Windows 8 Pricing Update

[wtburnette]

I agree: New doesn't make it better.

Unfortunately, we have to rely on the market to decide for this, not just a handful of posters on a forum that a company has never heard about. SNIP

The problem with Microsoft is that they're doing what other companies have been doing for decades. They're responding to market demands.

To rely on the market, the majority of the consumers using these Microsoft products, to decide whether they like the new interface or other changes in these products is going to be foolhardy and futile. These consumers would have to tell Microsoft they don't like the ModernUI and the other quirks of Windows 8.

That's not going to happen.

Hence: "... we cannot stop change..."

Hence: "... we either adapt or get used to it..."

Change is going to happen whether you like it or not, and it's not just computers.

Either we have to adapt now and learn, or we don't adapt at all.

Move on. Complaining isn't going to get us anywhere.

Sorry, had to chop your post a bit. Just left some of the highlights. So, if something comes out to the market and you don't like it, you buy it anyway and just adapt? I don't know about you but I don't think that's a good strategy. Consumers ARE the market. If sales are poor enough, MS will HAVE to make changes, it's that simple. As you pointed out, look to Vista as an example. It may take a couple of years, but that's okay, I can wait. Support for Win7 has a long while to go yet.

BTW, what MS did was to overcompensate. They were behind in mobile to the point of not even being considered a player so they "did something different" to stand out and become a leader. Problem is, the market is showing that they don't want a unifying UI across every platform. Touch features on non-touch devices just doesn't make sense.

Seems I'm not the only one that feels that way. I like dr.stevil's response below.

That's nonsense. The squeeky wheel gets the grease, as they say. Negitive press (which MS has been getting almost nonstop since the beta release of Windows 8) and lackluster sales will send a loud message to MS. The number of 3rd party hacks that exist to re-enable the start menu (for example) should send a pretty clear message what people think of the start screen and metro in general.

MS could bury thier heads in the sand and ignore the criticisms, but they also don't have the influence they once did. Their desktop and Laptop presence is still there, but tablet and mobile is pitiful (and where the future is headed). I honestly believe that if Gabe and Co. over at Valve are able to sweet talk developers to switching over to OpenGL and porting titles to Linux, it could be the start of a very painful slide for MS.

With the tremedous handicap that MS has in the mobile space they should be doing everything possible to make Windows an attractive platform. So far they've failed miserably and pissed off many loyal users.

Yep thats all I've tried to do.

When I first loaded up the Beta I too thought "WTF??" Yeah I was pretty annoyed, wondered at the sanity of it all. You can check back on my posts from around April if you like. Well if you could, only goes back to September.

Then I sat down and thought "well it isn't going away, that's the way it is!" So I worked out to how to make it work better for me. Didn't take long and it's working just fine. I can't afford to act negatively about a product to customers if I have to make a living from it.

I'm not going to make a living selling Linux to customers. I've tried. I can't give it away, no matter how hard I try. They just want Windows, it's the brand and they don't care what version it is either. I've since rolled Windows 8 out to several customers. Feedback has been fine, no issues so far, these were mainly XP users with a few early Vista ones. Anyone on 7, I tell them to stick with 7.

I just don't have the time or energy to strike out at everything that doesn't go my way. Life isn't fair, you learn that as you get older. Sometimes you just have to compromise. Often after you do, you wonder what you were worried about in the first place.

Different strokes.....

Another with the attitude of "we can't do anything so we might as well give in". Sorry all, that's just not my attitude. Either MS makes changes going forward to adapt the OS to the platform it's going to be used on, or I'll keep Win7 till the support runs out and see what alternatives are around. Touch elements on the desktop are just dumb. Personally I think there are people at MS that may eventually wise up to that fact.

 

[daglesj]

Another with the attitude of "we can't do anything so we might as well give in". Sorry all, that's just not my attitude. Either MS makes changes going forward to adapt the OS to the platform it's going to be used on, or I'll keep Win7 till the support runs out and see what alternatives are around. Touch elements on the desktop are just dumb. Personally I think there are people at MS that may eventually wise up to that fact.

So what are you going to do about it then? Posting on a forum isn't going to work.

