Commodore Rocks...Because I Said So

[category_five]

Public Relations companies send out these press releases as ‘cheap news’. News companies (like [H]ardOCP) pick through these press releases on slow news days. The good PR companies make press releases that read like a news story, the newspapers and online news aggregators can post the stories in their entirety and no one is the wiser that its a PR piece; it reads like a real article. In the case of this press release it’s obviously not something that can be reprinted directly without sounding like an advertisement. So this PR company is pretty obvious and unsophisticated. Furthermore this PR firm committed what amounts to a grave sin in PR - lying on a press release. That will quickly get a PR company banned from getting free airtime in the media, which undermines the whole purpose of PR in the first place. The fact that there are bumbling PR firms out there is really not at all newsworthy.

Reading into it, it doesn’t appear that the inflated claim is what particularly irked Kyle, I would say that the flippant tone from the PR guy is what prompted this whole smear piece. According to Kyle “the emails and messages got ugly and personal and there is nothing to be gained by sharing those with you”. The whole point of this smear article is obviously to get “ugly and personal”. The impression I am left with is that the reason the readers are not let into the finer details of the conversation is because the ones getting “ugly and personal” were the staff of [H]ardOCP.

The implied message of this entire article is that if you’re a PR firm that doesn’t approach the staff of [H]ardOCP with the proper respect and humility deserved by the owners of one of the largest enthusiast websites on the internet then you’ll receive a smear campaign designed to crush your client company. To me, that seems to be an unwarranted and juvenile response that sheds [H]ardOCP staff and its readership (including me) in a terrible light. Poor show.

 

[michael.pa2]

The implied message of this entire article is that if you’re a PR firm that doesn’t approach the staff of [H]ardOCP with the proper respect and humility deserved by the owners of one of the largest enthusiast websites on the internet then you’ll receive a smear campaign designed to crush your client company. To me, that seems to be an unwarranted and juvenile response that sheds [H]ardOCP staff and its readership (including me) in a terrible light. Poor show.

Well,you're right on one point - respect does play into this.As in the complete lack of respect on the PR representative's part for the knowledge the operators of this forum have in the enthusiast area,as well as the readers.He came with outrageous claims and no proof,and expected us to simply accept them.If anyone thinks that exposing someone who's making false claims to get your money is unwarranted,there are plenty of sites and magazines who will accept such claims blindly for the sake of advertising dollars where you can go for your information.Just don't come back here crying when you get ripped off.

 

[zoulias]

I'm wondering if there is some additional backlash coming from this? I seem to be seeing alot of blank space where add banners belong on [H] the last day or so. I still stand behind Kyle and I hope he's not losing add dollars over standing up to a snotty PR guy.

Interesting...I see that too. Id be suprised however if the two things are related.

 

[category_five]

He came with outrageous claims and no proof,and expected us to simply accept them

No, he came with outrageous claims, expecting them to be published (not necessarily accepted) which is exactly what happened. Which is exactly what the PR company wanted to happen. Was the 30% gain inflated? Of course it was; it's what PR companies do. Further examination of the PR piece will, of course, reveal that the Commodore was compared to a midrange Dell XPS sporting an Nvidia 8500, which any enthusiast computer would have a difficult time not beating by a huge margin, or will turn out to be measured by some equally useless metric. These are things that PR companies are paid to do. Not just Dave from Traction Public Relations, all PR companies do this.

Why would they lie or fudge the benchmarks? To gain publicity and to deceive. But you might be saying to yourself, I would never buy their product because they're liars. The PR company doesn't care, nor does Commodore. What they need is for you to say or type the name "Commodore" until it rolls of your tongue. Spread the news about how horrible Commodore is, post it on every forum! When the Commodore system eventually gets reviewed, it will be all over the net, even [H]ardOCP, despite Kyle's hurt feelings, will practically be forced to review the system now, even if to just to prove how mediocre it is. The PR firm doesn't care - Dave did his job. Everyone here is talking about Commodore.

