Na, I've got a X940C.
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Na, I've got a X940C.
Darunion
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okay can we lock this thread already? My wife is getting pissed at how each time I read it, i add things to my amazon wishlist.
kthxbai
kthxbai
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Edit: So a bit of an update. Having audiophile friends will cost you money. Zarathustra[H] and cageymaru linked me over to this Dayton Audio 12" sub at Parts Express on sale for $85 (and I found a $5 coupon) with $7 shipping (which got here in a few days. Hell of a deal. Got it in and hooked up yesterday. Pretty sweet sounds. Review here.
Nenu
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Thats incredible value !!!
Darunion
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Nice! I had just picked up an infinity 12" sub a month ago, probably too early to consider other ones huh? lol
It is coming time for a new receiver though, any suggestions to upgrade a yamaha HTR-5830? Is DTS:X or atmos worth investing in?
EDIT: More often than not I typically use it on stereo mode with no processing, sound seems crisper.
It is coming time for a new receiver though, any suggestions to upgrade a yamaha HTR-5830? Is DTS:X or atmos worth investing in?
EDIT: More often than not I typically use it on stereo mode with no processing, sound seems crisper.
NickJames
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Shit I was looking for a new sub for my home theater. $85 was a steal, damn wish I had caught that.
![Zarathustra[H]](https://cdn.hardforum.com/data/avatars/m/9/9298.jpg?1707758471){kind=avatar}
Zarathustra[H]
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Tell me about it. 12" 90db peak sub that goes down to 25hz...
...for $80 + shipping.
I like my 400W sealed SVS SB12-NSD and all, but this Dayton puts out almost as good numbers, if slightly less flat due to the lack of DSP, for a literal fraction of the price. I could have saved a good chunk of money.
Chaos Machine
Gawd
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Zarathustra[H]
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Yup and at that price, why stop at one?
For near field, one is fine.
If I were filling a HT room, I'd definitely get a couple. For HT though, I'd probably want to go a little lower. I'm eyeballing some 16hz subs, but now we're talking real money.
Zarathustra[H]
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Hehe, yeah, I can only imagine what that thing would cost built up in a box with an amp. I wanted to try my hand at DIY, but I think I already have too many projects.
I was thinking of going with a couple of these, due to their nice low extension to 16hz, with a minimal footprint. My room isn't huge, so they should fill it quite nicely, they may even be too much, and will run significantly turned down, but its better to have room to grow.
Footprint is important in the "significant other compatibility" equation.
I have been rocking some JBL L200b's that I refoamed off a Crown XLS 1500. I am currently using a Asus Xonar Essence STX and the RCA outs. I think my next tweak will be a new DAC that is external. Myabe a Schiit Bifrost or something to get a slightly cleaner signal.
I will never use optical because it only supports 2 channels of uncompressed PCM audio which would not be acceptable for me. I use my computer/gaming rig as a HTPC box too and for that I need HDMI to get Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.
Computer (Nvidia GTX960) -->(HDMI) --> X4000 --> (HDMI)--> TV
My audio setup is for my Computer and TIVO.
Cans/Headphones:
Sennheiser HD600 with Creative Labs E5 Amp via USB. Yes, CL E5 amp does a good job with the built in dac. As a plus it has a built in mic. I use the cans for mechwarrior online because of the mic and rest of the time for music. The HD600's need (should have) 300 ohm amp and the CL supports up to 600.
Most other games I use the speakers below.
HTPC part:
Receiver:
Denon X4000
Speakers:
Definitive Technology
Front Center: DT cs8060hd
Front Left/Right: DT bp8040st
Left/Right Surround: DT SR8040
Left/Right Rear: DT Studio Monitor 450
Your notice that I do not have a sub listed. This is because the bp8040's have sub built in with there own RCA ports (speaker high level part I use banana plugs). My setup is really 7.2 since the Denon x4000 see's both built in subs. The X4000 calibrates each sub separately via Audyssey MultEQ XT32.
