4K 60Hz 4:4:4 HDMI 2.0 TV Database

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Cecil, Oct 13, 2014.

  1. Cecil

    Cecil [H]ardness Supreme

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    Starting a thread for verified 4K TVs that can do 4:4:4 at 60Hz over HDMI 2.0.


    HDMI 2.0 is capable of 4:4:4 60Hz 4K at 8bit color. 10bit or higher it cant do 4:4:4, but for the most part that's not an issue. The main issue with most HDMI 2.0 TVs at the moment is HDCP 2.2 uses up too much bandwidth to do 4:4:4. So we need HDMI 2.0 but not HDCP 2.2.


    The only TVs I've been able to find that do this so far are LG 2014 4K models, when using HDMI port 3. However they are passive 3D sets, and many say they can see horizontal lines even in 2D. I've seen a couple people say it works on Panasonic, but haven't been able to verify it fully.


    Samsung uses HDMI 2.0 and does not use HDCP 2.2, and should work. But they appear to have a software bug that stops PC mode from working when running 24Hz or 60Hz. Turning on UHD Color doesn't help (but does at 30Hz).



    If you have a GTX 970/980 (only HDMI 2.0 cards right now), and you have or found a TV that does 4K 60Hz 4:4:4, please post here so I can update the list. If you notice any issues or negatives (edge lit bleeding, clouding, color issues, poor picture quality, etc..) about the TV please post them as well. Also, when checking for 4:4:4 please make sure you have scaling at 100%. Testing at a large text size does not give true results.



    Use this link to test. If the red/blue words are as easy to read as the rest, then its 4:4:4.
    http://cdn.avsforum.com/b/b4/b4a44044_vbattach208609.png



    Known 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 TVs

    LG UB8500 and higher, available in sizes 49" and larger. Some owners see horizontal lines from the passive 3D, even in 2D.


    Panasonic WT600 and higher, 58", 65" and 85" only. Expensive and heavy TV if that matters to you.


    Sharp 2105 4K confirmed 4:4:4 60Hz on HDMI 3.
    http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...-4k-owner-s-thread-lc-70ud27u-lc-60ud27u.html


    Samsung 2015 4K sets (at least mid-high end range) when labeled as PC with UHD Color on.
    http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65js9000-201503154027.htm

    Possible sets,

    Samsung HU6900 and higher, 40" and larger. Waiting to see if they issue a firmware update.


    LG UB8000/UB8200, thinking of ordering one my self to test. Available 40"-55". (Edit: Reading manual shows no HDMI port labeled 10-Bit, and specifically states 4:2:0.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
  2. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    THANK YOU! I'm ready to move over to 4k but I need 60hz at 4k for my PC. And I want at least a 39" - 40" maybe 42" display.

    I will be paying very close attention to this tread and will update here when I can
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  3. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not having HDCP 2.2 for future 4K TV source material will be a problem, but won't matter as a PC display.

    It's amazing after all these years, even with "new" HDMI 2.0 and Displayport 1.3, both are a let down on bandwidth.
     
  4. Church

    Church Limp Gawd

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    For "TV" material main problem will be downstream data transfer speeds available at your average households. I estimate average ones being insufficient for long time, and way lower then criticised HDMI 2.0 & DP 1.3, thus most cable companies will use much heavier compression, 4:2:0 chroma subsampling and alike, leaving more then enough bandwith for HDCP 2.2, no?
     
  5. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Completely different things. HDMI and DP deal with the source device such as a blu-ray player or a 4K storage hard drive to the display. Internet download speed deals with getting the content to the source device like the 4K hard drive. IMO most 4k movies will be downloaded before hand, not streamed. Internet in the US is just too slow.
     
  6. Fleat

    Fleat Gawd

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    Although I went with the LG 55" OLED instead, I am still curious to see if the Vizio P series will ever be able to do 4:4:4 at 4K. Several people on avsforum seem fairly confident that the chip used for HDCP 2.2 will never allow that (even through firmware update). If they can get that working and tighten up the local dimming, it could be excellent.
     
  7. Cecil

    Cecil [H]ardness Supreme

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    From what Ive seen, Vizio P owners get nothing but a black screen trying to do just 4:2:0 at 4K 60Hz.


    I know the Samsungs aren't doing 4:4:4 yet, but I picked up the 40HU6950 just to try out. Want to see how it is as a TV overall, and see what the difference in gaming is at 4:2:0 vs 4:4:4. Plus having a single 970, Im thinking 30Hz locked will probably be ok for the games I want to see anyway, which does do 4:4:4.
     
  8. Pastuch

    Pastuch Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for starting this thread Cecil. Personally I don't think any game is "suitable" for 30 hz but to each their own.
     
  9. Tych-0

    Tych-0 Gawd

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    This is just a whole bunch of disappointment, I was hoping to go 4k this year, but it looks like the format isn't mature enough yet.
     
