Linux performance still a let down on desktop.

[BulletDust]

Fair point, but not everyone is looking to run Linux full time and people do experiment. And it's not like people like that aren't looking got help, but no, they aren't hardcore Linux fans and when you see people constantly praise how easy it is to setup and use Linux, issues that take time and research and dealing with various attitudes, again, some people just do it for their experimental purposes and when they say "Hey, here's an issue" and it is a real issue, well there are other things to do besides experiment with desktop Linux.

Different people will see it different ways and that's driven by individual wants and needs. I do a lot of different things with my PCs and it's not that I'm looking for a Windows clone but I'm not that interested in something that doesn't handle things I need and want on my PCs that Windows does well. Most people are interested in tossing out everything that works for something that may have it's own strengths but requires tons of time, not just dealing with the OS but applications as well.

For some it's not a big deal. For others that's a HUGE effort and no amount of help will make it simple or even practical.

In my experience on a considerable number of machines, it's no harder to install/setup than Windows. The odd thing here is that as a user of everything I'll be classed as somehow exaggerating while the prominently Windows user usually gets praised as posting facts even though it's obvious that you encounter frustrating problems from time to time under all operating systems - Furthermore, their comments are classed as fact for no reason other than the fact that they're predominantly a Windows user - The logic is backwards.

 

[ChadD]

Some of you just really want Linux to seem like a big mess. That's cool if you prefer windows continue using it... no Linux people are forcing you to switch. If you feel windows just installs easier and you are fine enough with MS as a company to overlook all the things people complain about in regards to Windows (including hardware support).. that's cool... I judge not some of you are windows folks, I know people that wear socks with sandles, vote for crazy right wing nut jobs, and do all manner of things I shake my head at... but I can still get along with em. I don't have to agree with you. lol

If your going to install Linux or Windows 10 or any other OS really on older hardware... hey things will likely be fine but could also be a PITA. If you are unable to trouble shoot and solve such issues... I would suggest if you really do want to run Linux, buy from System76 or Dell, if not and you still hate windows Apple would be glad to sell you an easy no issue machine as well.

If your not willing to solve issues wth are you doing installing any newer OS on old hardware. (cause its not like Win 10 installs like a dream on every machine in the world... these very forums prove that isn't the case either) Still glad to hear Win 10 installed for you no issues... hope everything works well. I don't know if your going to try another distro or not... if you do perhaps try something more main stream with a gnome 3 DE. I know some people love KDE, but in my experience at least it hasn't been all that well supported the last few years... and I know it can be a resource hog in general.

 

[BulletDust]

Some of you just really want Linux to seem like a big mess. That's cool if you prefer windows continue using it... no Linux people are forcing you to switch. If you feel windows just installs easier and you are fine enough with MS as a company to overlook all the things people complain about in regards to Windows (including hardware support).. that's cool... I judge not some of you are windows folks, I know people that wear socks with sandles, vote for crazy right wing nut jobs, and do all manner of things I shake my head at... but I can still get along with em. I don't have to agree with you. lol

If your going to install Linux or Windows 10 or any other OS really on older hardware... hey things will likely be fine but could also be a PITA. If you are unable to trouble shoot and solve such issues... I would suggest if you really do want to run Linux, buy from System76 or Dell, if not and you still hate windows Apple would be glad to sell you an easy no issue machine as well.

If your not willing to solve issues wth are you doing installing any newer OS on old hardware. (cause its not like Win 10 installs like a dream on every machine in the world... these very forums prove that isn't the case either)

Totally agreed.

 

[heatlesssun]

Some of you just really want Linux to seem like a big mess. That's cool if you prefer windows continue using it... no Linux people are forcing you to switch. If you feel windows just installs easier and you are fine enough with MS as a company to overlook all the things people complain about in regards to Windows (including hardware support).. that's cool... I judge not some of you are windows folks, I know people that wear socks with sandles, vote for crazy right wing nut jobs, and do all manner of things I shake my head at... but I can still get along with em. I don't have to agree with you. lol

Installing an OS overall isn't the issue for me with Linux. As much as people will bash me and Microsoft, the Microsoft branded devices are much easier to setup under Linux than my sig rig. Because the Surface devices are much simpler. But even in the case where the install isn't problematic, if you use a pen with a Surface device, Linux supports the input method but only at a basic mouse pointer. And that's the thing with desktop Linux. Not a mess, just not enough people using it for all kinds of stuff. Desktop Linux has tons of distros and this and that but what it needs are top line quality applications more than anything else.

You can generalize that people don't need these apps but that's a huge deal for any platform, without a wide variety of apps people just aren't going to be that interested.

 

[BulletDust]

Installing an OS overall isn't the issue for me with Linux. As much as people will bash me and Microsoft, the Microsoft branded devices are much easier to setup under Linux than my sig rig. Because the Surface devices are much simpler. But even in the case where the install isn't problematic, if you use a pen with a Surface device, Linux supports the input method but only at a basic mouse pointer. And that's the thing with desktop Linux. Not a mess, just not enough people using it for all kinds of stuff. Desktop Linux has tons of distros and this and that but what it needs are top line quality applications more than anything else.

You can generalize that people don't need these apps but that's a huge deal for any platform, without a wide variety of apps people just aren't going to be that interested.

Where personal usage case allows it people can use Linux. As you know I see Windows 10 as a mess.

 

[MrCrispy]

What does it matter if the video card was released 6 months or 10 years ago? What's important is if it has working drivers, open source or not, and whether they are on a server the OS knows how to tall to (repos in Linux, or Windows update). Once its in there stuff never gets removed. And there are plenty of people with all sorts of graphics issues on modern cards and chipsets, its one of the most common issues in Linux. And all this happens despite there being a standard protocol (X and in future Wayland) shared by every distro, because they still can't share drivers or configuration and have no standard way of doing these things. I posted about this earlier but of course the standard response is 'its Linux, we don't need any standardization or APIs' !!

I just spent the last 2 days installing and configuring Fedora with Gnome, a totally different distro with new package manager, new UI, new things to learn, it was fun. And Linux installs on almost a decade old Thinkpads are the easiest OS installs I've ever done, stuff just seems to work on those. On my modern Dell, Linux still has no idea how to use multi fingure gestures on the touchpad, touchscreen and the graphics seems better because Fedora uses Wayland but its also not as stable.

Linux is an intimidating experience - from the installer with scary language about lvm, sda1/2, partition managers, logging on and learning package managers (each distro is different, and the GUI frontends often fail), the differences in admin users (sudo on Ubuntu is very different from how it works in Fedora where you need su -c) its a lot to learn - I would not expect everyday users to go through this.

While a new user can do this with a lot of patience and googling around, it really needs to be much much simpler for a desktop OS.