What's your effective strategy here to turn around a global mega-corp's decision to try some changes?

There comes a time when you learn some battles are worth fighting and some aren't.

This isn't one of them. Windows 9 will be different yet again, so will 10.........

You may well get your wish in time. We'll have to see. In the meantime don't let it get to you. It's not worth it.

 

[daglesj]

Problem is, the market is showing that they don't want a unifying UI across every platform. Touch features on non-touch devices just doesn't make sense.

Seems I'm not the only one that feels that way.

I often wonder what the reaction would have been had Apple brought out a unified OS/UI across its phone/tablet and computer range.

I bet the tech journos would have been calling it "revolutionary" and "a bold statement".

In fact it wouldn't surprise me that Apple are a bit pissed at MS for jumping the gun on this one. Maybe they would have done it a little different but the premise is still the same. I know Cook criticised it but that may have been to go along with the Press's reaction to it.

I bet somewhere Apple have a team working on unifying and merging iOS and OSX as we speak.

 

[octoberasian]

Sorry, had to chop your post a bit. Just left some of the highlights. So, if something comes out to the market and you don't like it, you buy it anyway and just adapt? I don't know about you but I don't think that's a good strategy. Consumers ARE the market. If sales are poor enough, MS will HAVE to make changes, it's that simple. As you pointed out, look to Vista as an example. It may take a couple of years, but that's okay, I can wait. Support for Win7 has a long while to go yet.

BTW, what MS did was to overcompensate. They were behind in mobile to the point of not even being considered a player so they "did something different" to stand out and become a leader. Problem is, the market is showing that they don't want a unifying UI across every platform. Touch features on non-touch devices just doesn't make sense.

Seems I'm not the only one that feels that way. I like dr.stevil's response below.

Another with the attitude of "we can't do anything so we might as well give in". Sorry all, that's just not my attitude. Either MS makes changes going forward to adapt the OS to the platform it's going to be used on, or I'll keep Win7 till the support runs out and see what alternatives are around. Touch elements on the desktop are just dumb. Personally I think there are people at MS that may eventually wise up to that fact.

You along with many others are not enough against a multi-billion dollar corporation.

I already know Microsoft is way behind both Google and Apple, and if you count them, Amazon, in terms of mobile devices, mobile apps, and mobile device marketshare. No one wants a unified interface across every device. But, when you think about it: Microsoft has no unifying ecosystem in the first place especially if you consider the UI as part of the ecosystem. They lack a large app store, are behind in terms of music and video streaming services, are behind in terms of digital music and video purchases and downloads, and are behind in mobile device marketshare.

There are already tile-based UI from Windows Phone 8 to Xbox 360 Dashboard to now Microsoft Windows 8 tablets and desktop PCs. Manufacturers are starting to churn out touchscreen-based laptops and all-in-one desktop PCs. Microsoft is pushing this UI, this environment and ecosystem to as many products as possible. At the moment, whether they're listening to criticisms or not from the press and the public, consider this UI an "evolutionary" or "revolutionary" UI compared to older GUIs from previous versions of Windows.

Microsoft wants this to succeed especially in the likes against Apple and Google. It'll take time, but I don't know if it's going to work. Microsoft is very late to the game. Intel and AMD as well when it comes to mobile processors and SoCs versus the likes of Apple (Ax), Qualcomm (Snapdragon), Samsung (Exynos), and a few others. The major players in desktop PCs-- Intel, AMD, and Microsoft-- are behind other competitors in the rather crowded mobile market.

Like I said-- it's going to take a lot of people to convince Microsoft to change this user interface. Unfortunately, Microsoft is pushing this tile-based UI and touchscreen-based UI in as many devices as possible hoping to succeed against its competitors. With that many products with this interface, it's really forcing people to use the interface in Windows 8 when they buy these products.

With Vista, it took a lot of criticism and bad press. Heck, I had Vista for 4 whole months before I gave up and went to Windows 7 Beta. Beta of all things. Not many people use a beta OS as their primary OS. My biggest issues even after the service packs were installed: slow disk-to-disk transfer speed even with 7200 RPM drives, slow PC-to-PC transfer speed over Ethernet, driver compatibility issues. These were issues posted on various forums and tech sites.

