Commodore Rocks...Because I Said So

Status
Not open for further replies.
Technoob said:
Maybe the fact that Kyle made a public post in his own forum with open comments and invited people in the very article to comment on it? Other than that...no authority at all.
Click to expand...

and you know, it's fine to say you disagree with it, and to give some reasons for it, but at the end of the day, calling anyone names, flame baiting, jumping to conclusions about people...things go from what could be a nice discussion, to personal attacks and just plain stubbornness and stupidity.
 
Dr.LaRd said:
and you know, it's fine to say you disagree with it, and to give some reasons for it, but at the end of the day, calling anyone names, flame baiting, jumping to conclusions about people...things go from what could be a nice discussion, to personal attacks and just plain stubbornness and stupidity.
Click to expand...
-
-
---------You mean like with Kyles conversation with dave? Sorry couldnt resist that...too easy
 
Servant of Shodan said:
1) My first question for Kyle is: Do you accept the possibility that Dave’s first, “Are you serious?” was in fact sincere, and that he may have known exactly who you are, and was surprised that a well-known hardware DIY enthusiast was taking interest in Commodore?

Here’s why I ask: For my regular full-time job, I sell pianos for a living. I sell Steinway & Sons, Boston, and Essex pianos. All are designed by Steinway, they’re all great in their respective price categories, but each one has a specific target market. Now, if Billy Joel, or Elton John, or Lang Lang, or any international piano super star walked into my store, passed the very best Steinway we have, which is $107,000, and said, “I want to check out the performance of your $28,000 Boston piano,” my response may very well be, “Are you serious?” NOT because I think the person doesn’t have the money, but because I am so shocked they are paying attention to a product I would have thought completely outside their scope of interest.

If I worked at Commodore, and Kyle Bennett of [H]ard|OCP called or emailed me, I would be surprised and shocked too.
Click to expand...

The problem with that example is that there is some sort of establishment or "common knowledge" within the piano industry that would drive you to say that. I doubt Commodore would establish themselves to such a degree in the computer industry unless they've been living in their own little world. If Commodore so happened to be the makers of the biggest, baddest and most expensive PCs out there, sure that response (from the PR dude) would hold some water. However, it seems as if the PR guy assumed that Commodore is undesputed in the industry. I can't understand any other reason for him to give the "are you serious?" response.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
The problem with that example is that there is some sort of establishment or "common knowledge" within the piano industry that would drive you to say that. I doubt Commodore would establish themselves to such a degree in the computer industry unless they've been living in their own little world. If Commodore so happened to be the makers of the biggest, baddest and most expensive PCs out there, sure that response (from the PR dude) would hold some water. However, it seems as if the PR guy assumed that Commodore is undesputed in the industry. I can't understand any other reason for him to give the "are you serious?" response.
Click to expand...

Sorry, my fault in using a personal example that may be unfamiliar:
The Boston (although $28,000) is a mid-priced piano, and the performance is something that a world-class player would not be interested in - hence my surprise if a Billy Joel or Elton John came in asking about it.

Similarly, whatever their publicity spin may be, Commodore knows they do not, have a big market presence, prestige, or reputation. So when somebody like Kyle Bennett, who is recognized, established, has a "world-class" if you will reputation, I would think Commodore would be surprised he is even taking notice.
 
Technoob said:
just more lashing out at the people disagreeing with you and coming off like a commenter on digg or fark, rather than the industry badass I always saw you as. Kind of a shameful degeneration really.

Still love your site, and doubt you care at all, but this was posted and has an open commentary, so I'm commenting. Other sites would probably close the comments the minute someone criticized the site admin.
Click to expand...

I degenerated a LONG time ago. Where you been?
 
Servant of Shodan said:
Sorry, my fault in using a personal example that may be unfamiliar:
The Boston (although $28,000) is a mid-priced piano, and the performance is something that a world-class player would not be interested in - hence my surprise if a Billy Joel or Elton John came in asking about it.

