• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

LG 48CX

Am I crazy considering the CX 55" for Netflix 99% of the time? Maybe a ps5 later. Should I be looking at something else?
 
I was interested in a 27" 1440 display. Then, I thought, "why not step up to 32?"

Then I found this thread.

Damn. Gotta do this. (I've got a 65" LG c9 oled. It's outstanding. A 48" for the computer? That'll do...)
 
Just remember... do not expect it to last -forever- without burn in when used for PC desktop use. Take good care of it, expect 4-5 years if you do your part... and if you get more out of it, it's gravy. Be realistic.
 
Advil said:
Just remember... do not expect it to last -forever- without burn in when used for PC desktop use. Take good care of it, expect 4-5 years if you do your part... and if you get more out of it, it's gravy. Be realistic.
Click to expand...

A few weeks back when I was trying to figure out a solution fitting something like the 48" CX into my current horizontally-challenged PC setup, I came up with the following extremely unconventional idea that would allow you to effectively double the panel lifetime...if you're willing to sacrifice resolution and desktop real-estate (though this wacky idea should allow you to use 100% DPI scaling which could certainly help mitigate any reduction in desktop real-estate):

Myself @ http://reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/jbqttf/videocardz_asus_unveils_pg32uqx_4k_144hz_miniled/g8xnclr said:
It might be a silly-looking "solution", but if you happen to be OK with having a horizontal resolution of "only" 2160px, then what if you rotate the 48" LG CX 90 degrees and turn it into a 2160px wide display that should only take up about as much desk space as a 27" monitor?

Normally this would bork up text clarity due to no longer having vertical sub-pixels, but that can be avoided by just setting cleartype to off or greyscale (easily achieved via Better ClearType Tuner).


Heck, if you're OK with having a vertical resolution of "only" 1920p, then you could even use FancyZones combined with a black desktop background to configure things to primarily only use the bottom 1920px half of the screen, effectively resulting in an 9:8 ratio 2160x1920 display while still leaving you the option to use the upper half if you really need it

And then every year just rotate the screen 180 degrees and use the opposite half of the screen, thereby doubling the panel lifetime.


...of course, this all assuming you'd have access to a rotatable VESA mount (or at least one that can be screwed in and used with a 90 degree setup) that can handle the 33 pound weight of the 48" CX (and that's without the included stand attached - it's 42 pounds with the stand attached).
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Finally got home and set the cx up this evening.
It was glorious. The pixel response and black levels got me all teary eyed.

My 15 year old son tested a game with bfi and asked how many tricks he'd have to turn to buy one.

Its almost as smooth as a crt but a lot better looking than I remember them being.
Thats as positive of a review I can give.
 
Advil said:
Just remember... do not expect it to last -forever- without burn in when used for PC desktop use. Take good care of it, expect 4-5 years if you do your part... and if you get more out of it, it's gravy. Be realistic.
Click to expand...
That's why you sell it after 3-4 years and upgrade to the newer set.
 
Nintendo Maniac 64 said:
A few weeks back when I was trying to figure out a solution fitting something like the 48" CX into my current horizontally-challenged PC setup, I came up with the following extremely unconventional idea that would allow you to effectively double the panel lifetime...if you're willing to sacrifice resolution and desktop real-estate (though this wacky idea should allow you to use 100% DPI scaling which could certainly help mitigate any reduction in desktop real-estate):
Click to expand...
This is IMO going too far. If you can put one at a reasonable distance, just buy one, set it to a low brightness, use other mitigation techniques. I use mine for work and personal use 8+ hours a day and so far no issues. I don't really think about it anymore, I am so used to just turning the screen off if I take a longer break. Very easy to do with the remote.

Looking at my current monitors, my oldest LCD is 6 years old. At this rate I will probably replace the CX 48 at around 3-4 years mark, maybe earlier if any significant development happen in monitors. For me those would be in order of preference:
  1. Smaller OLED with similar performance to the CX 48.
  2. 8K ~48" OLED with 120+ Hz support in lower resolutions (e.g. integer scaled 1440p, 4K).
  3. 48" OLED with Picture by Picture features.
  4. 40" 5120x2160 ultrawide LCD with 120+ Hz refresh rate and decent HDR.
  5. 49" super ultrawide 7680x2160.
  6. 240 Hz OLED.
 