 

[ChadD]

Desktop Linux has tons of distros and this and that but what it needs are top line quality applications more than anything else.

You can generalize that people don't need these apps but that's a huge deal for any platform, without a wide variety of apps people just aren't going to be that interested.

WTH are you talking about ? Seriously. What does pen support on your MS branded hardware have to do with applications ?

Where has anyone claimed Linux is lacking software Outside of playstation ported AAA games ?

Apps apps apps.... we have been around this tree 1001 times. 90% of the software average people use is opensource Linux developed software at this point.... and you know it. Pro stuff runs fine in Linux and that improves all the time... in some high end segments such as VFX Linux is the target OS for all the major vendors.

So we have shifted gears now from... hardware support for 10 year old Nvidia cards, to touch screen support on MICROSOFT Surface products... and now back again to the apps just ain't their.

I completely get why bullet accuses you of moving goal posts all the time. lol

The "apps" what a stupid term for Desktop software btw are their. Hardware support is there. (its no better or worse then MS support in my experience... drivers for older hardware in newer windows versions is likewise flaky and at the whim of the manufacturers that no longer have in$entive to support it. Its an issue with MS as well... people just tend to buy new machines instead of upgrade further then 1 version of windows.)

What is difficult is installation.... yes we all agree on that. It should not be difficult for people that are experienced computer users (in general the type of people here reading this).... will it install flawlessly on every possible hardware config in the world, of course not expectations folks. People seem to be expecting to never encounter anything requiring tweaking. Yes Linux will require some tweaking for power users... hell anyone that claims they install stock Windows 10 and tweak nothing, leaving it spying on them and running cortana and whatever the hell else MS defaults on their install these days is FULL OF SHIT.

 

[BulletDust]

What does it matter if the video card was released 6 months or 10 years ago? What's important is if it has working drivers, open source or not, and whether they are on a server the OS knows how to tall to (repos in Linux, or Windows update).

Well you'd better complain to Nvidia, because the support of an 11yo 8800GT has very little to do with Linux.

Furthermore, learning something new is always intimidating, Windows was no different in the day.

 

[ChadD]

What does it matter if the video card was released 6 months or 10 years ago? What's important is if it has working drivers, open source or not, and whether they are on a server the OS knows how to tall to (repos in Linux, or Windows update). Once its in there stuff never gets removed. And there are plenty of people with all sorts of graphics issues on modern cards and chipsets, its one of the most common issues in Linux. And all this happens despite there being a standard protocol (X and in future Wayland) shared by every distro, because they still can't share drivers or configuration and have no standard way of doing these things. I posted about this earlier but of course the standard response is 'its Linux, we don't need any standardization or APIs' !!

I just spent the last 2 days installing and configuring Fedora with Gnome, a totally different distro with new package manager, new UI, new things to learn, it was fun. And Linux installs on almost a decade old Thinkpads are the easiest OS installs I've ever done, stuff just seems to work on those. On my modern Dell, Linux still has no idea how to use multi fingure gestures on the touchpad, touchscreen and the graphics seems better because Fedora uses Wayland but its also not as stable.

Linux is an intimidating experience - from the installer with scary language about lvm, sda1/2, partition managers, logging on and learning package managers (each distro is different, and the GUI frontends often fail), the differences in admin users (sudo on Ubuntu is very different from how it works in Fedora where you need su -c) its a lot to learn - I would not expect everyday users to go through this.

While a new user can do this with a lot of patience and googling around, it really needs to be much much simpler for a desktop OS.

You clearly still don't really understand how Linux works.

Linux only works because of standards. This card uses ancient Nvidia drivers that they no longer support or update outside of security fixes. The latest Windows driver for that card is from last Dec... the latest Linux driver for that card is from Feb this year.

His issue has nothing to do with X or Wayland... he choose a Desktop env, that uses an OpenGL composition... in order to use that feature of that DE you need to have hardware that supports OpenGL 3... which he doesn't. So why would there be an expectation that it would work without some form of tweaking.

No one has claimed that Learning linux inside and out is easy. Its not windows... it doesn't work like windows... it doesn't behave like windows... it doesn't have a terrible driver system like windows. It isn't windows. It is far better... but it is still very much different.

If you consider yourself a Windows power user... no your not going to pick up Linux for the first time and 10 min later be a Linux power user. You are going to have to have to learn your way around yes. For average users that are not windows power users... no they shouldn't be installing Linux on their Windows boxes. There is nothing stopping them from buying Ubuntu machines from say Dell they would have zero issues trust me. They don't have to worry about XFS, or EXT4... or which drive sda1 is when Dell does it for them. If you want to be a power users though... ya its not rocket science but you will have to do plenty of reading and understand what Linux is and how it works. I don't think there is anything wrong with people learning a few basics about how their computer works. (if they aren't in for that though, they should likely not bother with Linux)

 

[Snowdog]

You clearly still don't really understand how Linux works.

Linux only works because of standards. This card uses ancient Nvidia drivers that they no longer support or update outside of security fixes. The latest Windows driver for that card is from last Dec... the latest Linux driver for that card is from Feb this year.

4 months old drivers are Ancient? You really need to stop pretending that screen tearing was just an old card issue.

GTX970:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...reen-tearing-on-nvidia-with-linux.7213/page=3

I have been struggling with this issue for months across all the different desktop environments I tried (KDE, GNOME, Cinnamon, Unity), and it has caused me a fair amount of headaches and stress, so I am pleased to finally find a solution. It's not perfect, slightly annoying, but also quite useful too.

 

[BulletDust]

It's not the age of the drivers that's relevant, it's the age of the card and the fact that Nvidia are obviously not interested on wasting resources making sure that OGL 3.0 software rendering works perfectly on an 11yo card. Chances are that while the 8800GT is supported under the latest Nvidia drivers, the actual drivers have seen no ongoing development for an 11yo card since drivers were released under Linux supporting it - Which in itself is by no means surprising.

If you insist on using an 11yo card under Linux and the Nvidia drivers don't support what you expect them to support due to priorities on behalf of Nvidia and the open source drivers are crippled due to a lack of support by Nvidia, than you have no choice but to use Windows. However don't sit there and claim that Linux is not ready for the desktop due to issues with an 11yo card as chances are you will have compatibility issues under certain circumstances running the same card under Windows 10 - They may not show up straight away, but run the latest games/software applications and soon enough you may very well have problems.

11 years is a technological eternity!

You can Google search issues under Windows 10 that affect a percentage of users, that by no means indicates Windows 10 is not ready for the desktop. A little perspective and reasoning isn't out of the question here.

 

[heatlesssun]

Where has anyone claimed Linux is lacking software Outside of playstation ported AAA games ?

Plenty of people who aren't hardcore Linux folks.

