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Dell U2713H

Right now I have a ZR2440W : a 24" sRGB screen, which has better uniformity than almost all the 27" WQHD screens out there (except for the U2713H) but does suffer from the AG coating (though I am not overly sensitive to it) and some glow on the lower right corner (unavoidable on all e-IPS screens) so going to use this for now until something truly better comes along.

Waiting for the U3014 as well and hoping the glow issue is less (unlikely as logic dictates it will be more due to larger size unless Dell went all out and put an A-TW polarizer on it) or the new NEC screens based on the GB-r panels, NEC has interestingly not announced anything with them so far though both LG and Dell are shipping them already, I hope this is because they are fixing the quirks on these panels before releasing them first.

Samsung also announced the S27B971D which is basically the 970D with the most annoying feature - the front glass removed so it's basically a 850D with a compensator and better aesthetics, if my local MC has that on sale for $799 as they often do the 970D, will give that a shot as well.

And it may be comparing apples to oranges but in a world where 60" HDTVs regularly go for $700 , paying $800 for a 27" monitor with obvious flaws just doesn't sit right with me. Resolution may determine the cost for these WQHD+ screens but I figure the size of the panel is also a major component and given that benchmark, manufacturers are charging insane margins and not implementing any quality improvements in the monitor sector, a truly sad situation.
 
Can someone please take a second and help a noobie out?

I just ordered by U2713h. I do a bit of photography and absolutely LOVE gaming. I'm concerned with the wide-gamut and gaming. Can anyone comment on this?

Also, for gaming which preset should I use? Adobe/sRGB/Standard/ or gaming (I hear the color is awful in this preset)

Thanks in advance!
 
Thanks undertaker2k11. I'm thinking I might just try the U2713H and see how mine is, since I can always return it if it doesn't work out anyway.
 
Also like to add that the U2713H does not auto-switch inputs like my ZR2440W or the PB278Q I had earlier and seemed to take a while to recognize the input signal, not a major con but definitely an annoyance if you use mutilple machines and while I didn't fiddle around with it too much , the USB card reader wouldn't work properly when connected to a USB 3.0 port (may be disabling turbo mode may have helped but I was too lazy to try) but worked fine connected to a USB 2.0 port.
 
cheebamaster here's the deal...

The overall colors of this monitor are fantastic. The preset calibrations for Adobe and sRGB are also very good and accurate. You will have no problems with having colorful games, that is, they will not be washed out or weird.

For most games you will probably get best results using sRGB. The color settings are fully configurable so you are not restricted to the preset color models.

If you are a hard core FPS player, you may want to user Game Mode. Game mode does not have fancy preset calibration so it looks very bright and colorful. You can adjust this. It also reduces input lag by perhaps 10ms. I've spent some time testing and there is a barely noticeable (but definitely there) improvement with Game mode and input response.

If you are a hard core FPS gamer, this probably isn't the monitor for you. Some of the 120hz low LCD latency ones are better for really fast gaming. However if you also use this for work and non game use, this is definitely the monitor to have.
 
I've got (3) U2713H's arriving on Monday. I just purchased a new i1 Display Pro for use on Win7 (although I also have a 10.8.6 Mac Pro).

With only the i1 Display Pro, what's my workflow for determining whether I've received monitors that are functioning as they should?

Is there anyway for me to test what my resulting 'white point', etc. values are after hardware calibration?

My primary output is video for the web, BluRay and TV.

BTW - does anyone have the custom values one would input to calibrate for rec709, sRGB, DCI (I gather the custom config gives you more flexibility)

And also, what exactly is the color space 'native'? Is that just the widest it can manage that doesn't map to anything?

thanks!!
 
Okay are these monitors supposed to have green tint leaking in from the side? I just got mine and on anything grey/black there is a definite green tint leaking
 
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20130212145714.jpg


My camera overexaggerated it but....this is kinda what I'm seeing. wth?
 
^ Reduce your brightness to around 20-25, and it will decrease but there will be some corner 'green' glow as it uses GB-r LED just like W-LED screens have white glow :D

AH-IPS screens seem to have more flow in general compared to PLS/S-IPS, but the basic reason I returned it was the the flawed unif comp feature not working in sRGB mode so you have you can either have a non-uniform but accurate screen in sRGB mode or a uniform but overly saturated screen in custom mode. For $800 I want better.
 
