Diablo 3 Discussion Thread

It's got good, smooth gameplay. The production value feels very high--typical of Blizz games.

As mentioned before, it doesn't. The beginning is the most fun (imo), as you're actively unlocking new moves to incorporate into your build. For this short part of the game, it feels like there's progression.

I never had a problem with the RMAH. I typically play self-found in these kinda games anyway.

The itemization--yes. That's been a problem since day one, and while they've taken some steps to help it out, they have a looooong way to go.

The real problem, IMO, is the removal of Talent Trees, the oversimplification of gems (only 4 kinds now) and crafting (no more cube), no charms.... basically all the things which made one character stand out from another--they removed.

Remember all those quests that gave you unique things in D2? A stat point, an item upgrade at the smithy, an extra socket quest, etc.. just gold rewards in D3 for all quests.

...which is why i think the CoD of aRPG's is actually a good comparison. They stripped out most of the game's elements which have you sitting in town pondering builds, choosing items, gems, crafting (or cubing)... So that what you're left with is a more action-oriented aRPG... similar to how CoD is the most action-oriented FPS.

I really hated the removal of talent tree's at first. But its not too bad once you get used to it. If they did a better job with the skills and items it would be even better. If they had better synergies between skills it would also be better. I mean the wizard has an ability that amplifies fire damage...but doesn't have shit for fire spells. Building a synergistic fire, ice, lighting, or arcane build as a wizard is dam hard and it shouldn't be....the demon hunter has better elemental abilities then the wizard does.

What we(ARPG FANS) need is a game company like Valve or Atlus to make an ARPG. A game company with heart, ability, and money needs to join this genre. Basically we need competition to keep blizzard on it's A game....like a Dark Souls of the ARPG world.

the successes and failures of TL2, PoE, and D3 are likely breading a monster of a ARPG game in the future right now.....or at least I'd like to think so.
 
USPS tracking shows my copy of D3 is out for delivery so it should be waiting for me when I get home from work later. I cant wait to get it loaded up and start playing.
 
USPS tracking shows my copy of D3 is out for delivery so it should be waiting for me when I get home from work later. I cant wait to get it loaded up and start playing.

If you can find a friend who hasn't played the game as well I'd recommend playing through the game with someone else.

My first time through the game I had a party of 4 all on Ventrillo the entire time and it transforms the game from good to completely bad ass. I'll never forget the day my group of 4 ran into soul lashers in Inferno for the first time.....about 5 minutes of complete rape hilarity before we gave up (never ended up killing the basterds)....now they fixed the rape though.
 
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...which is why i think the CoD of aRPG's is actually a good comparison. They stripped out most of the game's elements which have you sitting in town pondering builds, choosing items, gems, crafting (or cubing)...

Hey you're exactly right, they took the itemization out of an itemized game :rolleyes:

I am glad you saw it too.
 
Here's an example of all the "pondering" I do with my build in town.

TR is a very popular build, the two main skills are sweeping wind and tempest rush. I'm constantly going between the runes of these two skills.

Sweeping wind
20 second duration instead of 6 seconds-the most viable rune without 4pc Innas. The cost to keep it up without the set bonus is too high, and its also too expensive to use to open with on an elite (75 spirit normal-5with set bonus)

Larger radius- at the highest dps with 4pc Innas this is probably the best bet. You spend less time turning around to kill everything with TR if you have the dps to off them with sweeping wind alone. I don't know what the dps threshold would be, but I don't know if I can reach it I'm HC for MP1

Higher damage- with a high enough dps you could skip on an elite killer move such as wave of light, and only worry about having to break even with spirit rush spirit regen.

3 spirit sec at 3 stacks. A good option with 4 pc Innas, you can drop circular breathing and pick up a mantra more geared for offense or survival.

Cyclone on crit- haven't played around with this s much, my crit doesn't seem high enough for this one to pay off. Getting more crit will cause me tosacrifice a lot of survival (nat 2 pc for IK 2 pc)


Tempest rush
Cheaper channeling cost - a good entry rune when spirit/sec is too low for other runes. It's also good to regen spirit between packs so your bells are ready to drop without spirit generating attacks. Some builds put me at 14 spirit/second, so I'm always ready to drop a few bells.