Apps apps apps.... we have been around this tree 1001 times. 90% of the software average people use is opensource Linux developed software at this point.... and you know it.

So what data do you have on the most popular PC apps? I can't remember where I saw this but I think it's Chrome, then iTunes and then Office. Look we can go about this forever, there's just a ton of Windows only or macOS & Windows software out there and to predict with great certainty who will want to use whatever, good luck with that. But I've said on plenty of occasions that average users probably would be ok with Linux as long as that's what they stuck to. But certainly if you buy a PC and spend good money on it, you might start to get frustrated that you can't use a lot of stuff out there. You know, like Windows 10 -S as call it.

Pro stuff runs fine in Linux and that improves all the time... in some high end segments such as VFX Linux is the target OS for all the major vendors.

No saying it doesn't. Windows doesn't sit still either.

So we have shifted gears now from... hardware support for 10 year old Nvidia cards, to touch screen support on MICROSOFT Surface products... and now back again to the apps just ain't their.

But there's a common theme here. People like you will say "Linux is awesome, easy to install, you only use Windows because you're a shill or stupid and no one uses Windows only or applications not available on Linux." Then reality hits. Over the years there's just been an inclination for some desktop Linux folks to oversell it and I think that's not helped with Linux adoption.

What is difficult is installation.... yes we all agree on that.

Not necessarily, it all comes down to the hardware one is using. Be it Windows of Linux generalization of how well installation works on a gazillion different configurations of hardware is meaningless.

 

[Snowdog]

It's not the age of the drivers that's relevant, it's the age of the card and the fact that Nvidia are obviously not interested on wasting resources making sure that OGL 3.0 software rendering works perfectly on an 11yo card. Chances are that while the 8800GT is supported under the latest Nvidia drivers, the actual drivers have seen no ongoing development for an 11yo card since drivers were released under Linux supporting it - Which in itself is by no means surprising.

If you insist on using an 11yo card under Linux and the Nvidia drivers don't support what you expect them to support due to priorities on behalf of Nvidia and the open source drivers are crippled due to a lack of support by Nvidia, than you have no choice but to use Windows. However don't sit there and claim that Linux is not ready for the desktop due to issues with an 11yo card as chances are you will have compatibility issues under certain circumstances running the same card under Windows 10 - They may not show up straight away, but run the latest games/software applications and soon enough you may very well have problems.

11 years is a technological eternity!

You can Google search issues under Windows 10 that affect a percentage of users, that by no means indicates Windows 10 is not ready for the desktop.

Except this isn't that case. This seems to hit just about every NVidia user that doesn't set ForceCompositionPipeline is potentially hit with this. The drivers for my card work fine with this set as well. It is just more difficult to discover how to set this with my card.

Also your math is bad. The card/GPU chip was only released Oct 28-2007, Slightly less than 10 years...

 

[BulletDust]

Except this isn't that case. This seems to hit just about every NVidia user that doesn't set ForceCompositionPipeline is potentially hit with this. The drivers for my card work fine with this set as well. It is just more difficult to discover how to set this with my card.

Also your math is bad. The card/GPU chip was only released Oct 28-2007, Slightly less than 10 years...

I run only Nvidia in my main PC and under Ubuntu MATE I haven't had a single issue, scrolling is perfect and OGL 3.0 renders fine in hardware, even Linux Mint Cinnamon was perfect once I disabled windows composition. This issue doesn't affect every Nvidia user out there by a long shot, certainly no more than Windows updates affect every Windows 10 user out there.

[EDIT] Yes, force composition pipeline needs to be set, hence the reason why I posted screenshots of it in the first place - So what?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...0l2j0j69i60.3055j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[MrCrispy]

You clearly still don't really understand how Linux works.

Linux only works because of standards. This card uses ancient Nvidia drivers that they no longer support or update outside of security fixes. The latest Windows driver for that card is from last Dec... the latest Linux driver for that card is from Feb this year.

His issue has nothing to do with X or Wayland... he choose a Desktop env, that uses an OpenGL composition... in order to use that feature of that DE you need to have hardware that supports OpenGL 3... which he doesn't. So why would there be an expectation that it would work without some form of tweaking.

No one has claimed that Learning linux inside and out is easy. Its not windows... it doesn't work like windows... it doesn't behave like windows... it doesn't have a terrible driver system like windows. It isn't windows. It is far better... but it is still very much different.

If you consider yourself a Windows power user... no your not going to pick up Linux for the first time and 10 min later be a Linux power user. You are going to have to have to learn your way around yes. For average users that are not windows power users... no they shouldn't be installing Linux on their Windows boxes. There is nothing stopping them from buying Ubuntu machines from say Dell they would have zero issues trust me. They don't have to worry about XFS, or EXT4... or which drive sda1 is when Dell does it for them. If you want to be a power users though... ya its not rocket science but you will have to do plenty of reading and understand what Linux is and how it works. I don't think there is anything wrong with people learning a few basics about how their computer works. (if they aren't in for that though, they should likely not bother with Linux)

Which DE are you referring to, Cinnamon, LXDE, XFCE? Is it mentioned on any of their pages that you need a OGL 3.0 compliant card? This would also be a trivial thing to check in the OS itself and warn the user, not allow them to switch. e.g. when you try to switch to an unsupported resolution/refesh etc, you get a msg asking if everything looks ok otherwise the system will revert the changes. Why doesn't Linux do this? It would be even simpler since the OS has complete knowledge of all the software updates and knows about repos.

Also Linux has nothing equivalent to rollback of drivers, or at a system level something like SFC which protects critical files.

Graphics issues on Linux are common, please stop saying you personally have no issues and just see how many people do, thats why its such a common search term. Don't compare it to Windows Update which is a much bigger thing and I bet it still affects less %age of users. Having usable graphics/display is pretty much the most essential thing for a desktop OS. Comparing them and saying Linux is ready for desktop use by normal people is ridiculous!

Take your e.g. - if force composition pipeline has to be set, why isn't it by default? Its because Linux was never targeted to casual users, its meant for expert people who aren't afraid to configure stuff by hand and actually enjoy doing so. The companies using Linux that actually do have customers lock stuff down and make a ton of changes themselves (such as RHEL backporting kernel fixes), which are laughed at by normal Linux users as being against the philosophy.

 

[BulletDust]

Which DE are you referring to, Cinnamon, LXDE, XFCE? Is it mentioned on any of their pages that you need a OGL 3.0 compliant card? This would also be a trivial thing to check in the OS itself and warn the user, not allow them to switch. e.g. when you try to switch to an unsupported resolution/refesh etc, you get a msg asking if everything looks ok otherwise the system will revert the changes. Why doesn't Linux do this? It would be even simpler since the OS has complete knowledge of all the software updates and knows about repos.

