4K 60Hz 4:4:4 HDMI 2.0 TV Database

NCX said:
Crossover 44k VA with 4:4:4 and no LED PWM Dimming/is Flicker Free unlike the Seiki and Samsung TVs.

Wasabi Mango UHD420 IPS with 4:4:4 and no LED PWM Dimming/is Flicker Free unlike the Seiki and Samsung TVs.

Crossovers always have proper brightness controls and I'm pretty sure Wasabi Mangos also do, but I have to search Korean online shops (Prod Danawa) to find this information. The Crossover uses the same panel as the Philips so it might stretch content. I'll ask the OCN member DividebyZero who bought a Crossover to test for PWM and confirm 4:4:4.
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Thanks for posting the info on these. Please keep us posted on what you find out. I have been trying to confirm independent tests if the Crossover has proper brightness controls and is PWM free. Same with the Wasabi Mango - the AH-IPS option looks interesting I just have to wonder how much glow there will be on a 40" panel.....
 
alaskajoel said:
That is last years model you linked to. Only 1080p.

Best buy added the M43-c1 (40" 4k) to their webpage today. I called and asked about availability--should be in stores by next week (at least for the 40" I'm looking at)

According to Vizio's website and the user manual, one HDMI input supports 4k @ 60hz... Hopefully @ 4:4:4. They specifically say this HDMI input is for devices such as high-end PCs, so I really hope so.
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The M43-C1 is a 43" like the model indicates.

From what we know so far, the new M series is the same as last year's P series, but with less dimming zones. If the HDMI setup isn't different, then that means 4K 60Hz 4:2:0, but you can do 1080P 120Hz.
 
x3sphere said:
You don't want any of that motion smoothing stuff enabled with games anyway, it introduces loads of artifacts.
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artifacts was a big problem when they first introduced motion intorplation with modern tv's, nowadays with premium sets it is not as severe but it also adds pretty good input lag so yeah if you are hardcore gamer you dont want any motion plus.
Since someone called me funny , another funny fact; when samsung first introduced their 120hz lcd tv's , motion plus was called "100hz motion plus" in tv menu's.
When you dont enable that in your tv's what you get is a 300 lines motion resolution vs 1080+ when enabled in heavy movment pictures (like sports and sports games when camera pans) and the motion fluidity is nothing diffrent than a 100$ crap tv.

pay grand dollars for a premium tv and disable its most important future because it sucks?

Let me say it again, when you enable 4:4:4 on your samsung tv's , what you get is a blurry picture in motion and dulll colors with none of the picture enhancements working . (which why we pay premium).

If you dont like motion enhancements just buy the cheapest tv you can .

well thats just me again, majority prefers ips over plasma (rip) majority prefers half ass passive 3d over active full 3d.
i am the minority so good luck with 300 line resolution in your 4k+ screens:)
 
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railroadtycoon said:
Let me say it again, when you enable 4:4:4 on your samsung tv's , what you get is a blurry picture in motion and dulll colors with none of the picture enhancements working . (which why we pay premium).
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Most of the picture enhancements decrease the colour accuracy and cause bleaching (dynamic contrast) or black crush, but you are right about the blur. 60hz 4k LCD's without motion compensation and/or A/F/G-Sync are a gimmick for viewing non-static content since the extra sharpness+clarity 4k can provide is lost to motion blur, screen tearing and PWM blur (the Philips, Samsung and Seiki [H] members are raving about use low frequency PWM).

railroadtycoon said:
If you don't like motion enhancements just buy the cheapest tv you can .
Click to expand...

Aside from a select few 32" (Series 5 Samsungs and Series 7 Sony), most of the cheap TVs don't support 4:4:4 and have high input lag.
 
Paralysis from analysis. People forget to just buy what makes you happy, not check every box on the spec sheet.
Whatever you buy has a shortcoming; Whatever you buy today something will be better tomorrow. It just stuff that will be replaced when necessary.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Paralysis from analysis. People forget to just buy what makes you happy, not check every box on the spec sheet.
Whatever you buy has a shortcoming; Whatever you buy today something will be better tomorrow. It just stuff that will be replaced when necessary.
Click to expand...

