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Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Sep 23, 2018.
They expect on demand that the world to bow & feed them.
Go make one yourself.
Isn't that so hard?
Hey, I'm all for for more females as programming. I think my daughter has the potential to be great, so I feed her Scratch and such to see if it takes her somewhere. Her interested might lie with design more. But hey, if she decides it's her thing, I'll be proud. Otherwise, nothing should be forced. I don't impose on her what career she should take when she grows up.
Guilty until proven innocent.
Remember, a lot of people crave drama. A lot of people want to go through life constantly being offended and butt-hurt. Peace, quiet, harmony, gettin' shit done without constant drama distractions? Where's the fun in that?
You can "Identify" as whatever you want.
But I get to identify as "Batman" if you do, and you have to recognize my authority as such.
Every Linux guy I have ever met I liked. can't say the same for soy boys, sjw, pajama dorks.
these sjws can go suck a CoC! what are the cool kids saying, oh right, git gud.
I wonder if anyone commenting has actually READ the CoC, or if you're all blindly jumping on the anti-SJW bandwagon? Just look at the toxic environment created here by a bunch of people who are triggered by this one short document. One of these days, you will realize that YOU are the reason that these things exist to being with.
What part of the CoC to you disagree with? Is it the part where trolling and personal attacks are unacceptable? Is it the anti-doxxing clause? Maybe it's the part that says not to sexually harass others? I really don't get all the hate over this.
Like a Cancer, it's everywhere. Political Correctness over-correcting again.
did you forget the /s? its the force feeding that everyone disagrees with. you want to be part of something, get good enough to be part of it. dont force yourself into it and then demand everyone around you change.
I am being serious. I also find it interesting that people disagree with the force-feeding of "Don't be a dick to people". I mean, it's like saying that "I don't agree with murder per-say, but I just don't think we should have laws force-fed down our throats to make it illegal". I also don't see where this "force yourself in" stuff comes from. There is NOTHING in the CoC that 'forces' anyone in, or discriminates against any race, gender, etc. If anything, it will allow talented developers, who are more than good enough to contribute, to actually be able to contribute without being bullied out of the "old boy's club". Like I said, the only change that is being forced is the enforcement of common decency.
because you dont have the right to tell other people not to be dicks. you dont like it walk away. and your murder "analogy" doesn't work, not even close to the same thing, ffs. they forced their way into the community and then demand the community change to appease them and they are doing it in every aspect of society. if they are as good as they think , the "old boys club" will accept them based on merit. you cant force common decency, it causes the opposite, as shown time and time again.
edit: and nobody forces anybody to be part of a "toxic environment".
They can just put this line in the rules:
"If you got the skill, your in. If not, piss off."
Everyone is included in that sentence. Its not being mean to whatever group people are a part of.
I hope any contributor that depises this COC has backbone and stops contributing. I sure as hell won't trust future kernel updates as much going forward having to wonder if they written by someone with actual skill.
Don't know how accurate this is, but:
Don't worry nobody likes your posts.
ffs. like I keep saying, it all started with participation awards.
If this is a method that injects politics into something as critical as the Linux Kernel then you will find no one on your side about this.
And if this is the way to punish someone as Linus Torvalds for his passionate way of expressing himself then it is wrong again.
But I think that no one here finds it acceptable that people being sexually harassed regardless of sex or sexual orientation.
You're right, I don't have the right to tell other people not to be dicks. However, I DO have the right to say "Don't be a dick in my house, and if you are a dick in my house, I will kick your ass to the curb." This is what Linus, and the others who signed-off on the CoC are saying. Nobody forced their way into any community; the leaders of the community decided that they wanted, and now ya'll are butt-hurt that you can't be dicks to people anymore. If people don't like the new rules, they can leave.
Now, I understand that people don't like change. Everyone wants everything to stay the way it's always been, and any change is seen as an attack on their way of life. I get that, I really do. But it seems that nowadays, people block out all rational thought, and are just blindly against any sort of change. They try to slap labels on it, such as SJW, and lash out against it. They label any supporters of the change as 'evil', and loud all sorts of ridiculous consequences. It happened with desegregation. It happened with women's suffrage. It is happening with the Linux CoC. And it will happen with things in the future, too. This is not the end of the world. There is no 'them' trying to infiltrate into any special spaces. These are boogeymen made up in your own mind in order to try to create an us-vs-them narrative.
Where are people getting the idea that code quality or product quality will suffer?
The COC reads to me like what I can see in our HR handbook. If I violate it, I get fired. There are some interesting quotes here that are fairly telling.. "I hate this new gender stuff" and "I think they all need to take their Clozaril,lithium,Zyprexa cocktails and shut the fuck up.", "SJW" this and that.
I can see where the COC is coming from when you've got this kind of verbal garbage getting applause. You can criticize and reject work on the technical merits of the work, not the person. That hasn't changed. What is changing is that some people with very limited means of expression aren't permitted to blast that to mailing lists.
Then again, I think a lot of people who have a need to talk this way don't contribute one line of code to begin with.
This getting labeled as SJW is funny because as I said, if you work at any kind of larger company, it's standard HR policy anyway.
lol. change is fine, its the forcing their view, which are a minority, on everyone.
really?! labels?! racist, bigot, misogynist, Nazi, kkk, white supremisit etc etc sound familiar? if you dont adopt their way of thinking one of those applies to you.
they DO NOT want it based on merit.
