Commodore Rocks...Because I Said So

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FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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The New Commodore Rocks – Because I Said So! : Commodore Gaming comes to HardOCP looking to get some free press about their new gaming machines in North America. Check out what happens when you ask this tech company to back up its performance claims. You wanted free press, here ya go!

When you hear a company make a specific performance claim, be sure you ask them to prove their statements with data. If its representative replies “Are you serious?” when you ask them what makes them a leader in the industry, it is a fairly good indicator that the statements are not tethered to fact. In the coverage of the enthusiast and performance computer equipment and systems, I expect at the very least a company be able to somewhat back up their statements no matter how diluted the data might be. When a company making big claims can’t even begin to back those claims up and gets offended when you ask them to do so, that is a big red flag that tells me personally to not spend my money with that company.
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Stumble to share. Digg to Share!
 
This company made some HUGE claims about their company's performance. When asked for evidence or proof to back up their claims, none was presented. Yet another company that hypes the bejesus out of their product but can't back any of it up (cough physX cough). Way to go Kyle. I thank you for providing the truth about Commodore.

- Colt
 
Did you look and see if there was a very small decimal point between the 3 and the 0?:p

Hope they dont plan to keep this up.
 
Wow, this is why you don't shoot from the hip when you write press releases.

You do know that 90% of all statistics are made up :p

<grabs chair and popcorn>

I'm ready for a show :D
 
Frg, after reading yoru site for +7 years, you still manage to make a jaded techie giggle like a school girl...WTG!!

keep it up brother...
 
Maybe their emulator runs 30% faster than the competition? But they should still be able to show how that was measured...
 
kyle i thank you personally for this article when i was 3 year tos old my love affair with computers started with my brothers/Godparents C64 and a game called rail road works. I still have the system and the game really good memories with that computer now here i am 22 years later and i am disgusted with how the Commodore name is being defamed and destroyed to make a buck... HOW DARE THEY RUIN Commodore GOOD NAME and tarnish it... HOW DARE THEY
 
I am sure that Commodore isn't the only company to do this type of stuff.
 
The article made me lol. Was informative at the same time. I'm gonna go ahead and agree with Kyle on this one, they should have had something to back it up.

Also another thing that made me wonder, is that it'd be a FEW MONTHS before they could get a computer to [H]ardOCP. I thought they built computers? WTF are they doing right now, baking cookies?
 
To be honest, even though I'm a big [H]ardOCP fan, I found Kyle's emails to be unjustifiably curt or even downright rude. I kind of think it's unprofessional to even post this, especially if it came from email outside of the press release. By not including ALL the emails, it's even borderline unethical. None of this seems fair at all; not to Commodore and not to [H]ardOCP readers.

On the flipside, do I believe a thing Commodore's PR had to say about their computers? Not at all.
 
To me this is just reading into a PR to get a story. Is this the one and only PR that HardOCP has received with performance claims and them claiming to be an industry leader? In this day and age everybody is the industry leader in their industry.
 
It's articles like this that make me appreciate [H] product reviews or in this case lack of product reviews.

Commodore should hire me as a PR rep, please pay me lots of money. I can make-up even more impressive information than their current guys. Did you know one C64 can replace 10 supercomputers and end hunger in third world countries while using 1 watt of electricity a year? Let me know if you want to review a unit, I'll send you one in 2050 when our other press contacts return them from their reviews. In the mean time I will need a half-million dollar deposit and a 1 way ticket to the Congo.:D
 
Oh snap! I hope this doesn't turn out into the Phantom v2, I remember hearing [H] lost A LOT of money with that whole ordeal (lawyer/legal fees and the sort). I plan to keep an eye on this, it is bound to get very interesting.
 
desultadox said:
To be honest, even though I'm a big [H]ardOCP fan, I found Kyle's emails to be unjustifiably curt or even downright rude. I kind of think it's unprofessional to even post this, especially if it came from email outside of the press release. By not including ALL the emails, it's even borderline unethical. None of this seems fair at all; not to Commodore and not to [H]ardOCP readers.

On the flipside, do I believe a thing Commodore's PR had to say about their computers? Not at all.
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Curt? Surely. I have found it better in this business to be direct and to the point. I am not out to make buddies, I just want the facts. There is no way I was RUDE. You might find the panties wadded comment out of line, but this is after he told me I was bitter, harping, and picking on him both in email and on a voice mail. This guy said a LOT of things that were simply way out of line. There is nothing to be gained by posting these things and I think it will take focus away from what is important here and that is Commodore is making claims they simply have no proof of. I think they are outright lying and given the facts presented, you can make up your own mind.
 
Ok, I have to admit I'm a fan of Commodore due to the wayback factor. I had a Vic 20 and a C-64 in the 80's.

So, I hope they give this guy a new job in a broom closet somewhere and take the measures to regain face. I'd like to see commodore succeed in a proper manner.

That said, good on you Kyle for call him on his pr bullshit. I hate corporate spin doctors.
 
