Dell U2713H

Sailor_Moon said:
Yes it is the correct spectral characterizsation set.
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Thanks!

Quick question for U2713H or U2413 owners out there. Are any of you experiencing strange issues if you try to recalibrate the hardware LUTs? If I try to calibrate my LUTs a second time, the results are way off. It's like the software isn't clearing out CAL1 or CAL2 before attempting to refresh it. The only thing that will clear the LUT is for me to do a factor reset.
 
Thanks!
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Have added additional information.

If I try to calibrate my LUTs a second time, the results are way off.
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We have not experienced that kind of problem with our U2713H (our U2413H sample has just arrived and will be tested this week). There was an other kind of hiccup when using the hardware calibration out of a picture mode with MAC gradation selection which screwed up the TRC after a restart. DELL should lock most parts of the OSD after the calibration and add an user defined mode with native color gamut and control over gradation and whitepoint.
 
kundica said:
Quick question for U2713H or U2413 owners out there. Are any of you experiencing strange issues if you try to recalibrate the hardware LUTs?
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I've done it multiple times and never had an issue, still I think those who want a display with hardware calibration should definitely skip this display.

The only way to get accurate colors on mine is with normal calibration since mine has such a strong green tint and lack of red. In some images reddish shades are completely absent, even after hardware calibration.

I'm returning mine tomorrow. Mine also developed a weird issue, horizontal rgb lines will show up and start flickering as will tiny rgb dots and the display will continually blank out unless I set it to 1920x1080 for a while.

I've tested the SD reader with 3 different cards and it works properly.
 
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Sailor_Moon said:
Have added additional information.
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Thanks for the expanded info and for answering my questions from TFT Central.

Regarding my CAL1/CAL2 issue. I'm gonna uninstall everything(DCCS, iProfiler, basIIColor, etc.) then reinstall DCCS and see if I can't get the LUTs to properly calibrate on a 2nd attempt. If not, it looks like I might need to exchange my panel(if I can ever figure out how to get it back into the box!).
 
So I just did wipe of all calibration software and did a clean install of DCCS. The software installs the RG Phosphor edr so it's not necessary to install the device services. It still doesn't load it by default though, so it's still necessary to create or edit the displayTechTypes file from iProfiler to direct DCCS to use the correct .edr file.

I'm still having issues calibrating for a 2nd time on either CAL1 or CAL2. The new calibrations progressively become more green. If I do it enough times, it will become completely green. Is there a particular setting I'm supposed to be on when I calibrate for CAL1/CAL2?
 
Sailor Moon explained the color issues a few pages back:

Sailor_Moon said:
When calibrating with the native preset no display internal color space transformations are carried out. Unfortunately all other (of the already limited) settings are not accessible despite the brightness. You will end up with a Gamma 2.2-gradation and the native display white far away from daylight or blackbody curve. This should – and from my point of view must – be modified of course. Until then one can only use the custom preset in the software and enter chromaticity coordinates near the native color gamut to be able to accomplish a hardware calibration with almost native color gamut and desired whitepoint and Gamma gradation.
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I used the appropriate co-ordinates to calibrate Cal 1 to Adobe RGB with 5700k white point and Call 2 to sRGB with a 5700k white point since the 5700k produces a 6250k color temperature. The hardware calibration barely adjusts the RGB levels internally leaving mine with a strong green tint and lack of reds. I am sure Sailor_Moon will correct me, but it seems like the Hardware Calibration is basically useless vs. calibrating the display normally with the appropriate software (and colorimeter of course).

Using Gamut Vision I calculated the Absolute (cuts off values outside the spectrum)+Print Test sRGB color space coverage once sRGB hardware calibrated and I got around 98% for the Absolute coverage. Not sure how to figure out how to calculate the Adobe RGB coverage yet.
 
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I am sure Sailor_Moon will correct me, but it seems like the Hardware Calibration is basically useless vs. calibrating the display normally with the appropriate software (and colorimeter of course).
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I can only refer to our test setup but we were able to achieve all desired whitepoint targets (important when for example trying to adjust to specific color matching conditions) via DELLs software – apart from the already mentioned native setting which (currently) only allows for the native display whitepoint because of missing GUI elements (except for light density).