Faster movement - this would be ideal if dps and spirit regen was high enough. It's pretty fast, so careless misuse could throw you into too much trouble

Reduced damage while channeling - I haven't used this, but its definately an option vs ubers to get out of sticky situations. You don't need unlimited channeling vs ubers, so this would be more of a survival get out of sticky situation skill than a bread and butter skill.

The other two runes seem utterly useless. I would like to see a damage focus rune instead (like enemy takes more damage, or straight up higher damage rune).
 
...which is why i think the CoD of aRPG's is actually a good comparison. They stripped out most of the game's elements which have you sitting in town pondering builds, choosing items, gems, crafting (or cubing)... So that what you're left with is a more action-oriented aRPG... similar to how CoD is the most action-oriented FPS.

It's like CoD in that it tried for a broader appeal. Other than that, that was an utterly ham-fisted comparison. As was the comparison of a single ARPG game that's been out for a year with a series of FPS games that have basically turned into the Madden of the FPS genre, rehashing content for like 6 years. You might even say that D3 is the Madden of ARPGs...except you wouldn't.

When I stopped playing D3 for about 6 months I would check the forums to see what was up and perhaps discuss design or design potential. For some reason other people that don't play the game feel the need to drop in just to shit on the game and the people discussing the game. Not sure why that is.
 
Here's an example of all the "pondering" I do with my build in town.

That's groovy. Unfortunately whenever i tried to tweak my wizard build, it was just utter shit and i went back to what works.

(go try to make a ice, lightening, arcane, or fire mage)

Arcane is the only one that kinda works, but compared to other classes (monk lol), orb seriously needs a damage buff.

It's like CoD in that it tried for a broader appeal. Other than that, that was an utterly ham-fisted comparison. As was the comparison of a single ARPG game that's been out for a year with a series of FPS games that have basically turned into the Madden of the FPS genre, rehashing content for like 6 years. You might even say that D3 is the Madden of ARPGs...except you wouldn't.

When I stopped playing D3 for about 6 months I would check the forums to see what was up and perhaps discuss design or design potential. For some reason other people that don't play the game feel the need to drop in just to shit on the game and the people discussing the game. Not sure why that is.

I think the comparison is right on. Little down-time, action packed. More action, less rpg.
 
Here's an example of all the "pondering" I do with my build in town.

TR is a very popular build, the two main skills are sweeping wind and tempest rush. I'm constantly going between the runes of these two skills.

Sweeping wind
20 second duration instead of 6 seconds-the most viable rune without 4pc Innas. The cost to keep it up without the set bonus is too high, and its also too expensive to use to open with on an elite (75 spirit normal-5with set bonus)

Larger radius- at the highest dps with 4pc Innas this is probably the best bet. You spend less time turning around to kill everything with TR if you have the dps to off them with sweeping wind alone. I don't know what the dps threshold would be, but I don't know if I can reach it I'm HC for MP1

Higher damage- with a high enough dps you could skip on an elite killer move such as wave of light, and only worry about having to break even with spirit rush spirit regen.

3 spirit sec at 3 stacks. A good option with 4 pc Innas, you can drop circular breathing and pick up a mantra more geared for offense or survival.

Cyclone on crit- haven't played around with this s much, my crit doesn't seem high enough for this one to pay off. Getting more crit will cause me tosacrifice a lot of survival (nat 2 pc for IK 2 pc)


Tempest rush
Cheaper channeling cost - a good entry rune when spirit/sec is too low for other runes. It's also good to regen spirit between packs so your bells are ready to drop without spirit generating attacks. Some builds put me at 14 spirit/second, so I'm always ready to drop a few bells.

Faster movement - this would be ideal if dps and spirit regen was high enough. It's pretty fast, so careless misuse could throw you into too much trouble

Reduced damage while channeling - I haven't used this, but its definately an option vs ubers to get out of sticky situations. You don't need unlimited channeling vs ubers, so this would be more of a survival get out of sticky situation skill than a bread and butter skill.

The other two runes seem utterly useless. I would like to see a damage focus rune instead (like enemy takes more damage, or straight up higher damage rune).

