Waiting for Haswell?

JimmiG said:
Same here.

-Skipped SB because my Phenom II felt fast enough at the time. The plan was to upgrade when IB came out.

-Skipped IB because it wasn't any faster than SB and overclocked worse

-Finally going to upgrade when Haswell comes out.

The difference between IB and Haswell is small, but the cumulative improvement when you skip several generations adds up. I guess that's the idea with Intel's tick-tock scheme... +10% with SB over Nehalem, +10% with IB, + another 10% with Haswell.

In the past, we had clock speed bumps, then more cores and IPC improvements. I think that era is over. Clock speeds have stagnated at 3.5 - 4 GHz. Core count has stagnated at 4-6 "real" cores. IPC improvements are limited to ~10%. This has been pretty obvious since around 2005 or so.
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Keep in mind you'll be jumping up in supported instructions as well, I dare say we're going to see support for anything pre-Sandy dropped from support for games in the next year or two since anything bellow doesn't support stuff like AVX.
 
Kor said:
Keep in mind you'll be jumping up in supported instructions as well, I dare say we're going to see support for anything pre-Sandy dropped from support for games in the next year or two since anything bellow doesn't support stuff like AVX.
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No chance of this, after all how would game publishers communicate this to buyers? Outside of enthusiast forums, nobody knows the difference between, say, Nehalem and Sandy Bridge. They just know that their computer says "i5" or "i7" on it. It would be easier to simply retain support than deal with the fallout of a game working on some "i7" computers and not others.
 
Zefram0911 said:
I decided to buy an i7 3770K from microcenter today. Hope I don't regret it in a few weeks. Can't say I'm disappointed so far. 4.4Ghz out of the box without any increase in voltage. I'm hoping for 4.8.. 4.9Ghz once I play around with it some more. This should tide me over for a few years. It's noticeably faster than my i7 920 @ 3.8Ghz.
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Just from personal experience of being in this hobby the last 15+ years...you will have buyer's remorse. IMO, avoid the forums for at least a few months after Haswell releases.
 
sphinx99 said:
No chance of this, after all how would game publishers communicate this to buyers? Outside of enthusiast forums, nobody knows the difference between, say, Nehalem and Sandy Bridge. They just know that their computer says "i5" or "i7" on it. It would be easier to simply retain support than deal with the fallout of a game working on some "i7" computers and not others.
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Can't wait until they start combining i7 and i5 with model year numbers. Like 2012 i5, 2013 i5, 2014 i5. It's similar to cars and that seems to be a system a normal person can understand to at least some degree and doesn't get in the way of gearheads who want to dig deeper.
 
I'm in a weird position.

I have had the upgrade "itch" for a couple of years now, and have had my heart set on Haswell for quite a while.

However, preliminary reports regarding the poor overclocking and heat output from Haswell chips have me rethinking my position.

My i7 920 @4.4 Ghz can pretty much run anything without issue. However, my motherboard has no Sata 3 or USB 3. Plus, it is a powerhog.

Given that I primarily game on my machine (the rest of my work is done in Stata or Excel, which is hardly demanding), I can either:

A) Buy a second 7970 and CF my rig + Larger capacity SSD
B) Overhaul entire system to Haswell, but stick with my one 7970

Decisions, Decisions.
 
"no way to have onboard and discrete card enabled at the same time...but you can hook both monitors to your 5850"
this comment from overclockers.net turned me off this haswell thing alittle.

i was thinking of utilizing the integrated graphics on one monitor but it cant be done?
 
alek said:
"no way to have onboard and discrete card enabled at the same time...but you can hook both monitors to your 5850"
this comment from overclockers.net turned me off this haswell thing alittle.

i was thinking of utilizing the integrated graphics on one monitor but it cant be done?
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I've been doing it on my SB i5 and IB i7 since I owned them. I can't imagine why this would be any different on Haswell. I call BS on that claim.

That said, it would be a very weak reason to not go Haswell.
 
Can you do things with this onboard gpu? Encoding while recording gameplay is possible? I can't see any benefits of this with a discrete gpu on the machine, kinda wonder why it's in the 350$ chip.
 
RamonGTP said:
I've been doing it on my SB i5 and IB i7 since I owned them. I can't imagine why this would be any different on Haswell. I call BS on that claim.

That said, it would be a very weak reason to not go Haswell.
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Alright that sounds great. Come to think of it on the laptop i can do choose only a few specific apps for the dedicated gpu while the cpu gpu deals with other stuff. The integrated gpu gets mostly all the bells and whistles so I dont see why it shouldnt be of importance.

kingduqc said:
Can you do things with this onboard gpu? Encoding while recording gameplay is possible? I can't see any benefits of this with a discrete gpu on the machine, kinda wonder why it's in the 350$ chip.
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It can hardly~ be called discrete with an overclock and a big aftermarket cooler blowing on the cpu (which contains the gpu)

And yes if it works the same way as on the laptop you can select what gpu to use for each app/game but it will toll the cpu alot tho i think with just 4 cores.
 
