++ you will never get every developer everywhere to agree on one over the other. They also don't need to. Its not like every windows programmer is required to use visual basic right ? The number of GUI and other frameworks for both windows linux mac ect number way more then just 2. Python, Java, VB, .net, silverlight, Tensor, windows forms.... frameworks are numerous for all Operating systems... Linux is believe it or not unique in that the majority of Linux software use one of 2 main GUI frameworks. Finding one windows machine anywhere that has software only using one framework is impossible... and yes all those libraries are sitting in the w32 directory and all over the place frankly because MS has no universally respected file structure.

Do a bit of reading on GUI tool kits... Windows is the most fragmented OS for programmers in history. Linux has mostly narrowed things down to 2 very different tool kits, that use different programming languages... of course the end result is almost identical that is sort of the point. How they get their isn't the same just as a windows programmer creating a .net application and using windows form for the gui isn't going to be identical to another company that uses java and javafx for its gui. Both are going to need a bunch of library files and both are going to install em to run.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_widget_toolkits

 

[B00nie]

Can we not bring privacy into this? The masses use and worship Facebook every minute who are a far far worse privacy violator than Microsoft will ever be and no one cares. No one is up in arms and they all know, but couldn't care less.

But MS as big bad evil is a convenient narrative.

Let me ask you, do you think Linux has no adoption on desktop due to real issues or do you think it's just a conspiracy theory?

The masses are idiots and it's no excuse for data harvesting.