  10. Cecil

    Cecil [H]ardness Supreme

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    For the most part I agree, but if Im only getting 30-40FPS in a game at 4K anyway, might was well just lock it for full color. Assuming there is a noticeable difference in 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 in games.
    Thank you, but before I add it to the list, can you verify text scaling was at 100%? Also, any additional comments about the TV? Backlight bleed, uniformity, overall picture quality, etc...
     
  11. dmonkey

    dmonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    How's that working for you Fleat? Can you give us some numbers on input lag and motion clarity? Blurbusters.com if you haven't checked that out. I'm particularly interested in the moving map test (moving photo).
     
  12. Martha Stewart

    Martha Stewart Gawd

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    its here, I am using a Dell 32" 4k and love it :p


    But as far as TV's are concerned I will be waiting till CES 2015 in 3 months when all the new TV's are announced. Everything now is just too new for proper 4k PC usage.

    Hoping someone makes a proper curved 4k 4:4:4 HMDI 2.0/DP1.3 set next year.
     
  13. Cecil

    Cecil [H]ardness Supreme

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    I personally foresee most TV makers being more interested in making sure they have HDCP 2.2, which would mean no 4:4:4 at 60Hz 4K.
     
  14. ChronoDetector

    ChronoDetector 2[H]4U

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    I currently own the LG 55UB850T and it does 4:4:4 at 60HZ/2160p when you connect it to HDMI 3 via a GTX 970/980.
     
  15. Cecil

    Cecil [H]ardness Supreme

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    I believe that is the UK version of the one in the list, no?
     
  16. Fleat

    Fleat Gawd

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    The input lag has been tested at anywhere from 30ms to 55ms with the Leo-Bodnar lag tester which isn't great. It is tolerable for me personally (even coming from 120hz strobed), but many may find it noticeable. I will let you know how the tests on blurbusters look when I get home from work tonight.

    I am mostly using it for console gaming in my office, and PC games when I want to kick back in a recliner. I have played Destiny (PS4) for around 30 hours on it, and it seems to perform great for me. Motion clarity seems good, but it looks different than any plasma or lcd before it in motion. It is kind of hard to explain unless you see it. The input must be labeled PC and set to game mode for motion to be usable for gaming.

    OLED is still in its infancy, and probably isn't ideal for a PC monitor replacement due to image retention. I have not personally noticed any, but people have noticed it on demo TV's in stores. With that said, this is the best looking display I have ever had the chance to see. After using what is right around the corner for display tech, I can't really imagine spending any money on a new PC display until OLED becomes mainstream for computer monitors.

    With all of that said, I have my eyes on the LG 65EC9700 if I can justify the pricetag. It should hit stores at around $6k, and hopefully see some price reduction to around $4k within a year. It should do 4k@60hz 4:4:4 since it uses the same chipsets as the other LG 4K TV's. I will just make sure I have a really aggressively timed screensaver.

    OLED + 4K 60hz 4:4:4 = :cool:
     
  17. jtw473

    jtw473 n00b

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    Here you go 100% scaling
    http://abload.de/img/dsc00997msuuc.jpg

    The display supports displayport 1.2 and I have been using it as a PC monitor for a year now and have messed with nvida s' 4:2:0 60hz hack so I know exactly what 4k 4:4:4 looks like and what to look for. As for the displays quality, it is a VA panel so it has excellent contrast for an LCD, its input lag at 4k has been measured in the mid 30s. I dont have any issues with back-light bleed but due to the VA panel there is a gamma shift towards the sides of the screen, especially since I sit 5ft away. Panasonic also has excellent scaling options with perfect 4x4 pixel 1080p scaling, it even supports 2560x1440 and upscales it to 4k which looks better than 1080p. Overall I've been very pleased with this display, I also own 3x rog swifts in surround gsync and still prefer to game on this display.
     
  18. Fleat

    Fleat Gawd

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    That is basically how I feel about my setup. I would much prefer to play on my OLED tv or projector set up over my Nvidia Surround setup. It looks like Panasonic nailed it on the 4k front! Do you notice any visual differences between DisplayPort and HDMI 2.0? One would think it should be identical, but sometimes TV manufacturers do funky things with different inputs (smoothing, motion, etc).
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  19. dmonkey

    dmonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    So the input lag isn't bad. I'm eager to hear your impressions of the blurbusters tests. To be sure, this is the 55EC9300 you're talking about, right?

    I can't wait to see the 65" 4K set in action, too.
     
  20. jtw473

    jtw473 n00b

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    I agree there is defiantly some PC enthusiasts in their engineering department, visually dp and hdmi 2.0 are identical, bit I can say hdmi 2.0 is much more flexible due to being sst.
     
  21. Fleat

    Fleat Gawd

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    LG 55EA9800 (last years). I actually had my hands on the 9300 and I couldn't justify the additional cost after comparing them both. The 9300 is supposed to have slightly lower input lag, but I couldn't notice a difference.

    The input lag is in line with many of the other manufacturers game modes. Some TV's like the Vizio P series are faster and offer the strobed backlight though (Clear Action).

