Linux Developers Threaten to Pull “Kill Switch”

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Sep 23, 2018.

  1. raz-0

    raz-0 [H]ardness Supreme

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    You know how I know you didn't read the article?

    Hint: it's because what you said, and why it is apparently not correct for all code bases and all contributions within some code bases is covered.
     
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  2. SecretStash

    SecretStash Limp Gawd

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    LGBTQIA+ discriminates against F for feminists:
    LGBTQIAF+

    Well that's not complete. We can add:
    LGBTQIAFSJW+

    Once it gets big enough, Alphabet (aka google) will merge with alphabet (the acronym) into one beautiful Utopia where there is no diversity in political opinion.
     
  3. griff30

    griff30 I Lower the Boom!

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  4. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Sigh.

    Pendulums always swing. I guess we'll have to wait and see where this one actually settles.

    I'd like to think that the intent isn't to kill merit as a measure of advancement, but to instead suggest that it isn't the ONLY measure.

    In other words, if someone is brilliant at what they do, but is also an asshole, maybe they shouldn't be put in a leadership role. Essentially an acknowledgement that BOTH technical proficiency AND social skills matter.
     
  5. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    True.

    It would probably be counter-productive to have two or more competing kernel teams, though. Linux is fragmented enough as it is.
     
  6. capt_cope

    capt_cope Gawd

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    Nice in theory, except that's not what the language of the CoC states. Instead, someone who's brilliant at what they do can be banned from doing that thing because someone else is offended by them for some reason other than the ones laid out in the same document. Be as optimistic as you like, but you're only fooling yourself.
     
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  7. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Maybe there just needs to be a worldwide tournament. Divide coders into three teams.

    Sociopanix

    Modernix

    Socialisnix

    They can compete to see who can program the best kernel.
     
  8. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I question this. Sounds way too "conspiracy theory" to me.
     
  9. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Have you even read what it says?

    I know, it can be difficult, because the linux foundation's website is currently down, probably because some reddit/4chan/8chan/whatever snowflakes who can't deal with having to be nice to other people are DDoS:ing it, but here is the version from git, in its entirety:

    Code:
    diff --git a/Documentation/process/code-of-conduct.rst b/Documentation/process/code-of-conduct.rst
    new file mode 100644
    index 000000000000..ab7c24b5478c
    --- /dev/null
    +++ b/Documentation/process/code-of-conduct.rst
    @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
    +Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    +
    +Our Pledge
    +==========
    +
    +In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as
    +contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and
    +our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body
    +size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and
    +expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality,
    +personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.
    +
    +Our Standards
    +=============
    +
    +Examples of behavior that contributes to creating a positive environment
    +include:
    +
    +* Using welcoming and inclusive language
    +* Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
    +* Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
    +* Focusing on what is best for the community
    +* Showing empathy towards other community members
    +
    +
    +Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include:
    +
    +* The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or
    + advances
    +* Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks
    +* Public or private harassment
    +* Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or electronic
    + address, without explicit permission
    +* Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a
    + professional setting
    +
    +
    +Our Responsibilities
    +====================
    +
    +Maintainers are responsible for clarifying the standards of acceptable behavior
    +and are expected to take appropriate and fair corrective action in response to
    +any instances of unacceptable behavior.
    +
    +Maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or reject
    +comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other contributions that are
    +not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban temporarily or permanently any
    +contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening,
    +offensive, or harmful.
    +
    +Scope
    +=====
    +
    +This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in public spaces
    +when an individual is representing the project or its community. Examples of
    +representing a project or community include using an official project e-mail
    +address, posting via an official social media account, or acting as an appointed
    +representative at an online or offline event. Representation of a project may be
    +further defined and clarified by project maintainers.
    +
    +Enforcement
    +===========
    +
    +Instances of abusive, harassing, or otherwise unacceptable behavior may be
    +reported by contacting the Technical Advisory Board (TAB) at
    +<tab@lists.linux-foundation.org>. All complaints will be reviewed and
    +investigated and will result in a response that is deemed necessary and
    +appropriate to the circumstances. The TAB is obligated to maintain
    +confidentiality with regard to the reporter of an incident. Further details of
    +specific enforcement policies may be posted separately.
    +
    +Maintainers who do not follow or enforce the Code of Conduct in good faith may
    +face temporary or permanent repercussions as determined by other members of the
    +project’s leadership.
    +
    +Attribution
    +===========
    +
    +This Code of Conduct is adapted from the Contributor Covenant, version 1.4,
    +available at https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.html
    Essentially, be nice to other people and don't harass them.