Also Linux has nothing equivalent to rollback of drivers, or at a system level something like SFC which protects critical files.

Graphics issues on Linux are common, please stop saying you personally have no issues and just see how many people do, thats why its such a common search term. Don't compare it to Windows Update which is a much bigger thing and I bet it still affects less %age of users. Having usable graphics/display is pretty much the most essential thing for a desktop OS. Comparing them and saying Linux is ready for desktop use by normal people is ridiculous!

Take your e.g. - if force composition pipeline has to be set, why isn't it by default? Its because Linux was never targeted to casual users, its meant for expert people who aren't afraid to configure stuff by hand and actually enjoy doing so. The companies using Linux that actually do have customers lock stuff down and make a ton of changes themselves (such as RHEL backporting kernel fixes), which are laughed at by normal Linux users as being against the philosophy.

You do realise that as a predominantly Windows user trying Linux you're telling a person that predominantly uses Linux that their claims of little to no issues running the OS of their choice are all bullshit, are you aware of that?

And then as Linux users we get told that we aren't helpful enough? Where's the reasoning in that?

"Why isn't desktop composition enabled by default" - Are you serious? Why isn't the sleeping of network shares disabled by default under Windows? This is just ranting and nitpicking now....

 

[BulletDust]

Also Linux has nothing equivalent to rollback of drivers, or at a system level something like SFC which protects critical files.

Hold down shift at boot select your prior kernel in Grub? In the case of Nvidia - Install the older drivers over top of the newer ones?

As for SFC and the protection of critical files (I assume you mean system files), I can assure you that critical system files are protected better under a Unix based OS than an NT based OS - There's a reason why malware can bring down an entire Windows install when you can simply remove malware under macOS with no ill effects whatsoever.

I don't see many Linux users using RedHat Enterprise and the fact remains that if you don't like what RedHat are doing use a distro that fits more in line with your philosophy.

 

[BulletDust]

You clearly still don't really understand how Linux works.

Linux only works because of standards. This card uses ancient Nvidia drivers that they no longer support or update outside of security fixes. The latest Windows driver for that card is from last Dec... the latest Linux driver for that card is from Feb this year.

His issue has nothing to do with X or Wayland... he choose a Desktop env, that uses an OpenGL composition... in order to use that feature of that DE you need to have hardware that supports OpenGL 3... which he doesn't. So why would there be an expectation that it would work without some form of tweaking.

No one has claimed that Learning linux inside and out is easy. Its not windows... it doesn't work like windows... it doesn't behave like windows... it doesn't have a terrible driver system like windows. It isn't windows. It is far better... but it is still very much different.

If you consider yourself a Windows power user... no your not going to pick up Linux for the first time and 10 min later be a Linux power user. You are going to have to have to learn your way around yes. For average users that are not windows power users... no they shouldn't be installing Linux on their Windows boxes. There is nothing stopping them from buying Ubuntu machines from say Dell they would have zero issues trust me. They don't have to worry about XFS, or EXT4... or which drive sda1 is when Dell does it for them. If you want to be a power users though... ya its not rocket science but you will have to do plenty of reading and understand what Linux is and how it works. I don't think there is anything wrong with people learning a few basics about how their computer works. (if they aren't in for that though, they should likely not bother with Linux)

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why most users of the [H] forums cannot install and successfully use Linux considering compatible hardware that's not ten years old. The issue is they aren't trying Linux to successfully install and use it, their agenda is something completely different.

 

[Vermillion]

What does it matter if the video card was released 6 months or 10 years ago? What's important is if it has working drivers, open source or not, and whether they are on a server the OS knows how to tall to (repos in Linux, or Windows update). Once its in there stuff never gets removed. And there are plenty of people with all sorts of graphics issues on modern cards and chipsets, its one of the most common issues in Linux. And all this happens despite there being a standard protocol (X and in future Wayland) shared by every distro, because they still can't share drivers or configuration and have no standard way of doing these things. I posted about this earlier but of course the standard response is 'its Linux, we don't need any standardization or APIs' !!

I just spent the last 2 days installing and configuring Fedora with Gnome, a totally different distro with new package manager, new UI, new things to learn, it was fun. And Linux installs on almost a decade old Thinkpads are the easiest OS installs I've ever done, stuff just seems to work on those. On my modern Dell, Linux still has no idea how to use multi fingure gestures on the touchpad, touchscreen and the graphics seems better because Fedora uses Wayland but its also not as stable.

Linux is an intimidating experience - from the installer with scary language about lvm, sda1/2, partition managers, logging on and learning package managers (each distro is different, and the GUI frontends often fail), the differences in admin users (sudo on Ubuntu is very different from how it works in Fedora where you need su -c) its a lot to learn - I would not expect everyday users to go through this.

While a new user can do this with a lot of patience and googling around, it really needs to be much much simpler for a desktop OS.

I actually had a lot of fun testing all those other Linux distros in the other thread. It's interesting seeing the differences and seeing which distros actually do something different.

I think the installation of Linux and the DE now are plenty easy. The ease of installation of Arch on Antergos and your DE of choice is really damned impressive. The problem is simple things like drivers and compositors that shouldn't be something we even have to talk about. For example I don't see why Ubuntu MATE doesn't install the AMDGPU open source driver instead of the ATI open source driver automatically and set itself to use compton instead of Marco. I say compton because it's easier to configure. Compiz is more powerful but it can also be a bitch. Or at the very least at the initial welcome screen (almost all the distros I played with had one) have a blurb about it so people know.

4 months old drivers are Ancient? You really need to stop pretending that screen tearing was just an old card issue.

GTX970:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...reen-tearing-on-nvidia-with-linux.7213/page=3

That's even more mind boggling to me. I had no idea that issue existed. I've only ever heard people praise Nvidia's proprietary driver. Yet, after all the talk here about it all I can think about is I'd rather run the AMDGPU driver on an older AMD GPU simply because it'll be a better experience and that's sad.

I run only Nvidia in my main PC and under Ubuntu MATE I haven't had a single issue, scrolling is perfect and OGL 3.0 renders fine in hardware, even Linux Mint Cinnamon was perfect once I disabled windows composition. This issue doesn't affect every Nvidia user out there by a long shot, certainly no more than Windows updates affect every Windows 10 user out there.

[EDIT] Yes, force composition pipeline needs to be set, hence the reason why I posted screenshots of it in the first place - So what?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...0l2j0j69i60.3055j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

That's the problem though. If the user needs to enable that fine. But it needs to be communicated better. A new user shouldn't have to hunt that shit down. ChadD said something in my thread about all the distros that's pretty accurate. People who give Linux a shot try one of the popular distros like Mint Cinnamon. They use that for awhile and then a good chunk of them most likely move on to something else because they learn that they can do even more with other DEs or other distros like Arch and it's derivatives.