In the process of trying to teach a useless PR drone a lesson due to a wounded over-inflated ego, Kyle has exponentially increased the coverage of the Commodore and Traction Public Relations, without any concrete evidence for or against any of the claims made about Commodore, and all the while [H]ardOCP is the one who's reputation is tarnished. Brilliant!

 

[category_five]

I'm wondering if there is some additional backlash coming from this? I seem to be seeing alot of blank space where add banners belong on [H] the last day or so. I still stand behind Kyle and I hope he's not losing add dollars over standing up to a snotty PR guy

.

Interesting...I see that too. Id be suprised however if the two things are related.

I'm seeing all the ads on the main page without problems

 

[Xrave]

The thing is that to me at lest it seems like Kyle just went ini mini miny moe and his finger landed on Commodores email. As I said before just about every PR sent from tech companies say they they are the leader in their industry, and yes we know that most of them are lying and accept them as lies and read nothing further into it knowing such.

Kyle is calling shens on Commodore with no numbers to disprove them even though Commodore PR cant seem to give them numbers as proof of their claim. I myself dont believe the 30% claim but wouldn't post an article until I had proof of such.

Commodore didn't simply say they were the leader in the industry. Commodore said they lead the industry by 30% in 3dMark06.

This means they have statistics using a benchmarking program, so they should at least have a list of what machines they tested against. This is what Kyle asked for and what the PR guy didn't provide.

 

[michael.pa2]

I keep reading how OCP's reputation has been tarnished by this.How so?Their reputation is for no nonsense,straightforward reviews.If ego was a problem,this thread wouldn't be as large as it is now,any negative comments would have been erased.And I doubt very much that Commodore engineered all this just to get publicity like this,if they did,they're as dumb as their PR guy.It's what happened in the review that's getting the attention,not their product.No one's going to rush out and buy their computer based on what they've read here,if anything,the opposite is true.

 

[GilmourD]

I keep reading how OCP's reputation has been tarnished by this.How so?Their reputation is for no nonsense,straightforward reviews.If ego was a problem,this thread wouldn't be as large as it is now,any negative comments would have been erased.And I doubt very much that Commodore engineered all this just to get publicity like this,if they did,they're as dumb as their PR guy.It's what happened in the review that's getting the attention,not their product.No one's going to rush out and buy their computer based on what they've read here,if anything,the opposite is true.

The [H]'s reputation has only been ruined in the minds of those ball-lacking little vermin who bend over and take PR bullshit like Dave handed to Kyle.

 

[Trepidati0n]

The [H]'s reputation has only been ruined in the minds of those ball-lacking little vermin who bend over and take PR bullshit like Dave handed to Kyle.

My realtor is a complete and total bitch. She is short, blunt, and gets down right rude when people start blowing smoke. However I have never heard of the people she represents being disappointed with the home she finds for them or the price they pay or the homes she sells and the amount she gets for them. When it comes to capitalism...I'll take value, quality, and price over being nice. Save being nice for a Sunday picnic.

 

[chaos4u]

Press release states they are a leader

commodore has not been a leader for a very long time so the questions stands

(ill ignore the first response as i do not know what to make of it.)

the reply ... they have beat every other high performance pc without over clocking ....

that is very strong statement

then elobrates by saying .. as much as 30% i

to which kyle replys ...

"How exactly do you contribute 30% 3DMark score increases to a comparably equipped PC?"

is there anything wrong with that question ? seems perfectly legit to me.

so the pr guys says hes not engineer talks about custom configs nothing solid

so kyle asks

for data backing up the claim

so far this all seems pretty reasonable

then kyle gets an phone call asking why he seems so bitter ?
asking why he is picking on the press release and what they may have done to anger him.

so far from what i have read kyle does not seem angry he just wants some numbers to look at regarding the previous claims.

then the pr guy sends an email offering a review sample and doing some clarification that its not overclocked and needs to benched aginst other non overclocked machines .

but remember this is not what kyle asked for .. he just wanted some data.
i do not see any reference to kyle requesting a system to evaluate .

so as stated many times kyle request for information was ignored

so know kyle sends an email albeit not exactly nice but it is to the point he asks again where is the data i requested ??

and then the emails apparently get ugly...

but why ?? all that was needed was a simple reply to the first request for information..

it could have been yes il have the engineers get back to you on it ..

and more than likely we would be reading a different article or no article at all


but instead the pr guys chooses to pursue this and wants to send kyle a machine

which is not what he asked for ...

how can this be anymore simple the company was wanting some pr on kyles

site

kyle requested information was ignored apparently it got ugly when it shouldn't have ...

i see no wrong in what kyle has done if he was giving the information that he had requested in the first place this would have been a non issue

and simple blurb on the front of hard ocp ..

