LG 48CX

elvn

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HDR is about the small highlights, not full screen brightness. We're talking about the sun in a first-person game having the same kind of intensity as in the real world being the target in HDR content. If HDR was mastered correctly in the media you're viewing then any text should not be presented any brighter than it would normally be in SDR.
Agreed.. HDR is about highlights, direct light sources, and details lost in fields of colors where a SDR range screen would otherwise clip or roll off from the higher range of color. The bulk of most scenes is still in SDR and dim ranges. In fact, since HDR using absolute values (at least based on an absolute scale then compressed into a smaller range with tone mapping attempting to preserve detail) - some people complain that the overall scene brightness is too dim because HDR is mastered/designed for a dim to dark theater or home theater viewing environment.

When dolby tested the concept of HDR with 20,000nit screens they made, people continually picked the brightest, most realistic looking images. However regarding the sun.. to be exact, in reality the sun is way higher color brightness than any HDR screen is capable of.

I'm reposting/quoting some color temperature mapped HDR videos, screenshots, and quotes again for good measure in case anyone missed them or wants to review them:
---------------------------------------

This is being posted in relation to the C9, E9 and CX oleds and HDR display tech in general - not trying to continue arguments about any aw55 value, limitations, timeliness. It is what it is.
This HDR temperature mapping is pretty cool to watch. The scene content is broken down as follows:

under 100 nits = grayscale
100nits+ = pure green
200nits = yellow
400nits = orange
800 nits = red
1600nit = pink
4000nit+ = pure white
[HDR] Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker 4K Blu-ray HDR Analysis - HDTVTest

================================

Yes movies are mastered at 10,000nit but UHD discs are mastered at HDR1000 mostly with some HDR 4000 and only a few HDR 10,0000 so far since there isn't any consumer hardware capable of showing it yet.

I'd think mapping HDR 10,000 to 1,000 would be easier. Mapping 10,000 or 1,000 to 750 - 800 nit sounds like it would be trickier. I'll have to read up on that more.

Going from 150 - 200 - 300 nit of color highlights, detail in color in bright areas, and from colored light sources in scenes to 500, 600, 700, and 800 nit on an OLED would be well worth it to me.

HDR is attempting to show more realism in scenes. We are still nowhere near reality at 10,000nit HDR but it is much more realistic than SDR. The Dolby public test I quoted was using 20,000nits.
https://www.theverge.com/2014/1/6/5276934/dolby-vision-the-future-of-tv-is-really-really-bright
"The problem is that the human eye is used to seeing a much wider range in real life. The sun at noon is about 1.6 billion nits, for example, while starlight comes in at a mere .0001 nits; the highlights of sun reflecting off a car can be hundreds of times brighter than the vehicle’s hood. The human eye can see it all, but when using contemporary technology that same range of brightness can’t be accurately reproduced. You can have rich details in the blacks or the highlights, but not both.

So Dolby basically threw current reference standards away. "Our scientists and engineers said, ‘Okay, what if we don’t have the shackles of technology that’s not going to be here [in the future],’" Griffis says, "and we could design for the real target — which is the human eye?" To start the process, the company took a theatrical digital cinema projector and focused the entire image down onto a 21-inch LCD panel, turning it into a
jury-rigged display made up of 20,000 nit pixels. Subjects were shown a series of pictures with highlights like the sun, and then given the option to toggle between varying levels of brightness. Dolby found that users wanted those highlights to be many hundreds of times brighter than what normal TVs can offer: the more like real life, the better."
------------------------------------

HDR Color temperature map based on HDR 10,000 in a game.
You can see that the brighter parts of the scene are mostly 100nit, 150nit until you get to the sun (10,000nit), the sun's corona and the glint of the sun off of the rifle's scope and barrel which are in the 1,000nit range and a little higher on the brightest part of the scope's glint to 4000nit. I'd expect everything above the SDR range in the scene would be tone mapped down in relation to the peak colors (peak color brightnesses or luminances) the OLED or FALD LCD are capable of. That is, rather than scaling the whole scene down in direct ratio and making the SDR range darker which would look horrible.