Look at it this way. If Heatlesssun loads up Mint Cinnamon on his computer the sheer power of it will negate the issues that Cinnamon and Muffin have. However, 99% of the population doesn't have a PC like Heatlesssun does.

So look at the E7470 I'm using right this second.



It's more than modern enough so that I shouldn't have tearing any ANY distro. Yet, out of the box there's plenty of tearing on multiple distros. I know how to fix it though. I also WANTED to move to Linux years ago so the tearing I saw back then with Xubuntu was fixed by me because I was willing to put forth the effort. Not everyone will be like me though.

Now what if this laptop had a discrete NV GPU? If I was a new Linux user how the fuck would I know that I need to enable the "force composition pipeline"? As a new user coming from Windows I expect things to just work. Now if there was a pop-up that said "Hey, you need to do this" that is just fine. The argument "Linux isn't Windows" isn't good enough here. You have to target the user.

The Linux community should WANT to make the Linux experience as smooth as possible because not all users looking at Linux will be like me. They all don't want to spend time figuring out why there's tearing. They want it to just work. As long as it "just works" you'll have plenty of users who choose a distro and never change. You'll also have plenty of users who choose a distro and use it for awhile. They will then move on to a different distro that meets their needs. However, if the Linux community doesn't nurture those two types of users it will never gain any ground.

You want developers to give Linux more AAA titles? Marketing Linux to those two types of people will help that.

Look I love Linux. I just see where there's plenty of places for improvement which would only help Linux in the grand scheme.

 

[heatlesssun]

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why most users of the [H] forums cannot install and successfully use Linux considering compatible hardware that's not ten years old. The issue is they aren't trying Linux to successfully install and use it, their agenda is something completely different.

No Linux users here that I know of have ever setup Steam VR with it. But going into I knew it would be iffy because a Linux guru who I think is actually reasonable when through the process and pointed out that it wasn't simple. Some of you think that you know everything about everything. There's plenty of Windows users who have been in PC tech all their lives. I don't claim to be a Linux guru but it's clear from all that's out there to research that yeah, it's not a panacea. It's has it's problems like everything else. And it's not necessarily superior to Windows on the desktop depending on needs and wants.

I get why Linux fans are into it. No evil corporation controlling it, no telemetry, adware or attempts to monetize it internally, it's free with source code and as a result it highly customizable. It's also immune to Windows malware, how immune it would be to malware with serious attempts made to compromise it daily is debatable but I'm will to give it a significant leg up on that regardless.

But yeah, it's not got much market share in the desktop space and support is iffy. If there is support for something it's often from a 3rd party who might be into delivering a great product or not and then maybe someone else picks it up. And this issue has been a HUGE problem for a long time. Sure things are better but again, with the market share, progress can be slow. And yeah, the shear number of distros, a strength can be a weakness.

I'll probably go back and try to setup VR from scratch when Linux Steam VR is actually a production product. But when that will be who knows, looking to be sometime this year I'm guessing, perhaps with the release of Valves first party VR games that are in the works. But I know how that will play out with some Linux folks. "He's looking to fail." Well, no, just curious. But obviously Linux is not going to replace Windows for VR purposes anytime soon. But where it'll have problems, it's beta, it's this, it's that. Ok, sure got all that. But don't blame me just for trying something that you never have and saying I'm trying to fail. That's crap. I wouldn't waste my time trying to fail. Seriously.

 

[BulletDust]

That's the problem though. If the user needs to enable that fine. But it needs to be communicated better. A new user shouldn't have to hunt that shit down. ChadD said something in my thread about all the distros that's pretty accurate. People who give Linux a shot try one of the popular distros like Mint Cinnamon. They use that for awhile and then a good chunk of them most likely move on to something else because they learn that they can do even more with other DEs or other distros like Arch and it's derivatives

Hang on,

With all due respect you are biasing Windows more than just a little here.

Originally, I had to search for the fix for network shares sleeping under Windows and in my opinion that's just as important as graphics tearing. The so called issues being put forward here are no different to problems that are apparent under every OS, you cannot single Linux out in this regard - Especially on an enthusiast hardware forum of all things.

It's a check box, it's not that complicated unless you own an 8800GT (did the OP click the 'Advanced' button to highlight composition options?).

 

[BulletDust]

No Linux users here that I know of have ever setup Steam VR with it. But going into I knew it would be iffy because a Linux guru who I think is actually reasonable when through the process and pointed out that it wasn't simple. Some of you think that you know everything about everything. There's plenty of Windows users who have been in PC tech all their lives. I don't claim to be a Linux guru but it's clear from all that's out there to research that yeah, it's not a panacea. It's has it's problems like everything else. And it's not necessarily superior to Windows on the desktop depending on needs and wants.

I get why Linux fans are into it. No evil corporation controlling it, no telemetry, adware or attempts to monetize it internally, it's free with source code and as a result it highly customizable. It's also immune to Windows malware, how immune it would be to malware with serious attempts made to compromise it daily is debatable but I'm will to give it a significant leg up on that regardless.

But yeah, it's not got much market share in the desktop space and support is iffy. If there is support for something it's often from a 3rd party who might be into delivering a great product or not and then maybe someone else picks it up. And this issue has been a HUGE problem for a long time. Sure things are better but again, with the market share, progress can be slow. And yeah, the shear number of distros, a strength can be a weakness.

I'll probably go back and try to setup VR from scratch when Linux Steam VR is actually a production product. But when that will be who knows, looking to be sometime this year I'm guessing, perhaps with the release of Valves first party VR games that are in the works. But I know how that will play out with some Linux folks. "He's looking to fail." Well, no, just curious. But obviously Linux is not going to replace Windows for VR purposes anytime soon. But where it'll have problems, it's beta, it's this, it's that. Ok, sure got all that. But don't blame me just for trying something that you never have and saying I'm trying to fail. That's crap. I wouldn't waste my time trying to fail. Seriously.

Fuck, we're back to VR....

 

[Snowdog]

That's the problem though. If the user needs to enable that fine. But it needs to be communicated better. A new user shouldn't have to hunt that shit down. .

No user should have to hunt something like that down to make something as basic as dragging a window work correctly. While our local Linux boosters(ChadDust) like to blame me for using an older card, in reality the issue would have been identical with a newer card. At least for the first two days.

I posted on Sunday, and it wasn't until Tuesday in Post #34, that I figured out the solution that would have fixed it for a newer NVidia cards, that's still 2 days after I posted about the issue (another couple of days to figure out this was also though a different interface for my card). So really having an old card really didn't change much except giving ChadDust fodder for excuse making, and user blaming.