 

[BillParrish]

I see in the Banner Ads there is something billed as the ULITMATE LAN
Festival something or other. I say we sic Kyle on them, as in how they justify calling it the Ultimate anything. Its in Canada for gods sake! (actually I like Canada, just a long drive is all) Now if it was at my house and with free beer and naked women I might consider it Ultimate, otherwise, not so much.


Everything is hype and I am sick of it. You go Kyle, and that guy on the radio that says I can make 30K a week with email, find and hurt him, just a little, for me. Thanks.

 

[Servant of Shodan]

Kyle, you haven’t yet responded to my questions – not that you have to or anything, but you do seem to like your own questions answered…

I’m just curious, and I think other people are too.

1) Do you accept the possibility that Dave’s first, “Are you serious?” was in fact sincere, and that he may have known exactly who you are, and was surprised that a well-known hardware DIY enthusiast was taking interest in Commodore?

2) Do you think you were rude to Dave? I am not asking for comparison of who called who names, or who inferred this or that, well he started it, etc… Were you rude to Dave?

3) Do you think you could/should have handled this matter differently? Or would you do it all again the same way?

 

[Azzr34l]

PR guy originally says this:

In some cases we have beat major gaming systems by 30% in 3DMark tests.

I see people jumping on this as if the PR guy said "We beat every major gaming system by 30% in all 3DMark tests." Why is it so hard to fathom that their machine may actually beat some competitors by 30% in all the tests or possibly some of them and not the composite score? Surely nobody can top HP machines' 3DMark scores!

Kyle asks the PR guy how he attributes the 30% increase and the PR guy says some mish mash, but offers to let Kyle interview the engineers. Sounds reasonable to me.

Kyle's response to the mumbo jumbo the PR guy offered was out of line in the professional world.

Have the engineer send me the test data that backs up your 30% claim with system specifications and BIOS settings. Should not be a hard thing for a leading company in the PC space to produce. I would love to review it.

He states it very matter of factly like he's this guys boss or something. Not "Can you" or "Please have the engineer send me.....", but "Send it". The icing on the cake of arrogance is the next line:

Should not be a hard thing for a leading company in the PC space to produce

. This was totally uncalled for and very unprofessional. Maybe in the business of hardware review sites, you can be rude and prodding, but in the vast majority of other businesses, that doesn't go over too well. From there, the replies just went downhill.

IMO, Kyle was the antagonist and brought this on. Having it plastered on the front page is kind of tacky as well.

 

[a2vr6]

Personally I agree with desultadox, you were going way out of your way to pick a fight in a few of your responses. Nothing wrong about being frank, I'm all about being frank, but throwing out flamebait and then looking around trying to look innocent about it is a whole nother story.

To me it just looks like you're looking for a new small guy to pick on after the Phantom people. Let me ask you this, do you speak/type in that same candid tone to the bigger ups like Dell, Alienware, nVidia, etc. when they send you bs pr and you decide to challenge them on it?

I agree, its one thing to be frank another to be rude. Kyle, I think your right to call on his BS but there was no need to escalate like that. I think it was inappropriate of you to start the flame war knowing full well it would escalate. It could have been defused way before it got to your response of "Show me your not BSing message". I don't think you would even dare that sort of response with a larger company. Sorry....but I still love Hardocp.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Anyone know who S3 is? (the graphics card company, not the VIA owned company)

Several people e-mailed Kyle asking him (myself included) to help us with the broken T&L and he basically said to kiss his rear end and that he didn't care.