The biggest glaring issue with Windows 8 is the frontend of the OS-- the GUI and placement of certain items that certain tasks may take a little longer to do. The backend is actually pretty good-- memory management and process usage-- and I've experienced that first hand.

"daglesj" said it best:

So what are you going to do about it then? Posting on a forum isn't going to work.

What's your effective strategy here to turn around a global mega-corp's decision to try some changes?

There comes a time when you learn some battles are worth fighting and some aren't.

This isn't one of them. Windows 9 will be different yet again, so will 10.........

You may well get your wish in time. We'll have to see. In the meantime don't let it get to you. It's not worth it.

Microsoft is going to see this interface through to possibly Windows 9 and beyond. The user interface of Windows 1 was mostly carried over to Windows 3 then partly into Windows 95. However, that user interface, with a few graphical changes, was carried over to as far as Windows 7. That's 14 years of that Start button and taskbar GUI from Windows 95 to Windows 7. That's twice as long as the UI from Windows 1 to 3.1x. Would you think that Microsoft would keep a user interface for much longer before trying something new?

Or, put it this way: Would a car company keep the styling of a 1950s swooping, fin-tailed sedan all the way to the 1990s?

Hell no.

Companies continually try to improve their products, innovate, evolve with the changing times, and change.

Every company does that from cars to computers to software to tablets to cell phones. If a company doesn't find new ways to survive, adapt, evolve, or innovate in an ever changing marketplace, they will not succeed. I guarantee that. It's basic economics. Hell, I was taught that back in Economics 101 in college.

Companies change their products all the time. Who knows how long this user interface and frontend is going to last. But, given what Microsoft's competitors are doing, and how they're continually adapting to the marketplace shifting to more and more mobile devices and becoming a very mobile and connected society, Microsoft had to change. Intel and AMD have to change-- they can't continually manufacture and design desktop x86 processors. Now they're making a shift towards mobile processors and SoCs. If they don't do this, they'll be left behind.

You, me, and dozens of others on this forum don't like the UI. Many of us on Windows 8 have had to use third-party software to get a Start-like menu back in the OS. Why? It's what WE WERE USED TO for 14 long years of this UI. It took me time to adjust to the UI of Windows 1 to 3 after coming from a DOS-based, command line environment. Transitioning into a Start menu GUI beginning with Windows 95 was easy to get into. Getting into Windows 8 took some adjustment even with Start8. However, with most of my most used programs pinned to taskbar like in Windows 7, and using the Search feature to launch unpinned programs, I haven't complained since.

Why? I got used to it. I took the time to learn the interface and its quirks like how to launch the Control Panel or shutting down/restarting the computer.

We either have to learn how to get used to this or we fall behind. Microsoft is going to push this GUI and this environment for the foreseeable future,regardless of the criticisms. If Microsoft is going to follow a path similar to Linux-based distros release schedule, this GUI will probably be largely unchanged a year from now when Windows 9 is released. It is very unlikely they'll make the ModernUI switchable between it and a Start menu, but they'll probably make usability improvements to the ModernUI Start screen instead. Having used Microsoft operating systems as long as I have, I'm sure they'll just make improvements to the current UI.

Is it foolish to continue this GUI? Yes.

Is it foolish for them to not listen to the criticisms and bad press? Yes.

Are they listening to them? Probably.

But, will it change anything? Maybe not.

Like I said already, the most we'll probably see as a result of the criticisms and bad press about a touch-based UI on a non-touch based desktop PC is usability changes like what happened to Windows 98/XP Start Menu going into Vista and Windows 7. That's it. Nothing more if you know Microsoft very well after 20-plus years of operating system development. Usability and graphical changes to the GUI itself from one OS to the next. That's probably the most they'll do.

Want to change that direction? Get hired by Microsoft and work your way to the top or head of their software or operating system development teams. Go ahead and try. It's you versus a company with a multi-billion dollar net income, a near or practically monopolistic grip on the desktop OS marketshare, and millions of shareholders.