What does HDR in windows/games actually do?
Google tells you that a HDR display is requird to use it and that it will makes things look better... but what is going under the hood?
 
elvn said:
NVIDIA is already on it's second iteration of AI upscaling with DLSS 2.0 (as well as pushing raytracing tech for titles that have enough frame rate with or without DLSS). I haven't heard or seen any examples of end user AI upscaling (or raytracing) from AMD or from oculus for that matter, though most major companies like amd, oculus, apple, and console mfgs are supposedly working on AI upscaling tech too. The point is that it looks like NVIDIA is way ahead on those fronts similar to how it forced g-sync/vrr to market. DLSS is a deal maker/breaker for nvidia vs AMD for 4k resolutions on demanding AAA games imo.

In this death stranding video, the frame rate is around 60fpsHz -70fpsHz without DLSS at native 4k with TAA and around 90 - 100 fpsHz with 1400p DLSS quality upscaled to 4k .. and that's with a 2080Ti. DLSS has it's own AA also which is cleaner than TAA, and there are claims that DLSS looks more like downsampling 5k so ends up looking better than native resolution. Also remember that still-shot comparisons of native 4k rez vs quality DLSS, as well as 60fps youtube videos.. often fail to mention that parts of a frame rate graph that are 100fpsHz - 120fpsHz and better on a 120Hz monitor are also cutting the motion blur of viewport movement down 40% to 50% from lower Hz's smearing blur and are nearly doubling to doubling the motion definition (5:3 frames at 100fpsHz and 2:1 frames at 120fpsHz vs 60fpsHz 1:1 baseline). You can't show that in screen shots and 60fps youtube videos.

Click to expand...


FidelityFX CAS





Sony recently patented their own technique

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/so...reconstruction_technology_for_playstation_5/1

Xbox using DirectML
 
jt55 said:
What does HDR in windows/games actually do?
Google tells you that a HDR display is requird to use it and that it will makes things look better... but what is going under the hood?
Click to expand...
What we call sdr (and the srgb colorspace) were standards created with the limitations of the CRT technology.
When other technologies like LCD and plasma started popping up, while they were capable of wide gamut, higher brightness etc, they still had to adapt the old standards based on the CRT limitations.
Some pro products and applications used better standards, but not mainstream products. (Some failed consumer products tried to use wide gamut but were more or less useless).

Now that we are finally rid of CRT's, new standards can take over.
HDR standards are collections of wider colorpace - darker blacks/brighter whites, higher gammacurve. Looks much more realistic.
There are no drawbacks, and sooner or later HDR with be the new default and SDR will go away completely. SDR can also fit within HDR, windows has a HDR->SDR mapping that works very well, though it originally had issues.
 
  • Like
Reactions: elvn
like this
kasakka said:
This is IMO going too far. If you can put one at a reasonable distance, just buy one
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's important to keep in mind that I came up with the idea as a means of solving a horizontal space constraint issue, and the idea of being able to double the panel lifetime was simply an optional side-benefit.
 
Morkai said:
What we call sdr (and the srgb colorspace) were standards created with the limitations of the CRT technology.
When other technologies like LCD and plasma started popping up, while they were capable of wide gamut, higher brightness etc, they still had to adapt the old standards based on the CRT limitations.
Some pro products and applications used better standards, but not mainstream products. (Some failed consumer products tried to use wide gamut but were more or less useless).

Now that we are finally rid of CRT's, new standards can take over.
HDR standards are collections of wider colorpace - darker blacks/brighter whites, higher gammacurve. Looks much more realistic.
There are no drawbacks, and sooner or later HDR with be the new default and SDR will go away completely. SDR can also fit within HDR, windows has a HDR->SDR mapping that works very well, though it originally had issues.
Click to expand...
So Windows will use a wider colorspace, is that all? it would need to be scaled down to srgb for most media/sites anyway, right?
better contrast - does that have anything to do with Windows/software or is it just down to contrast ratio of HDR displays?
 
I don't see what's so hard about using a second monitor for desktop icons and task bar, if one is concerned about burn-in. Most of the people who want to use the CX as a PC monitor already own one. Use that for your static desktop stuff and the CX as a "stage" for your movies and games, or whatever you're working on at the time. Just like elvn said. All it requires is some basic planning for your setup, and minimal effort to keep those static images off the TV. Totally worth it. Once I got comfortable with my setup, I cancelled my extended warranty. Not concerned about burn-in, at all.
 
NukeDukem said:
I don't see what's so hard about using a second monitor for desktop icons and task bar, if one is concerned about burn-in. Most of the people who want to use the CX as a PC monitor already own one. Use that for your static desktop stuff and the CX as a "stage" for your movies and games, or whatever you're working on at the time. Just like elvn said. All it requires is some basic planning for your setup, and minimal effort to keep those static images off the TV. Totally worth it. Once I got comfortable with my setup, I cancelled my extended warranty. Not concerned about burn-in, at all.
Click to expand...