As before that was one of many issues. If it were only the GPU issue, I wouldn't be that concerned. Elementary was utter garbage, flaking out in multiple (crashes galore, buttons not working), I decided to let that pass and let it go as a non-mainstream distro, Mint also has quality issue (beyond the Compositor) that I gave it a pass for because I changed DEs so many times could cause issues, but finally in updated Vanilla Kubuntu, with GPU issue fixed, still had quality issues, that really put nails in the coffin for me.

 

[BulletDust]

OK, so I remembered I have an old POS Athlon based system in the workshop with the closest I can get to an 8800GT installed, that card being a 9600GT, and it already had Ubuntu MATE installed as it was a test mythTV server that I was trying with two stuffed USB ports and one channel of ram not working at all - As a tech you end up accumulating crap like this.

So I drag the machine out and boot it up on the bench, as you can see from the screenshots below the default driver was Nouveau - A point worth mentioning is that this driver worked just fine with no artifacting, corruption or tearing visible whatsoever:

Satisfied that there was absolutely no issue whatsoever to detract from the desktop experience of my very basic Linux install I proceeded to download and install the Nvidia 340.102 drivers as recommended by Nvidia for the 9600GT. Bear in mind that this is an install that has had no additional modification with the exception of a MythTV install whatsoever:

And all installed:

Once installed I rebooted the machine to give the Nvidia X Server settings a chance to configure as no options will be available under X Server Settings until a reboot is performed, it has to be said however that the drivers are at this stage running fine:

Memory issues relating to POS system out of junk pile:

Once the system had rebooted I tested for tearing under Firefox using the [H] Forums as a test (it's immediately evident on the [H] Forums), no tearing evident at all without 'Force Composition Pipeline' enabled. It has to be emphasised that my desktop PC requires this setting to be enabled to rectify tearing.

I then went into the Nvidia X Server Settings, clicked 'Advanced' under 'X Server Display Configuration' and lo and behold as expected there was the composition settings:

- Considering the 9xxx series of cards are closely related to the 8xxx series, I have no idea why composition settings weren't visable for the OP.

Tested again using the usual Firefox and [H] Forums, not a cracker of tearing evident at all. No artifacting and no corruption on the desktop whatsoever. My Mum could use this PC just fine.

So there you have it. The OP believed this to be an issue affecting Linux as a whole, I install Ubuntu from fresh on a half dead PC with 2GB of ram with no problems whatsoever using literally an identical graphics card. As a Linux user am I still exaggerating?

 

[MrCrispy]

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why most users of the [H] forums cannot install and successfully use Linux considering compatible hardware that's not ten years old. The issue is they aren't trying Linux to successfully install and use it, their agenda is something completely different.

I agree. But if someone has trouble with Linux, why is it assumed they have an agenda? There are a lot of things that are just assumed a new user should learn on their own, fairly technical ones, which no one actually bothers to explain on the many websites etc. There's a reason why there are newbie friendly distros such as Manjaro, Gecko, Mint whose developers go to great lengths to add settings, pick programs, defaults etc. But then a user posts about an issue and the invariable response is 'pick Arch/Debian/xxxx' which are meant for experts (relatively), because they are 'pure', and this neither helps the person or inspires confidence.

I posted about my issues with Intel graphics, searched everywhere and tried every solution posted. Nowhere was the fact that it might be related to power management mentioned, I happened to mention tlp and then it was pointed out as likely cause. A normal user would just give up long before.

Linux has made a ton of improvement, 99% of stuff just works. Its fun to learn something new. There are also known issues with Linux on desktop recognized by experts (I posted a link before) and that shouldn't be ignored.

 

[BulletDust]

I agree. But if someone has trouble with Linux, why is it assumed they have an agenda? There are a lot of things that are just assumed a new user should learn on their own, fairly technical ones, which no one actually bothers to explain on the many websites etc. There's a reason why there are newbie friendly distros such as Manjaro, Gecko, Mint whose developers go to great lengths to add settings, pick programs, defaults etc. But then a user posts about an issue and the invariable response is 'pick Arch/Debian/xxxx' which are meant for experts (relatively), because they are 'pure', and this neither helps the person or inspires confidence.

I posted about my issues with Intel graphics, searched everywhere and tried every solution posted. Nowhere was the fact that it might be related to power management mentioned, I happened to mention tlp and then it was pointed out as likely cause. A normal user would just give up long before.

Linux has made a ton of improvement, 99% of stuff just works. Its fun to learn something new. There are also known issues with Linux on desktop recognized by experts (I posted a link before) and that shouldn't be ignored.

In your case?

Because after you attempted to install Linux and encountered issues, even after I assisted in diagnosing the fault, which was entirely related to a software package you installed, you then proceeded to inform everyone in every thread you could that Linux is flawed with GPU acceleration issues under VLC and Firefox - - Even though you knew that the issue was related to a software package that you installed.

I say there's no issue with VLC and Firefox, you essentially imply I'm lying.

I've already tested CPU usage under VLC on my main PC, should I check it on this POS thing also? Bear in mind that this old nugget hasn't even been updated yet.

Picture distorted for copyright reasons, there's a perfect 1080p image under there:

 

[Snowdog]

- Considering the 9xxx series of cards are closely related to the 8xxx series, I have no idea why composition settings weren't viable for the OP.

Who knows, more Linux variation oddities, but it definitely was not available in my system:



BTW note a little thing called etiquette of not dumping full size images in the forum.

 

[BulletDust]

Who knows, more Linux variation oddities, but it definitely was not available in my system:

View attachment 27234

BTW note a little thing called etiquette of not dumping full size images in the forum.

All I know is that it's blatantly obvious that you are doing the best you can to dump on Linux.

Stop nitpicking, just stick to the discussion at hand. They're not full sized images. Hence when you hover over them you get a requester asking if you want the full sized image.

 

[Snowdog]

All I know is that it's blatantly obvious that you are doing the best you can to dump on Linux.

By telling the truth? You said or implied several times, that it was my fault for not clicking that checkbox, that is OBVIOUSLY not there on my system.

Stop nitpicking, just stick to the discussion at hand. They're not full sized images. Hence when you hover over them you get a requester asking if you want the full sized image.

Your images are still filling the screen even before they are maximized, so they are an ugly disruption in the forum.

 

[BulletDust]

By telling the truth? You said or implied several times, that it was my fault for not clicking that checkbox, that is OBVIOUSLY not there on my system.

Before I knew that it wasn't visible on your system.

Furthermore, you've got it working via Xorg and yet you're still complaining and making out that anyone that claims to have never had an issue with scrolling is just flat out exaggerating and that your claims are a reflection of Linux as a whole! Perhaps there is an issue with your GPU? Perhaps it isn't reference and you've found an issue under Linux that isn't present under Windows? Wouldn't be the first time I've encountered such issues on old non reference cards even under Windows.