I'm still having issues calibrating for a 2nd time on either CAL1 or CAL2. The new calibrations progressively become more green.
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That is really strange. Of course the display whitepoint, after calibration with native color space selection, is far from beeing ideal – but even if you have used that preset that is no explanation for the observed progression. I will try to reproduce the situation with our new sample.
 
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Sailor_Moon said:
That is really strange. Of course the display whitepoint, after calibration with native color space selection, is far from beeing ideal – but even if you have used that preset that is no explanation for the observed progression. I will try to reproduce the situation with our new sample.
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I notice the results are worse when I try to manually enter all the info. So manual R,G, and B coordinates and a manual whitepoint. I tried calibrating a few times this way because the REC 709 preset returns poor results for me. Also, CAL2 seems to be more problematic for me than CAL1. Usually, if I calibrate right after a factory reset, I can get decent results with the sRGB preset(see my pic from post 199). Unfortunately after that, things become a bit of a mess. Even if I go back to the sRGB preset, my results are junk (I'll get data all over the place, like a gamma of 2.5 for a calibration at 2.2).

In the morning I'll try calibrating a few times to show the poor results and post a screenshot so you guys can see what I'm talking about. I'm considering exchanging the monitor with DELL, but if it's a software issue, doing so could be rather pointless. Might have to opt for an NEC.
 
kundica said:
I notice the results are worse when I try to manually enter all the info. So manual R,G, and B coordinates and a manual whitepoint. I tried calibrating a few times this way because the REC 709 preset returns poor results for me.
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Make sure to change your default color profile in the windows settings, I found that sometimes it would not automatically switch profiles after hardware calibration, so the colors were messed up.
 
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NCX said:
Make sure to change your default color profile in the windows settings, I found that sometimes it would not automatically switch profiles after hardware calibration, so the colors were messed up.
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Thanks NCX, I did.

I actually just got off the phone with DELL(after like 5 transfers) and I'm returning the monitor for a refund. I'm 95% sure that I'll be ordering the 24" NEC as a replacement in the next day or two.
 
Been using my Dell for a good few days now and I think I'm happy with it so far, although with the problems others are having I'm wondering, what really is the best 27" monitor?
 
LC155 said:
Been using my Dell for a good few days now and I think I'm happy with it so far, although with the problems others are having I'm wondering, what really is the best 27" monitor?
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Well, it's fairly subjective. I found my Dell to be a great monitor in many ways, but it fell short where I need it most, critical color calibration. It's a pity because I really got it for a steal through their small business department.
 
I returned mine too.

It has plenty of features but doesn't implement any of them very well. I've seen better colors from 250$ TN panels out of the box vs. the hardware calibrated results. I think the Hulk or that Pea guy would have liked mine since it was so green. Input lag is too high and there is too much ghosting when not using the Game Mode, but the game mode does not have good colors.

IMO it only suits 2 purposes: Being used for work after being properly software calibrated and pleasing the most casual, but loaded gamers who want vibrant colors and don't care about color accuracy.
 
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NCX said:
I returned mine too.

It has plenty of features but doesn't implement any of them very well. I've seen better colors from 250$ TN panels out of the box vs. the hardware calibrated results. I think the Hulk or that Pea guy would have liked mine since it was so green. Input lag is too high and there is too much ghosting when not using the Game Mode, but the game mode does not have good colors.

IMO it only suits 2 purposes: Being used for work after being properly software calibrated and pleasing the most casual, but loaded gamers who want vibrant colors and don't care about color accuracy.
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And the last part of my post? What would you have as the best all round IPS monitor right now? (For colour accuracy, AG, and so on)
 
LC155 said:
And the last part of my post? What would you have as the best all round IPS monitor right now? (For colour accuracy, AG, and so on)
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My vote is, as ever, an NEC PA series. Great quality to start with and full hardware calibration. However whereas it sounds like Dell's calibration is flaky, NEC's is rock solid (they've been doing it for years). If I could have any monitor, a PA series is what I'd get. In fact, it is what I got, a PA301W and I am happy as can be.

The big downside is, of course, cost. The high quality electronics and such make them some of the most expensive monitors out there, next to Eizo. Also their input lag isn't super low, again due to all the processing. I don't find it problematic for anything but twitch gaming though. Rift, Skyrim, Deus Ex, all PA301W all the time.

If you want a 27" the PA271W is their 27" variant. Much cheaper than the 30", but still more expensive than any other 27" listed so far.