I've mentioned this like 100 times and nobody seems to get it lol. Use👏A👏Different👏Monitor👏. Use the OLED for games/movies only. Whatever if people want to be scared about burn in and miss out on the OLED greatness then be my guest.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Morkai said:
What we call sdr (and the srgb colorspace) were standards created with the limitations of the CRT technology.
When other technologies like LCD and plasma started popping up, while they were capable of wide gamut, higher brightness etc, they still had to adapt the old standards based on the CRT limitations.
Some pro products and applications used better standards, but not mainstream products. (Some failed consumer products tried to use wide gamut but were more or less useless).

Now that we are finally rid of CRT's, new standards can take over.
HDR standards are collections of wider colorpace - darker blacks/brighter whites, higher gammacurve. Looks much more realistic.
There are no drawbacks, and sooner or later HDR with be the new default and SDR will go away completely. SDR can also fit within HDR, windows has a HDR->SDR mapping that works very well, though it originally had issues.
Click to expand...

Still some major trade-offs still like compared to the "standard" of 1ms ~ 1px image persistence for "zero" blur on CRTs. OLED has matched or surpassed the uniformity and response times of CRT where LCD is still generally poor by comparison though. There is BFI but that isn't a good solution imo and is incompatible with HDR. We really need low latency, no artifacts interpolation to multiply a decent frame rate of ~ 100fps (even if hitting 100fps using AI upscaling) several times until we get 100fps x 10 on up to 1000hz monitors so once again we can hit 1ms ~ 1px "zero blur".

wider colorpace - darker blacks/brighter whites, higher gammacurve
Click to expand...
It's not just brighter whites, in fact traditional screens used to clip to white when they hit their peak brightness values. HDR blows the ceiling off of that. It's a much greater range of colors in a wide color space that goes up through a taller range, and that range will get higher on future displays. It's like having a crayonbox of colored crayons with brighter crayons on each tierd taller row of the box. HDR not only standardized having a wider box of crayon columns, it has standardized having many more rows taller of brighter colors allowing a much taller varied range of brighter colors. Yes, brighter whites too. .. as well as a lot of rows lower on the dark end

So HDR is a much taller vertical color volume through a much larger pallete of brighter colors for more detail-in-color and greater realism via highlights, combined with much greater black/dark grey depths for greater detail-in-darks or detail-in-blacks and greater scene realism.

SDR can also fit within HDR, windows has a HDR->SDR mapping that works very well, though it originally had issues.
Click to expand...
HDR movies are mastered at 10,000 nits in studio and mastered at 1000, 4000, or 10,000 nit on uhd discs. Video game devs can design games to map up to 10,000 nits since they are coded rather than mastered real life video.
OLED displays have to tone map since they aren't working on the 1000nit basis of HDR 10 due to OLED lifespans and burn-in limitations .. so they aren't perfect in that regard either. LG's OLED HDR tone mapping is done pretty well now though from what I've read, and LG now allows to you to experiment with tweaking some tone mapping options in the OSD to your taste too. There are some options that attempt to recapture some scene detail lost from tone mapping brighter colors for example. That would probably be for movie modes since you wouldn't want any extra overhead for pc gaming though.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jt55
like this
I bet there is NO chance this gets a deal on cyber Monday right? Amazon offers a free LG XBOOM speaker until 11/21.
 
According to LGD, the cause is the OLED Panel not the OLED TV set. Gamma for OLED is optimized and fixed for 120Hz by establishing a fixed charging time for OLED sub-pixels. VRR is used when the frame rate is less than 120 Hz. When the OLED TV uses framerates less than 120Hz, the gamma curve is inconsistent with the frame rate. For example, a 40Hz frame rate is longer than 120Hz frame rate. Therefore, the lower frame rates results in sub pixels that are overcharged, causing flickering of dark gray images, which is noticeable for dark images rather than bright ones, because human eyes are more sensitive to low gray colors. LGD will likely solve this problem establishing multiple gamma curves optimized for lower frame rates.

https://www.oled-a.org/lgersquos-48rdquo-oled-attracting-game-monitor-buyers_9620.html
 
equinox654 said:
What are yall running oled light and contrast in game?
Click to expand...
100 / 100 is the only correct setting in HDR. Anything else is wrong.

In SDR, brightness is up to you, and contrast depends on your calibration. 36 brightness is ~120 nits.
 
Tgrove said:
FidelityFX CAS





Sony recently patented their own technique

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/so...reconstruction_technology_for_playstation_5/1

Xbox using DirectML
Click to expand...