Are you implying that this amount of "tint" is normal? I do lots of gaming and don't particularly like a super dark screen...love to see vibrant colors and all
 
This is not a gaming monitor, there are better, cheaper 1440p options with better gaming performance...

Mine has a strong green tint in all of the modes and the right corner seems to have a stronger white tint.
 
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I'm not looking for the fastest ms/refresh rate. I either do online rpgs or play games like skyrim. I would much rather enjoy a game on a monitor with fantastic colors then settle for a 200$ tn panel.

That said, should I return this panel for a replacement or does that "bleed" exist in all of them
 
cheebamaster said:
I'm not looking for the fastest ms/refresh rate. I either do online rpgs or play games like skyrim. I would much rather enjoy a game on a monitor with fantastic colors then settle for a 200$ tn panel.

That said, should I return this panel for a replacement or does that "bleed" exist in all of them
Click to expand...

If you're within your 21 day return window with Dell then make use of it and get a new one sent out and see if you like it better. If the backlight bleed is still too much for you then send it back for a refund.
 
burningrave101 said:
If you're within your 21 day return window with Dell then make use of it and get a new one sent out and see if you like it better. If the backlight bleed is still too much for you then send it back for a refund.
Click to expand...

If you have complete care you don't even need to be within the 21 day return window, just call them up and say the backlight bleed is too much and you want a replacement. Probably do the same thing under the regular warranty as well, but they may make you jump through a few more hoops.
 
ND40oz said:
If you have complete care you don't even need to be within the 21 day return window, just call them up and say the backlight bleed is too much and you want a replacement. Probably do the same thing under the regular warranty as well, but they may make you jump through a few more hoops.
Click to expand...

Unless Complete Care is different though they're going to send a refurb replacement instead of a brand new monitor when your outside of the 21 day return window.
 
burningrave101 said:
Unless Complete Care is different though they're going to send a refurb replacement instead of a brand new monitor when your outside of the 21 day return window.
Click to expand...

Who cares as long as it's fixed? If it isn't fixed, you just request another replacement. Especially now when it's this close to release, they're not exactly swimming in refurbs.
 
Well, my U2713H will also be going back. IPS glow is unbelievable - as bad as that pic posted above, perhaps worse. Coupled with backlight bleed, it's basically unusable with any dark material and the glow is even noticeable with some lighter material. Just unacceptable for a monitor of this price.

I've also been having some other weird issues. The USB hub only seems to work intermittently, though I can get USB3 speeds when it does work. More worryingly, on a couple of occasions the monitor has started flickering and showing coloured lines (like graphics card artifacting) over Displayport and DVI. Sometimes it won't detect my computer over Displayport at all, forcing me to turn the monitor off and on again. And to top it all off, the Dell Display Manager usually doesn't detect the monitor (it did exactly once, no idea why, and never has again) and the calibration software won't detect my i1 Display Pro (possibly because it's an OEM version, though Spectraview and other profiling/calibration software works fine).

I should add I'm on the latest NVIDIA drivers and have installed the latest versions of the monitor driver and software.

So it's really just been a litany of failures unfortunately. Hopefully there won't be any issue getting a full refund. Looks like it will probably be back to NEC for me
 
Anyone notice a pattern with all these Dell monitors? 2312hm, 2412m, 2713hm, and 2713h -- all have giant threads here with people going through replacement after replacement. Dell's quality control has declined considerably over the years.

Personally, I went through one defective 2412m and one defective 2713hm before deciding never to buy Dell again. It just isn't worth the headache.
 
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acti0n said:
Anyone notice a pattern with all these Dell monitors? 2312hm, 2412m, 2713hm, and 2713h -- all have giant threads here with people going through replacement after replacement. Dell's quality control has declined considerably over the years.

Personally, I went through one defective 2412m and one defective 2713hm before deciding never to buy Dell again. It just isn't worth the headache.
Click to expand...