If you want to work through the issues and try your best to use Linux that's fine - But you seem quite content just to dump on Linux. I'm not disputing that you don't have issues, but the way you so arrogantly assume it's an issue that affects Linux as a whole is just boggling.

The DE you're using is one of the most graphically demanding DE's out there!

 

[BulletDust]

In relation to the image sizing, I believe you're nitpicking, but for now on I will attempt to resize images. I can't do much about the fact that imgur doesn't reduce placeholder resolution low enough by default.

Personally I find your images too small and CBF clicking on them.

[EDIT] It appears Imgur have changed the size of placeholders making them much larger than they were in the past when Linked on webpages. The placeholders don't appear to distort the dimensions of the webpage, instead scaling to whatever dimensions are suitable for the device they're viewed on. I scaled the image below and considering the size of the original image the resulting placeholder dimension seems a lot better - Any smaller than that and image quality degrades to illegibility.

This is the size of the placeholders on my Nexus, the apparently 'oversized' images appear fine to me.

 

[SmokeRngs]

- Considering the 9xxx series of cards are closely related to the 8xxx series, I have no idea why composition settings weren't visable for the OP.

Actually, the 9xxx series was literally just rebranded 8xxx series GPUs in most cases. In the few that weren't direct rebrands, the differences were not architecture changes.

 

[BulletDust]

Actually, the 9xxx series was literally just rebranded 8xxx series GPUs in most cases. In the few that weren't direct rebrands, the differences were not architecture changes.

I vaguely remembered that but wasn't sure, thanks for confirming.

One thing people might find interesting is that in all the years I've been running Linux I've never once had a kernel panic. On my Windows machine I actually know how to induce a blue screen on boot.

 

[BulletDust]

I don't know how well this is going to work, but to the best of my ability I am going to try and demonstrate just how smooth and tear free scrolling really is on my main Linux system. Half the way through the video I switch workspaces to compare Firefox to Chrome:

 

[Snowdog]

Before I knew that it wasn't visible on your system.

Furthermore, you've got it working via Xorg and yet you're still complaining and making out that anyone that claims to have never had an issue with scrolling is just flat out exaggerating and that your claims are a reflection of Linux as a whole!

I was pretty much done with it after I found it. You want to keep harping on that particular issue because you were using it to attack the messenger.

 

[Snowdog]

Actually, the 9xxx series was literally just rebranded 8xxx series GPUs in most cases. In the few that weren't direct rebrands, the differences were not architecture changes.

The G92 and G92b (die shrink) was rebranded in 4 generations:

It was the 8800GT, 9800GT, GTS 150, GTS 250

It's a testament to how bloody great it was when it came out.

Since I now only buy games at GOG and most of them are older, I am still happily gaming on it today.

 

[Vermillion]

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why most users of the [H] forums cannot install and successfully use Linux considering compatible hardware that's not ten years old. The issue is they aren't trying Linux to successfully install and use it, their agenda is something completely different.

Last I checked I wasn't talking about [H] users. I think I was pretty specific about how some of the issues Snowdog ran into shouldn't be there in 2017 because it's not what ANY user expects to happen.

Hang on,

With all due respect you are biasing Windows more than just a little here.

Originally, I had to search for the fix for network shares sleeping under Windows and in my opinion that's just as important as graphics tearing. The so called issues being put forward here are no different to problems that are apparent under every OS, you cannot single Linux out in this regard - Especially on an enthusiast hardware forum of all things.

There is no OS bias. It's user bias. A user coming from Windows expects the UX to be like Windows. Period.

There's a big difference between trying to figure out a compositor issue and network shares sleeping. Joe Average doesn't give a shit about sleeping network shares. Joe Average does give a shit about tearing and a subpar UX.

No user should have to hunt something like that down to make something as basic as dragging a window work correctly. While our local Linux boosters(ChadDust) like to blame me for using an older card, in reality the issue would have been identical with a newer card. At least for the first two days.

I posted on Sunday, and it wasn't until Tuesday in Post #34, that I figured out the solution that would have fixed it for a newer NVidia cards, that's still 2 days after I posted about the issue (another couple of days to figure out this was also though a different interface for my card). So really having an old card really didn't change much except giving ChadDust fodder for excuse making, and user blaming.

As before that was one of many issues. If it were only the GPU issue, I wouldn't be that concerned. Elementary was utter garbage, flaking out in multiple (crashes galore, buttons not working), I decided to let that pass and let it go as a non-mainstream distro, Mint also has quality issue (beyond the Compositor) that I gave it a pass for because I changed DEs so many times could cause issues, but finally in updated Vanilla Kubuntu, with GPU issue fixed, still had quality issues, that really put nails in the coffin for me.

And I agree with your comments about the pipeline check box. It's not something that should be an issue. Nvidia should be setting that to on by default. Now that is a driver issue. Not a Linux issue. I've never had to do anything like that with the ATI/AMD open source drivers or the proprietary drivers.

I also understand the frustration with some of the distros. Elementary didn't work right on my laptop while all other Ubuntu forks were just fine. I don't know what they screwed up but they did it good. Kubuntu really is just an issue because your 8800GT is too old. That's not Linux. That's not drivers. That's just life in this case. KDE is a beast of a DE and older hardware just won't be able to handle it properly because the old card simply can't handle Kwin properly. I would never tell a user to use KDE if they're on older hardware much less 10 year old hardware.

I do wonder how your system would handle Xubuntu with compton and your command line fix.

OK, so I remembered I have an old POS Athlon based system in the workshop with the closest I can get to an 8800GT installed, that card being a 9600GT, and it already had Ubuntu MATE installed as it was a test mythTV server that I was trying with two stuffed USB ports and one channel of ram not working at all - As a tech you end up accumulating crap like this.

<snip>

- Considering the 9xxx series of cards are closely related to the 8xxx series, I have no idea why composition settings weren't visable for the OP.

Tested again using the usual Firefox and [H] Forums, not a cracker of tearing evident at all. No artifacting and no corruption on the desktop whatsoever. My Mum could use this PC just fine.

So there you have it. The OP believed this to be an issue affecting Linux as a whole, I install Ubuntu from fresh on a half dead PC with 2GB of ram with no problems whatsoever using literally an identical graphics card. As a Linux user am I still exaggerating?

And I'm happy you didn't have any issues. We have also already figured out that most of Snowdogs problems are because of the drivers. But his issue also exposes a prime problem with some Linux distros. I even confirmed that some distros certainly do have issue like Mint Cinnamon. Awful tearing when moving windows around and there is no fix because you can't change Cinnamon's compositor. Other distros at least allow you to choose to use something like Compton.