Digital Foundry has checked that CAS is basically just running at 75% render resolution and upscaling with a sharpening filter. Whole different thing from DLSS so unlike DLSS 2.x it is going to give you worse image quality in exchange for better framerate.

It's good to hear Sony is working on something similar to DLSS. The patent does sound a lot like DLSS 1.x though which is not so promising.

DirectML is just the machine learning platform.
 
  • Like
Reactions: elvn
like this
Tgrove said:
According to LGD, the cause is the OLED Panel not the OLED TV set. Gamma for OLED is optimized and fixed for 120Hz by establishing a fixed charging time for OLED sub-pixels. VRR is used when the frame rate is less than 120 Hz. When the OLED TV uses framerates less than 120Hz, the gamma curve is inconsistent with the frame rate. For example, a 40Hz frame rate is longer than 120Hz frame rate. Therefore, the lower frame rates results in sub pixels that are overcharged, causing flickering of dark gray images, which is noticeable for dark images rather than bright ones, because human eyes are more sensitive to low gray colors. LGD will likely solve this problem establishing multiple gamma curves optimized for lower frame rates.

https://www.oled-a.org/lgersquos-48rdquo-oled-attracting-game-monitor-buyers_9620.html
Click to expand...
How in the world DIDN'T they expect a massive interest for gaming? They are the only sub 50" OLED with 120Hz and VRR available and even marketed it as such?!

They're basically the only ones officially implementing HDMI 2.1 with all marquee features relevant to gaming, lol..
 
Tgrove said:
According to LGD, the cause is the OLED Panel not the OLED TV set. Gamma for OLED is optimized and fixed for 120Hz by establishing a fixed charging time for OLED sub-pixels. VRR is used when the frame rate is less than 120 Hz. When the OLED TV uses framerates less than 120Hz, the gamma curve is inconsistent with the frame rate. For example, a 40Hz frame rate is longer than 120Hz frame rate. Therefore, the lower frame rates results in sub pixels that are overcharged, causing flickering of dark gray images, which is noticeable for dark images rather than bright ones, because human eyes are more sensitive to low gray colors. LGD will likely solve this problem establishing multiple gamma curves optimized for lower frame rates.

https://www.oled-a.org/lgersquos-48rdquo-oled-attracting-game-monitor-buyers_9620.html
Click to expand...

It's interesting because it implies that a g-sync module would actually be useful here, to remedy this cleanly (like variable overdrive on LCDs). Software solutions are going to be hit and miss, I wouldn't be overly optimistic especially on current gen. Maybe the C11 will fix it?

Also the issues might actually be barely noticeable (if at all) when you are staying close to 120hz. Wish I could test all this but still don't have a GPU that can do VRR on this TV.
 
kasakka said:
equinox654 said:
What are yall running oled light and contrast in game?
Click to expand...
100 / 100 in HDR.

30-40 / 90 in SDR.
Click to expand...

Yeah HDR standards are supposed to be based on absolute values on a full scale, unlike SDR that allows you to change the brightness to taste since it is on such a narrow band.

I think they only started letting people change gamma and white point in TV OSDs and game menus for HDR because:
.. many displays labeled "HDR" were really incapable of anywhere near 1000nit
...many displays labled "HDR" were really incapable of side by side contrast
..people were using their HDR displays in improper viewing environments like bright rooms.
..game devs weren't implementing HDR properly - as well as having people play their games with all of the aforementioned inadequacies - so they prob added adjustment tools in game menus as a workaround

elvn said:
HLG is still relative which isn't true form HDR which should have absolute values.

PQ (Perceptual quantization) gamma curve is based on the characteristics of human visual perception.

HLG (Hybrid Log-Gamma) is sort of a sloppy way to make quasi HDR work with inadequate SDR based systems, live un-encoded video feed material, and lower quality quasi-HDR hardware. There's no reason games should be using the makeshift relative version other than that most of the displays people are using for HDR material are inadequate in the first place.


https://www.eizo.com/library/management/ins-and-outs-of-hdr/index2.html/

312563_lkFnvmB.png
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Tgrove said:
According to LGD, the cause is the OLED Panel not the OLED TV set. Gamma for OLED is optimized and fixed for 120Hz by establishing a fixed charging time for OLED sub-pixels. VRR is used when the frame rate is less than 120 Hz. When the OLED TV uses framerates less than 120Hz, the gamma curve is inconsistent with the frame rate. For example, a 40Hz frame rate is longer than 120Hz frame rate. Therefore, the lower frame rates results in sub pixels that are overcharged, causing flickering of dark gray images, which is noticeable for dark images rather than bright ones, because human eyes are more sensitive to low gray colors. LGD will likely solve this problem establishing multiple gamma curves optimized for lower frame rates.

https://www.oled-a.org/lgersquos-48rdquo-oled-attracting-game-monitor-buyers_9620.html
Click to expand...
kalston said:
It's interesting because it implies that a g-sync module would actually be useful here, to remedy this cleanly (like variable overdrive on LCDs). Software solutions are going to be hit and miss, I wouldn't be overly optimistic especially on current gen. Maybe the C11 will fix it?