    That's really not an SJW agenda. That's just being a decent human being.

    Essentially this whole thing translates into "Don't be a dick, and we won't have a problem". You pretty much have to sign something like this to work anywhere these days.

    Jeez, these snowflake anti-SJW conspiracy theorists will go up in arms over absolutely anything these days...
     
  10. trparky

    trparky Gawd

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    In some ways I think Linus brought about some of this with how he acts. I've read some of his commentary on the Linux mailing list and some of the stuff he's written would make even an old sailor blush what with all of the swear words that he's used. There's putting someone in his/her place and then you have what Linus has done many times. There's a line that most decent people know that you shouldn't cross when telling someone that they were wrong, Linus has crossed it many times.

    A person once said that Linus doesn't understand how emotions work and that when he was younger he had his sister translate the world around him. If I had to use a pop culture reference to describe Linus I would use The Big Bang Theory's Sheldon Cooper from the earlier seasons.

    Now, I'm in no way defending this SJW shit but perhaps Linus has no one else to blame but himself.
     
  11. SmokeRngs

    SmokeRngs [H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008

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    And yet Steve Jobs is laughing at you from the grave and Apple is laughing at you from on top of piles and piles of cash.

    Social skills are for social occasions. I don't give a damn if anyone has great social skills or not. Then again, this has nothing to do with social skills. This has to do with an agenda. If it was about harsh language the only thing they'd need to say is no cussing/cursing. It's not about that. It's about control through openended "codes of conduct" which can be redefined whenever someone wants and makes enough noise.

    It's an extension of political correctness and the ability to control thought by controlling language through definitions.

    I don't care who pushes bullshit such as this. I don't care what their motivations are. They could have the best intentions in the world but it doesn't matter one damn bit if the result is easily twisted and abused. I care about results and I'm tired of the result of allowing a small group of people to control language so I don't see these proposed changes as anything but bad.
     
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  12. capt_cope

    capt_cope Gawd

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    I'lI ignore your paraphrasing and cut to the chase... Again...
    That's "essentially" stating that anyone a maintainer finds offensive for some reason not covered by the CoC can be banned - temporarily or permanently.

    ** edit since this sort of shit annoys me**
    Get off your "snowflake SJW agenda" horse and wake up. People will offend other people. I'm offended every single day of my straight, white, male life. I can't imagine how often some "marginalized person" is offended each day, but I do know this: that marginalized person and I have got more in common than the bullshit SJW crowd wants to admit. We're all human, MOST of us don't want to make someone else (even a complete stranger) feel like shit. If you really want to help, try DE-ESCALATING a situation. I really believe that most people, when given the opportunity to engage in open (not some bullshit "so how long have you hated women" SJW tactic) dialogue will try to find common ground. Admittedly we've lost this in America lately, and I know who I'm pointing fingers at. I spent two weeks in Tanzania a little while ago, and despite the fact that my car is worth more than most of the people I interacted with on a daily basis will earn in their lifetime, we still managed to find common ground and become friends. They WOULD NOT let me pay for a drink, or repay their kindness without some serious effort on my part. You want to fix social problems - start finding a way to let people in the "west" reach that understanding. I'll NEVER understand what it's like to live on ~$2.00 a day, and the people I met there will likely never understand what it's like to have enough money that buying an A6 isn't irresponsible. Yet... we were able to acknowledge the differences between ourselves and move on. I have yet to see a single SJW who can acknowledge a difference (or "inequality") and move on to find common ground. You're either WITH them or part of the problem. Which is exactly why there are so many otherwise "nice" people telling them to shove it as deep up their ass as humanly possible, and then shove a bit more. Not because there are vast numbers of homophobic, misogynistic, racist, (insert word for anti-"fluid gender" people here) people, but because there are lots and lots of people sick and tired of being told that disagreement equates to hate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  13. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    When I was an employee I was offended all the time. It's essentially the way things go when you have upper management and all the scum below them.