To be fair, what are you comparing this against? From what some people have claimed, Dell's early revision monitors usually have problems which later usually gets resolved. I personally owned a u2410 and u2711, but were later revisions and never really had serious issues, aside from color uniformity and some firmware issues. So, I don't know for sure if the early u2410, u2711, u3011 or the panel generations before had issues when they were first released. Whether this trend is true or not, it certainly doesn't justify all the issues people are getting with their supposed high end consumer panels. The advice I would give a potential buyer of one of these new IPS panels from Dell is, wait for a few revisions to settle and see.

Owning a first generation u2713h I can admit that some of the issues and build quality are suspicious, but at the same time the overall experience upgrading from my u2711 is positive. I am giving Dell the benefit of the doubt and hope later revisions will have improvements.
 
I received 3 of rev A01 U2713H's.

Using arms on two, you can fit three on a desk, kind of wrapped around so that you can see all of them.

I've yet to install the DELL software drivers (probably not), but intend to try calibration with the i1Display Pro for sRGB (which is probably overkill as the factory calibration is not supposed to be bad http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2713h.htm

Found out that Sony Pictures (Spider Man, etc.) is calibrating their monitors sRGB which will make things very simple (and possibly make the need for a high gamut monitor moot?) Who would have guessed?

Display Calibration

sRGB is the supported desktop display specification, calibrated to the sRGB standard and viewed in a dim office environment. As Imageworks switched from crt based display devices to LCD based devices a number of possible colorspaces were explored. It was a long decision but sRGB was chosen for a few reasons. An important one was that almost every display manufacturer can implement sRGB, reasonable well. This becomes a boon when we work needs to be done outside of our main facilities. Even a consumer display with calibration can come close to matching the sRGB standard. Since so many monitor manufacturers can hit sRGB calibration we are not tied to purchasing from a specific vendor. It becomes unnecessary to specify a specific display to with productions or external vendors. It also reduces the amount of studio specific color requirements that need to be communicated when working with other facilities. 80 cd/m^2, D65 white point, srgb gamma function (approx 2.4)

The paragraph above is from http://opencolorio.org/configurations/spi_vfx.html
and they get into their pipeline here: http://opencolorio.org/configurations/spi_pipeline.html

Only issue I have with the U2713H is that it will NOT display 1080p24 thru hdmi (as DELL told me it would) and will NOT display my older VGA KVM thru the mini displayport using an adapter (which DELL said would work).

BTW - I found this dual display 4 port KVM to be very useful for switching between Macs and PCs @ 2560 x 1440:
IOGEAR GCS1644 http://www.iogear.com/product/GCS1644/ . They also have a new displayport version also.
 
Found out that Sony Pictures (Spider Man, etc.) is calibrating their monitors sRGB
Click to expand...
The color gamut of Rec.709 (consumer HD) is identical with sRGB but the tonal curve (=> midtone brightness) differs – regarding Rec.709 it isn't normatively and explicitly defined for playback.However: In a daylight environment the sRGB gradation will be fine. Therefore switching to its sRGB mode is a good idea in this case (but don't insist on 80 cd/m²; even the whitepoint is flexible but that is a different kettle of fish).

srgb gamma function (approx 2.4)
Click to expand...
The sRGB gradation is defined by a function with 2.4 exponent but is far away (with a linear portion in the shadows) from a "pure" gamma 2.4 gradation.

Only issue I have with the U2713H is that it will NOT display 1080p24 thru hdmi
Click to expand...
We have experienced no problems when feeding a 1080p24 signal via HDMI although there is no advantage compared with a 1080p60 input (judder). Only very few computer displays (in contrast to LCD-TVs) are more flexible.
 
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Sailor_Moon said:
The color gamut of Rec.709 (consumer HD) is identical with sRGB but the tonal curve (=> midtone brightness) differs – regarding Rec.709 it isn't normatively and explicitly defined for playback.However: In a daylight environment the sRGB gradation will be fine. Therefore switching to its sRGB mode is a good idea in this case (but don't insist on 80 cd/m²; even the whitepoint is flexible but that is a different kettle of fish).
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm just learning about this ... but thinking Rec. 709 for anything I'd do for TV (or for those with more talent, Film) - and sRGB for the rest, but using high gamut (?native?) to detect issues with colors (if and when I actually get a 10 bit video card).