Similarly, whatever their publicity spin may be, Commodore knows they do not, have a big market presence, prestige, or reputation. So when somebody like Kyle Bennett, who is recognized, established, has a "world-class" if you will reputation, I would think Commodore would be surprised he is even taking notice.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to believe that the PR man that Kyle talked to was not concerned of Kyle's taking of notice. It does not sound like "We do not have a big market presence, prestige or reputation in the industry. Why are you interested in us instead of all the other big-name companies?" Rather it seemed more sarcastic than anything else. If he meant to say something differently, "are you serious?" is not the best choice to words since its highly used in sarcasm.

If a small-name company makes press releases with such claims, responses like that is not only vague, but unprofessional in general. Kyle's main concern is to find out the justifications of their PR claims. They needed proof of some sort to justify their PR, and that's pretty much what Kyle's been asking for this whole time.
 
I read some awful comments over at Tech Report about this article before I read it for myself (http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/13187), and I have to say that now I think even less about readers.

If manufacturers can sue websites for what is said by a member in their forum (not even a staff member) because it's "damaging", then certainly it is just as damaging as some forked tongue PR snake to say his clients product is better than everyone elses.

PR reps are not all bad, and several are smart and honest, but occasionally I see some pretty stupid replies to my reviews. For example, Susie Hughes of Lewis PR (Antec's PR firm) had this to say of my Antec TP3-650 Rev. A2 TruePower Trio 650W PSU review: "I just wanted to drop you a line about your Antec TruePower Trio PSU review. It was a great article, but you note that it is an ‘eyesore’ with its lack of paint and that is has no cable sleeves. Paint can potentially have a negative impact on a high-performance PSU, and TruePower is a high performance, no compromise design which is why it doesn’t have paint or cable management."

I had the same reaction Kyle did, except for I was eventually able to repair my relationship with Antec and (barely) retain product sponsorship. But seriously, "Paint can potentially have a negative impact on a high-performance PSU, and TruePower is a high performance, no compromise design which is why it doesn’t have paint or cable management."? Are you serious? I guess Antec forgot to tell Kelly all about their upcoming TruePower Quattro series which sports plenty of paint and cable management.

At any rate, it's our job (review sites) to keep them honest. It's a shame that readers don't back us since we act in their interest, and its sad news that we can be sued by their miserable lying asses. Benchmark Reviews is just as firm with our sponsors as we are with anyone else, and if someone makes outrageous claims we make sure to burry them in a grave if they are false.
 
zoulias said:
Samurai - Im no forum master and cant deal with multiple quote stuff. I was thinking baou tfiguring it out, whilst thinking if there was ny actual point in any of your comments.
I then got to the 'gun to your mouth' analogy and realised you must have been joking all along. You arent really suggesting that defending ones life agianst physical violence is remotely similar to the way one should behave in the face of a childish verbal comment?

When someone provokes you intending to get a reaction, the stupidest thing you can do is react. Most people find this obvious.
Click to expand...

What you really mean to say is, you have no way to back up your bullshit. Thanks for admitting that in the first line. I already admitted that the analogy was not the best. What I was trying to convey is that when you are in a situation that is not civil, be it verbal, physical, or otherwise, you are NOT going to retain any sense of 'professionalism' or being the 'bigger person'. Your first and natural reaction is going to be to defend yourself and fight back. especially when you are aware that the situation you're in is wrong. By the way, it was another person shooting at you. If you even bothered to read, you would have seen that.

And yes, you fit your last line quite nicely. Thanks for playing.
 
Reply to Post by Oxygenthief:

Very Long time reader but first time poster. I typically hate getting in the middle of a flame-fest like this one but I feel compelled to do so.

I love HardOCP. I visit it daily, hell 5-6 times daily. But its articles like this that make me not want to ever visit again.

Yes, it's bad that EVERY LAST press release that EVERY COMPANY ON THE PLANET HAS EVER RELEASED has some kind of misleading information that attempts to dupe the common reader. Sadly, it isn't anything new.