Exactly. There is no perfect display out there, you just have to decide which drawbacks you are willing to live with in exchange for the advantages. And of course those drawbacks will obviously vary from person to person.
 
NCX said:
Most of the picture enhancements decrease the colour accuracy and cause bleaching (dynamic contrast) or black crush, but you are right about the blur. 60hz 4k LCD's without motion compensation and/or A/F/G-Sync are a gimmick for viewing non-static content since the extra sharpness+clarity 4k can provide is lost to motion blur, screen tearing and PWM blur (the Philips, Samsung and Seiki [H] members are raving about use low frequency PWM).



Aside from a select few 32" (Series 5 Samsungs and Series 7 Sony), most of the cheap TVs don't support 4:4:4 and have high input lag.
Click to expand...

well we partly agree (good to know someone agree with me :) )
what we don't agree is when i enable game mode or name hdmi port to pc/dvi via tv menu the picture is much worse and noone can make me belive othervise.

what displays i have in my house
samsung
40a750
32h6030
46f6300
55es800
42pn450 plasma
46d6000
50hu6900

panasonic 42ut5050 plasma
sony 40e4000
toshiba 46sv685
panasonic 60zt60 plasma
philips 284e mva monitor
dell s2440l amva monitor



6 of them which i use actively . and i ve one of the the first 120-100hz lcd with motion intorplation (check ss). intergrated tv.



as a movie addict who tends to use my tv's at pitch black room, black performance is the most important part of a display for me. That's the reason i never ever will ever use a tn or ips panel display. Anyway you can always disable any dynamic contrast or micro dimming in samsung tv's via cinema colour option which gives you a lifelike color even in the cheapest s-pva or psa display (s-pva is superior to psa in every situation btw)
black crush hmm, easiest way to test if you have a black crush is go to lagoom lcd test , check if all the black boxes are visible in black test. It is impossible to get a black crush with all picture enhancements on, dynamic contrast off, dimming off, black levels offf and motion plus on in any of my tv's except one of my samsung plasma 42p450.

I am no hardcore gamer so i understand why hardcore gamers disable motion enhancements aka motion intorplation on their tv's and i understand why they use TN panels for their gaming setups but you guys should know that you can't get real 120hz
refresh rate in any premium tv's... hz is all about motion intorplotion gimmick in modern tv's and i can assure you that.

I do game..... what do i play? nba 2k series and fifa series. If i dont enable motion intorplation the camera panning is a blurry mess i mean it is impossible for me to accept that picture when playing fifa! I really don't understand how people can play fifa when the camera pans horizontaly the picture is like a blur heaven. thank god for motion intorolation it changed everyting.

Anyway i guess you understand what i m trying to expain, i am no english expert so ....

plasma ftw, ips burn in hell

here is one of the first commercial samsung lcd tv whicch i own:) 120hz lcd before the dark times before they manipulated consumers. hz is all about motion intorplotion.It clearly states 100hz is motion intorplation.

Tn4TmwU.jpg
 
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MistaSparkul said:
WorldExclusive said:
Paralysis from analysis. People forget to just buy what makes you happy, not check every box on the spec sheet.
Whatever you buy has a shortcoming; Whatever you buy today something will be better tomorrow. It just stuff that will be replaced when necessary.
Click to expand...
Exactly. There is no perfect display out there, you just have to decide which drawbacks you are willing to live with in exchange for the advantages. And of course those drawbacks will obviously vary from person to person.
Click to expand...

What has that got to do with trying to find the best information?
If you are bored of it, this probably isnt the best thread for you.
 
Nenu said:
What has that got to do with trying to find the best information?
If you are bored of it, this probably isnt the best thread for you.
Click to expand...

I don't get what you're trying to say. Bored of what? Finding the best information? I never said anything about that. I just mentioned that there's no perfect display so I don't know how you came to that conclusion.
 