That or tell people to stop buying touch-based devices like smartphones and tablets because last time I checked, that marketshare is going up while desktop PC marketshare is gradually slowing down. Companies listen very well to market trends, or wherever the money is. If people are continually buying more mobile devices to stay connected online, I'm sure more and more companies are going to continually feed that market with touch-based interfaces and devices.

You probably will be more successful in getting this UI some bad press by getting some picket signs, gathering several hundred or several thousand people and protesting on the Microsoft campus in Redmond, Washington than complaining on a forum or a blog that Microsoft probably has no idea it exists in the first place.

Like companies themselves, you either adapt to it, learn the new interface, and move on, or be left behind. There's absolutely no way Microsoft is going to change this for the foreseeable future other than usability improvements in either service packs or Windows 9 and beyond.

And, what are you going to do when Microsoft releases DirectX 12 and makes it exclusive to Windows 8 or 9 and higher?

Given this forum is primarily an overclocking, enthusiast and gaming forum, what are you going to do if games begin using DX12 in about three to five years from now?

Microsoft is going to pull that shady shit again like with DirectX 10 and Windows Vista.

It's inevitable.

So, either stop complaining about the UI and learn how to use it, or stick to the older interface and wait for Microsoft to pull that trick again with their proprietary, closed-source API for games. Microsoft is going to force people into a new operating system regardless whether we want to or not. They're already pushing manufacturers to installing Windows 8 into OEM mobile devices, laptops and desktop PCs. When more people buy it, they're going to have to live with it and learn how to use it. I'm sure the transition from a Windows OS to an iOS UI in iPhone took adjustments as well. But, look at where we are now since the first iPhone was released-- Google has released Android with a similar and familiar GUI. Users have gotten used to both because it's familiar to them. And, I'm sure both Google and Apple are looking into ways in improving their mobile operating systems as we speak, in order to adjust to new technology and the market itself. Microsoft wants that sense of familiarity as well from the looks of it. So, for example, if you're on the 360 watching movies using the tile-based interface or using Windows Phone 8 then use a Windows 8 tablet then move to your desktop PC, the user interface is similar from one to the other. That's my thinking is what Microsoft wants-- a sense of familiarity with their products, and a sense of similar interfaces in interacting with the device or PC you are using.

If you don't like it, you may as well get used to a Linux-based distro. GNOME 3 has a UI that seems to be geared towards a touch-based device. You can always use MATE or Cinnamon desktop environments as they're very much like Windows 7 and XP. Or, if you want to be fancy, there's E17 GUI. Then, you'll have to wait for game developers jump to OpenGL over DirectX. (That just made me laugh a little because that's going to take quite a while to happen.) Then, you have to wait for more games to appear on Steam for Linux, or wait for EA make Origin for Linux.

Change is inevitable, and Microsoft is going to use every ounce of their marketing muscle and billion dollar income in pushing this OS and its GUI into as many devices as possible. I will not be surprised that the next Xbox is going to use Kinect more and more in its tile-based UI in the Dashboard. It's going to happen one way or another. So, get used to this GUI and environment because Microsoft is going to see this interface through in as many Microsoft-based products they put it into-- tablets, smartphones, laptops, and desktop PCs, especially when manufacturers of desktop PCs start releasing touchscreens for their products.

I often wonder what the reaction would have been had Apple brought out a unified OS/UI across its phone/tablet and computer range.

I bet the tech journos would have been calling it "revolutionary" and "a bold statement".

In fact it wouldn't surprise me that Apple are a bit pissed at MS for jumping the gun on this one. Maybe they would have done it a little different but the premise is still the same. I know Cook criticised it but that may have been to go along with the Press's reaction to it.

I bet somewhere Apple have a team working on unifying and merging iOS and OSX as we speak.

Apple probably is observing Microsoft as we speak. I would not be surprised a GNOME-like or iOS-like GUI is going to appear in a future version of Mac OS with touch-based interface. And, I would not be surprised a multi-touch-based iMac and/or Cinema Display is in the works. Their laptops already have a multi-touch trackpads, so a touch-based UI to utilize such a feature is probably not too far into the future to consider.