But of course, that isn't what Kyle's article was about is it? It isn't about Kyle trying to get to the bottom of a huge conspiracy masterminded by Commodore! It's about Kyle acting like a 12 year old lashing out at someone.

Dave said something that Kyle took offense to. But instead of acting like a civilized adult and calmly difusing the situation he goads Dave into going on the defensive. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize what his intention was.

By asking "are you serious?" Dave inadvertantly disrespected Kyle. Instead of laughing it off or attempting to sincerely explain that he was serious he asks the same question again, like a street thug asking for someone's wallet. Run that scenario though your head and tell me you wouldn't get a litte peeved at Kyle. Kyle wanted Dave to get pissed. In fact he continued with his passive-aggressive assault with his email reply to Dave.

Long story short, someone pissed Kyle off and in turn abused his authority and power here at HardOCP to take a private pot shot at someone. No doubt doing serious damage to a company that may or may not be worthy of interest by HardOCP followers.

Kyle probably cost Dave his job. But if you ask me Kyle's position at HardOCP should be reconsidered.

This article was childish and reckless. Much props to lowering the bar for us HardOCP readers Kyle.
Click to expand...

Kyle probably cost Dave his job. But if you ask me Kyle's position at HardOCP should be reconsidered.
Click to expand...

If you area really a long time reader, then you should know that Kyle is the founder and "owner" of HardOcp, so his position cannot be "reconsidered."

I think many people here miss the obivous. This PR rep was looking for a freebie for his company. He was the one who initiated this, and not Kyle. If I had a similar web site, you are dammed right that I would want the facts verified.

If you send an un-solicited press release, and you respond to someone's request for information with "Are You Serious?", you deserve whatever you get.

This guy's arrogance really shows, when he states that he wants Kyle to spend the time and money to review their product.

And if you read the exchange, Kyle only responded with the "panties in wad" comment, after Dave insulted him.
 
Manny Calavera said:
I can vivdly remember when even mentioning that name on the forums would get you a the ban hammer.
Click to expand...

i was contemplating whether or not i should put the name....but in the end my mouse click was faster than my brain :eek:

but at this point, i don't really think there is any more that can be said about the original incident, all that is left now is the arguing about schematics.....
 
Who gives a rats backside.

Either Commodore puts up the data or a machine...and disproves they're full of crap.

Or

They do nothing and we all know where the smell is coming from, and the proof that PR is garbage is reinforced.

I spent time in Missouri, show me dammit.:D
 
14 pages and still going strong !!

Let's review the facts:
1) Commodore is attempting to enter into a new sales space. Given their lack of reputation, it would behoove Commodore to put their best foot forward.

2) David Tractenberg of Traction Public Relations sends out a press release that Commodore Gaming is a "leader in high-performance PC gaming solutions".
Since I didn't get that email myself, I'll assume that David didn't send it to everyone in the world with an email address.
I'll go out a little further on the assumption limb and assume that David sent that email to people he felt were in the appropriate group; computer enthusiast websites, gaming websites, etc...

3) A Google search of David Tractenberg produces enough hits showing his involvement in the gaming arena that it's hard to imagine that Dave doesn't know [H]'s rep.

4) Kyle asks him to back up his assertions of not only Commodore's position of leadership, but his claims of Commodore's superior performance and the reason behind it.

5) Even to the last email cited, Dave continues to assert that he's not mistated any facts and that he feels that Kyle's response has been unwarranted. That goes far beyond the level of hyperbole that has been mentioned regarding other company's slogans.

6) I see at least four courteous email exchanges before Dave's voicemail message sends things off in a different direction.

7) Regardless of how you view Kyle's level of "curtness" in his responses prior to the voice mail, David's voice mail certainly was the point where things veered off into personal attacks.
The fact that Kyle doesn't share the content of the emails that followed tells me that they were pretty ugly, as Kyle's never been one to shy away from such things.
That's awfully stupid when you're being paid to attract people to your employer's products.


Now, I'll give Dave a pass on his first response 'cause everyone has a brainfart once in a while.