You said "Exactly." to the post above.
When people find it necessary to be sure of what they are about to spend a lot of money on, it shouldn't be put down.
Especially when its difficult to establish the truth.
 
Because he has a point. Anyways I have nothing against trying to find more information before making a purchase and I'm certainly not bored of anything, which is why I've been checking this and the Samsung thread for updates.
 
railroadtycoon said:
artifacts was a big problem when they first introduced motion intorplation with modern tv's, nowadays with premium sets it is not as severe but it also adds pretty good input lag so yeah if you are hardcore gamer you dont want any motion plus.
Since someone called me funny , another funny fact; when samsung first introduced their 120hz lcd tv's , motion plus was called "100hz motion plus" in tv menu's.
When you dont enable that in your tv's what you get is a 300 lines motion resolution vs 1080+ when enabled in heavy movment pictures (like sports and sports games when camera pans) and the motion fluidity is nothing diffrent than a 100$ crap tv.

pay grand dollars for a premium tv and disable its most important future because it sucks?

Let me say it again, when you enable 4:4:4 on your samsung tv's , what you get is a blurry picture in motion and dulll colors with none of the picture enhancements working . (which why we pay premium).

If you dont like motion enhancements just buy the cheapest tv you can .

well thats just me again, majority prefers ips over plasma (rip) majority prefers half ass passive 3d over active full 3d.
i am the minority so good luck with 300 line resolution in your 4k+ screens:)
Click to expand...

I would agree with you on the poor motion of these 4K TVs, and I also agree that turning on PC mode harms the IQ. I'm not a professional gamer either but some of these sets have 100ms+ input lag when not in Game/PC mode and that is way too much for any game that requires fast reflexes.

Turning on the motion interpolation isn't worth it for me, the artifacts are too much of a drawback (at least for gaming, can look fine for video content). I've tried it on some recent sets and it's still something I would disable for gaming.

Anyway, I don't even have a 4K set atm, I don't think any of them are worth buying. My main TV is the LG 1080p OLED. Since they still use sample and hold however the motion isn't as good as some Plasmas but the contrast/colors look amazing. I'm hoping once I get ready to upgrade again, 4K OLEDs with BFI are available, that will be worth splurging on.
 
railroadtycoon said:
artifacts was a big problem when they first introduced motion intorplation with modern tv's, nowadays with premium sets it is not as severe but it also adds pretty good input lag so yeah if you are hardcore gamer you dont want any motion plus.
Since someone called me funny , another funny fact; when samsung first introduced their 120hz lcd tv's , motion plus was called "100hz motion plus" in tv menu's.
When you dont enable that in your tv's what you get is a 300 lines motion resolution vs 1080+ when enabled in heavy movment pictures (like sports and sports games when camera pans) and the motion fluidity is nothing diffrent than a 100$ crap tv.

pay grand dollars for a premium tv and disable its most important future because it sucks?

Let me say it again, when you enable 4:4:4 on your samsung tv's , what you get is a blurry picture in motion and dulll colors with none of the picture enhancements working . (which why we pay premium).

If you dont like motion enhancements just buy the cheapest tv you can .

well thats just me again, majority prefers ips over plasma (rip) majority prefers half ass passive 3d over active full 3d.
i am the minority so good luck with 300 line resolution in your 4k+ screens:)
Click to expand...

Motion interpolation causes Soap Opera Effect, which most people (myself included) cant stand to watch. Enabling it doesn't magically make it 120Hz. Very few TVs have true 120Hz capability.

Instead of motion interpolation, getting a TV with motion backlight control is better. It doesn't increase the input lag much, if at all, and can be used with any settings on most TVs. What it does is flash the backlight 120, or 240 times per second, to reduce ghosting/trailing. This dims the image on some TVs like Sony and Vizio, and causes flickering on Sony, but not the Vizio. The Vizio P series is true 120Hz at 1080P with 17ms of input lag even with the motion backlight control turn on. It doesn't do 4:4:4 at 4k/60Hz though. For just gaming that wouldn't matter though.