And that is just with this 1 play style. If you are using combination strike you have to figure out even more about what to use. A lot of thought can and should go into what you are using.

But from my experience the Monk is the best class for build theory....and pretty much the best class overawe.

In terms of fixed skills and dynamic skills I was finally sold on dynamic being better than fixed with the passive Guiding Light.

This is a multiplier skill only and I'd never want to waste skill points on a multiplier only skill....But being able to pop this bitch on when someone joins my game is great.

Mix Guiding Light '20% more damage' + Breath of heaven ' 15% more damage' gives you a heal spell to pop every 15 seconds to add an additional 35% more damage for you and 20% more for the team.

One of the best passives for Soft Core.

That's groovy. Unfortunately whenever i tried to tweak my wizard build, it was just utter shit and i went back to what works.

(go try to make a ice, lightening, arcane, or fire mage)

Arcane is the only one that kinda works, but compared to other classes (monk lol), orb seriously needs a damage buff.

Yeah the wizard has it a bit rough right now. There is still some theory to be had but it is nowhere near the level of a monk. This is exacerbated by the power of a critical mass and Akon wizards. Makes other builds hard to justify and play. Too me the wizard is the biggest let down in terms of skills. Akon mode, disintegrate, and ray of frost are all pretty much the same attack. Arcane Orb uses too much Arcane and not enough damage. Arcane torrent is flat out stupid......I mean 3 of the 4 secondary skills are channeling skills how fucking stupid is that.

Turn Ray of Frost into Frost Orb.
Turn Disintegrate into Fire Ball.
Turn Arcane Torrent into a bad ass lightning attack either a bolt from the sky like meteor but without the wait or something like Chain Lightning.
Up damage on Arcane orb.

Wizard done next class.
 
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Hey you're exactly right, they took the itemization out of an itemized game :rolleyes:

I am glad you saw it too.

If you want to know how bad itemization really is just play self found like I am right now. I am progressing fairly well (in Hell ACT II right now with my DH) but have come to realize just how much they skewed drops to items other than the character your playing and can't use. I think they said they wanted you to play multiple characters at once, is why they did it that way. I don't understand some of the stupid decisions in this kind of thinking? They clearly wanted you to pay to win as most players have a favorite character and this goes against every every reason for self found....
 
If you want to know how bad itemization really is just play self found like I am right now. I am progressing fairly well (in Hell ACT II right now with my DH) but have come to realize just how much they skewed drops to items other than the character your playing and can't use. I think they said they wanted you to play multiple characters at once, is why they did it that way. I don't understand some of the stupid decisions in this kind of thinking? They clearly wanted you to pay to win as most players have a favorite character and this goes against every every reason for self found....

It's weird, I had a similar experience on many of my characters, yet on my Monk daibos and fist weapons were dropping like candy - to the extent that I noticed it even though I'd already bought a weapon and wasn't in need of an upgrade.

Part of me is willing to believe that the devs may have fixed it to a certain extent. The other part of me just thinks it's really horrible drop RNG similar to crafting any of the 4/5/6 random property items.
 
If you want to know how bad itemization really is just play self found like I am right now. I am progressing fairly well (in Hell ACT II right now with my DH) but have come to realize just how much they skewed drops to items other than the character your playing and can't use. I think they said they wanted you to play multiple characters at once, is why they did it that way. I don't understand some of the stupid decisions in this kind of thinking? They clearly wanted you to pay to win as most players have a favorite character and this goes against every every reason for self found....

I don't think it works as you are thinking despite how it seems. You are playing 1 class out of 5. Your odds of getting gear specific to your class is 20%. Which does mean that 80% of the class specific gear you find is in fact for other classes but there isn't any malicious intent to this....just bad item design.

And out of that 20% you have even less odds of rolling the stats needed for that class.

everyone (blizzard included) is in agreement they completely fucked up pretty much everything about the items in this game...

At minimum class specific items should only have class specific stats....Wizard helms should only be allowed to roll INT, VIT, and wizard skills none of this Str,Dex, + 10 % to bash bull shit.