The remaining responses, however, indicate to me that Dave's not the best example of effective PR.
Starting a verbal/written sparring match is inexcusable for someone in his position.
I repeat: He's being paid to attract interest.

I'll also give Commodore the benefit of the doubt that they may not have been in the loop initially, but the fact that S. Charles didn't jump in when things got a bit uglier doesn't say much about their style of management.
Even if S.Charles isn't a big cheese at Commodore, I would still expect them to try a bit of damage control.

Remember, they're the ones that want to impress us...
 
After 14 pages, I had expected someone to already have posted this.

When Dave asked if Kyle was being serious, he didn't mean "ARE SERIOUS???? WTF!!?" He was asking Kyle if he was serious because Kyle's message looked like a rhetorical question. Dave was asking if Kyle actually wanted a reply.
 
PR GUY: Retard. You are in the wrong business. You got called on the carpet and rightly so.

KYLE: We appreciate you looking out for us. You weren't completely in the wrong, and you weren't completely in the right on this issue. Be a man and admit it.

The fact that you repeatedly defend every bit of your behaviour as if you did NOTHING wrong, makes you look like a total idiot... Many of your readers have made valid points, but you just bash them or just disagree by spouting some convoluted logic. You are so busy defending your position, that you can't look past your own stubborness to realize that maybe, just maybe, you were not entirely in the right.

If you would just say " Hey, he had it coming but I could have handled that better", I would respect you a whole hell of a lot more. I care much less about your conversation with the PR guy than I do about the way you just blindly defend all your actions as 100% right.

If you are so tough and hard, as your image portrays, be f'ing man and have enough balls to admit you were not 100% in the right and end this.

I have a feeling you will never say that though. You were right 100%! When are we all going to realize that? What the hell was I thinking? I drank the koolaid and now I see the error in my ways! Everyone must bow down to almighty Kyle , the omniscient one. Kyle knows all and whatever you think you know is wrong. He is incapable of making a mistake, much less admitting one. Or is he?
 
What Servant of Shodan said was kind of the point i was trying to make.

It's like a poster on the last page said, perhaps:


ryanstev said:
After 14 pages, I had expected someone to already have posted this.

When Dave asked if Kyle was being serious, he didn't mean "ARE SERIOUS???? WTF!!?" He was asking Kyle if he was serious because Kyle's message looked like a rhetorical question. Dave was asking if Kyle actually wanted a reply.
Click to expand...

Or like Dr. Lard having the guy state the he is just a PR guy and not an engineer, i dont see that reeking of smugness, again i think we are disecting this whole thing way too much, i think it is possible that this guy may have been partially sincere and was probably a little surprised when negatory parts of the conversation caught up to him (i saw caught up because apparently he started then to respond in equal kind).

Trepidati0n said:
Actually, US tech support for Dell is pretty damn good. Just have to have the right type of PC and phone numbe to get it. ;)
Click to expand...

BLARG. I massively disagree. I spent 40 minutes in dell chat merely trying to figure out why my order form said "2007FP" instead of "2007WFP", the guy could have simply said it was an error and their ordering system was retarded and poorly abbreviated stuff to make it look like another model (which is eventually the answer i got) but i ended up answering many more questions of his, and about 20 minutes in i simply had to demand he just address the question (after giving him my entire life story of information he dared imply he "get back to me later", and he also forgot and misanswered the question several times).

I want Dell to burn so bad for it's shoddy practices...then again aside from the odd fluff piece i saw hardocp do, i wouldnt imagine Kyle gets many love letters from dell trying to convince him they are rockin the consumers jock.
 
ryanstev said:
When Dave asked if Kyle was being serious, he didn't mean "ARE SERIOUS???? WTF!!?" He was asking Kyle if he was serious because Kyle's message looked like a rhetorical question. Dave was asking if Kyle actually wanted a reply.
Click to expand...

To me Kyle's response to the press release didn't look like a rhetorical question at all. Before I saw Dave's response I was thinking that Kyle was asking for more in depth information about the press releases claims.
If I sent that release out and got a response like Kyle's, I would be very happy to hand out more information. If I was a PR guy, I think I would have lots of info that can't all fit into one press release ready for questions from ppl that I sent out the original release to.
 