However if you want bang on accurate sRGB emulation, customizable gamut, full hardware calibration (a lot of which you can do without buying a calibrator unit, they have software to customize the display without needing a sensor, though they have other software to do it more accurately with one), screen uniformity correction (that you can turn on and off and adjust) then the PA series are worth a look.
 
NCX said:
This requirement excludes all NEC IPS monitors except the new NEC EA244WMi.
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I disagree. I find their AG to be my favourite out there. It is very light, does a great job diffusing even quite direct light and gives rise to good image quality

If you don't like it, that's fine, but your opinion isn't the right one, just another one.
 
Sycraft said:
It is very light.
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Except for the P232W which has LG's new semi-glossy coating (as well as cross-hatching issues) and the EA244WMIi all NEC IPS use the LG's aggressive AG. It's the complete opposite of light.
 
I do not find it to be overly aggressive at all. Sorry, but I stand by my opinion: I think they are great looking displays and I think the AG coating is part of what looks good on them.
 
why does the U2413's game mode rock, while the U2713H game mode sucks...

Think it will be fixed in later revs?
 
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Sycraft said:
I do not find it to be overly aggressive at all. Sorry, but I stand by my opinion: I think they are great looking displays and I think the AG coating is part of what looks good on them.
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Agree with NCX there - I find the old 3H coating the worst thing I have ever seen. Put me off AG displays for a long while, hence why I went ACD.
 
For those who have the U2713H (not U2713HM) how do you like it? Which revision are you on right now?

Does your unit emit a buzzing sound? Can you use a 3rd party hardware calibrator like a Spyder3Pro on it?

If you came from a U2711 how does it compare? I am interested with the U2713H's ability to pivot and USB 3.
 
The U2713H's USB hub and card reader are crippled. Dell doesn't know what's wrong with it and a Dell agent told me that it's pointless to get it exchanged right now for USB issues since they don't know what's wrong with it.
 
Synomenon said:
The U2713H's USB hub and card reader are crippled. Dell doesn't know what's wrong with it and a Dell agent told me that it's pointless to get it exchanged right now for USB issues since they don't know what's wrong with it.
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What do you mean by "crippled"? Slower than USB 2 transfer speeds?

And also what's the verdict? Buy or wait for something else.?
 
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The U2713H seems workable now. You can hardware calibrate it using USB2 as using USB3 will fail during the calibration. USB3 is not reliable in the current revision A01.

My only objection to it at the moment is that there's no summary of all the parameters after hardware calibration. It will tell you if the luminance failed to reach the target (had this happen during a USB3 calibration) - but gives you no other information.

I thought the i1Display Pro needed to be set onto a surface to self-calibrate before calibrating (or maybe this is just the older i1 I replaced it with?). At any rate, there's no self calibration stage where you put it on a flat surface.

And when x-rite wrote the software for Dell, GB-LED's were just out, so ... hopefully they will bring out a newer version of the software with even better performance?

One other thing. You can't play 1080p24 thru the hdmi. And I'm curious how it would map 1920x1080 to 2560 x 1440? Whether it would have artifacts or look perfect?
 
highGamutWannabe said:
The U2713H seems workable now. You can hardware calibrate it using USB2 as using USB3 will fail during the calibration. USB3 is not reliable in the current revision A01.

My only objection to it at the moment is that there's no summary of all the parameters after hardware calibration. It will tell you if the luminance failed to reach the target (had this happen during a USB3 calibration) - but gives you no other information.

I thought the i1Display Pro needed to be set onto a surface to self-calibrate before calibrating (or maybe this is just the older i1 I replaced it with?). At any rate, there's no self calibration stage where you put it on a flat surface.

And when x-rite wrote the software for Dell, GB-LED's were just out, so ... hopefully they will bring out a newer version of the software with even better performance?

One other thing. You can't play 1080p24 thru the hdmi. And I'm curious how it would map 1920x1080 to 2560 x 1440? Whether it would have artifacts or look perfect?
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I am a bit fuzzy on this so kindly indulge my short mindedness but...

... can I use my Spyder3PRO hardware and software with the U2713H and calibrate via manually changing the contrast, brightness, RGB, etc until the Spyder3PRO will say you're as close as possible to perfection?

Thanks!
 
DViant said:
For those who have the U2713H (not U2713HM) how do you like it? Which revision are you on right now?