    VzOfs0Qh.jpg
     
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  14. Laowai

    Laowai Gawd

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    Except, social skills should not matter.
    I've read it, and it seems wide open to abuse.
    For example, the person who wrote that dang document turns around and calls another person a rape apologist because he didn't buy into the 'studies' that claim 1/4 women are raped or sexually assaulted. I don't buy into them either, I am highly critical of such studies because they don't pass any form of scrutiny. Am I a rape apologist? If I wrote code for Linux would it be disregarded because my opinion on an unrelated matter differs from somebody else? Should code from another be added because they have a particular sexual orientation or color? How is any of this crap relevant?
    I've read some of that persons tweets and posts, she sure seems like an angry person with an agenda. She makes no bones about it, she absolutely has an agenda and it's not just "be cool with each other".
     
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  15. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I'd argue that Steve Jobs was one of the worst executives in modern times, and deserves absolutely none of the praise that was foisted upon him. He was a goddamned tyrant, unfit to run ANY organization. Yes, Apple had financial success under his stewardship, but I see that more as dumb luck than anything else. Absolutely everything I've seen on the record about the guy depicts a man who made irrational emotional decisions and was rude and insulting to everyone around him. men like him shouldn't be in any leadership position at all. Heck, they shouldn't even be employed.
     
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  16. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Yes, it is vague. Policies like this are ALWAYS vague. It is absolutely impossible to craft a document like this such that it covers every aspect of what harassment and improper behavior entails. As Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart said in 1964 when trying to define obscenity (and absolutely failing, because it is impossible to define) "I know it when I see it". Any policy policing behavior is by its necessity going to be vague. I have been required to agree to similarly vague documents at 100% of every single company I have worked for in the last almost 20 years since I graduated.

    During that time I have not been aware of anyone being accused of misconduct in the offices I have worked, (accurately or otherwise).

    These things have to be vague in order to cover the full range of undesirable behavior, and if you are a decent person, you stay WELL clear of even remotely crossing the line, always living beyond reproach. Then you won't have a problem, even if the lines are blurred, because you are so goddamned far inside of them. Anyone who can't live to this standard doesn't belong in any business.

    I fully agree. There is a potential for abuse. There is always a potential for abuse when policing behavior. This needs to be addressed on a case by case basis if and when it happens, but thus far this code is pretty common sense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
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  17. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Steve Jobs was a master salesperson and marketer - no one can deny that.
    As far as running organizations and actually knowing what the hell he is commanding and talking about, he was a complete idiot, much like Thomas Edison.

    If it weren't for Steve Wozniak and Nikola Tesla, there would be no Steve Jobs and Thomas Edison.
    Not to mention Steve Jobs was ultra rich and yet totally abandoned his real daughter and her mother - but he was such a wonderful person... yeah right. :rolleyes:
     
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  18. SmokeRngs

    SmokeRngs [H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008

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    And yet you make my point for me. He was a despicable man whom you will never here me say a single nice thing about. I absolutely can't stand the guy. However, he built one of the largest companies in the world because he was lucky and because he was one of the best salesmen ever. Political correctness did not build the company nor make it a success. His decisions did that. He was a tyrant and he used that to generate success.

    Vague, bullshit policies are the worst thing you can have. It allows way too much leeway in what someone with an ax to grind can turn into an offense which destroys someone else. It puts way too much power in the hands of people who are good at generating bullshit "offenses". It reduces the usefulness of merit and rewards those who are good at generating controversy. Just because vague, bullshit policies have become popular doesn't make them "good". I argue that it is the exact opposite. The only thing policies like that are good for is generating fear.

    You're also making the mistake of believing that the people in control of the policy are levelheaded and will see through common bullshit. We've seen way too many examples otherwise. In some cases the people policing the policies use them to push their own agenda and in other cases the people doing the policing cave to unreasonable demands through fear.

    These openended policies are nothing but tools to generate fear. Fear is a powerful motivator and has nothing to do with merit.
     
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  19. Of COURSE they wouldn't.

    It's a repository of power. Both social and technical.

    They were ALWAYS going to come after it.

    And if this killswitch and social covenant bullshit is implemented, there goes all trust from the community.
    Because, at any moment, someone can accuse you, right, wrong or otherwise.

    So they take away YOUR project. They take away your access to other projects.
    They also, likely, will hobble your access to the platform in the first place.

    Name me ONE business that's going to trust OSS with that kind of invasive control.
     