(Not my picture)
Next year I want to upgrade my TV, receiver and rig. I digress, for the last 5 years these 8040's have given me ample supply of bass. I really recommend these DT speakers though you would need the newer 90 series ie 9040.
Computer (Nvidia GTX960) -->(HDMI) --> X4000 --> (HDMI)--> TV
My audio setup is for my Computer and TIVO.
Cans/Headphones:
Sennheiser HD600 with Creative Labs E5 Amp via USB. Yes, CL E5 amp does a good job with the built in dac. As a plus it has a built in mic. I use the cans for mechwarrior online because of the mic and rest of the time for music. The HD600's need (should have) 300 ohm amp and the CL supports up to 600.
Most other games I use the speakers below.
HTPC part:
Receiver:
Denon X4000
Speakers:
Definitive Technology
Front Center: DT cs8060hd
Front Left/Right: DT bp8040st
Left/Right Surround: DT SR8040
Left/Right Rear: DT Studio Monitor 450
Your notice that I do not have a sub listed. This is because the bp8040's have sub built in with there own RCA ports (speaker high level part I use banana plugs). My setup is really 7.2 since the Denon x4000 see's both built in subs. The X4000 calibrates each sub separately via Audyssey MultEQ XT32.
(Not my picture)
Next year I want to upgrade my TV, receiver and rig. I digress, for the last 5 years these 8040's have given me ample supply of bass. I really recommend these DT speakers though you would need the newer 90 series ie 9040.
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MikeTrike
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I'll bite... Here's my Amazon audio rig.
Tube Amp
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N3YIGXZ/
Speaker Cables
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I52I2PU/
Tower Speakers
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QL0XXQ/
Audio Cable
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI89NPE/
Ground Loop Isolator
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L1NP7YI/
Subwoofer Pre-Out RCA Cables
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016QVZEXY/
My desk is a bit messier now, hopefully you get the idea of how magnificent it sounds...
Tube Amp
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N3YIGXZ/
Speaker Cables
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I52I2PU/
Tower Speakers
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QL0XXQ/
Audio Cable
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI89NPE/
Ground Loop Isolator
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L1NP7YI/
Subwoofer Pre-Out RCA Cables
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016QVZEXY/
My desk is a bit messier now, hopefully you get the idea of how magnificent it sounds...
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Chaos Machine
Gawd
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Yeah, you can always build your own too. 18" driver with 12 cubic feet of space and some porting should do it!
Zarathustra[H]
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Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
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I will never use optical because it only supports 2 channels of uncompressed PCM audio which would not be acceptable for me. I use my computer/gaming rig as a HTPC box too and for that I need HDMI to get Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.
Computer (Nvidia GTX960) -->(HDMI) --> X4000 --> (HDMI)--> TV
My audio setup is for my Computer and TIVO.
Cans/Headphones:
Sennheiser HD600 with Creative Labs E5 Amp via USB. Yes, CL E5 amp does a good job with the built in dac. As a plus it has a built in mic. I use the cans for mechwarrior online because of the mic and rest of the time for music. The HD600's need (should have) 300 ohm amp and the CL supports up to 600.
Most other games I use the speakers below.
HTPC part:
Receiver:
Denon X4000
Speakers:
Definitive Technology
Front Center: DT cs8060hd
Front Left/Right: DT bp8040st
Left/Right Surround: DT SR8040
Left/Right Rear: DT Studio Monitor 450
Your notice that I do not have a sub listed. This is because the bp8040's have sub built in with there own RCA ports (speaker high level part I use banana plugs). My setup is really 7.2 since the Denon x4000 see's both built in subs. The X4000 calibrates each sub separately via Audyssey MultEQ XT32.
(Not my picture)
Next year I want to upgrade my TV, receiver and rig. I digress, for the last 5 years these 8040's have given me ample supply of bass. I really recommend these DT speakers though you would need the newer 90 series ie 9040.