Rifkin said:
To me Kyle's response to the press release didn't look like a rhetorical question at all. Before I saw Dave's response I was thinking that Kyle was asking for more in depth information about the press releases claims.
If I sent that release out and got a response like Kyle's, I would be very happy to hand out more information. If I was a PR guy, I think I would have lots of info that can't all fit into one press release ready for questions from ppl that I sent out the original release to.
Click to expand...

QFT

It seems a select few of you have your priorities really messed up.

It's ok to lie, but not ok to be rude.

Then some of you go to great lengths to keep trying to justify your hate for someone that is a little on the abrasive side, attempting to preach half-baked notions of how one should act to be successful. Why do any of you really care if Kyle is rude or not and why has this become the issue?

So what is worse, telling someone how they need to act so as to not offend you, or someone that asks someone to back up what they say in a very blunt manner?

So what is with the bitterness? We are here to have a good time and yet threads degrade to bitch slapping and frustration.
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
What you really mean to say is, you have no way to back up your bullshit. Thanks for admitting that in the first line. I already admitted that the analogy was not the best. What I was trying to convey is that when you are in a situation that is not civil, be it verbal, physical, or otherwise, you are NOT going to retain any sense of 'professionalism' or being the 'bigger person'. Your first and natural reaction is going to be to defend yourself and fight back. especially when you are aware that the situation you're in is wrong. By the way, it was another person shooting at you. If you even bothered to read, you would have seen that.

And yes, you fit your last line quite nicely. Thanks for playing.
Click to expand...

lol - I can't believe you are still defending your point. Lets assume for one seconf that 'the natural reaction is to respond in kind' (I disagree with this bit, but Ill go with it for your benefit) - does that make it RIGHT? I suspect in your frame of mind it would feel natural to want to kill someone you see sleeping with your wife - would it be right to kill them?

You are speaking rubbish - in any such situation - and they all differ greatly, unlike you seem to think - it is right to act APPROPRIATELY and not 'naturally'. The majority of educated people are more than able to control themselves in the face of a very minor verbal comment - the fact that you don't feel this is possible says a lot about your self control.

What are you on about with the 'another person shooting you' comment - its of no consequence who is doing the shooting and I didnt even mention a shooter - are you that lost for argument?

And this is a response, not a reaction - you can tell the difference because I make sense, whilst you seem to be getting easier to ignore entirely..
 
I can't believe what I'm reading! Whats wrong with some of you people, If anything I can understand Kyles frustrations, I hate being feed horseshit from PR firms only to find out I was duped later on, this type of advertising should be illegal aswell as any other missleading advertisements,
On that note, reading Hardocp for 8 years now? I have to say this site always goes after the facts, and cuts out all of the bullshit inbetween, and that is what everyone needs, PR people and advertisements are ruthless to a point that they will try to feed you a flat out lie, and I appreciate every $ I work for so I appreciate it even more when someone helps me find out who is worth the $ I spend on their products and who is full of advertising BS. There is no room for pussy footing when it comes to this, I don't like being ripped off, and none of you should either, the entire industry should come down hard on false claims and bullshit #s.
 
Das Capitolin said:
Benchmark Reviews is just as firm with our sponsors as we are with anyone else, and if someone makes outrageous claims we make sure to burry them in a grave if they are false.
Click to expand...

IF they are false - precisely! A review was never done. Kyle left that money and the story on the table. Thats what this discussion is about; not whether or not reviews should challenge claims made by PR.
 
Fer crissakes, Kyle, wait until an actual test fails wildly before ripping into them. It's going to be some months before you even get a unit?

I never understood why you made it such a personal mission to rip apart infinium labs those years ago. Both of these could be half-assed companies that will fail, but it isn't fair to hose them with bad publicity before they do.

Investigative journalism this is not.
 
venm11 said:
Fer crissakes, Kyle, wait until an actual test fails wildly before ripping into them. It's going to be some months before you even get a unit?