Does your unit emit a buzzing sound? Can you use a 3rd party hardware calibrator like a Spyder3Pro on it?

If you came from a U2711 how does it compare? I am interested with the U2713H's ability to pivot and USB 3.
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The card reader and the USB3.0 ports are working flawlessly in my unit. I used them a few times since I have my monitor and they always worked as they should.

Maybe I was lucky, however in the shop where I bought mine I had the opportunity to pick whichever they had in stock and test it immediately at the vendor. The first one they unboxed had an awful buzzing sound even the shop assistant recommended to unbox and check another. The second one was much-much better, although it still has a very slight buzzing sound which I can hear when I lean forward really close to the monitor and there's a lot of text in the screen (like very long emails in Gmail) or the famous "# test" (filling Notepad with #'s in full screen) and of course it's totally quiet in the house.
Uniformity compensation works fine too, although I'm not a professional user but disabling this feature I immediately notice with my bare eyes that there's a slight "bluish/greenish" area in the screen at the right side. Enabling this and the screen feels much better, I can't see the bluish area anymore. (this was confirmed when they calibrated my screen in the shop a week later)

I came from a U2410 and the first difference was the strong AG vs. light AG coating. The latter feels so natural that when there's a tiny dust particle on my monitor I immediately notice it during usage. Using the U2410 I could notice the dust particles only when it was turned off.

By the way I'm from Europe and I think it's a revA00 (I'm not at home right now so I can't check it).
 
DViant said:
I am a bit fuzzy on this so kindly indulge my short mindedness but...

... can I use my Spyder3PRO hardware and software with the U2713H and calibrate via manually changing the contrast, brightness, RGB, etc until the Spyder3PRO will say you're as close as possible to perfection?

Thanks!
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You can use the Spyder - but, not for the 'hardware calibration' where you don't have to change any settings your self and the internal LUT gets programmed.

You might look at reviews comparing the Spyder to the i1Display Pro (I haven't done so, so I'm not saying it's not as good). If the i1 is better, you might consider it just for the ease-of-use in calibration - and to take advantage of programming the internal LUT.

I'd guess you will never be able to do a 'hardware calibration' of the LUT using the Spyder.

I'm just hoping that they will continue to improve the calibration software (any idea if this does happen with Dell supplied calibration software)?
 
DViant said:
Spyder3PRO
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One should not be using the spyder 3 pro for anything. It looses accuracy over time and it was never really accurate to being with. It is even less accurate when paired with an led back lit display, let alone a GB-LED display like the U2713H. If you don't need a wide gamut display for work you should get the U2713HM, it is much better for games and movies than the U2713H.
 
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highGamutWannabe said:
And when x-rite wrote the software for Dell, GB-LED's were just out, so ... hopefully they will bring out a newer version of the software with even better performance?
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The correction matrix "RG Phosphor edr" is included in the software installation(off the CD or by installing Device Services), but the Dell software doesn't use it by default because it fails to find the displayTechTypes.xml which directs it to use the correct .edr. If you're using the Dell Calibration software, without forcing it to use the correct edr, then you're calibrations are off(most likely with whitepoint). I've detailed how to force it to use the correct edr in post #199:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039629784&postcount=199

I'm just hoping that they will continue to improve the calibration software (any idea if this does happen with Dell supplied calibration software)?
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Dell has never had hardware calibration before, so who knows.

Frankly, the hardware calibration on these new monitors is kind of a joke. Dell made these panels very attractive with all the bells and whistles they've packaged together, but at the cost of any of them performing great. It makes sense, though, no other company has included so much at such a low price point(I was able to get my U2413 for 450). That deal wasn't enough for me to keep the monitor, which is why I'm going to end up spending a bit more to get the level of quality I need. For those who are satisfied with software calibration, the dell might be a great deal for you given it's low cost.
 
kundica said:
The correction matrix "RG Phosphor edr" is included in the software installation(off the CD or by installing Device Services), but the Dell software doesn't use it by default because it fails to find the displayTechTypes.xml which directs it to use the correct .edr. If you're using the Dell Calibration software, without forcing it to use the correct edr, then you're calibrations are off(most likely with whitepoint). I've detailed how to force it to use the correct edr in post #199:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039629784&postcount=199
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Thanks for the detailed post!

In that post, you said after your changes " tried to manually set sRGB in DCCS, but it failed to return great results."