Even your beloved Ubuntu MATE suffers from the tearing issue until you use MATE Tweak to change the compositor. I saw this on TWO different systems. An E5470 and a my Acer A8-4500M. The E5470 was easily corrected by changing from Marco to Compton. The Acer not so much. The Acer was better after switching to Compton but it still wasn't a totally smooth UX and that's because Ubuntu MATE is still using the old ATI open source driver and not the superior AMDGPU open source driver. Now, I know how to fix my Acer. But if I was loading up Ubuntu MATE for the first time how would I know that there's an ATI and an AMD driver? Now some users will go and use Google or Ubuntuforums.org and they'll figure it out. That's great. However, there are others that are going to look at and go what is this bullshit and go right back to Windows.

You constantly fight with Heatlesssun about how Linux is ready for primetime and blah blah blah. I agree with you on many things and I do think Linux is ready for primetime desktop usage but it STILL needs improvement and you seem to want to ignore that. Mint Cinnamon, the current most popular Linux distro according to Distrowatch, should be coming out of the box running silky smooth. It doesn't. That's a problem.

 

[Snowdog]

Kubuntu really is just an issue because your 8800GT is too old. That's not Linux. That's not drivers. That's just life in this case. KDE is a beast of a DE and older hardware just won't be able to handle it properly because the old card simply can't handle Kwin properly. I would never tell a user to use KDE if they're on older hardware much less 10 year old hardware.

Actually KDE has more bark than bite. It has a reputation for being a beast, but that reputation was earned 10-15 years ago when the code was less optimized and GPUs were much weaker and drivers MUCH worse to nonexistent. KDE performance was perfectly fine with my card once the ForceCompositionPipeline was enabled. Also CPU usage dropped to negligible levels.

My KDE issue was application quality. I suppose you can blame that on the GPU, but it didn't really behave like that.

More explanation to my previous message (linked below): I was in the software center trying to fix the SPDIF sound. I was going to remove the Pulse Audio System Tray, and add the Pulse Audio Volume control. Except after entering Pulse in the search box. The application Locked UP. The graphical glitches are not a GPU tearing issue, they are an after effect of a locked up application with a GUI still responding to resize.
https://hardforum.com/threads/linux...own-on-desktop.1936082/page-3#post-1043046262

IMO Linux has Solid Kernel and Solid networking code because there is companies with money working on these and doing proper QA.

But for the Desktop, QA is lacking and it shows.

 

[BulletDust]

There's a big difference between trying to figure out a compositor issue and network shares sleeping. Joe Average doesn't give a shit about sleeping network shares. Joe Average does give a shit about tearing and a subpar UX.

Upon installing Windows I fiddle with a vast number of radio switches in order to disable as much of Cortana as I can, in order to disable as much spyware as I can, in order to get as much control as I can possibly milk out of the updater - I wrestle with default apps to make sure Edge is not my browser of choice despite Microsoft warning it's a move that's against my best interests - In my opinion these are settings to me that are every bit as important as one simple checkbox under Nvidia X Server settings that as highlighted in my example of a clean Linux install on a half dead system does not need to be enabled on every system running Nvidia drivers in order to obtain smooth scrolling, hence the reason why it is not enabled by default - Furthermore, using the same drivers as the OP with a literally identical graphics card the Nouveau drivers also provided perfect scrolling using software as well as hardware accelerated rendering!

The first time I booted Windows 10 and installed Nvidia drivers, from that point on I was booting to a black screen with no safe mode - That, in my opinion, is a far greater issue than tearing! And not once did I consider writing off the OS in it's entirety as a result.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...=windows+10+boots+to+black+screen+with+cursor

On numerous occations I've had the issue of the Windows 7 installer not detecting the boot drive, I had to go sprawling through Google to find the fix. Not once did I consider writing off the OS as a result:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=....69i57j0l4.10879j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Just telling the truth, don't shoot the messenger!

You act like software rendering is a bad thing, it is not, there are many usage cases where it is actually preferable where a user needs all the GPU power they can get for other applications with literally no negatives assuming enough CPU power.

This is the fix under Mint Cinnamon and it works fine, as stated previously I ran Mint Cinnamon for two years like this and actually completely forgot about the issue until Lunar started experiencing the same problem - That's how faultless my experience was once it was disabled.

I run a Core 2 laptop here with an Intel iGPU and I've never once experienced tearing or graphical corruption, I have a TVHeadend/media server here running Ubuntu MATE with no tearing or graphical corruption, I have a HTPC here running Ubuntu MATE with no tearing or graphical corruption, I have a desktop PC here running Ubuntu MATE with no tearing or graphical corruption as highlighted in a linked video.

And yet here's the OP claiming the issue is widespread and Linux is not ready for the desktop?! I know what you are saying Vermillion, I'm not incapable of listening to reason unlike some, but for the OP to claim that because of a fairly isolated issue that's comparable to issues experienced under Windows that Linux as a whole is not ready for the desktop is just flat out incorrect - When hardware can be mixed and matched and slotted together like Lego and the OS has to do it's best to run on this plethora of hardware shit is going to go wrong from time to time, this is the case with both Linux and Windows. It also has to be pointed out that I in no way recommend using laptops that have adaptive iGPU and dedicated GPU setups, this is an area where Linux fails and disappointment will usually result - Especially considering new users.

Furthermore, I have totally and utterly debunked the theory that the OP's issues are a result of driver issues. I used virtually the same card in a half dead PC with major issues and my out of the box experience was totally faultless, up and running with a better browser than Edge, a PDF reader, an Office suite, VLC and more in around 40 mins on an old crappy mechanical HDD - As stated, my mum could use this PC just fine, in fact it would be perfect for her.

The way it stands ATM:

- 5.1 over SPDIF: Debunked.
- Tearing: Debunked.
- OGL 3.0: Debunked.
- Graphical corruption: Still Present, I suspect either KDE is garbage or the GPU has issues as a possibly non reference card with the Nvidia drivers. It has to be emphasised that under my test system running Linux and a virtually identical card I do not experience any graphical corruption under any method of desktop composition and have perfect access to the composition pipeline settings under Nvidia X Server. Therefore it can safely be assumed that this is in no way a problem that affects Linux as a whole.

 

[BulletDust]

You constantly fight with Heatlesssun about how Linux is ready for primetime and blah blah blah. I agree with you on many things and I do think Linux is ready for primetime desktop usage but it STILL needs improvement and you seem to want to ignore that. Mint Cinnamon, the current most popular Linux distro according to Distrowatch, should be coming out of the box running silky smooth. It doesn't. That's a problem.

And yet while Linux is improving Windows 10 is actually going backwards, as evidenced by the vast number of users on this very forum complaining about it.

You act like Linux is the only OS that needs improvement, this is not the case. Furthermore, I don't know of a single non techie that can install Windows from scratch, so I'm not too sure just what you're basing your argument on if the enthusiasts can't be considered when installing an OS.