Its possible blizzard planned the items this way in order to force Auction House utilization ... I am of the opinion that they just fucked up the item design which unintentionally made the auction house more of a requirement than it otherwise would have been...them having planed the fucked up items system to maximize AH is giving blizzard way too much credit IMO.


there is a silver lining to the extremely bad Item design.....It offers a near limitless gear improvements as rolling 'perfect' gear is pretty much impossible.....if item grinding is your thing.
 
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Turn Ray of Frost into Frost Orb.
Turn Disintegrate into Fire Ball.
Turn Arcane Torrent into a bad ass lightning attack either a bolt from the sky like meteor but without the wait or something like Chain Lightning.
Up damage on Arcane orb.

Wizard done next class.

yea i'd love this, but sadly i doubt we'll ever see this kinda revisions to this game. It's not worth the cost to them when they have skills with animations and shit already done. All they'll do from here on is adjust %'s. (if history is any indication)
 
yea i'd love this, but sadly i doubt we'll ever see this kinda revisions to this game. It's not worth the cost to them when they have skills with animations and shit already done. All they'll do from here on is adjust %'s. (if history is any indication)

this is definitely true for the near future. 3+ years from now after an expansion pack I'd like to think skill redesign could have a chance at happening.

Still very unlikely though.
 
I don't think it works as you are thinking despite how it seems. You are playing 1 class out of 5. Your odds of getting gear specific to your class is 20%. Which does mean that 80% of the class specific gear you find is in fact for other classes but there isn't any malicious intent to this....just bad item design.

And out of that 20% you have even less odds of rolling the stats needed for that class.

everyone (blizzard included) is in agreement they completely fucked up pretty much everything about the items in this game...

At minimum class specific items should only have class specific stats....Wizard helms should only be allowed to roll INT, VIT, and wizard skills none of this Str,Dex, + 10 % to bash bull shit.

Its possible blizzard planned the items this way in order to force Auction House utilization ... I am of the opinion that they just fucked up the item design which unintentionally made the auction house more of a requirement than it otherwise would have been...them having planed the fucked up items system to maximize AH is giving blizzard way too much credit IMO.


there is a silver lining to the extremely bad Item design.....It offers a near limitless gear improvements as rolling 'perfect' gear is pretty much impossible.....if item grinding is your thing.

I don't really care why itemization is bad, it just is and they need to fix it! Unfortunately it won't be for several fucking months and more likely when they release the xpack...
 
I don't really care why itemization is bad, it just is and they need to fix it! Unfortunately it won't be for several fucking months and more likely when they release the xpack...

I honestly don't think they will ever fix the core issues with the item design. I bet they will just add more crafting abilities and possibly nerf the power effects IAS, Crit damage, and Crit Chance.

The only way I see any core fundamental changes happening to the itemization is if it is part of and driven by the Console port or expansion pack.
 
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If you can find a friend who hasn't played the game as well I'd recommend playing through the game with someone else.

My first time through the game I had a party of 4 all on Ventrillo the entire time and it transforms the game from good to completely bad ass. I'll never forget the day my group of 4 ran into soul lashers in Inferno for the first time.....about 5 minutes of complete rape hilarity before we gave up (never ended up killing the basterds)....now they fixed the rape though.

I wish I a group to play with, but unfortunately most of the group I play with pretty much only play BF3 and not much else. I do know one person that has the game but I don't think they play anymore.

I can totally see how I would get much more enjoyment out of the game playing with a few others though. Back in the D2 days a had a group a friends I played with and we had a blast playing together. It was always a lot more fun than soloing.
 
I wish I a group to play with, but unfortunately most of the group I play with pretty much only play BF3 and not much else. I do know one person that has the game but I don't think they play anymore.

I can totally see how I would get much more enjoyment out of the game playing with a few others though. Back in the D2 days a had a group a friends I played with and we had a blast playing together. It was always a lot more fun than soloing.

Its still a solid game in single player. Multiplier just adds that little bit extra to make you forget about the faults.....BF3 is the shit its pretty much the only FPS I play.
 
Is it normal to explore every nook and cranny of a dungeon, or do I just have serious OCD? It's like I can't bear to move on unless I've revealed every single part of the area I'm in.
 
Is it normal to explore every nook and cranny of a dungeon, or do I just have serious OCD? It's like I can't bear to move on unless I've revealed every single part of the area I'm in.