--------------------------------------
jE1pSgZ.jpg


7X2ncu9.png



kaag2Cm.jpg

----------------

https://www.resetera.com/threads/hdr-games-analysed.23587/


https://www.resetera.com/threads/hdr-games-analyzed-pt-2-now-with-some-ps4-exclusives.27129/page-3
 
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"Different" would be a more apt description. BFI will improve motion clarity, G-Sync will help with smoothness, tearing and input lag. I would recommend BFI for fast paced shooters where you can maintain high fps at all times and G-Sync for anything else.
Actually, if you have your frame rate matched to your refresh rate, BFI is just as "smooth" as Gsync. Like how most of Nintendo's Mario games never drop below 60fps, you can tweak your PC games to stay at your refresh rate all the time. Basically you have to find your minimum FPS, then set your refresh rate close to that, then cap your frame rate to your refresh rate with something like S-sync from RTSS.
 

SixFootDuo

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Since others are commenting on games I thought I would add that I just loaded up Shadow of the Tomb Raider from 2018, oh I just remembered the full name of the game, The Way Home and ...... WOW ....... wow ..... wow .............

First of all, an incredible game thus far, I'm only into it maybe 5 mins but the blacks, the colors, the contrast. Game playing is on a totally new level that I have never experienced before. I've never seen anything like this before.

I am almost positive that game studios use these LG OLED's to master and or, test out their progress in whatever games they are designing. This C9 is incredible. I can only imagine what Cyberpunk 2077 will look like with OLED, HDR, 4K @ 120gz on the new nVidia 3080 ti this Fall, a few short 3 or 4 months away.

For me personally, this is a revolutionary step in gaming. Everything is aligning perfectly. Software and hardware meet, again at a historic point in time. Honestly, this might be another Glide 3D / Quake GL moment for me to see everything come together this Fall as I've mentioned.
 

SoCali

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My Club3D adapter is scheduled for delivery this Friday but my TV is no where to be seen. Anyone order from Bestbuy recently with an ETA soon?
 

jincuteguy

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My Club3D adapter is scheduled for delivery this Friday but my TV is no where to be seen. Anyone order from Bestbuy recently with an ETA soon?
When did you order the Clube 3D adapter? and did you order from Amazon?
 

Brik

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got mine in today and it’s perfect..other than aggresjve dimming while web browsing..anyone know a fix to that?
 

SoCali

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REally? yesterday I checked and it said they don't have in stock until July 18 or something?
Yeah Amazon is usually pretty conservative with ETA's. Every time I order something that won't be in stock until X days, it ships soon after ordering.
 

Rkele

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There was talk about OLED preservation and wallpapers.

I can absolutely recommend Wallpaper Engine. With that I made a playlist of a few hundred wallpapers (animated even) and they change every 2 minutes.
It also has the option to adjust the desktop icon opacity. I have it at 50% now.

It only costs a few bucks/euros.

wpe.jpg
 
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They posted their findings but it seems to completely contradict another guys finding on AVS with his C9 using that adapter who has no issues with it. AVS guy is even using it with a 1080 Ti which isn't even capable of DSC.
I used one. See my post earlier. Remember that the CX48 also doesn't support DSC. Also - my biggest problem was the constant signal loss having to pull power from the adapter to get it back. I've also bought a new 50$ HDMI2.1 cable (1.5m) to make sure that wasn't causing the problem. Same thing.... i've send it back to the supplier.
 

PittyH

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I sent an email to club 3d and got this reply:

Hi can you please clarify some details regarding the CAC-1085?

If I have a 2080ti and a LG C9

Can I enable 4K@120 hz with 4:4:4 Colour and 10bit HDR?

Or is it 8bit?

Does the adapter take the DP1.4a DSC signal and uncompress it to hdmi2.1?

So 25.92 Gbit/s signal from the video card to the adapter, uncompress then convert to 32.27Gbit/s hdmi2.1 from the adapter to the HDMI2.1 port?



There is a lot of talk and confusion going around, some clarification would be great 




Regards,



---------------------------
Hi ****,

Yes the adapter is able to support 4K@120Hz with 444 and 10Bit
The adapter is able to Bypass and Decode
It does note Encode DSC Compression

With the LG C9 the support for 48Gbps full HDMI is there. Please note that newer LG TV from 2020 does not support fully the 48Gbps but only 40Gbps so limitations might be on the supported devices.