This is what I expect from the [H]. While it would be great to have a computer perform like what C is bragging, if it could be done, we would have heard about it already.
 
Guess I am the only one that thinks this looks like a witch hunt. I just can't believe that Commodore is the only company to make bogus claims.
 
Kendrak said:
<grabs chair and popcorn>

I'm ready for a show :D
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mjpopcorn.gif
 
Bitchslapped to the highest degree.

But really, he could of atleast took the effort to make up a 3DMark number that helps his point....
 
DemonDiablo said:
To me it just looks like you're looking for a new small guy to pick on after the Phantom people. Let me ask you this, do you speak/type in that same candid tone to the bigger ups like Dell, Alienware, nVidia, etc. when they send you bs pr and you decide to challenge them on it?
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Agreed. I don't think we can go much further here with this one.
 
DemonDiablo said:
Personally I agree with desultadox, you were going way out of your way to pick a fight in a few of your responses. Nothing wrong about being frank, I'm all about being frank, but throwing out flamebait and then looking around trying to look innocent about it is a whole nother story.

To me it just looks like you're looking for a new small guy to pick on after the Phantom people. Let me ask you this, do you speak/type in that same candid tone to the bigger ups like Dell, Alienware, nVidia, etc. when they send you bs pr and you decide to challenge them on it?
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Would you please outline exactly the statements I made that you think are "going out of my way" to pick a fight. Please be specific so I can give your post a solid answer.

Yes, I pretty much one-line everyone I talk to via email. I still personally reply to almost all the email I get if an aswer is called for. So writing a feel-good book is generally out of the question.

Maybe I should have written, "Hi Dave. I am so happy you contacted me with the opportunity to regurgitate a press release that you sent to hundreds of others that will buy your bullshit and spew it forth on their websites as you want them to so you can get paid." Instead I just asked him how a PC company that does not even sell in North America can be a "leader." I really wanted to know how they quantify that statement. I never asked him to start spouting the obvious lies that he did. I never asked him to be rude and ask me if I was serious about my question. Most PR people would have jumped at the opportunity to discuss why their company is a leader. Dave took it as an insult. Still blows me away now.
 
Yeah, its kinda like going into a Mercedes dealer, and asking the salespeople why they think their cars are better than any other cars. They get standoffish, like we should just accept their truth, like we should have already known it.
 
I agree that the 30% claim is way out of line. Even with maximal tweaking of internal timings and heavy adjustments in the BIOS, I don't see how anyone could extract a performance margin like that from off-the-shelf components. Quite obviously, it was high quality PR BS.

On the other hand, I do have to wonder, as some already have, how many other companies [H] does not write articles about since it would seem that this kind of practice is probably much more widespread than this single case would lead many of us to believe. Surely, Commodore's PR people are not the first nor will they be the last to make somewhat outlandish claims.

With regard to the written exchange of words between Kyle and Dave, I have to admit that emails are not always the best place to omit words in sentences. Case in point, "Should not be a hard thing for a leading company in the PC space to produce" comes off as more sarcastic and terse than what it was [probably] meant to be. Conversely, the "picking" and "harping" in Dave's email did not bother me as much as his claim that HardOCP was obviously not qualified to review stock systems since they were so devoted to overclocking. That statement strikes me as wholly uninformed and stupid. Lastly, "panties out of a wad" >>> anything Dave said....ROFL

I'd say the article was "Recommended with Reservations" :p
 
I've always enjoyed reading Hardocp, and politically correct is not Kyle's way. Fine by me, since I find being politically correct only serves lawyer. However, this time you may have it wrong...
Have you tried contacting someone other than this "David" during this week of silence? Here's the reason I ask that:
I don't see anywhere, where he says "Beat another similarly equiped systems by 30%"

He claims they "beat major gaming systems by 30% in 3DMark tests" which is easily possible. Yes without overclocking. (Ultra vs GTX, quadcore vs dualcore, 10k rpm hdd vs 7.2k rpm hdd, you get the point)
You assumed that he meant similarly equiped/priced. What is it that they say about assumptions
?
Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, maybe he hasn't responded to you because he feels you are being needn'tly hostile to him? (but then that's just an assumption =P)
 
Hi,

I read the write up and found it well. Interesting to say the least. Personally, I wish there was a way to import some of the old c64 games without have to crack out the C64. Nah just crack out the old C64 and free the Monitor from dad's garage. After 20 plus years, still going. strong. I wonder if any of the media is still good. I think it was up in the attic. eeekks!!!


Seriously though. I think this guy sounds like he is smokin' some serious crack! 30% is awfully alot of gain from select components. I mean if there is only a 30% gain in performance, I would have to guess it was based on the original C64 vs the new XX. I think I have an AMD K-6 2 550 around here that might beat it. :D Seriously to get that performance it would probably have to have its own code written to only work with the said components. Therefore it would never have any real upgrading path. Sounds alot like the original C64s.