    The 65" 4K should be hitting the street very soon. If I can find it within my price point ($4,000 - $4,500), I will pick it up.
     
  22. B_Rich

    B_Rich n00b

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    The soul reason for me joining this forum was to reply to this thread.

    I currently have 2 780's and the LG UB8500 4K TV, and experience the limitations of HDMI 1.4 as mentioned in the original post.

    I have 2 980's on the way and should be here tomorrow and I'll post a confirmation to the original post with the LG. I was so relieved to find out that the TV I bought on sale just so happened to be one of the few that supports 4:4:4 color.

    Thanks again.
     
  23. Pastuch

    Pastuch Limp Gawd

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    Thanks very much for joining! Please continue to update on your progress with the 980s. Dragonage Inquisitions natively supports 4k resolution!
     
  24. Cecil

    Cecil [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thanks, and if you can let us know other thoughts on the set (edge bleed, horizontal lines, contrast, etc.).
     
  25. ChronoDetector

    ChronoDetector 2[H]4U

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    Make sure you plug your HDMI cable into HDMI 3 to get 4:4:4 colour, because other ports will only do 4:2:0.
     
  26. B_Rich

    B_Rich n00b

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    Yes, I've read this as well.

    The only reason I'm buying the 980's is for the HDMI 2.0. I'll be hooking my PC up to my TV for 90% use on my racing simulator. This is seriously a make or break situation for me. If the HDMI 2.0 doesn't work for me as expected on my LG 4K TV, then I'll be returning the 980's (thank you Newegg Premier).

    Anyway guys, I know I'm new here, but I'm excited to report back my findings tomorrow once I get everything installed.
     
  27. B_Rich

    B_Rich n00b

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    Also, just a note to anyone/everyone, a Displayport ---> HDMI 2.0 adapter (or just an "HDMI" adapter) does not support full color to the TV with the 780's. It's identical to hooking it up via HDMI 1.4.
     
  28. Church

    Church Limp Gawd

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    Where have you seen adapter of DP>HDMI 2.0? All that i know of are >HDMI 1.4, thus no wonder that they are limited to .. hdmi 1.4 :).
     
  29. B_Rich

    B_Rich n00b

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  30. Church

    Church Limp Gawd

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    4K compatible most probably means 4K@30Hz as per HDMI 1.4 specs. It doesn't mean that must be HDMI 2.0 (and i'm 99% sure that it isn't, as otherwise news about release of such should get widespread very quickly), so it works at it's specs and cannot be blamed for not doing more then what HDMI 1.4 can when it IS DP>HDMI 1.4.
     
  31. B_Rich

    B_Rich n00b

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    Yes, you're right, it's only HDMI 1.4. They didn't specifically say in the description, so I thought I'd give it a try for $13.

    Not blaming the adapter at all.
     
  32. B_Rich

    B_Rich n00b

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    So let me post back my findings so far.

    I've got the cards in, drivers updated to 344.16 (latest). PC is plugged in to HDMI 3 (10 bit), and I even renamed it to PC (I've heard from some people this can fix issues).

    I will have the PC up and running, and then I will go and turn on UHD Deep Color on my TV settings. The TV will restart and come up with no signal. This will happen whether I have SLI enabled or disabled, it doesn't matter.

    As I was typing this, on my TV, the TV would flash black twice during the 2 minute or so time that I typed this out.

    Any thoughts/recommendations? Something I'm overlooking?
     
  33. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    I dont think HDMI 2 has the bandwidth to support 4K deep color at 60Hz.
    It only just has the bandwidth for 8bit colour at 60Hz, deep color is 10bit, 12bit and 16bit.

    For films it will work because they are 30Hz or less, but PC use is higher refresh.

    If its flickering without deep color enabled, it might be a problem with your HDMI lead as well.
    Are you using an HDMI 2.0 lead?
     
  34. B_Rich

    B_Rich n00b

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    I was under the impression that HDMI 2.0 could support 4K @ 60hz at full color (which is what UHD Deep Color enbales, if I'm not mistaken).

    Yes, I'm using an HDMI 2.0 cable.
     
  35. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    Full color is 8bits per color = 24bit color.
    Deep Color is higher bits per color.
     
  36. MistaSparkul

    MistaSparkul Gawd

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    I could be wrong but I heard that you need to have the device, in this case your PC, UNPLUGGED first while you turn UHD color on. You can't have something plugged into HDMI 3 while you are switching UHD color on or it gets screwy. Give it a shot.
     
  37. Pastuch

    Pastuch Limp Gawd

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    I'm disappointed with HDMI 2.0 so far. The fact that Displayport 1.2a can do more than HDMI 2.0 is a joke. I wish the TV manufacturers would all include DP 1.2 on every tv, it would cost pennies!
     
  38. Church

    Church Limp Gawd

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    I cannot recall which other 4K TV vendor includes DisplayPort except Panasonic.
     
  39. B_Rich

    B_Rich n00b

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    Oh ok, good to know. I'll have to give this a try tomorrow.

    Thanks for the help everyone.