I also questioned their 80 cd/m²? I'd guess as they are generating output for movie theaters, that would make sense (especially if 3d where so much of the light get split).

Possibly 120 cd/m² might be a better choice?

Sailor_Moon said:
The sRGB gradation is defined by a function with 2.4 exponent but is far away (with a linear portion in the shadows) from a "pure" gamma 2.4 gradation.
Click to expand...

I'm in the process of learning (well, just skimming the surface so far) about gamma, as I've seen arguments on avsforum about the true gamma of Rec 709. I do know enough to composite in linear, but ... I've got a lot to learn.

Sailor_Moon said:
We have experienced no problems when feeding a 1080p24 signal via HDMI although there is no advantage compared with a 1080p60 input (judder). Only very few computer displays (in contrast to LCD-TVs) are more flexible.
Click to expand...
My $200 Samsung will display 1080p24.

I shoot using a RED 4K Scarlet and when in the studio I also capture using a Black Magic Intensity card (so that I can immediately view the last take on a full system with studio monitors for sound).

Unfortunately, the Scarlet only outputs 1080p24 thru hdmi at the moment even though it's recording 4K internally to flash at 4K 23.97

I capture thru a Black Magic Intensity Pro http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity/models

I'll try 1080p24 on my other 2 monitors tonight in case one is defective, as it really should work. Isn't 1080p24 the preferred output from a BluRay player?

Had a long tech support session with DELL, and found out that indeed the VGA -> displayport mini wasn't going to work (DELL salesman [who said he checked with tech support] gave me incorrect advise) - so maybe I can use a VGA ->hdmi converter to get around that?
 
Currently got the U27 next to an ACD. Gave it a shot to test it out, and see how it compared.

I'm partial to glossy, as I can control my lighting very easily and I prefer the glossy colour pop. I will admit, with the new AG it certainly comes close. Of course, it still can't compared, but it comes very close indeed. I'll be able to give a more accurate judgement once I can get them calibrated. Running Dell's sRGB calibration (I'll never have a use for wide gamut anyway) and the stock ACD one (which is too blue). Once I get them both calibrated I shall see how both monitors compare, although I think I'm still going to prefer the ACD. I just prefer reflections to the diffusion of light.
 
LC155 and others,
Another poster is claiming that the AG coating on the U27 is very light and noticeably lighter than that of the U24.

Can you or anyone else confirm that? (I'd be shocked if Dell had finally gotten this right :)).
 
It is certainly much lighter than my NEC PA241W, which I believe uses the same coating as the U2410. I'd describe it asalmost semi-gloss. Problem is it seems (on mine at least) to be accompanied by much, much worse IPS glow, so pick your poison I guess.
 
The U2713H's coating is slightly different than the semi-glossy coating found on PLS displays, in fact it is better. It is less reflective and less grainy than my semi-glossy Samsung S27A850D. The Asus PB278Q I reviewed also had slightly better semi-glossy coating than my S27A850D (from 2011), so maybe all of the newer models have improved semi-glossy coating.
 
It is probably the best AG coating I've seen on a monitor to be fair.

Again, it comes very close to the ACD. It just can't compare to the glossy effect of making blacks look deeper and giving the illusion of greater contrast, which gives me much more vibrant reds/pinks and darker blacks. However, in most other colours I struggle to tell them apart.That says wonders for the dell for those of you who can't stand glossy.

I'm going to keep it for a while (get a month to return it) and see if I can ever get used to the AG coating. If not, back to the ACD for me. (Although on that side, there are rumours that the stocks are dropping everywhere. Apple could be about to refresh the ACD line with the new imac design. If true, then a glossy monitor with that anti reflective coating will probably be a 'perfect' display imo. All the glossy benefits without the reflections for those of you who hate them.
 
You'd think the USB issue would have been discovered via testing them. I guess Dell didnt bother.
 
^
I know. I'm pissed right now and feel like I am a beta test for this monitor. I paid almost a grand for it after sales tax and advanced replacement warranty.
 