Any one remeber how he railed ATi over the R200? but took a much softer approach to Nvidia when that joke of a card was released to compete with the LEGENDARY R300 series?

when he talks about things like this, I just ignore him becuase this is what I EXPECT from him.

anyone who gets to bent out of shape over a PR guy needs to take some anger management classes..........

 

[magoo]

"Would you kindly" send me the data that backs up your claim of 30% performance increases????

"Would you kindly" unbunch your panties???

"Would you kindly"send me a Commodore PC so I can run a sledge hammer through it???
of course after spending several days testing your performance claims.

Is this how it should have gone???? I think not.

 

[FadedSpark]

"Would you kindly" send me the data that backs up your claim of 30% performance increases????

"Would you kindly" unbunch your panties???

"Would you kindly"send me a Commodore PC so I can run a sledge hammer through it???
of course after spending several days testing your performance claims.

Is this how it should have gone???? I think not.

if we had a rep system, i would + you right now. i just keep brownie points in my head for now

Would you kindly... heheh

 

[TheNomad]

My inbox is like Kyle's (probably not as many useful emails though) each day with PR mails from freshwater angling companies regarding their new products, and some of the claims they make are 'out of this world'. Same as Kyle, I have questioned their claims (sometimes on a daily basis) and some try to back it up with technical spiel (which luckily I understand and can debunk if blatent BS) where as others send the products to me to put through their paces myself. Most of the time, the PR is total BS and the way I subjectively put the producsts through their paces give cast iron proof to the debunks. I have lost more advertising revenue than I care to recall because of this, but the readers of the site appreciate it as it saves them money! When you are looking at several thousand GBP for a piece of carbon, it should perform up to the claimed performance. I have even been asked to be part of manufacturers products consultation & design teams, but I decline due to my position within the site (I cannot be biased towards any one company because they pay me to design and put my thoughts towards products). Same applies to Kyle and the others at [H]. Would you think that other sites such as THG would give the same response if it meant that "C" would not advertise with them if they didn't? Not at all. THG as an example would have probably replied with "how much to put this PR on our homepage?" without even testing it themselves.

I am totally 100% behind Kyle & his decision here on this as the PR guy was the one that started any so-called bad feelings by responding to a perfectly legitimate question to back up the claims (with Kyle even offering to build the system himself and configure it exactly how C had) and was asked if he was serious!

 

[Velocity_Micro]

While staying out of this discussion about a potential new competitor, Kyle typically sends me one line e-mails, and I've always understood he's keeping the BS out, which I truly appreciate. Everyone in the PC business knows this. Nobody takes it personally, just business.This incident does not seem out of character for Kyle, who takes his responsibility to al of us readers very seriously.

 

[Deleted member 68403]

While staying out of this discussion about a potential new competitor, Kyle typically sends me one line e-mails, and I've always understood he's keeping the BS out, which I truly appreciate. Everyone in the PC business knows this. Nobody takes it personally, just business.This incident does not seem out of character for Kyle, who takes his responsibility to al of us readers very seriously.

Well put sir. My respect for you and Velocity Micro has just gone up a notch.

 

[Angry_Games]

To be honest, even though I'm a big [H]ardOCP fan, I found Kyle's emails to be unjustifiably curt or even downright rude. I kind of think it's unprofessional to even post this, especially if it came from email outside of the press release. By not including ALL the emails, it's even borderline unethical. None of this seems fair at all; not to Commodore and not to [H]ardOCP readers.

On the flipside, do I believe a thing Commodore's PR had to say about their computers? Not at all.

I don't find it unethical at all. If a company drops a press release with some claims that can be (not necessarily are, but can be with proper testing) verified, then the company making the claims needs to come out and allow the testing to be done independently.

PR almost always writes checks that engineering cannot cash. The biggest problem with this is that almost all websites that do tech writing/reviewing simply post up the press release without much question (especially since it means they might get some hardware to test/review later on). As rude as Kyle can be sometimes, it is especially necessary to make a company tell the truth or prove their claims of the truth, and when a company balks, they must be taken to task.

Too many of us have purchased based on PR releases only to find out later that the real performance is nothing like the PR people claimed.