Those are cool solution, and can work well in some applications. Boston Acoustics and Cambridge Soundworks used to make towers with built in subs, but these have fallen out of favor in later years, as many have pointed out that the ideal location for your main left and right channels isn't always the same as your ideal location for your subs
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Another HTPC guy here. I've got the following set up in my living room (yes, I am single...) and don't know if I'll ever go back to headphones:
HTPC: core i7 with a 1080 vid card, BRD, 32gb of ram, 8.5 TB of HD space, etc.
TV: 65" Sony 4K (XBR65X850B)
Receiver: Denon 3313ci
Speakers:
Fronts: Polk Rti-10
Center: Polk Csi-3
Rears: Polk Fxi-3
Sub: Polk DSW Pro 550 Wi (10" sub)
-----------------------------------
Retail on the sound set up would've been a few grand, but I got just about everything from open box/ scratch and dent sales at a local Crutchfield outlet. A small dent in one of the corners of my Rti-10's resulted in me getting a pair for $375....definitely a great deal. I'd also recommend looking on the used audio forums (Audiogon comes to mind), as you can find some deals for well cared for, good gear on the cheap.
I'd like to add a larger center (Csi-5) and a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x5 amp to the equation, but would then have to buy a new entertainment center......
HTPC: core i7 with a 1080 vid card, BRD, 32gb of ram, 8.5 TB of HD space, etc.
TV: 65" Sony 4K (XBR65X850B)
Receiver: Denon 3313ci
Speakers:
Fronts: Polk Rti-10
Center: Polk Csi-3
Rears: Polk Fxi-3
Sub: Polk DSW Pro 550 Wi (10" sub)
-----------------------------------
Retail on the sound set up would've been a few grand, but I got just about everything from open box/ scratch and dent sales at a local Crutchfield outlet. A small dent in one of the corners of my Rti-10's resulted in me getting a pair for $375....definitely a great deal. I'd also recommend looking on the used audio forums (Audiogon comes to mind), as you can find some deals for well cared for, good gear on the cheap.
I'd like to add a larger center (Csi-5) and a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x5 amp to the equation, but would then have to buy a new entertainment center......
Zarathustra[H]
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Looks like a pretty nice setup.
I built my first HT setup (5.1, I don't have space for 7.1 right now) not too long ago, with some help from our forums and AVSForums.
I wound up with:
TV: Panasonic 65" Plasma (already had this)
Receiver: Denon AVR-x1300W
Fronts: Infinity Primus 360 Towers.
Center: Infinity Beta C250
Surrounds: Micca MB42X
Sub: SVS SB12-NSD
It sounds pretty damned good, especially considering I got my left, right and center for $80 combined locally on Craigslist, but I have been bitten by the bug, and am looking forward to future upgrades.
The Infinity's sound amazing in movies, but for music they are almost a little sibilant, and have a weak midrange, which I am looking to fix.
I'm thinking of trying to get a used RBH 441-SE center (they discontinued these in 2015, but they are pretty awesome from my reading), and a set of RBH R55ti Towers, and then adding two SVS PC-2000 subs.
I'm still scheming though. Haven't made any final decisions.
I'd really like to use a set of dipoles as my surrounds for a more diffuse and enveloping sound, but I just can't seem to figure out any way to make them work in my complicated room.
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r00k
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Same here. I bought my z-5300e setup around the same time I started my [H] membership. They still bang away, loud and clear. Admittedly, the sub is centered at a higher frequency than I like, and ya always have to turn it down on the controller to get it balanced to the satellites, but it's one great setup!
Deftech super cubes have been reviewed to hit (or very near) their rated specs and go down lower than 14hz if my memory serves me and are reasonably priced. Shit I'm not even using a sub in my main setup because I have three between the towers and center of their BP series (and the atmos speakers fit well on the towers if you're into that). Those are all rated to 20hz even without a proper box since they are firing out of the tower/center enclosures.