Ouch, that sucks.

I'm just dying waiting for this calibrator, to see if I can make the blacks deeper and closer to the ACD.

Of course, since ACD stocks are dropping I'm really hoping they'll put out the new imac design of the ACD with that anti reflective coating, just look at it:

http://cdn.gottabemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/iMac-Late-2012-Review-04.jpg

To me that is perfection. Nice, rich H-IPS colours, no stupid anti glare, barely any reflections.

Still, again, don't want to make it sound like the ACD *IS* better. I just prefer the complete lack of AG. For all intents and purposes, the dell *is* the better monitor, especially with that wide gamut LED tech. Build quality right now is suspect, though.

I'd honestly wait for later revisions for prospective buyers.
 
So you're saying calibrating it properly probably won't make much of a difference?

Too bad. Still looks a bit washed out in comparison.
 
Can anyone with the monitor tell me the hardware ID's value from within device manager for the usb 3.0 hub?
 
Diverge said:
Can anyone with the monitor tell me the hardware ID's value from within device manager for the usb 3.0 hub?
Click to expand...
I'm not going to use USB3 with this monitor after having a Win7 BSOD crash when trying to calibrate my 2nd U2713H and then finding out USB3 connectivity with my 2nd and 3rd monitor as failing every 10 seconds or so. Using a USB2 port from my computer to calibrate has worked twice so far (on monitors that failed for USB3).

Dell seems to acknowledge that the USB3 has major issues here:

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/t/19489601.aspx

where at the end they admit that exchanging the monitor won't fix the USB3 issues "Because engineering said it would not. "

----------- some NEW info about hardware calibration issues ----
In this thread, a user mentions that calibrating CAL1 or CA2 a second time seems to stack the calibrations on top of each other rendering them worthless.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1357925437/75#75

Anyone care to comment on this? I don't have the tools to measure this properly, and am curious whether a reset to factory defaults of the monitor before calibration would fix this?
 
NCX said:
The U2713H's coating is slightly different than the semi-glossy coating found on PLS displays, in fact it is better. It is less reflective and less grainy than my semi-glossy Samsung S27A850D. The Asus PB278Q I reviewed also had slightly better semi-glossy coating than my S27A850D (from 2011), so maybe all of the newer models have improved semi-glossy coating.
Click to expand...

This is good news, NCX. Less reflective AND less grainy is a winning combination. Yes, let's hope this means more LCD manufacturers will be adopting the newer advanced sem-gloss coatings.
 
There has been some discussion on the calibration of the new Dell panels using the RG Phosphor calibration correction matrix instead of the RGBLED like a few technicians at X-Rite are recommending. After running some tests using RG Phosphor in iProfiler and being quite pleased with the software profiling results, I decided to try and force the Dell Color Calibration Solution software(hardware LUT) to use RG Phosphor as well.

The following is the better part of a post I made on the TFT Center Forums:

If in fact, the RG-Phosphor edr is meant for our panels, I have some great news. I was able to get the Dell Calibration Software for hardware LUT calibration to use the RG Phosphor matrix! (If you have installed the newest version of X-rite device services the RG Phosphor edr should be installed.)

Here's how I did it. I'll try to give a much info as possible so people will have an idea of how it all works. Bare with me for a bit.

Luckily, X-rite has really streamlined the process of panel corrections with .edr files. and by using xml to help direct the application to the right data. The Dell Color Calibration Solution software(I'll call it DCCS) functions very much the same way as iProfiler so I just took that data, edited a few files and helped it do the same.

First of all, DCCS keeps a somewhat detailed log in AppData/Roaming/X-Rite/Dell Color Calibration/Logger, which helped me figure out that DCCS was missing a displayTechTypes.xml file during the calibration process. iProfiler uses this same file, so I took the one from ProgramData/X-Rite/i1Profiler/, edited it, and placed it where the missing file should be in ProgramData/X-Rite/Dell Color Calibration Solution/. The file contains different panels, their device IDs, and the corresponding code to help iProfiler/DCCS identify the type and edr to use. I deleted all the extra panels(since DCCS only works with the dell) and I added the following line to the file between <DisplayList> ... </DisplayList>:

Code: 
<Display Mfr="AC10" Model="F046" Key="DELF046" Type="18" Name="DELL U2413" Comment="U2413"/>

Now how did I know this info? Well, when I first opened the Logger file, it revealed the device ID for the U2413 to be DELF046. The other Dell monitors listed in the xml file had a Mfr code of AC10, so I just created a new entry for my monitor. Additionally, I had to list the panel type of "18", which brings us to the next step.