I never understood why you made it such a personal mission to rip apart infinium labs those years ago. Both of these could be half-assed companies that will fail, but it isn't fair to hose them with bad publicity before they do.

Investigative journalism this is not.
Click to expand...

Obviously you have no idea what Infinium was doing, do you? If you think it was just Kyle, why don't you ask the government what they think of Infinium.

Kyle asked a simple question and got a bullshit answer. How 'bout you actually read what Kyle wrote. It's easier once you get your head out of Commodore's ass.
 
choppedliver said:
You don't have to be politically correct to act like an adult. I love the no bs, no p.c attitude of this site, but that was just like watching two kids bickering.

Like the other guy said, congrats you win. Here's your cookie, but you still made a retard out of yourself. And so did he.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. I'd have to say that both participants in the exchange deserved what they got.

Kyle was good up until this point:
Kyle's email said:
Can’t back up your claims and now I am the bitter, harping guy that is picking on you? I would suggest if you are going to send your tripe to my mailbox that you can back up what you say. Now, that your panties are out of the wad, how bout we get back to specs and facts instead of your whining?
Click to expand...
This paragraph can be replaced with:

"If I'm going to post news on my site, I need to make sure I can back it up."

Sure, the guy deserved to be derided, but Kyle should know that his readers are much better at deriding fools than he is.

I was also surprised by this part:
Kyle's article said:
From this point out, the emails and messages got ugly and personal and there is nothing to be gained by sharing those with you.
Click to expand...
This implies that Kyle actually took time to continue exchanging insults with Dave, when it should have been obvious that Dave was a total waste of time.

None of the tripe, whining or panty-wad comments were needed in order to make a good point and a good article. Kyle, you were right, but your jackassery detracted from the message you were trying send.
 
It would be a few months before a unit came in that wasn’t already spoken for, are you up for it?
Click to expand...

A couple of months? You mean you can't build a new machine quicker than that? I mean, if a company like that wants PR, they would get you somethings ASAP.
 
I'm wondering if there is some additional backlash coming from this? I seem to be seeing alot of blank space where add banners belong on [H] the last day or so. I still stand behind Kyle and I hope he's not losing add dollars over standing up to a snotty PR guy.
 
enki said:
I'm wondering if there is some additional backlash coming from this? I seem to be seeing alot of blank space where add banners belong on [H] the last day or so. I still stand behind Kyle and I hope he's not losing add dollars over standing up to a snotty PR guy.
Click to expand...

I don't see any missing ads... :confused:
 
Good to hear that. I only see Newegg, ZipZoomFly and Microsoft adds. The rest are just white spaces so maybe the problem is at my end. Strange that it's only on this site though.
 
Nicepants42 said:
Agree 100%. I'd have to say that both participants in the exchange deserved what they got.

Kyle was good up until this point:This paragraph can be replaced with:

"If I'm going to post news on my site, I need to make sure I can back it up."

Sure, the guy deserved to be derided, but Kyle should know that his readers are much better at deriding fools than he is.

I was also surprised by this part:This implies that Kyle actually took time to continue exchanging insults with Dave, when it should have been obvious that Dave was a total waste of time.

None of the tripe, whining or panty-wad comments were needed in order to make a good point and a good article. Kyle, you were right, but your jackassery detracted from the message you were trying send.
Click to expand...

I think this man has said it best. It wouldn't seem so much like a personal vendetta against a company if he had been more professional as noted above in his article.
 