And, Apple will probably succeed there in a touch-based OS more than Microsoft given how many loyal diehard fans of its products they have, and the experience they have with multi-touch interfaces beginning with iOS and iPhone then the iPad. Apple has always been about simplicity in their products, so a simple touch-based GUI for their OS that's actually usable isn't too hard to imagine that it would happen.

 

[dangerouseddy]

geez. great wall of text attack.

 

[TheMadHatterXxX]

HOLY SHIT!

Anyway, If I purchase the download edition, can I burn my own copy or save it somewhere, as opposed to having to buy the DVD version for $30.00 more?

 

[dangerouseddy]

Anyway, If I purchase the download edition, can I burn my own copy or save it somewhere, as opposed to having to buy the DVD version for $30.00 more?

well i think the upgrade assistant downloads an iso afaik. so you could burn that to a disc. havent tried it yet as im still debating wether to buy it even at £15.

 

[daglesj]

well i think the upgrade assistant downloads an iso afaik. so you could burn that to a disc. havent tried it yet as im still debating wether to buy it even at £15.

Yeah you get a key in an email and the ISO to download and burn when you are ready.

 

[dr.stevil]

In fact it wouldn't surprise me that Apple are a bit pissed at MS for jumping the gun on this one. Maybe they would have done it a little different but the premise is still the same. I know Cook criticised it but that may have been to go along with the Press's reaction to it.

I bet somewhere Apple have a team working on unifying and merging iOS and OSX as we speak.

I highly doubt it. Apple has said in the past that it doesn't make sense to have a desktop OS on a tablet/phone and vice versa. They already unified the two platforms with icloud and 10.8 as they're likely going to. I don't think Apple will ever treat ios and osx as the same product (nor the ipad/iphone/ipod and their laptops/desktops)

 

[TheMadHatterXxX]

well i think the upgrade assistant downloads an iso afaik. so you could burn that to a disc. havent tried it yet as im still debating wether to buy it even at £15.

Can anyone confirm for sure, I'd like to know before January 31st <- (lol), not that I'm actually going to use it anytime soon but I just want to have it around in case MS decides to screw us all over and make DX12 only be Windows 8 compatible.

 

[Raxiel]

Anyway, If I purchase the download edition, can I burn my own copy or save it somewhere, as opposed to having to buy the DVD version for $30.00 more?

Yes, the installer gives you the option of creating an ISO or writing it to a disk/usb stick there and then.

 

[Raxiel]

Yes, the installer gives you the option of creating an ISO or writing it to a disk/usb stick there and then.

I've installed 8 on 3 computers, 1 from the download, and 2 from the disk i created with that download (I didn't need to use the disk for the first one because the installer remained on the desktop after creating the ISO

 

[Jagger100]

Just a comment on 3-rd party extensions that re-enable the Start Menu. Many workplaces, the larger the more likely, will never issue anything but plain vanilla Windows 8 when they do issue it. My workplace would not allow you to install something like that as well on your own. At the same time, chances of being issued new 'touch-based' hardware is slim to none and Slim just left town.

 

[daglesj]

Just a comment on 3-rd party extensions that re-enable the Start Menu. Many workplaces, the larger the more likely, will never issue anything but plain vanilla Windows 8 when they do issue it. My workplace would not allow you to install something like that as well on your own. At the same time, chances of being issued new 'touch-based' hardware is slim to none and Slim just left town.

Lol, took me two years of hassling the the IT Build team to add in Cleartype and large font support.

 

[Jagger100]

Sorry, had to chop your post a bit. Just left some of the highlights. So, if something comes out to the market and you don't like it, you buy it anyway and just adapt? I don't know about you but I don't think that's a good strategy. Consumers ARE the market. If sales are poor enough, MS will HAVE to make changes, it's that simple. As you pointed out, look to Vista as an example. It may take a couple of years, but that's okay, I can wait. Support for Win7 has a long while to go yet.

BTW, what MS did was to overcompensate. They were behind in mobile to the point of not even being considered a player so they "did something different" to stand out and become a leader. Problem is, the market is showing that they don't want a unifying UI across every platform. Touch features on non-touch devices just doesn't make sense.

Seems I'm not the only one that feels that way. I like dr.stevil's response below.