Don't make claims that cannot be backed up by independent verification. If you do make such claims and don't back them up, you deserve to be dropped into the alligator pit. Maybe it will be a lesson for the PR people (other than "never send PR releases to HardOCP" haha), but most importantly, it is a lesson for you, the readers of this site.

The lesson is "we tell the truth here, even if we piss a lot of people off, and even if we have to get rude towards the claimants".

Maybe not all of you will agree with this, but I for one still read HardOCP after all these years as no matter how much I dislike Kyle sometimes, I know he won't bs me, and he will ask the hard questions. Maybe I don't agree with all the reviews and articles, but I've come to appreciate reading some companies getting their behinds handed to them for making stupid statements/claims.

Sure he might have been a little nicer, less rude, but honestly, I'm just as rude to companies who make nonsense claims (even lost my job over it when I confronted my own company about their bs and nonsense they were feeding our customers).

Be thankful you guys have someone that will write it up as-is so you yourselves don't get sucked up into the giant PR-hype machine and spend your money foolishly (however, like me, you probably still will sometimes hehe)

 

[towert7]

I also have to say that near the beginning of the article, I thought what kyle said was a little strange (just didn't sound right to me), though people are entitled to say strange things.

I also would like to say that the name of the article "Commodore Rocks...Because I Said So" is really childish.
Oh well, a few mistakes, not much harm done, just a learning experience for you guys at hardocp.

 

[Nenu]

Just to add my support to Kyle and [H]'s, thanks for making this a big issue.
We need more reviewers to stand their ground on the ethics of the info companies like Commodore provide to the public.

Kyles response was strong but then again, he has to cope with a lot more than just the BS people give so its no surprise that the guy had this coming.
If Commodore wasnt so big a name it wouldnt matter so much but just think of the sales Commodore can make by advertising their products are 30% faster for a while under the Commodore brand.
Commodore know they will eventually have to change their marketing description but in the meantime they've made a lot of money and gained a lot of exposure... as long as no-one calls them on it publicly lol.

Kyle brought this straight out into the open and gave good exposure to an unethical practise employed by Commodore.
Cheers!

 

[schwank]

Their performance claims may be bold but frankly if I got an whiny email like the one at the top of the second page talking about panties in a bunch, I would just immediately add you to my junk senders list. That is not the way to communicate professionally and certainly not the way to get the data you are looking for. The followup to that message was much better.

But then to talk about how you are not willing to spend your time testing the machine to disprove their claims... WTF? That is exactly what the [H] is supposed to do. That's why I come here. You test all sorts of random machines from different makers and post the results and your interpretation. Now in this case you are unwilling to do the same and just want to analyze the press release and ask for their explanation? Were you gonna take it on face value and spit it back to us? If you want to talk about performance and whether it meets their claims, test the damn thing. Don't post email chains that look like teenagers arguing on an internet forum. I can read that drivel anyday.

So I'm sorry, but the [H] gets no sympathy on this one from me. If I saw a machine with a commodore logo on it at some store, I would laugh anyway, as I'm sure would most enthusiasts who build their own machines. Evidently Commodore hit a little sore spot in Kyle and he had to lambaste them in public to show his power. This isn't news, it's a soap opera. Let us know when you have something useful.

 

[michael.pa2]

But then to talk about how you are not willing to spend your time testing the machine to disprove their claims... WTF? That is exactly what the [H] is supposed to do. That's why I come here. You test all sorts of random machines from different makers and post the results and your interpretation. Now in this case you are unwilling to do the same and just want to analyze the press release and ask for their explanation? Were you gonna take it on face value and spit it back to us? If you want to talk about performance and whether it meets their claims, test the damn thing. Don't post email chains that look like teenagers arguing on an internet forum. I can read that drivel anyday.

Read the article again,there was no machine to test,and there probably wasn't going to be one forthcoming.It was pretty obvious that taking their press release at face value and not getting the facts was exactly what Commodore wanted,and Kyle didn't bite.When a company makes the kind of claims they did,then says you'll have to wait months for a unit to test when you ask them to back up those claims,it's clear what they were up to.