Also, Samsung has great motion on newer sets, and displays full motion resolution without the need of motion interpolation. Other brands have 300-500 lines.
http://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-un60h6350/2/
Engaging LED Clear Motion setting under the AMP menu reduces light output by about 30 percent, but that's not a big deal since this TV (like most LED LCDs) has plenty of light output anyway. In both the On and Off positions, the TV was able to achieve the full 1,200 lines of resolution -- a superb score for a 120Hz television. On looked very slightly cleaner in our test pattern, however, so sticklers may want to leave it there (and, if you're using our picture settings for this TV, bump up the Backlight control from 11 to 14). Note that engaging the setting on the H6400 introduced some flicker, but on the H6350 it did not.
Click to expand...
 
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Nenu said:
What has that got to do with trying to find the best information?
If you are bored of it, this probably isnt the best thread for you.
Click to expand...

Probably not. I left a few after the know-it-alls invaded them.
These threads end nowhere soon after.

It's far from trying to find the best information here.
Now we have members telling other members they made a poor buying decision.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Now we have members telling other members they made a poor buying decision.
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welcome to the internet, where people tell you what they really think, especially if it is the truth.:(

i would rather hear a painful truth than a comfortable lie, but that is just me:(

BTW, who is brave enough to buy a 4k dispaly named "Wasabi Mango":confused:
 
Interpolation is horrible for gaming in most instances, but with slower-paced console games it's a great way to "fake" 60+fps in games that are only 30fps. Games like the Last of Us, Fallout, and the like.
I even use it with PC games that are notoriously choppy like GTA4 and the Evil Within. If you're using a mouse...forget it, but with a controller it's far less noticeable if at all.
 
I got reply from Panasonic regarding 4:4:4 on their new TVs, they said they "should" support it for a better experience on PCs, but they did not say if at 60 or 30 Hz. They also said that the TVs will be in stores in Maj-June, so we shall find out more then.
 
geok1ng said:
welcome to the internet, where people tell you what they really think, especially if it is the truth.:(

i would rather hear a painful truth than a comfortable lie, but that is just me:(

BTW, who is brave enough to buy a 4k dispaly named "Wasabi Mango":confused:
Click to expand...

I could say the same thing about "Yamakasi Catleap" but most of those worked out pretty well!:D
 
Couple of questions about the LG 49UF675 ... I notice it lists 4096x2160p as a resolution while the LG website only lists 3840 x 2160 in the specs - why the difference? Also does this use PWM backlighting, if so how does it compare to Samsung who I've heard use low frequency PWM?
 
PLanPLan said:
Couple of questions about the LG 49UF675 ... I notice it lists 4096x2160p as a resolution while the LG website only lists 3840 x 2160 in the specs - why the difference? Also does this use PWM backlighting, if so how does it compare to Samsung who I've heard use low frequency PWM?
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I think they wrote that in the spec page because that's the default or recommended resolution and because people that are not so tech savvy might get confused and think that the TV can do 4096x2160 but not 3840x2160. Advanced users will read the manual and see that it can do "true" 4K. So what it says in the manual should be the correct info.

I am not sure about PWM, I also would like to know. I will try to find information about PWM on last year models, and we can expect that this year it should be the same.

I think I will buy either 49UF675 or 49UF7700/49UF770, if they will not use PWM, or at least use high freq. They have similar price but the 49UF77** has a IPS panel and has no 3D. I like VA because of the blacks and because there is no glow like on IPS, but when I used the Samsung tv and the Philips monitor, the display looked "washed out" compared to IPS monitors I used. I am not sure whether it was because of the screen size or because they were VA, but anyway, I am thinking to maybe get IPS this time, even thought I am afraid that there might be much IPS glow on such large screen. Will have to think about this more :)
 
Domingo said:
You don't need special HDMI cables, but you do need newer ones that are typically called "High Speed" HDMI cables. Pretty much any newer HDMI cable will be, but if you're rockin' old cables from the mid 2000's, you'll need newer ones. Luckily they aren't very expensive anymore. I bought a 9 foot one from Microcenter for $14 and I know Amazon has 'em even cheaper.