Another with the attitude of "we can't do anything so we might as well give in". Sorry all, that's just not my attitude. Either MS makes changes going forward to adapt the OS to the platform it's going to be used on, or I'll keep Win7 till the support runs out and see what alternatives are around. Touch elements on the desktop are just dumb. Personally I think there are people at MS that may eventually wise up to that fact.

Microsoft missed the point to a unified ecosystem. Making a more common UI is not what creates and ecosystem. The the interoperability of the different aspects of the eco system. When I plug my phone to my laptop, what happens? What can I do that complements the two devices that was hard to do or couldn't do with them on their own? That's what they needed to focus on.

 

[pelo]

I don't understand the argument of "it still works the same" when quite clearly it's ticked off a huge chunk of their users who also seem to be somewhat lost, often referring to googling a solution rather than knowing how to fix it based on years of experience.

Installing a start menu replacement means paying more money out of pocket and exposes the most problematic inherent issue with Win8: you're asked to work around the operating system rather than the operating system working around you. That's the single biggest issue plaguing Win8. If I can't do something the way I want to do it, I want nothing to do with it at all.

 

[Tudz]

*snip*

*snip*

Holy fucking bajeezus. I'm sure you made some good points, but here's something you need to learn:

TL;DR

So what are you going to do about it then? Posting on a forum isn't going to work.

I'm just here to discuss things I'm interested in, not trying to change the world.

What's your effective strategy here to turn around a global mega-corp's decision to try some changes?

Don't buy it and hope for the best, mention to other people that they don't HAVE to use W8

There comes a time when you learn some battles are worth fighting and some aren't.

This isn't one of them. Windows 9 will be different yet again, so will 10.........

You may well get your wish in time. We'll have to see. In the meantime don't let it get to you. It's not worth it.

Yeah, and the more people complain, the more people who don't use it both on Desktop and touch devices, the more likely it will be that we will get out wish.

It's not a "battle", for the most part the people here against W8 are just casually discussing our thoughts, same as you. I don't let it get to me, that would be stupid. Just because I don't think it's a battle and I don't let it keep me up at night doesn't mean I have to like it, accept it or stop talking about it either.

 

[singe_101]

I have Win7 RC still installed on an old hard drive. If there's no internet connection and the date is set to 2009, it is fooled and works.

I'd use that offline before I'd pay a lot for 8.

 

[PornoSatan]

Best news ever, LOL! Windows 8 is one hilarious piece of shit.

 

[octoberasian]

Best news ever, LOL! Windows 8 is one hilarious piece of shit.

Off-topic: I kind of laughed when I saw your user name. Pretty creative.

 

[odditory]

So what are you going to do about it then? Posting on a forum isn't going to work.

What's your effective strategy here to turn around a global mega-corp's decision to try some changes?

There comes a time when you learn some battles are worth fighting and some aren't.

This isn't one of them. Windows 9 will be different yet again, so will 10.........

You may well get your wish in time. We'll have to see. In the meantime don't let it get to you. It's not worth it.

Bullshit, this is very much one of those times its worth fighting, and its not just forums, its universal backlash and its happening everywhere - go to a rape crisis support forum and chances are there's a few threads with people bickering about Window 8.

Apologists can try to spin that there were complaints about XP and Visits and the ribbon and on and on but those were not near the scale of Win8 backlash that's not going away.

And posting on a forum isn't trivial, because techies congregating on techie forums tend to be opinion leaders within their circles when it comes to being approached for advice - I've been asked about Window 8 at least 100 times among my handful of enterprise clients - mostly ordinary employees approaching me - and will put it very matter of fact and let them make their own decision (no net increase in usability on a non-touch device and no compelling Metro apps to make it worth the sacrifice).

 

[redrage]

with out going through all the pages to see if its here.. for those wanting to upgrade to windows 7 from windows 8 you can.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx

 

[daglesj]

Bullshit, this is very much one of those times its worth fighting, and its not just forums, its universal backlash and its happening everywhere - go to a rape crisis support forum and chances are there's a few threads with people bickering about Window 8.

Apologists can try to spin that there were complaints about XP and Visits and the ribbon and on and on but those were not near the scale of Win8 backlash that's not going away.