 

[harsaphes]

glad to see the Commodores are making a come back, they were one of my favorite bands.

 

[Manny Calavera]

I'm just appalled that a PR guy would actually respond with "Are you serious?!"

Too true,my wife,who does customer service for a living said the same thing after she read Kyle's article on this insanity.

 

[Manny Calavera]

"Would you kindly" send me the data that backs up your claim of 30% performance increases????

"Would you kindly" unbunch your panties???

"Would you kindly"send me a Commodore PC so I can run a sledge hammer through it???
of course after spending several days testing your performance claims.

Is this how it should have gone???? I think not.

Bioshock FTW !!

Well put sir. My respect for you and Velocity Micro has just gone up a notch.

Likewise here.

glad to see the Commodores are making a come back, they were one of my favorite bands.

Being the operative word here !

 

[Tanclearas]

So, let me get this straight. You replied to him in an unprofessional manner (panties comment) because he first replied to you in an unprofessional manner? How old are you?

As for the article... You mean to tell me a PR guy is full of crap?! What's this world coming to? Next thing you know, used car salesmen will start ripping people off!

Glad you're happy about all the page hits though. I'm just really sad that I was one of them.

 

[TheCollective]

Haven't posted here in a while but I want to say that Kyle was dead-on. Granted, one-liners in email can make you sound like a bit of a dick, but the guy was given a pitch down the middle of the plate and chose to blow it.

You don't use the same hardware everyone else does and gain 30 percent in performance by adding your special sauce. Kyle called him on his bullshit and rightly so.

If Commodore wants to be taken seriously by the enthusiast market they need to shoot straight with the people that get the information to the consumers.

 

[0xygenthief]

Reply to Post by Oxygenthief:

If you area really a long time reader, then you should know that Kyle is the founder and "owner" of HardOcp, so his position cannot be "reconsidered."

I am well aware that he is the founder, no arguement there. But I am not privy to the inner-workings of HardOCP. How would I know if the company doesn't have multiple owners, silent partners, hell even a board of directors? Truth is I don't, and neither do you. Unless you work at HardOCP or are best buds with Kyle I doubt anyone in this forum knows.

I do appreciate you drawing attention to this point though. After further consideration I believe my intentions would be better served by saying KYLE himself should reconsider his position at HardOCP. Much like Nixon reconsidered his presidency just before he resigned his position. I think this would go a long way to garner trust and appreciation from his visitors since such an act would be selfless and in the best interests of his readers.

I am not saying he shouldn't continue to be the Chief Editor but perhaps leaving the journalism to others with better people skills would do the company and us readers a better service.

 

[gathagan]

You don't use the same hardware everyone else does and gain 30 percent in performance by adding your special sauce. Kyle called him on his bullshit and rightly so..

Exactly.

When you are just another integrator putting together parts, it's pretty stupid to claim superiority simply because your "engineers" hand-picked the RAM.

On another note:
To those who don't see the ads on HardOCP , I have two words: popup blocker.
Firefox with AdBlockPlus, for instance

 

[DiddlySquat]

I actually like that there was personality when it came to this interview.

Kyle and the rest of [H]ardOCP have my vote.

Personal feelings come into light every once in awhile. If that didn't happen, you wouldn't be human. Screw being super-polite and keeping your tongues on a short lease.....be yourselves and keep reminding us readers that this place isn't being run by robots.

Also, I hope no one chooses to resign over this debate...It's 17+ pages of forum-goers debating, much like the rest of the internet.

 

[magoo]

glad to see the Commodores are making a come back, they were one of my favorite bands.

That made me laugh.

 

[FrgMstr]

Kyle, you haven’t yet responded to my questions – not that you have to or anything, but you do seem to like your own questions answered…

I’m just curious, and I think other people are too.

1) Do you accept the possibility that Dave’s first, “Are you serious?” was in fact sincere, and that he may have known exactly who you are, and was surprised that a well-known hardware DIY enthusiast was taking interest in Commodore?

2) Do you think you were rude to Dave? I am not asking for comparison of who called who names, or who inferred this or that, well he started it, etc… Were you rude to Dave?