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  20. Laowai

    Laowai Gawd

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    Issue is, where that line is keeps moving and it will not stop until something drastic happens. It's at absurd levels now. Hell, even 20 years ago my brother almost got fired because he said "Thanks, princess" to a young woman after she helped him out on something.
    Who wants to work in an environment where you must always walk on eggshells because those around you are actively seeking to take offense to something? It does not even have to be related to them directly, anything that may offend any 'group', even if it's taken entirely out of context, is grounds for dismissal or punishment in many places. Unless of course, that group is straight, white men. I am surprised we don't see white males being burned in effigy and those who lit the fire being hailed as heroes for being so brave at this point.

    It's honestly one of the reasons I have stayed in China for so long, I could not imagine dealing with this bullshit. And if you understood the amount of bullshit I have to deal with on a daily basis, that comment would carry the full weight it is intended to.
     
  21. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    You have been very lucky.

    Just because you have never had to work in an environment where abuse of such policies happen, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. the problem with this policy, is that it isn't written for an Employee working for a company, it is aimed at a group of peers working together for a common goal, and in such an environment decision to discipline a member of the group should not be based on anonymous accusations decided by one person. This policy sets forth mechanisms to accuse and punish but does not mandate standards on review and appeal.

    "Sorry Bob, Jane thinks you are an asshat. I happen to like Jane better than you anyway, so, you are out".

     
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  22. ThatITGuy

    ThatITGuy Limp Gawd

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  23. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    In a tangible pre-defined way. Not in an arbitrarily enforced, "you should have known better" after the fact way. Then Maybe.
     
  24. Zuul

    Zuul Gawd

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    Now where the fuck is Knurrus?
     
  25. trparky

    trparky Gawd

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    That's what lawyers and lawsuit are for. You take your former employer to court and then you proceed to sue the shit out of them. If this ever happens to you, document everything, get witness statements, etc. When you get all of that, file a nice fat lawsuit and go to town making sure that everyone involved in wrongfully firing you gets fired in the process and you get your job back with back pay.
     
  26. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I'm sorry but "thanks princess" is a pretty demeaning thing to say to a woman. I think it was fully appropriate that he saw consequences for that. I'm not seeking to be offended, but I would be grossed out if I heard anyone speak like that in my office, and would be inclined to report it.

    These are not unreasonable expectations.

    - Never discuss anything of a sexual nature at work ever for any reason.
    - Never seek a romantic relationship with anyone you work with (or customers or clients)
    - Never make fun of or demean anyone.
    - Don't talk to female colleagues any differently than you would male colleagues.

    These aren't some unreasonable constantly moving unachieveable bar. This is just common decency, and it has been the same forever. Just because it was easier to get away with during the Don Draper era in the 50's through 70's, doesn't mean it was any more OK then than it is now.

    If you or anyone you know has a habit of calling random women you are unrelated to "princess", "sweetie", "sugartits", "honey", "hun" or anything like that that is pretty gross. If you can't figure out what is offensive and what isn't, just stop using terms of endearment outside of family.

    And you know what? If people feel like they are constantly walking on eggshells at work, maybe that is a GOOD thing, if it forces them to stop and think about how their actions are perceived by others. EVERYONE should ALWAYS be concerned about how what they say and do affects the people around them, not just in the office, but everywhere they go. Every single time you open your mouth, no matter where you are you should be thinking about who is in the room, and whether or not what you are about to say is appropriate. There is no "safe space" for you to speak completely unfiltered without thinking, and there shouldn't be.

    More than anything else, these are just basic manners. It's surprising how many people lack them these days.
     
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  27. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    No, I have not been very lucky.

    Repeat after me:

    THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY AGAINST WHITE MEN.

    Never has been, never will be.

    This is just some crazy backlash by inconsiderate douchebags who think they should be able to say or do whatever they want to without repercussions. I'm glad its coming to an end.
     
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  28. capt_cope

    capt_cope Gawd

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    The problem with that idea is the cost of a court battle. Not something most newly un-employed people can really afford, and if you don't have an "obvious" victim status (woman, person of color, disability, etc.) or some slam-dunk level email/text from the person who fired you, the company is less likely to settle without taking it to court. I recently had to attend a "diversity" seminar presented by our companies lawyers where they explained (as only a lawyer can - they made it crystal clear without ever actually saying the words) that they settle 99% of the cases where the former employee fits under one of the victim statuses. The only cases they fight are obvious wins - straight white men, and cases with a perfect paper trail (and even then they're nervous since a manager's emails, text messages, and anything posted on social media can and will be taken out of context and used against the company.)
     