And posting on a forum isn't trivial, because techies congregating on techie forums tend to be opinion leaders within their circles when it comes to being approached for advice - I've been asked about Window 8 at least 100 times among my handful of enterprise clients - mostly ordinary employees approaching me - and will put it very matter of fact and let them make their own decision (no net increase in usability on a non-touch device and no compelling Metro apps to make it worth the sacrifice).

And at the end of the day who really cares and what does it matter?

It's just some software that will be replaced in a couple of years.

 

[fdiaz78]

Bullshit, this is very much one of those times its worth fighting, and its not just forums, its universal backlash and its happening everywhere - go to a rape crisis support forum and chances are there's a few threads with people bickering about Window 8.

Apologists can try to spin that there were complaints about XP and Visits and the ribbon and on and on but those were not near the scale of Win8 backlash that's not going away.

And posting on a forum isn't trivial, because techies congregating on techie forums tend to be opinion leaders within their circles when it comes to being approached for advice - I've been asked about Window 8 at least 100 times among my handful of enterprise clients - mostly ordinary employees approaching me - and will put it very matter of fact and let them make their own decision (no net increase in usability on a non-touch device and no compelling Metro apps to make it worth the sacrifice).

I have been doing my part by telling folks to avoid Windows 8 like the plague. MS needs to bring back the Start Menu and give us an option.

 

[pelo]

And at the end of the day who really cares and what does it matter?

It's just some software that will be replaced in a couple of years.

With what is the question. Is it more of the same? More tabletification leaving enthusiasts, workstation folks and enterprise users with no path forward?

 

[Tudz]

And at the end of the day who really cares and what does it matter?

It's just some software that will be replaced in a couple of years.

Well I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about the cause as the odd one, but I do somewhat care. At the end of the day, my desktop PC is the device I have by far the most interaction with. Not all my work is done from it, but a large portion is, my gaming is done from it, my web browsing, my movie watching. No other appliance comes close, maybe my car.

Because of that I, like a lot of people, have a vested interest in what happens with Windows, being as how it's the dominant OS. If it were some random linux distro, very few people would give a shit and even if they did, they'd move to another distro or just fix it with open source modification. If it were iOS, some people would give a shit, most wouldn't care though.

At the end of the day, I don't get emotionally attached to my software, I buy what I buy and I don't buy what I don't buy. If I eventually NEED W8, I'll use it, simple as that, until I do, I won't, because I don't like the direction MS is going with it and don't like several of the changes.

Also, you say "at the end of the day who really cares and what does it matter?", yet you are still here, still reading posts and still replying. It would be a bit hypocritical of you to assume other people don't care.

 

[Tudz]

*shouldn't care. Damned lack of an edit button.

 

[daglesj]

Also, you say "at the end of the day who really cares and what does it matter?", yet you are still here, still reading posts and still replying. It would be a bit hypocritical of you to assume other people don't care.

Oh indeed I am, I do care but not in quite such an 'emotional' way as some here obviously are.

I'm just intrigued at why some people let things that are quite 'unemotional' as software code get them so riled up.

It will all change again soon. Windows 10 will be along before we know it. Its not like we'll have to wait like we did for Vista and then 7.

 

[odditory]

I'm just intrigued at why some people let things that are quite 'unemotional' as software code get them so riled up.

I wouldn't say its the software necessarily riling people up - its just software after all. Where the debate becomes heated is when one group is saying things like "People just dont like change", "You're using it wrong", "You just didn't spend enough time with it", "Even my grandma figured it out", "You can't change destiny", "The sky is green" and other such hits, then another group comes along that might have otherwise been indifferent, and goes "wait a f_cking minute". Thats where things get polarizing.

 

[Void]

I wouldn't say its the software necessarily riling people up - its just software after all. Where the debate becomes heated is when one group is saying things like "People just dont like change", "You're using it wrong", "You just didn't spend enough time with it", "Even my grandma figured it out", "You can't change destiny", "The sky is green" and other such hits, then another group comes along that might have otherwise been indifferent, and goes "wait a f_cking minute". Thats where things get polarizing.