I find myself doing that a lot, but it is faster if you don't
 
Little by little you still can, but we're talking pennies.

They really should be releasing new item content. They could increase the ilvls to give people more incentive to keep playing for example, similar to "raid tiers" of WoW. Create a new class of ilvl 64-67 items or something
 
Is it normal to explore every nook and cranny of a dungeon, or do I just have serious OCD? It's like I can't bear to move on unless I've revealed every single part of the area I'm in.

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this. I always think the one guy I don't kill or the one chest I don't open will have a good drop waiting for me. Sadly that's almost never the case though.
 
just picked up a new router ASUS RT-AC66U with ASUS PCE-AC66 adapter.... still no where near ethernet speeds but its the best wireless tech out and is bound to go faster than my current 300N...aka 130 that has downed over 500 million in HC gear.

Dead and TacoBell you will be avenged.....or have company...I hear 3 is a crowd though.
 
Is it normal to explore every nook and cranny of a dungeon, or do I just have serious OCD? It's like I can't bear to move on unless I've revealed every single part of the area I'm in.

OCD probably actually does make the game a bit better in that aspect. I find when I have shiny arrows pointing me in the direction I need to go, I feel less inclined to explore.
 
I honestly don't think they will ever fix the core issues with the item design. I bet they will just add more crafting abilities and possibly nerf the power effects IAS, Crit damage, and Crit Chance.

The only way I see any core fundamental changes happening to the itemization is if it is part of and driven by the Console port or expansion pack.

That is why I said more than likely xpack...and not sure why you don' think they will eventually fix itemization?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/8953696/developer-journal-itemization-update-3-5-2013
 
That is why I said more than likely xpack...and not sure why you don' think they will eventually fix itemization?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/8953696/developer-journal-itemization-update-3-5-2013

They will help itemization like they did by improving the legendary items but I don't think they are going to fix it because it would be too much work and their primary development staff has left the project. To fix it they would need to prevent things like Str and bash from rolling on a wizard helmet. There are also quite a few other changes they'd have to make to fix itemization.
 
They will help itemization like they did by improving the legendary items but I don't think they are going to fix it because it would be too much work and their primary development staff has left the project. To fix it they would need to prevent things like Str and bash from rolling on a wizard helmet. There are also quite a few other changes they'd have to make to fix itemization.

Better drops are better drops...that's the whole idea of improved itemization. I see what your saying but now your just giving your opinion on what you think they should do to fix itemization. Who cares if the Wiz helmet rolls str or int if its not enough of an upgrade to your character. A stat is a stat and you have to have some diversity for this type of game. That kind of specialized itemization would just flood the AH with more mediocre items the same as it is now.
 
Better drops are better drops...that's the whole idea of improved itemization. I see what your saying but now your just giving your opinion on what you think they should do to fix itemization. Who cares if the Wiz helmet rolls str or int if its not enough of an upgrade to your character. A stat is a stat and you have to have some diversity for this type of game. That kind of specialized itemization would just flood the AH with more mediocre items the same as it is now.

Wizards care if a wizard helmet rolls STR and + 10% damage to bash. By removing useless options you drastically improve the odds of getting an upgrade.

Its not an opinion its a fact that a wizard doesn't need 10% bash damage and thus a wizards helmet, only usable by wizards, shouldn't be allowed to roll bash or str.....Unless they changed how STR is handled by none barbs.

I see a fundamental difference between fixing itemization and making improvement. I just don't have faith that blizzard will ever truly fix it....and if the raise the ceiling on how good an item 'can' get without closing the gap between shitty and amazing they will actually make it worse.
 
By removing useless options you drastically improve the odds of getting an upgrade

They are improving the odds of you getting an upgrade...just not the way you like. No stats are useless given the right combination of skills and character. We need to have diversity in a game like this. It sounds like you just want to gear up your chars as fast as possible getting only useful stats on items, but some of like the item hunt as well. That doesn't make them right or you wrong, just a difference in how we get there.
 
Better drops are better drops...that's the whole idea of improved itemization. I see what your saying but now your just giving your opinion on what you think they should do to fix itemization. Who cares if the Wiz helmet rolls str or int if its not enough of an upgrade to your character. A stat is a stat and you have to have some diversity for this type of game. That kind of specialized itemization would just flood the AH with more mediocre items the same as it is now.