Also the issues might actually be barely noticeable (if at all) when you are staying close to 120hz. Wish I could test all this but still don't have a GPU that can do VRR on this TV.
Click to expand...

So that quote is about the raised blacks in VRR I'm assuming. The near-black flashing fix that is getting bypassed when VRR is active, which results in near blacks being shown as raised blacks or results in near-black flashing/flickering. That frame duration explanation sounds a lot like why BFI and VRR tech generally don't play together nicely. He mentions low fpsHz in particular. The VRR stuttering on the other hand is happening at over 100fpsHZ so is a separate issue.

Since he is saying the raised blacks/near-blacks flickering is because of the subpixels and only occurs on dark greys ~ "near blacks".. I'm guessing it occurs because of the white subpixel on LG OLEDs and not just the charging duration of oled emitters in general. That's why they released firmware "fix" workarounds for near black flashing in the first place on the C9 and continued the fix in the CX line. VRR mode is just bypassing the workaround"fix" (or nullifying the effect of the workaround due to frame durations?). Regardless it is what it is as an end result. Hopefully they can provide another workaround the makes it look decent or masks it somehow even if it's not a 1:1 perfect fix.

That still doesn't address the bigger issue of VRR stuttering over 100fpsHZ from nvidia 3000 series gpus over hdmi 2.1 (and potentially from any hdmi 2.1 VRR source at over 100fpsHZ as far as we know currently).
 
elvn said:
That still doesn't address the bigger issue of VRR stuttering over 100fpsHZ from nvidia 3000 series gpus over hdmi 2.1 (and potentially from any hdmi 2.1 VRR source at over 100fpsHZ as far as we know currently).
Click to expand...
That is already fixed on .26 firmware with 4k 120Hz 10bit 444 limited. (rgb full 10but has the stuttering issue - but also more banding, so 444 limited might be preferable either way unless they also fix the rgb-full banding in later firmware as well)
 
Morkai said:
That is already fixed on .26 firmware with 4k 120Hz 10bit 444 limited. (rgb full 10but has the stuttering issue - but also more banding, so 444 limited might be preferable either way unless they also fix the rgb-full banding in later firmware as well)
Click to expand...
I'm wondering if there may be more glitches with RGB Full vs RGB Limited other than VRR?
 
Hello!!! I’m looking to buy a new Oled CX. I’m worried about the raised blacks with VRR. With the latest LG C9 firmware they solved this problem? And the flickering image? Do you think xbox series x will have a different VRR? Thanks
 
My boy took my shit away. Horizon zero dawn at 4k 60 hdr on a 2070 super max settings. I can tell its not locked 60 but gsync seems to be doing its job. Feels a hell of a lot smoother than the ps4 pro. Not to mention the image quality difference.

Can't wait for 3080 stock or 6800xt reviews.
 

Attachments

  • 20201101_141131.jpg
    20201101_141131.jpg
    551 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
Morkai said:
That is already fixed on .26 firmware with 4k 120Hz 10bit 444 limited. (rgb full 10but has the stuttering issue - but also more banding, so 444 limited might be preferable either way unless they also fix the rgb-full banding in later firmware as well)
Click to expand...
How are people getting .26FW?
 
netjack said:
How are people getting .26FW?
Click to expand...
.26 was out for a short bit in early October... many grabbed it and applied go US, Canadian, South Korean units. Works fine on all NTSC units. Doesnt work on any EU/EMEA units.

Some guys also hosted the zip archive after LG pulled it (South Korean site now also lists .25 just like US does after it finally caught up).

Waiting on something newer now, hopefully a few more firmware updates before the CXI/CXIIs series steal the show.
 
Perscitus said:
.26 was out for a short bit in early October... many grabbed it and applied go US, Canadian, South Korean units. Works fine on all NTSC units. Doesnt work on any EU/EMEA units.
Click to expand...
I have a EU unit (OLED55CX6LA), the .26 firmware was up briefly on the lg uk site.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top