  29. Laowai

    Laowai Gawd

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    Lighten up.
    Putting things like 'princess' in the same category as 'sugartits' is absurd.
    You may wish to live being worried how everyone around you may possibly (mis)interpret the things you say, but I sure don't.

    Also, the number of married couples who have met at work is rather high. I think it's the second or third most common place to meet a spouse.
    As to not talking to females differently from males....I think we have many issues because some DO talk to them as if they were males. Nicknames and banter come to mind.

    To you being 'grossed out' by anything, you're entitled to feel however you want. In my mind, a direct conversation is far better to getting HR or social media or whatever else involved. How hard would it have been for that woman to turn to my brother and say, "I don't appreciate being called princess'?
    She would have gotten an apology on the spot and never heard it again.
    But that almost sounds like...how adults handle life.

    Really, you're giving me a new appreciation for China.
    I can call my assisstant whatever the hell I like and if she gets offended, she'll simply tell me to knock it off. And I will.
    I make fun of her constantly. When she stops laughing at it, I'll stop doing it.
    When she digs in on me, I give her a high-five when she does it well.
    She's been with me for going on 3 years now, we have a great (non-sexual) relationship in and out of the office.
    We have a bond that I don't think would have been possible had we both had giant sticks up our asses and been afraid to communicate in a comfortable/unprofessional manner.

    We're not going to change how each other sees this, so we can agree to disagree. I just completely fail to see the allure of your choices. I understand them completely and am not for a second telling you that you're wrong....I am just glad I do not have to live in that world.
     
  30. mufcfan

    mufcfan Limp Gawd

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    ...and everybody wins?
    I know that this is how it works, but this is a very depressing fact.

    So, if a female colleague says to me (male) or to a female colleague "Thanks, sweetie!", then I can run all the way to HR, because that is grossly inappropriate?
    If not, then where is the equality?

    People are used to hearing things in an office environment and the times they are using services in person (shopping, etc.). They will use the same patterns they see and are on board with.
    Level-headed adults can try and talk with the 'offender' to make sure that they don't do the same thing to them again and be done with it.
    I have colleagues who have some rules about how you (not) address them or talk with them. Nothing over the top, so its all right with everyone.

    This 'everyone should know that all this is inappropriate by heart since they read some very vague rules' thing is way too far and I don't think that it actually represents the values of most people or even most people's who belong to the group who is said to have been offended.
    Also: don't mention the war!
     
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  31. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    hahahahahaha oh cough cough ahahahaha. really fucking really?! where have you been the few couple years? we are currently the most evil thing that has ever existed and need to be stopped, destroyed and replaced with sane progressive woman...
     
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  32. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's purposely designed for Progressives who are constantly in a egg-shell walking competition with their social media to arbitrarily punish those who decided to act human instead of like a progressive Stepford wife. And its applied arbitrarily meaning the right people get a pass. Using this you create a high friction environment against non-progressives and facilitate ideological nepotism.

    Why would you want to control Linux? Oh, hard code against pornography, cryptography, cryptocurrency. Just as some examples. Then spy and rat-fink on the people who never signed up for it but failed the egg-shell walking competition progressives created. When you have absolute control the roads, for you can kill a business, keep someone from medical treatment, etc. Everything important is connected by the seemingly unimportant.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
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  33. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    This is what happens when you spend too much time in the nuts echo chambers on Reddit, listening to raving paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theorists.

    It's the batshit insane "men's rights activists" who need to be stopped and destroyed.
     
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  34. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    Did I mention anything about a conspiracy? Against anyone? No, I didn’t. It doesn’t matter What the color your skin is or your sexual preferences, an EO policy that has no remediation clause can be abused. If you are being a douchebag and harass people, then sure, pack your shit and go. But the way this policy is worded, there are NO protections for the accused.
     
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  35. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    only reddit ive ever seen is what has been posted here and the occasional search for troubleshooting info. I never purposely go there. men do have rights. if that upsets you, you have issues.
     