We hope this answer your questions.

Best regards

Club3D Support



Also a question on Amazon was answered:

Question: Does this require a tv/screen that supports dsc, or is that just required for the source?
Answer:No it does not require the screen to support DSC the adapter will work as a decoder or bypass when the source is supporting it .
 

Vega

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Well that is good news in theory then. So with DSC, DP 1.4 can output 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR. Then the adapter converts it into a non DSC HDMI 2.1 output which should allow the same 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR. Technically that would require 40.1 Gbps bandwidth, but I'd assume LG wasn't stupid enough to forget that .1 Gbps which would mean kicking down to 8-bit color. But crazier stuff has happened...

Why has no one tested this yet? Must I do everything? ;)
 
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Well that is good news in theory then. So with DSC, DP 1.4 can output 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR. Then the adapter converts it into a non DSC HDMI 2.1 output which should allow the same 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR. Technically that would require 40.1 Gbps bandwidth, but I'd assume LG wasn't stupid enough to forget that .1 Gbps which would mean kicking down to 8-bit color. But crazier stuff has happened...

Why has no one tested this yet? Must I do everything? ;)
Well it doesn't work (i tested it, see my post ealier). I also got a response from Club3d:
"Which means you can do 4K120Hz at 8Bits when you want to do full 444"

Full RGB did work btw...
 

PittyH

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Well it doesn't work (i tested it, see my post ealier). I also got a response from Club3d:
"Which means you can do 4K120Hz at 8Bits when you want to do full 444"

Full RGB did work btw...
Yeah you tested it on a CX, i'm talking about the C9 in a CX thread :p
 

PittyH

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Well that is good news in theory then. So with DSC, DP 1.4 can output 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR. Then the adapter converts it into a non DSC HDMI 2.1 output which should allow the same 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR. Technically that would require 40.1 Gbps bandwidth, but I'd assume LG wasn't stupid enough to forget that .1 Gbps which would mean kicking down to 8-bit color. But crazier stuff has happened...

Why has no one tested this yet? Must I do everything? ;)
Mine is on the way too, but i had to get a US postal forwarding address to get it to Australia, still going be a few weeks for me :(
 
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LG states on their product page:

**Supports up to 40Gbps bandwidth, allowing up to 4K 120Hz 4:4:4 @ 10 bits per component.

So i assume it's rounded down from 40.1Gbps. Still i wasn't able to get ycbcr444.
 
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Found out the issue. Current gen GPU (2080TI) can do RGB or 4K 120 Hz / 144 Hz HDR 10-bit YCbCr422. Not the latter with 444.
 

PittyH

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Found out the issue. Current gen GPU (2080TI) can do RGB or 4K 120 Hz / 144 Hz HDR 10-bit YCbCr422. Not the latter with 444.
Yes the CX will support all the bells and whistles just like the C9 will when hdmi2.1 cards arrive, until then we're all just using hacks to get it.
 

PittyH

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So with the Adapter on a C9, you can only do 4k @ 120hz 4:2:2?
No with the adapter on a C9 we should be able to get full 4k @ 120hz 4:4:4 with HDR. I'm hoping anyway. That's if the nvidia cpanel will allow 4:4:4 10bit, (i've heard rumours the nvidia cpanel won't allow it) we shall see soon.
 

Vega

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Found out the issue. Current gen GPU (2080TI) can do RGB or 4K 120 Hz / 144 Hz HDR 10-bit YCbCr422. Not the latter with 444.
Not true. Club 3D says the input to the adapter (Display port 1.4) accepts a display stream compression signal (DSC), which the RTX series can do. So the bandwidth for 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR should be there on both the input (DSC DP 1.4) and output (HDMI 2.1 without DSC) ends of the adapter.
 

kasakka

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I wish I could get my adapter as I could test it on both CX and C9 using a 2080 Ti but the availability date keeps shifting by a day, was supposed to be Monday, then Tuesday, now Wednesday...