I am curious as to your thinking on this. Do you think that the only people who have skill are massive douches to everyone? This is not the end of the world, and in a couple of weeks, everyone will have forgotten all about it.
When "being a dick" is as easy as accidentally saying "good morning guys" - yeah, it's really easy to get pissed off about the attempts to force people to "not be a dick". If, instead of getting triggered and blowing things out of proportion the SJW / Marginalized people crowd would open a polite dialogue with something like "hey when you said 'good morning guys' it really made me feel shitty because I'm not a man, and I wasn't sure if you were only addressing the men or the whole group." But instead the poor person guilty of saying "guys" gets tarred and feathered on twitter for being a sexist pig that hates women and all other marginalized people. And usually without any chance to offer an explanation or apology. The SJW crowd has escalated actions that most would view as minor to the level of war crimes, all while removing any useful dialogue between the offending and offended parties.
Couple that with the fact that so many "marginalized" people get offended by facts and you've got a recipe for people who would normally go out of their way to not be a dick to others actively trying to get rid of stupid ass sjw movements.
And what bothers me about the CoC? This part right here:
Maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or reject
comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other contributions that are
not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban temporarily or permanently any
contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening,
offensive, or harmful.
At face value it's nothing bad, but it opens the door to removing any voice of dissent for any reason at all. Not cool, and not healthy.
* Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences (That is unless you're not a leftist)
* Focusing on what is best for the community (community focused, not project)
* Showing empathy towards other community members (Give me a break, I bet Kyle would love this one)
* Using welcoming and inclusive language (So no more "hey guys")
The 'bad behavior' is all about harassment essentially. Of course, if you're easily offended you feel 'harassed' This is going to be a pure shit-show. We will never have the year of the Linux Desktop.
Look at all the examples out there of how people became rich and wildly successful in tech.
All people who spent countless hours to the detriment of the rest of their lives inventing and creating.
They spent all their energy inventing and contributing to software.
Not everybody is smart enough to invent new paradigms in software. Even less are willing to sacrifice the time.
You know, everything this person posts is completely racist and sexist.
Isn't that what liberals like this are supposed to stand against, and yet it is what they are obviously causing themselves???
To quote the anonymous poster who shared this image on that site:
Welp, looks like I'm moving to BSD.
Before anyone decides to label me, I want to add that two of my best friends, who are married to one another, are transgender and lesbian, and of whom work professionally in the tech industry and are excellent at what they do.
Racism and sexism is only a thing if you're a white male perpetrator.
Sigh when will these viruses be removed.
strawman, meet red herring.
if we were discussing this in your work place that might be a valid point. we arent, it isnt.
as for the part that "bothers" me- quite simply, you are saying that being blacklisted due only to a subjective "im offended" without any requirement of proof is totally legit and ok
and to further that, anyone standing up to say the entirely true point of "you do not have a RIGHT to not be offended" is also engaging in the same behavior of "being a dick" and thus also would be subject to temporary or permanent bans is, in its entirety, a completely planned method to lay the ground work for orchestrated effort to remove those which they do not agree with for purely sociopolitical reason.
you can attempt to package it in whatever pretty perfumed wrapping paper you wish, but a turd is still a turd.
They hand out blue check marks like Prozac it seems
When did anyone think that removing skilled people from a community which centered around their skill will make that community better?Being a dick is completely subjective, the performance of code is not really.
New rules will not make 'dicks' change, but the community might lose their invaluable skills. How's that inclusive? What will that coding community gain after they leave?
This will only lead to a forming of a new group where they will categorically not let the drama kings/queens/whatevers in. Because the 'dicks' will be forced to leave their own place, only because they are themselves and not pretending empathy.
Have one colleague who feels attacked if you don't agree with her (sometimes mind-numbingly stupid) opinion. From my and some other's perspective she is the one acting as a dick from time to time. Although, even she recognizes that being part of the group is more important than alienating the ones who make it work.
Yes, she, but I don't think it has anything to do with she being a woman, because I've seen that behavior from young white males too. I have/had brilliant female (and people who would fit into the abbreviated categories) colleagues.
Nice straw man argument yourself.
The part about breaking the CoC isn't what I take issue with, it's the part I added emphasis to. They're not only talking about behavior that goes against the terms laid out in the CoC (not real controversial in my opinion) but also "other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening,
offensive, or harmful. " That open-ended shit is what kills it in my opinion. Now the standards are whatever someone decides is offensive or harmful. Fuck. That. Shit. Either spell it out and come to a consensus or don't.
Is it true Torvalds never used smart quotes?
THIS IS BS.
It's a code of exclusion, not inclusion.
Coding, the internet and open software are based on inclusion where anyone can contribute.
Good lord. That acronym is really getting out of hand.
Guess I slept once or twice since it was last updated. What are I and A and +?
Jesus f' H Christ
God we have a bunch of babies in this world.
If someone writes something really good. Something that's rock solid and secure with minimal resources I could care less if they hump trees and teddy bears with it.
But it has to be code that benefits everyone and not special interest. So a a special interest group should not force their way into every product just to receive representation.
Use it. God the world is f'd up at times