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  36. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Yes, men do have rights, but mens rights in general are in no way being threatened, except in the mind of the paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theorist. At least not white men. (black men still get shot for randomly holding cellphones during traffic stops)
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  37. SmokeRngs

    SmokeRngs [H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008

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    As a single father who has raised his son from the age of 4 through 18 on his own I disagree. And I disagree strongly. The bullshit I've had to put up with officially and unofficially has been staggering.
     
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  38. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    My mother raised me well. She raised me to always be considerate of the people around me, and that meant watching what I do and what I say to make sure I don't hurt anyone. Again, this is not some SJW agenda. This is just good manners. Of course a good person doesnt want to hurt others with what they do or say, so they are constantly conscious of these things.

    I'd argue dating at work is completely and totally inappropriate. I've seen it once in my career, and in that case the two apparent fell for eachother at work, but because it was inappropriate didn't tell anyone, until she could find a new job elsewhere. Still inappropriate, but I guess its the best course of action given the circumstances.

    That's exactly the problem. That type of nicknames and banter are not OK with the guys either. Not at work, and not on your free time. If you cant be civil, not poke fun of people, give then nicknames or tell obscene jokes, then you are not a very good person. The traditional "locker room talk" is not ok in ANY setting. We should be speaking exactly the same to men and women, respectfully as fellow humans. Crude, vulgar jokes, poking fun, nicknames, these things are unbecoming on a teenager, but at least understandable as they are still learning how to be people. By the time you are a grown-ass man, you should have outgrown them a long time ago.


    That's how I would do it too if I were ever offended by how someone addressed me at work (note that in my many years working, this has never happened), but not everyone is comfortable with direct confrontation, and they shouldn't have to be in order to be respected at work.


    I guess the way I see the work environment is this. Does it pass the Picard test? If the Picard character of Star Trek fame wouldn't do or say something, you probably shouldn't either, at least not while at work.
     
  39. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    ^ seen that myself with several friends.

    ok go put you head back in the sand. its so blatantly obvious yet you cant see it, evil "old white" men, "men, shut up and stand up", the whole white male privilege bs. so not much more to say.
     
  40. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    What will happen is, people will just stop getting involved. All that will be left is a "cause" and not a "purpose." If it's not worth it, then fuck it. Who want's to be hassled. People have a right to work in comfort free of any stress or drama. If I want to turn off my office lights, use natural light, listen to somafm.com and work alone ... fuck, let me do that.

    There is a simple reason "white" and "male" exist .... these are the the guys that are passionate about it in the largest numbers. I hate that they are now being punished and being forced to include people that want to show up for a "cause" and to "prove a point" rather than doing good solid work ( within their own comforts ) and gaining praise and notoriety naturally.

    Girls wanted into the Boy Scouts ... ok, they got in. Did the Girl Scouts let the boys in? Hell no they didn't ...

    This gender shit is all BS. Even my GF thinks so.

    Let girls have their girls night out and knock before you come down into the Man-Cave .. FFS

    What I really hope will happen is that somehow someway they move to a gender / race / age free employment model. You're given a number and upper management never knows if you're black, a woman, if you have a disability, etc. Instead you're judged on your education, experience, skill set and performance.

    Employee #431240 shows up to their 20 year retirement party where they are to be congratulated and given a party and a gold watch. The company president says, "oh, I didn't know you where in a wheel-chair ... or ... black"

    I would also forbid anyone from ever openly discussing ( at work ) dating, relationships, sex, etc. Sexual jokes would get you in serious trouble. I would have all common areas under 24 hour surveillance. Bi monthly very short meetings where this is discussed and employees reminded. Weekly memo's sent to mailboxes. Constant reminders. I would encourage women not to wear perfume or heavy makeup and to dress neutral casual with preferably "less" jewelry.

    Female employee: "well, jewelry makes me feel beautiful?" .... Boss: "No, we don't want that in the work place. It's a much safer enviroment for our male employees if you were not trying to feel beautiful and sexy. We don't want you noticed or smelling nice!"

    I'm so sick of this shit, If these women want to feel safe, trust me, I would make it absolutely crystal fking clear that there is zero chance for them ever being able to blame some guy for whatever reasons. Same with the creepy guys that think it's OK to stare at women like their a piece of meat. I know a ton of men like that.

    And you see? This is my attitude now. How is this not everyone else's attitude? This is what all this crap is doing to everyone. We are now eating each other fcking alive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
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