Not true. Club 3D says the input to the adapter (Display port 1.4) accepts a display stream compression signal (DSC), which the RTX series can do. So the bandwidth for 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR should be there on both the input (DSC DP 1.4) and output (HDMI 2.1 without DSC) ends of the adapter.
There has been speculation that there is some issue with Nvidia GPUs supporting 10-bit RGB/4:4:4 over HDMI for some reason, but do support 12-bit. This is part of the whole 40 Gbps vs 48 Gbps controversy as the full 48 Gbps would allow for 12-bit color. I have no idea how that works with an adapter in place because Nvidias does support 10-bit RGB/4:4:4 over DisplayPort.

So with the Club3D adapter in place, does the GPU consider the output device a DP device or a HDMI device? This probably has to do with how display EDID is read which I would guess is just passed straight through so I assume it thinks it's still a HDMI connected device despite the DP port being in use.
 

Armenius

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Found out the issue. Current gen GPU (2080TI) can do RGB or 4K 120 Hz / 144 Hz HDR 10-bit YCbCr422. Not the latter with 444.
Yes, because you are limited to DisplayPort 1.4's bandwidth of 32.4 Gbps with the adapter.
Not true. Club 3D says the input to the adapter (Display port 1.4) accepts a display stream compression signal (DSC), which the RTX series can do. So the bandwidth for 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR should be there on both the input (DSC DP 1.4) and output (HDMI 2.1 without DSC) ends of the adapter.
The 48CX does not support DSC. AVS confirmed this by looking at the EDID.
 

IdiotInCharge

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This BFI vs. G-Sync mess is getting a bit annoying...

I get that they technically can't work together, but BFI shouldn't really be necessary in the first place. We should already be getting 'perfect' motion resolution as available
Neither does the C9, so i don't know how all of this is going to pan out when the adapter arrives.
The C9 supports 48Gbps; so you compress over Displayport to the adapter, and the adapter decompresses and passes to HDMI.

This should work, if I've been properly following along.
 

frisbfreek

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Well that is good news in theory then. So with DSC, DP 1.4 can output 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR. Then the adapter converts it into a non DSC HDMI 2.1 output which should allow the same 4K/120Hz 4:4:4 or RGB at 10-bit HDR. Technically that would require 40.1 Gbps bandwidth, but I'd assume LG wasn't stupid enough to forget that .1 Gbps which would mean kicking down to 8-bit color. But crazier stuff has happened...

Why has no one tested this yet? Must I do everything? ;)
Agreed that it's good news that the adapter can do DSC decoding.

I'm also wondering if the 40.1 Gbps number is correct. 4K @ 120hz 4:4:4 10-bit requires 32.274 Gbps data rate under CVT-RBv2. If the adapter is using HDMI 2.1's encoding scheme (16b/18b), then the bandwidth required is 36.3 Gbps, which should be within spec of both the C9 and CX. Alternatively, if the adapter is using HDMI 2.0's encoding scheme (8b/10b), then it requires 40.3 Gbps, which the CX can't handle. The 40.1 Gbps number implies that it's using HDMI 2.0's encoding, although that seems weird to me as these data rates far exceed HDMI 2.0's limits. Or am I forgetting something in my calculations?
 

kasakka

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This BFI vs. G-Sync mess is getting a bit annoying...

I get that they technically can't work together, but BFI shouldn't really be necessary in the first place. We should already be getting 'perfect' motion resolution as available
OLED still operates the same as any sample-and-hold display (like LCD is) so even though the response time is minimal, to our eyes movement will still blur depending on how high the fps and refresh rate is. BFI breaks this with a rolling scan, resulting in clearer motion.

Even without BFI you still get pretty much the best motion you can get on a 120 Hz sample-and-hold display.
 

tacos4me

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Best Buy appears to have received more units in stock. Here's to hoping they get around to sending me one this time..
 

PittyH

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Agreed that it's good news that the adapter can do DSC decoding.

I'm also wondering if the 40.1 Gbps number is correct. 4K @ 120hz 4:4:4 10-bit requires 32.274 Gbps data rate under CVT-RBv2. If the adapter is using HDMI 2.1's encoding scheme (16b/18b), then the bandwidth required is 36.3 Gbps, which should be within spec of both the C9 and CX. Alternatively, if the adapter is using HDMI 2.0's encoding scheme (8b/10b), then it requires 40.3 Gbps, which the CX can't handle. The 40.1 Gbps number implies that it's using HDMI 2.0's encoding, although that seems weird to me as these data rates far exceed HDMI 2.0's limits. Or am I forgetting something in my calculations?
Yes i think you aren't taking into account that about 25% of the bandwith is reserved for other things, the transport bit rate isn't the same as the data rate.
 

sirsad

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NFM had it in stock for about 15 minutes. I got one with same day shipping (DFW area) so who knows if it was really in stock.