Load "*",8,1
shaggy
 
hl3395 said:
I've always enjoyed reading Hardocp, and politically correct is not Kyle's way. Fine by me, since I find being politically correct only serves lawyer. However, this time you may have it wrong...
Have you tried contacting someone other than this "David" during this week of silence? Here's the reason I ask that:
I don't see anywhere, where he says "Beat another similarly equiped systems by 30%"

He claims they "beat major gaming systems by 30% in 3DMark tests" which is easily possible. Yes without overclocking. (Ultra vs GTX, quadcore vs dualcore, 10k rpm hdd vs 7.2k rpm hdd, you get the point)
You assumed that he meant similarly equiped/priced. What is it that they say about assumptions
?
Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, maybe he hasn't responded to you because he feels you are being needn'tly hostile to him? (but then that's just an assumption =P)
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I would suggest that you are making a fair number of assumptions yourself. :)

All of this could have easily been cleared up by simply giving me the answer I requested up front, before there was any reason to be defensive. The fact is that he did not have the proof that was needed to back up his claims and still has not done so, a week after his own deadline. You think they could have at least made something up by now...but that would not be very smart either.
 
Kyle, you're right.

Kyle - 1
PR Company - 0

WINNAR!

Your prize is people telling you how right you are and those who disagree getting pwned.
 
Zinn said:
Kyle, you're right.

Kyle - 1
PR Company - 0

WINNAR!

Your prize is people telling you how right you are and those who disagree getting pwned.
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I agree. All the PR company was wanting was Kyle to put their propagnda out on the site without questions. All he asked for were spec and, test data. In which case ol Dave side stepped the issue. I would have been past curt myself.
 
Way to go Kyle, Dont ever let up, if you ask for facts from a PR guy and all he does is give you a line of shit about questioning the facts then you have every right to give him all the hell you can!
My guess is that PR rep is now looking for a new job as a politician!
 
Today is the first day back from his quoted vacation. He did say after his vacation but I guess Kyle took that very literally and posted this his very first day back from it.

Do let us know if he follows through with what he said he would do when he got back.
 
What a boat load of BS. Kyle's picking a fight where none should even exist. Hey Kyle, I've got a new system that kick's the ass out of everything out there. Scores 10 zillion 3dmark whatever...

You should no by now to see through all of this crap.

IF IT SOUNDS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE, CHANCES ARE IT IS!
 
What exactly makes them a leader?



Kyle R Bennett
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Really, were you being serious? Just need to know if want a real answer on this one…



-Dave
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that was the end of the conversation, really. the rest was just entertainment for us, and i do appreciate it.

:D
 
Kyle seemed perfectly polite. Dave shoveled some obvious BS into Kyle's inbox, and (in essence) said hey, how about spewing some of this onto your site? All Kyle did was ask Dave to prove it ain't BS.

Any PR man worth a crap (and representing a product worth a crap) would be happy to get any reply to the doubtless hundreds of emails sent out to try and stir up press, and have gladly responded with, at least, a canned statement of how they came up with the claims.

The fact that Dave made such ridiculous claims without having a response prepared for Kyle's question, shows that Dave doesn't know this market, and shouldn't be hired as a PR guy by any company.

"Are you serious?" what PR guy worth a crap would respond with that? To me, it looked like that's where Kyle started loosing patients with Dave, and rightly so, because now Dave is just wasting Kyles time, after asking Kyle to do Dave's job for him.

I bet Kyle does get a lot of similar crap in his inbox, I bet he asks the same question (got any proof?) a lot too. I also bet he doesn't get "Are you serious?" a lot though.

I'm a long time fan of H, it's fun to see behind the scenes.
 
You don't have to be politically correct to act like an adult. I love the no bs, no p.c attitude of this site, but that was just like watching two kids bickering.

Like the other guy said, congrats you win. Here's your cookie, but you still made a retard out of yourself. And so did he.
 
Kyle,

Since I haven't heard the voice mail I can't judge what the guy's tone was, but as I was reading when I got to the second page and saw your response to his email/call I thought I had missed something as Dave didn't come across as exactly vicious or mean spirited.

He said you sounded bitter, which your email asking for specs did seem a bit terse with a back handed insult about how any real company could produce the information you were looking for.

Honestly, and I might be the more laid back type, I would have called back and spoken directly. So many things get misunderstood in text only. You could have either A) Accepted the offer for the test unit and then written a scathing review when it failed to meet the PR release specs or B) Simply said you do not have the time but that you would still be interested in any engineering specs they send over.

But you instead posted this article where Dave comes off as a non-geek PR guy and you read like an angry editor taking some unknown frustration. To me you debased and tarnished the HardOCP brand for me a bit by posting this article.
 
If you did not know Kyle can be abrasive then now you do but more importantly you know to watch out for the commodore systems when they come out with outrageous performance claims.
Did anyone read the bit tech article to see the PC?
If that is their system then it is a top end and with no OC it will not in any way, shape form or fashion pull 30% in any 3dmark06 score over any top end system OC'd or not.

I like the fact that no bull shit gets posted or reviewed on [H].
 
I agree with Alienz... you tarnished the image of the site. You could have been the bigger man but you werent.
 
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