It saddens me that, for some here, mendacity and lesser forms of prevarication are taken for granted as having an integral part in promoting a product. This is especially disheartening in an area where accurate comparisons of relative performance are such a necessity. One would think that tech companies in general should have gotten the message that we will not tolerate this behavior indefinitely, or easily offer absolution to a company once it has become apparent they have engaged in such deceit. Does anyone else remember how customer backlash over lies concerning the G200's OpenGL support, or lack thereof, was the first nail in Matrox's coffin? Or how AMD, when introducing the K6-2 series, knew they had to release accurate, transparent, repeatable, benchmarks of the chips against Intel's offerings in order to convince the enthusiast sector of the market? Or the times when video card manufacturers were found to have tailored thier product's performance for certain benchmarks, in a bald-faced attempt to hoodwink all of us? Then there are other examples, like the Phantom scandal, that others have brought up. These are lessons the industry should have learned years ago. Each of us individually can't afford to buy every major product that comes out and subject it to a battery of tests in order to see if it was worth buying in the first place. That's why we rely on sites like this to do that, to some extent. That resource is of no value of we can't trust those in charge to ask some of the tough questions we would. Indeed, it is my opinion that Rudeness in the face of Falsehood is no vice.

Please, people, don't accept lies. The more you accept, the more companies will feel that it gives them carte blanche to feed you more of the same.
 
Paladyn said:
It saddens me that, for some here, mendacity and lesser forms of prevarication are taken for granted as having an integral part in promoting a product. This is especially disheartening in an area where accurate comparisons of relative performance are such a necessity. One would think that tech companies in general should have gotten the message that we will not tolerate this behavior indefinitely, or easily offer absolution to a company once it has become apparent they have engaged in such deceit. Does anyone else remember how customer backlash over lies concerning the G200's OpenGL support, or lack thereof, was the first nail in Matrox's coffin? Or how AMD, when introducing the K6-2 series, knew they had to release accurate, transparent, repeatable, benchmarks of the chips against Intel's offerings in order to convince the enthusiast sector of the market? Or the times when video card manufacturers were found to have tailored thier product's performance for certain benchmarks, in a bald-faced attempt to hoodwink all of us? Then there are other examples, like the Phantom scandal, that others have brought up. These are lessons the industry should have learned years ago. Each of us individually can't afford to buy every major product that comes out and subject it to a battery of tests in order to see if it was worth buying in the first place. That's why we rely on sites like this to do that, to some extent. That resource is of no value of we can't trust those in charge to ask some of the tough questions we would. Indeed, it is my opinion that Rudeness in the face of Falsehood is no vice.

Please, people, don't accept lies. The more you accept, the more companies will feel that it gives them carte blanche to feed you more of the same.
Click to expand...

The thing is that to me at lest it seems like Kyle just went ini mini miny moe and his finger landed on Commodores email. As I said before just about every PR sent from tech companies say they they are the leader in their industry, and yes we know that most of them are lying and accept them as lies and read nothing further into it knowing such.

Kyle is calling shens on Commodore with no numbers to disprove them even though Commodore PR cant seem to give them numbers as proof of their claim. I myself dont believe the 30% claim but wouldn't post an article until I had proof of such.
 
BoogerBomb said:
The thing is that to me at lest it seems like Kyle just went ini mini miny moe and his finger landed on Commodores email. As I said before just about every PR sent from tech companies say they they are the leader in their industry, and yes we know that most of them are lying and accept them as lies and read nothing further into it knowing such.

Kyle is calling shens on Commodore with no numbers to disprove them even though Commodore PR cant seem to give them numbers as proof of their claim. I myself dont believe the 30% claim but wouldn't post an article until I had proof of such.
Click to expand...

Neither of us know how Kyle does things, but I highly doubt he told himself "hmm, lemme pick a random PR e-mail and make a fool out of the company behind it."

More practically. He probably sifted through a whole bunch of PR e-mails, and questioned the validity of "fishy" or outlandish PRs. If you've been following Kyle's posts in this thread, he gave an example about the PR of the BFG video card cooling mechanism. He requested proof and got it. Got the test card on the bench, and the results turned out *better* than what was stated in the original PR. The PR turned out valid and maybe even modest. Simple as that.

However, the situation with Commodore was not so routine. With even more fishy responses from the PR rep, it was clear to him that Commodore was not willing to comply to Kyle's simple requests. And thus, Kyle has brought this situation to the public.
 