3) Do you think you could/should have handled this matter differently? Or would you do it all again the same way?

Sorry we have had other things to do around here, so I lost track of this thread. Hard to be on top of this week's happenings if I am still reading last's.

1. Sure. That is why I asked the exact same question again. I literally cut and pasted it and sent it again. Given I have NO experience with Commodore, I truly wanted to know what makes them a leader in an industry they have just entered. Totally valid question in my mind. As noted earlier, we see claims like this all the time, but when it comes from a company I have only heard of once before, I want to know why they think they are a leader.

2. No I was not rude to Dave except for the "panties in a wad" remark. This is of course AFTER he calls me bitter etc etc. I very much did want him to get off the personal issues he seemed to be having and get back to specifics. That is exactly what I asked. I will state here and now that I NEVER said anything to attack him personally or business-wise in the rest of our conversations. He went as far as to call HardOCP "a 3rd tier website that nobody would waste their time visiting." He went on to outright lie to Commodore when they had been copied in on the conversation saying that I stated I would never give them a good review no matter what the hardware showed. Dave lied to me, he wanted me to lie to you, and he lied to Commodore Gaming.

3. Yes, exactly the same, except for asking him to get his "panties out of a wad" which they certainly seemed to be. He took a response to a business PR and made it personal. He sees my questions of asking him to prove his specific performance claims as a personal attack on him and his company. I think the guy is just nuts or something. I have never see a PR person react like this. I ask PR people questions about their PR statements ALL THE TIME. I usually get, "Hang on, I will get with an engineer and get you an answer." What is really funny is how many PR professionals ( many I don't even know ) have sent emails telling me "Thanks" for posting the article showing how NOT to do it. Never lie in your PRs. Spin is one thing, outright lies are another.

I am not sure how many times I have to ask the same question over and over and over to never get an answer. If Commodore was not going to supply the data or could not back up their statements, they should have never mailed me back. Had they ignored me, I would suggest there never would have been anything to talk about. And obviously when it comes to their performance claims, there is no data to talk about.

 

[FrgMstr]

I agree, its one thing to be frank another to be rude. Kyle, I think your right to call on his BS but there was no need to escalate like that. I think it was inappropriate of you to start the flame war knowing full well it would escalate. It could have been defused way before it got to your response of "Show me your not BSing message". I don't think you would even dare that sort of response with a larger company. Sorry....but I still love Hardocp.

I would suggest Commodore "started" the "flame war." I did not call anyone any names in this exchange ever. I did explain that I thought they were lying to me. So yes, I called bullshit on them and they got excited and attacked me and HardOCP.

If you don't think I would even dare that sort of response with a larger company, well, you would be wrong. Ask several of them about that and see what they say. The fact is that the larger companies don't bring us smoldering heaps of bullshit disguised as a PR statement. And if you want to go back and spend the time looking, we have called out companies that spend more on lunch than Commodore is worth.

 

[GilmourD]

Considering how crazy this guy Dave seems to be... Let me ask this question that nobody else seemed to ask...

Is he really a PR guy or is he a fanboy that attempted (very badly) to go to bat for a company he likes?

 

[RogerX]

So am I to understand that the concensus summary so far is as follows?

1) Commodore is full of $h!t
2) Kyle is an @$$hole

 

[FrgMstr]

Considering how crazy this guy Dave seems to be... Let me ask this question that nobody else seemed to ask...

Is he really a PR guy or is he a fanboy that attempted (very badly) to go to bat for a company he likes?

I did some research on him before I engaged him. I have no desire to go to bat with any company or rep that I think is going to be a waste of time. His company has a decent list of clients and he has written several articles about PR in the gaming arena. This is where Commodore went wrong hiring this guy. He comes from the gaming side of the aisle, not the hardware side. He is probably used to being able to make claims that no one ever expects him to back up. Obviously this does not fly in the hardware world and his lack of hardware experience is no excuse for his behavior.

 

[FrgMstr]

So am I to understand that the concensus summary so far is as follows?

1) Commodore is full of $h!t
2) Kyle is an @$$hole

I think we already knew #2 way before Dave showed up.