I'm after sRGB, so ... are the results better for sRGB with the changes (but still not great), and in what way are they still off?

And would your instructions be different if two U2713H's are connected?
 
highGamutWannabe said:
Thanks for the detailed post!

In that post, you said after your changes " tried to manually set sRGB in DCCS, but it failed to return great results."

I'm after sRGB, so ... are the results better for sRGB with the changes (but still not great), and in what way are they still off?

And would your instructions be different if two U2713H's are connected?
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The results with or without forcing the RG Phosphor edr are not great, but the white point will be incorrect without the edr. All my changes do is tell the software that I'm using a GB-LED panel.

In regard to me manually setting the coordinates... I was trying to force the software to do everything manually because if you just choose sRGB in the drop down all you can change is the luminance. I wanted to set two sRGB settings, one for gamma 2.2 and one for gamma 2.4 at different luminance values. Each time I tried to force manual settings my results would vary from okay to way off. At one point I set gamma 2.4 and it returned gamma 2.15. I don't find the hardware calibration to be very reliable and I certainly wouldn't trust it for any professional work.

I'm not sure how to address two of these monitors. I had one and sent it back.
 
kundica said:
The results with or without forcing the RG Phosphor edr are not great, but the white point will be incorrect without the edr. All my changes do is tell the software that I'm using a GB-LED panel.

In regard to me manually setting the coordinates... I was trying to force the software to do everything manually because if you just choose sRGB in the drop down all you can change is the luminance. I wanted to set two sRGB settings, one for gamma 2.2 and one for gamma 2.4 at different luminance values. Each time I tried to force manual settings my results would vary from okay to way off. At one point I set gamma 2.4 and it returned gamma 2.15. I don't find the hardware calibration to be very reliable and I certainly wouldn't trust it for any professional work.

I'm not sure how to address two of these monitors. I had one and sent it back.
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My understanding is that the gamma for sRGB (and I suppose rec709 also) is a curve, not a value. How would one enter the gamma as a value and get more accurate results?

I hope that Simon on TFT Central comments on your post (for changing the edr), and possibly modifies his review? He certainly seems very thorough, so perhaps he's reviewing the data now?
 
highGamutWannabe said:
My understanding is that the gamma for sRGB (and I suppose rec709 also) is a curve, not a value. How would one enter the gamma as a value and get more accurate results?

I hope that Simon on TFT Central comments on your post (for changing the edr), and possibly modifies his review? He certainly seems very thorough, so perhaps he's reviewing the data now?
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Well, when I say sRGB, I'm really just talking about the primaries.
 
Um guys will games look better on a 10 bit panel? I got LG 27EA83 instead but they use same panels as far as i know.
 
One thing I have found is if you are going to only make use of the sRGB mode, you're probably better off with the HM.

I was questioning why my ACD looked more vibrant compared to the H when emulating sRGB. Turns out the ACD and the HM use special phosphors which extend the gamut slightly out of sRGB, giving more vibrant colours without overly over saturating everything. The H on the other hand stays well and truly in the sRGB band, giving the washed out appearance I was getting (next to an ACD which is of course glossy). It had confounded me because I talked to a photographer who used the HM and he mentioned the HM looked the same as a glossy display he had used for years beforehand, so I was confused about my differing experience until now.

I did try Adobe RGB but to me it saturates reds too much, wide gamut, even more!

So if you're looking for sRGB only, I'd say get the HM, as it'll be slightly better looking than the H emulating sRGB.
 
LC155 said:
So if you're looking for sRGB only, I'd say get the HM, as it'll be slightly better looking than the H emulating sRGB.
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Thanks, but it's not so much that I need a monitor that just does sRGB, I need one that has accurate and consistant hardware calibration to sRGB. I wouldn't have even considered a Dell, but the specs/price point on these new monitors seemed like it was worth the shot. On paper they're professional panels, but in reality they're just very nice consumer products. The monitor felt unfinished to me, especially its implementation of hardware calibration. While Dell will probably work out many of the kinks eventually, I'm not interested in fielding a product for them.
 
If you're looking for extremely accurate, you'd really have to be going for the super expensive NEC monitors and such. These consumer level Dells would never do it for you, in that case. However, for 99% of people sticking an i1 on them and calibrating it that way is accurate enough. If it's accurate enough for photographers, it'll be accurate enough for me at least!
 
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