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Sure...but we all want to know where to get the 'MERICA! lamp.
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Good choice on the Denon. I have a similar receiver (I went with the 3300) and the sound processing is great. I had an entry Yamaha Adventage prior and loved it, but the Denon In Command seems flatter which I prefer. With the power of your fronts are you experience any lack from the rears?
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I just ran a set of speaker wire to the inputs. Zarathustra[H] told me after I got them wired (had to drill some holes in my built in desk to make it all happen) that I could run wires to the bookshelf speakers from the Sub to those and like get better crossover performance.
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Thanks. Sounds effin' sweet too.
Zarathustra[H]
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Nah, Audyssey balances them all really well, and even turned up to almost painful levels I don't have any unbalanced lack of output on any channel.
In fact, most in the know seem to recommend not worrying too much about the surrounds, as they are really just for effects, with very little mid or bass coming out of them, so putting great speakers on the surrounds is really just wasting them.
Even my Micca MB42X's are probably overkill. They are great little bookshelf speakers.
If anything, the problem I have with them is that the sound is a tad direct, meaning that if I sit left of center, I mostly hear the left, and if I sit right of center I mostly hear the right.
I'm going to try to elevate them a little.higher to try to reduce this problem. I hear that dipoles can fix this all together, but they probably ably wouldn't work in my room with the surrounds so close to the rear corners.
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Yes. At the moment.Awesome Sub... but why do you have a pic on the front page with a bare motherboard sitting on your hardwood floor next to it? Are you that overloaded with hardware that you have no where else to store it?
You aren't going to fix that without using some type of wave guide. There are some dome tweeters that have better dispersion but to be frank you really need to use a wave guide. Or go high end AMT/ribbon, I'd still use a wave guide though lol.
lol according to their sweeps (which I think are suspect) your sealed 12 hits 16hz at the same exact point as that ported tube (it looks like the same driver).
I'll probably use a 21" like the B&C in my next build. My next location will most likely have a MUCH larger family room so my single 18 won't cut it.
https://www.parts-express.com/bc-21sw115-4-21-professional-neodymium-subwoofer-4-ohm--294-6011
HammerSandwich
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Dipole (& bipole) surrounds solve that problem by firing front & back (along the side walls) instead of toward the listening position. They create only ambience, not direct sound.
Test by aiming your surrounds straight up. If you can see the drivers from your listening position, raise the speakers until you can't.
Zarathustra[H]
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Hmm.
I just looked at their quoted +/- 3db figures. 23hz for the little sealed 12" cube, and 16hz for the ported PC-2000 tube.
The thing is, I am perfectly happy with the AMOUNT of bass I'm getting from that single sealed cube. I just wish it went down a little deeper, and I want to add a second one to spread it out. I don't feel like I really need any more power.
Aren't there any modestly powered ways to get down to 15-16hz or so?
Also, +/- 3dB figures, those are pretty much the same as F3 right? So on the kit we discussed earlier with the um18-22 driver and sealed box kit, its quoted F3 is only 27hz, which would actually be worse than what I have now?
Another downside with the kits is that everyone recommends these professional amps, but none of them seem to have auto power on. Having to manually power on the subs when in use is not likely to pass the "wife test", nor is having a 2400W amp on 24/7 going to pass the "power bill" test.
I am all sorts of confused regarding all of this. Maybe I should start a separate thread...
djoye
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I would have bought at least three of those Dayton subs if I knew they were on sale. I've had one of the older 12" models for a long time now and I like it; I need a pair of matching subs for my 7.2 receiver downstairs.
HammerSandwich
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EQ. If you have enough headroom, there's no real downside here.
Yes, F3 is the -3dB point. The UM kit performs like this, and you can see it rolls off below 40Hz. (It could use a bigger box.) But an 18" driver - especially with 22mm excursion! - can move some serious air, which lets you add more EQ than with a smaller driver. If you won't ever need more output, using 2-3 smaller subs (to handle room modes) will give better results than 1 big sub.