BoogerBomb said:
The thing is that to me at lest it seems like Kyle just went ini mini miny moe and his finger landed on Commodores email. As I said before just about every PR sent from tech companies say they they are the leader in their industry, and yes we know that most of them are lying and accept them as lies and read nothing further into it knowing such.
Click to expand...

While I deplore even the run-of-the-mill hyperbole used to promote a company or product, calling Commodore "a leader in high-performance PC gaming solutions" goes far beyond that. It seems to me that no matter how you parse it, or from what angle you look at it, the last time that phrase applied to Commodore was years, if not decades ago. However, the inference is that they aren't talking about their laurels from the past, so that begs the question; "What exactly makes them a leader?" The response Dave gave mentioned that the system(s) in question "beat every other high performance PC on the market without overclocking our chips" and mentioned a 30% margin in one case using 3DMark06 as a benchmark. Both claims are enough to raise eyebrows. Either one warrants further investigation. Kyle asks how this is possible, and Dave responds with an offer to speak to an engineer, and a vague explanation that really doen't hold water. Kyle asks for the information (from the engineer) that backs up the 30% claim specifically. The only thing that could be construed as the least bit non-professional was the comment that the data "should not be a hard thing for a leading company in the PC space to produce". This statement is 100% true though. If you make a quantitative statement, you need to have the data to back it up. Most companies, whether they are leaders in fact, or just aspire to be, gladly provide the source of such claims. If you encounter a company that doesn't, it is a sure sign that something is amiss. Kyle also concluded his note by saying that he would "love to review" the system.

Kyle is calling shens on Commodore with no numbers to disprove them even though Commodore PR cant seem to give them numbers as proof of their claim. I myself dont believe the 30% claim but wouldn't post an article until I had proof of such.
Click to expand...

Now, if I'm the PR guy, and there really is something to back up what I've been saying, I've just increased interest in the product I'm promoting. I send over the numbers to back up the claim. If I can't, I'll offer to set something up with someone who has access to that information. I then pat myself on the back for doing a good job for the company I represent. Dave's failure to do this brings up the other possibility, that there is, in fact, no real data to back up this claim, or that he knows that the data is so specious that is will not stand an investigation. Remember, if you're pushing a product, you are the supplicant. It isn't anyone's job to disprove your wild statements, it's your job to back them up. It's part of selling a good product.

The article was valuable, if for no other reason than it highlighted Commodore's inability or unwillingness to provide evidence for these unsubstantiated claims. As I said before, we shouldn't accept this as a justifiable standard operating procedure for organizations that compete for our hard-earned money.
 
BoogerBomb said:
The thing is that to me at lest it seems like Kyle just went ini mini miny moe and his finger landed on Commodores email. As I said before just about every PR sent from tech companies say they they are the leader in their industry, and yes we know that most of them are lying and accept them as lies and read nothing further into it knowing such.

Kyle is calling shens on Commodore with no numbers to disprove them even though Commodore PR cant seem to give them numbers as proof of their claim. I myself dont believe the 30% claim but wouldn't post an article until I had proof of such.
Click to expand...

Every company says they're the best. This is a given. I really don't think you'd buy from a company that says "We're the worst!" or "We're second to -insert competitor here-!!!" Few companies start pulling numbers out of their ass to prove they're the best, though, unless they can back it up or give some kind of demonstration to show how those numbers were made. Numbers or none, Kyle's posting is just simply a posting to show that honestly, a company that can't even pull numbers out of its ass right, shouldn't be a company you would want to do business with or purchase products from. He's calling shens because, honestly, it is. It does not take six months to build a top end, top notch computer even if you did a custom paintjob on it. I mean...what the hell is this? Big Blue Jr.?. Little Blue? And even though there's a 99.9% chance that the PR guy is bullshit, he really meant more like 10 percent, etc., there's still that .1% opportunity that maybe he's really got something that really DOES blow everything else out of the water by a good sized margin. The thing is, we need to see it. If this is the kind of systems they're cranking out to customers NOW, why the hell can't we get in on the sweetness? Just grab a sample rig off the line and call it good. Hell, at the very least, post the 3DMark scores.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top