I choose apps for each gpu in the nvidia control panel btw and can enable "right click to run with dedicated gpu". Again this is on a laptop.
 
Should be plenty of availability. I've never had a problem getting a CPU on release day.
 
Guys should I dump my 2600k at 4800 MHz ( also running 3 780s in Tri Sli as of tomorrow ) and go has well or wait one more generation?
 
Marcdaddy said:
Guys should I dump my 2600k at 4800 MHz ( also running 3 780s in Tri Sli as of tomorrow ) and go has well or wait one more generation?
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i'd say wait a little more patiently..sooner than later you'll have the perfect reviews...
 
vict0r said:
i'd say wait a little more patiently..sooner than later you'll have the perfect reviews...
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It hard because I was at my Local Microcenter and on Sunday they ate going to have special pricing on all Haswells and Motherboards. Also discounting Ram pretty steep as well and it's only in store.
 
sphinx99 said:
No chance of this, after all how would game publishers communicate this to buyers? Outside of enthusiast forums, nobody knows the difference between, say, Nehalem and Sandy Bridge. They just know that their computer says "i5" or "i7" on it. It would be easier to simply retain support than deal with the fallout of a game working on some "i7" computers and not others.
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They would communicate it the same way they always have, by putting the base processor in the minimum system spec. Instead of reading Core2Duo E8500 it will just say i3 2100, some people might get a little confused but not enough to matter (those are the kinds of people who will just as likely buy a game for a console anyway).
 
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Marcdaddy said:
Guys should I dump my 2600k at 4800 MHz ( also running 3 780s in Tri Sli as of tomorrow ) and go has well or wait one more generation?
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I don't think it's necessary, unless you want more bragging rights on the newest stuff, but I'm waiting (as I'm sure others are) for overclocking info on it before jumping.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
I don't think it's necessary, unless you want more bragging rights on the newest stuff, but I'm waiting (as I'm sure others are) for overclocking info on it before jumping.
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Only if limitations of 8x 4x 4x PCI-E 2.0 become obvious, otherwise no.
 
Marcdaddy said:
It hard because I was at my Local Microcenter and on Sunday they ate going to have special pricing on all Haswells and Motherboards. Also discounting Ram pretty steep as well and it's only in store.
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Haven't been to mine in a couple weeks, did they have pricing or did a salesman say they were going to do that?
 
ShuttleLuv said:
I don't think it's necessary, unless you want more bragging rights on the newest stuff, but I'm waiting (as I'm sure others are) for overclocking info on it before jumping.
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+1
I have a 2600k and will only jump is there is some decent overclocking ability in Haswell.
 
I am still running a 2600K in my personal system. I will very likely be making an upgrade soon.
 
Although my 2600K is more than enough for my gaming and occasional video transcoding, I plan to upgrade to Haswell for native PCIe 3.0 support. The extra bandwidth should be useful for a pair of GTX 780s or 880s next year.
 
I have a new in box i5 2500k I am thinking about selling. I am not sure what I am going to end up going with it or if I am going to go for Haswell or maybe even switch things up entirely and get a AMD rig to play around with. The 2500k's can definitely OC well from what I've read.
 
I think I'll be moving to Haswell simply for the power savings... my X58 setup sucks a lot of juice even at idle and considering I leave my PC on 24/7, I think Haswell could bring a decent savings over a year's time.
 
You proabably wouldn't be saving as much as you think. I'm not sure of the difference between Haswell and 1st Gen i7's. but compared to SB chips, the difference at idle will only be a few W.
 
silkstone said:
the difference at idle will only be a few W.
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True, saving a 1000 watts per hour here will save you $0.09hr here in Indiana. The price of the upgrade could take 10 years to recoup.

I'm currently building a DC powered server were each watt counts, and the payoff is in the chase for the lowest consumption.
 
silkstone said:
You proabably wouldn't be saving as much as you think. I'm not sure of the difference between Haswell and 1st Gen i7's. but compared to SB chips, the difference at idle will only be a few W.
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Compared to SB, yes, but overclocked X58 draws ~150W at idle for me. Comparable Ivy setups draw like around 80-90W. At load the difference is over 100W.

I pay 0.26 per kwh on-peak in the summer and having less heat dumped out would probably make my AC run less too...

It'll probably bring decent savings over a year. I wouldn't expect it to come close to covering the cost of equipment but it's still a nice perk.
 
I'm waiting to see what Haswell brings, and for how much. If Haswell costs too much with not too much gain, I'll grab a 3770k and delid it. If Haswell is a win, well, then I'll grab a Haswell. I'll be happy either way.

Ken
 
I'd think its a bit early for MC bundles, we don't even know the costs of motherboards yet.
 
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