True for class A, but modern pro amps are usually class D. A Crown XLS idles around 25W.
Zarathustra[H]
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That makes sense. Will an Audyssey do this for me automatically when it checks the room, or is this going to have to be manual? What kind of (affordable) measurement equipment might I need to plot out how it performs so I know what to EQ?
Ah, ok, I see how that works. So judging by that chart, if I really don't care about having more than ~90db, I could eq it flat all the way down to 11hz if I wanted to... or 13hz at 92.5 db....
Could I get away with a smaller amp if I did all of this EQ? Or would I still need one of those massive pro amps?
That um18-22 in that sealed encloure REALLY tapers off quite a lot, compared to the ultra flat response of my SVS SB12-NSD. Why is that? Is it just that the DSP in the SVS unit has already been tweaked to EQ it for flatness?
Fair enough. 25w is still ~$45 per year in power if you leave it on 24/7, but Its not horrible I guess.
You don't need anymore power for what you are currently getting, but you need a shit load more power to hear/feel 16hz. To get 16 Hz audible is quite a feet, I don't even have very good 16hz and that's with an 18" and 1200watts.
Yea put the sub under your butt or behind your back.
That is what F3 means, the sub (at what ever power) starts rolling off 3db and F10 is 10db. Your SVS is greatly EQ'd to show a F3 of 23hz, this sacrifices your sensitivity up top. The listed F3 is greatly exaggerated, the UM18 has a hump in its response between the 30's and 50's, the F3 is more like 33 without EQ and you could EQ this down further.
Hammer already answered this, my 3000dsp's fan isn't even on when idle.
What is a good sub with a lot of punch on the low end? I have a svs pb 1000 i think it is the 10 in one with the matching towers and centre. I find the highs to be ear piecing and a lack of base in the low end when i get in to the 75 to 80bd range I run the sub at 50% like svs recommends much higher then that and it just gets a boomy mess.
Zarathustra[H]
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Is it on a Home Theater Receiver?
Often people get unsatisfying bass and ear piercing highs if they run their room correction algorithm with the microphone too close to the rear wall.
Try re calibrating but keeping the microphone at least two feet away from the rear wall.
HammerSandwich
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Not sure how Audyssey handles deepest bass, because I'm more of a 2-channel, not HT, guy. Boost makes overload more likely, so it may play "safe." Powered subs include limiters to prevent damage, but Audyssey can't know where that line lies.
Most folks will recommend Room EQ Wizard (aka REW) with a UMIK/UMM-6. If you already have an audio interface with 48V phantom power, save $30 with the EMM/ECM versions.
I haven't heard squat about that $16 phone mic, though it claims calibration to 18Hz & Dayton's pretty reliable. Might be worth a shot.
That's basically it. A company called Bag End has subs that are flat to, IIRC, 8Hz at low levels. As the signal gets louder, they throw out the deepest frequencies to stay just in the safe zone. So a 110dB peak might go only to 40Hz, etc. You want to do the same thing with static settings & a careful touch on the volume knob.
The pro amp's still a good idea, because boost requires power. And it goes up fast: 3dB = 2x; 10dB = 10x. Plus, an XLS or iNuke is cheap power. Double plus, you won't have to sell it when you upgrade to an IB with 8x 18s.
This should all get a lot clearer if you spend a couple hours playing with a box sim, such as WinISD. Pay attention to transfer function (i.e., frequency response), excursion & amplifier VA as you change EQ, and it'll start to make sense.
A DSP iNuke could work well here, since your dedicated sub amp would do the EQ. Not sure if those amps let you boost below 20Hz, though you could reduce higher frequencies instead. Trim, you want to take over?
As Trim say, SVS calibrated the SB12's EQ, which is exactly why powered subs include DSP now. The UM18 kit is a driver & a box.