The diversity argument only works if all classes can benefit in some way from any stat. Then it's up to the player to decide if they want a strength/dex-based wizard. (which ideally would make them have lots more dodge/armor)
 
They are improving the odds of you getting an upgrade...just not the way you like. No stats are useless given the right combination of skills and character. We need to have diversity in a game like this. It sounds like you just want to gear up your chars as fast as possible getting only useful stats on items, but some of like the item hunt as well. That doesn't make them right or you wrong, just a difference in how we get there.

no stat 'should' be useless... But many of them are. There was a post a long time ago that did a perfect breakdown of all the issues surrounding how they did the items in D3 this thread is to big to search for it at this point though.

They could use some intelligence while keeping the 'hunt' alive. Like they did with the Stone of Jordan. If the stone of Jordan rolls Spirit Regen then it is given a random monk skill. Still plenty of room for random to provide a good treasure hunt....a 6% cold damge, 30% elite damage, 2 spirit regen, 8% wave of lite crit chance stone of Jordan 2 billion. a 5% fire damage, 20 % elite damage, 1.1 spirit regen, 4% fist of thunder you'd be lucky to get a fiery brimstone out of........But every time you find a Stone of Jordan you are excited because at bare minimum your stats will fit a class.....Unlike finding a Barb Belt or wizard helmet.
 
How's the RMAH going for you guys? Is anyone actually selling anything anymore?

Well I just picked the game back up, stopped playing shortly after launch after getting to toons to max level. Forgot I left like 20 bucks in the RMAH from crazy sales during the first two months of playing. Figured I would check the price on a few things and man, prices have bottomed out on the RMAH. Ten million gold is like 25 cents. You have to buy them in ten millions, so I bought only a little bit, like a billion gold or something like that. Other than that, with my previous 20 million gold combined with new billion, I spent like 80 million on the gold auction house and outfitted my new 60 barb pretty damn well.
 
I might pick this up for $20 eventually...just started playing Torchlight 2 and it's great, has re-invigorated my interest in the genre.
 
I might pick this up for $20 eventually...just started playing Torchlight 2 and it's great, has re-invigorated my interest in the genre.

Going from the choices and customization of TL2 > D3, you may be rather disappointed.

TL2 has a Cube for crafting akin to D2, as well as talent points and surprisingly diverse gems for the socketed gear.
 
Going from the choices and customization of TL2 > D3, you may be rather disappointed.

TL2 has a Cube for crafting akin to D2, as well as talent points and surprisingly diverse gems for the socketed gear.

quite true; however in terms of gameplay, look and feel, production quality, replay-ability, and community D3 is much better so you may be rather pleased.

If it was me I'd hit up D3 first then pick up PoE when it is out of beta....It is what I am doing.
 
Grab POE. You won't regret it.

Actually I have PoE (did the $10 backer pack awhile back too), just haven't played it that much, mainly due to character wipes and not really knowing anyone else locally who plays it. I started up on TL2 because a couple of local guys wanted to play it, so that jump-started my interest (I actually pre-ordered TL2 but never played it much until now). D3 looks kinda interesting for the story if nothing else...not really interested in the auction house or min/maxing, but for a casual game at $20...maybe. Especially if the local guys get it as well.

Going from the choices and customization of TL2 > D3, you may be rather disappointed.

TL2 has a Cube for crafting akin to D2, as well as talent points and surprisingly diverse gems for the socketed gear.

Yeah...you're probably right. Still, after I get bored of TL2 I might want something different. :p
 
ive gotten a bit farther in Diablo 3 I am around level 15 right now and I will say that I am BORED already and losing focus. Im glad It was free because I honestly dont think I can go any farther. Im sure theres alot of people that truly love the game but im done from here
 
ive gotten a bit farther in Diablo 3 I am around level 15 right now and I will say that I am BORED already and losing focus. Im glad It was free because I honestly dont think I can go any farther. Im sure theres alot of people that truly love the game but im done from here

I don't play very often anymore but I can say if you only gave the game up to level 15 (about an hour) you didn't really give it a chance at all.
 
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