When you first install DCCS in installs edr files into Program Files (x86)/X-Rite/Devices/i1d3/Calibrations (iProfiler uses the same folder structure and i1d3 is the name for i1 Display Pro). If you installed the latest version of X-Rite Device Services, RG-Phosphor should be there. In the same folder, there's a TechnologyStrings file that lists panel types and their corresponding technology number. RG-Phosphor is 18, which is where I got the number for the displayTechTypes.xml entry. While you're in this folder, you might just want to make sure the i1D3Mapping file has the following entry to direct the application to the correct edr file:

Code: 
18,RG_Phosphor_Family_25Jul12.edr

Now... the RG Phosphor edr should load by default when you launch DCCS. To test, I ran a quick calibration for the default sRGB settings at 120 luminance. I checked it in basICColor Display 5, which you can also add the edr files to, to make sure you check with the RG Phosphor correction. The attached pic is the result. As you can see, whitepoint is much better, but there are some issues with gamma, etc. I tried to manually set sRGB in DCCS, but it failed to return great results. Whitepoint always hits the mark, but max gray scale is usually off. I'm going to mess around with DCCS some more and see if I can't get it to return better results. I noticed that many of the files between iProfiler and DCCS are the same, so I might try to replace some of those files with the more updated ones from iProfiler.

Other tests returned worse results. The Rec 709 preset passes when validated with basICColor, but the gamma is at 1.8, clearly not Rec 709.

I'm hoping that Simon at TFT Central can do some spectrophotometer tests using the RG-phosphor edr to see if, in fact, it's correct for our panel.

In any event, I hope this info helps.

hs6s5g.png
 
the RG-phosphor edr to see if, in fact, it's correct for our panel.
Click to expand...
Yes it is the correct spectral characterizsation set. I must admit that I had thought it was already used by DCCS by default. Our results were &#8211; regarding absolute accuracy &#8211; quite OK:

Target: D65
DeltaE to D65 after calibration (i1 Pro): 2.62

When considering that the i1 Pro itself is no ideal reference and the generic character of the edr files (btw: Far away from a simple correction matrix that was mentioned in another thread) that is sufficient. One should also think of general limitations (especially observer metamerism) that have a much bigger impact than this deviation. We will check the explicit integration of the GB-LED characterizsation set during our current test.

edit: I have seen your post @tftcentral:

DispcalGUI has a check for calibrated and uncalibrated monitor, but I'm not sure I understand the results it gives since it provides 4 numbers for whitepoint:

White chromaticity coordinates 0.2974, 0.3335
White Correlated Color Temperature = 7308K, DE 2K to locus = 14.4
White Correlated Daylight Temperature = 7295K, DE 2K to locus = 12.0
White Visual Color Temperature = 6575K, DE 2K to locus = 14.0
White Visual Daylight Temperature = 6720K, DE 2K to locus = 11.6
Click to expand...

White Correlated Color Temperature
Is the correlated temperature of a blackbody radiator emitting a stimulus that best matches that of the current sample (=> doesn't represent one single but "infinitely many" colors). The DeltaE 2000 refers to the distance between the stimulus of this radiator and the stimulus of the sample.

White Correlated Daylight Temperature
See above but referes to a daylight source (D-illuminant) rather than a blackbody radiator (an almost only parallely moved curve in the u&#8242;, v&#8242; chromaticity diagram). When typing in color temperatures as target value in a calibration software this source is presumed often instead of referring to the blackbody locus (same for accordant factory calibrations)

White Visual Color Temperature
White Visual Daylight Temperature
Same as above but uses the modern DeltaE 2000 already to determine the correlated temperature.
 
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