.
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is there such a thing as HDMI 2.0 certified cable? As the cable I got is certified at 1.4
 
Hi I'm having issues with my Samsung 4K TV.

I got it to display 60Hz with UHD color and 4:4:4 once for some reason the display kept going off and on every few seconds, pretty much flickers so much it is not really usable.

I knew it was 4:4:4 because I tested one of the 4:4:4 tests (the quick brown fox jumped) and the blue and red line were very clearly legible. I have a picture I will attach. I also knew it was 60Hz because I verified through the system settings and the mouse also did not feel jittery.

I was only expecting to get 60Hz working on this but was surprised 4:4:4 was working as a lot of forums cited that Samsung outright lied about 4:4:4 support on this panel anyway. I guess part of the new firmware update they recently pushed out?

However I would like to ask for some help on this as I can't recreate it, I attempted to switch HDMI cables to try to resolve the flickering under 4K 60p issue and now I can't get 60Hz 4K anymore no matter what I do, I have the input name set to PC and the HDMI UHD color set to On for HDMI 2/DVI input.

I had really low hopes for this TV to be a viable PC monitor but it actually looks very nice when I got it working. Nicer colors than my actual 4K monitor (Dell UP2414q). The only negative I have about this TV at this point is the way it handles true blacks, it shuts the panel off completely and it is quite noticeable, it's transition since it is an edge lit display.

The model of my Samsung TV is the UN65H7250.
 
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Seinfeld said:
I think they wrote that in the spec page because that's the default or recommended resolution and because people that are not so tech savvy might get confused and think that the TV can do 4096x2160 but not 3840x2160. Advanced users will read the manual and see that it can do "true" 4K. So what it says in the manual should be the correct info.

I am not sure about PWM, I also would like to know. I will try to find information about PWM on last year models, and we can expect that this year it should be the same.

I think I will buy either 49UF675 or 49UF7700/49UF770, if they will not use PWM, or at least use high freq. They have similar price but the 49UF77** has a IPS panel and has no 3D. I like VA because of the blacks and because there is no glow like on IPS, but when I used the Samsung tv and the Philips monitor, the display looked "washed out" compared to IPS monitors I used. I am not sure whether it was because of the screen size or because they were VA, but anyway, I am thinking to maybe get IPS this time, even thought I am afraid that there might be much IPS glow on such large screen. Will have to think about this more :)
Click to expand...

Actually mine lists that too, the 4096x2160p resolution however I believe is only for projectors or 1:9:1 aspect ratio displays.

3840x2160p is still recommended and the only native resolution for our commercial 4K UHD displays. It's the 16:9 version of 4K pretty much.
 
Which 4k tv would you recommend ?
40 or 42 inches, 4:4:4 and 60Hz
Thank you
 
greyx said:
Which 4k tv would you recommend ?
40 or 42 inches, 4:4:4 and 60Hz
Thank you
Click to expand...

I'm also interested in TV recommendations, also is there any good reason to select a TV as a 4K PC display over something like the Philips 4K monitor(BDM4065UC)?
 
What do you mean " it's good " ?
4:4:4 chroma is working ?
One more question : Samsung tv's are using IPS display ?
Some people say IPS has better colors than VA panels, but it's a question of taste, i'd say :)
 
I mean it's good to be used a PC monitor if you are not sensitive to PWM.
Yes it does support 4:4:4 and it's VA panel.
 
Thanks a million, Seinfeld
I wish i could find a link ( reviews , owners, videos ) about that
Please tell me : if 4:4:4 is used, are the color washed out a bit ?
 
I chatted with LG support today and was told that UF77* supports deep color (4:4:4) but they could not tell me about PWM since they only know what's in the spec. They said they would forward my question about PWM to a LG engineer, so hopefully I will receive a mail with the answer.

I will either get LG 43" or 49" UF77* or a Panasonic.
 
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