The site had it listed as arriving 7/8 and now says 7/15. So I would check stock on 7/14 at 9 am to see if you get lucky!

EDIT1: Looks like I wasn't fast enough, now there is no delivery expected. Oh well lol.
EDIT2: It is on its way!
 
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elvn

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Since others are commenting on games I thought I would add that I just loaded up Shadow of the Tomb Raider from 2018, oh I just remembered the full name of the game, The Way Home and ...... WOW ....... wow ..... wow .............

First of all, an incredible game thus far, I'm only into it maybe 5 mins but the blacks, the colors, the contrast. Game playing is on a totally new level that I have never experienced before. I've never seen anything like this before.

I am almost positive that game studios use these LG OLED's to master and or, test out their progress in whatever games they are designing. This C9 is incredible. I can only imagine what Cyberpunk 2077 will look like with OLED, HDR, 4K @ 120gz on the new nVidia 3080 ti this Fall, a few short 3 or 4 months away.

For me personally, this is a revolutionary step in gaming. Everything is aligning perfectly. Software and hardware meet, again at a historic point in time. Honestly, this might be another Glide 3D / Quake GL moment for me to see everything come together this Fall as I've mentioned.
Up until I think this past year expensive studio monitors (for mastering movies mostly, videos, commercials, etc.) were OLED but the very high end ones from eizo and sony have switched over to dual layer LCD now since they don't have burn in concerns and can hit 1000nit color volume (and .0003 black depth) without ABL. The % windows and ABL of OLED make it difficult if not impossible to calibrate accurately in HDR (combined with the risk of burn in on extremely expensive studio monitors) so aren't the best for mastering. The dual layer LCDs they are using have very thick housing for the two LCD layers and their aggressive fan cooling since they run hot and use a lot of power in their current state of the tech.

As far as I know there has only been one consumer TV with dual layer LCD tech released in china last year by Hisense, that they call a "ULED", but according to tech news Hisense will release one in the usa with a model named XD9G in the 3rd quarter but it will only be available in 65" size. Tradeoffs for home users with a 65" hisense would be the large size more suited to a living room (the expensive studio monitors are 32" but cost like $25,000), exacerbated viewing angle issues outside of direct viewing, LCD response times. No word on input lag or VRR yet but they did say 120hz 4k, over 1000nit color volume and .0003 black depth. I'm still keeping an eye on the tech as an option to weigh vs oled or fald LCD for my living room display in the future. My living room tv is almost entirely used for movies and videos/streams.



I'm looking forward to getting an oled for my pc in november. I'm leaning toward the 48" CX since the size is more manageable but if a 55" Vizio ticks all the boxes and at the right price I can make the 55" size work so I'll see how it pans out and with deals/pricing.
 
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frisbfreek

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Yes i think you aren't taking into account that about 25% of the bandwith is reserved for other things, the transport bit rate isn't the same as the data rate.
You're saying there's ~25% of additional bandwidth consumed for other things that's on top of the encoding overhead? I haven't seen any of this in the specs. Do you have any material that sheds more light on this?
 

Armenius

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Agreed that it's good news that the adapter can do DSC decoding.

I'm also wondering if the 40.1 Gbps number is correct. 4K @ 120hz 4:4:4 10-bit requires 32.274 Gbps data rate under CVT-RBv2. If the adapter is using HDMI 2.1's encoding scheme (16b/18b), then the bandwidth required is 36.3 Gbps, which should be within spec of both the C9 and CX. Alternatively, if the adapter is using HDMI 2.0's encoding scheme (8b/10b), then it requires 40.3 Gbps, which the CX can't handle. The 40.1 Gbps number implies that it's using HDMI 2.0's encoding, although that seems weird to me as these data rates far exceed HDMI 2.0's limits. Or am I forgetting something in my calculations?
SDR should fit, but from what I've gathered HDR will not. HDR supposedly adds a 10% overhead to your total bandwidth. Some sources even say 20%.
 
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