You forgot the 3rd group. The one who just wants to call anyone who use and likes Windows 8 all kinds of pet names.

 

[Tudz]

You forgot the 3rd group. The one who just wants to call anyone who use and likes Windows 8 all kinds of pet names.

If by "anyone who uses and likes Windows 8" you mean heatlesssun, I agree

 

[wtburnette]

To respond to both octoberasian and daglesj both, Tudz and odditory both answered better then I could have. It basically boils down to yes, not buying Windows 8 and posting comments in tech forums does make a difference. Maybe not enough to change things, but who knows, maybe it will be enough. I'm quite certain MS is looking at sales numbers and is reading forums and comments all over the internet trying to figure out what the consumer thinks of it's new OS. Everything I've seen indicates consumers and businesses both dislike the new UI. If you think those opinions don't matter, you're fooling yourself. It may not change things now, but it will for future Windows versions. It may even force them to make some changes to Win 8 in a service pack or something.

All that aside, I know one thing for absolute certain. If I kept my opinions to myself and just bought Windows 8, and other people did the same, it's guaranteed that nothing would change. Sales would be much better then they are now and there would be no backlash and MS would count this as a victory. It's not and you have only to go to pretty much anywhere on the internet to figure that out.

Microsoft missed the point to a unified ecosystem. Making a more common UI is not what creates and ecosystem. The the interoperability of the different aspects of the eco system. When I plug my phone to my laptop, what happens? What can I do that complements the two devices that was hard to do or couldn't do with them on their own? That's what they needed to focus on.

That's very true. I will agree that MS focused on the wrong aspects of a 'unifying ecosystem". A unifying UI doesn't make sense on different platforms with different controls.

One thing that I will say is that the Modern/Metro UI works very well on the Surface and similar tablet type devices. I've used one at work and while it's not intuitive, once you learn how to use it, it works very, very well. I just don't want it on my desktop, server or laptop. I don't see that as asking to much.

If by "anyone who uses and likes Windows 8" you mean heatlesssun, I agree

Had to quote that one, just had to...

 

[octoberasian]

To respond to both octoberasian and daglesj both, Tudz and odditory both answered better then I could have. It basically boils down to yes, not buying Windows 8 and posting comments in tech forums does make a difference. Maybe not enough to change things, but who knows, maybe it will be enough. I'm quite certain MS is looking at sales numbers and is reading forums and comments all over the internet trying to figure out what the consumer thinks of it's new OS. Everything I've seen indicates consumers and businesses both dislike the new UI. If you think those opinions don't matter, you're fooling yourself. It may not change things now, but it will for future Windows versions. It may even force them to make some changes to Win 8 in a service pack or something.

It's going to take quite a lot of people to convince Microsoft to do something about the ModernUI and Start screen, probably more than the criticism that Vista got with driver issues and a few other things.

We probably all know by now a good idea what Microsoft is wanting to do. Other posters in either this thread or another consider Microsoft inching closer and closer to Apple's "walled garden" or unifying ecosystem. I highly doubt they'd be that successful right now, but maybe in time. However, Apple at least separates the two UIs for mobile and desktop very well, and ties them together with App Store (OSX, iOS), iTunes, and iCloud and several other pieces of software. Microsoft is getting there-- Windows Phone Marketplace, Windows 8 Store, Xbox Live (Arcade, Music, movies?), SkyDrive, Office365, Skype and I'm probably missing a few more.

At best, if we all know Microsoft as well as we do now after 20-plus years of OS development, the most we'll probably see are usability improvements. We've seen this between Windows 95/98 to XP, then from XP to Vista/7. Now, they just redid the whole thing coming into Windows 8 after 14 years of Start button UI and 7 years of boxy windows UI before that. Are we looking at a start of another 14 years of Start screen UI now? I'm sure Microsoft wanted something new, "fresh" after 21 years of two different kinds of GUIs. In the end, this is what we got with Windows 8.

Like someone said before-- a unifying UI doesn't equal a unifying ecosystem. I agree with that sentiment. But, apparently Microsoft seems to think so given the tile-based UI goes as far down as the Xbox 360.

/headdesk.

What works on the 360, Windows Phone and tablet, is very apparently not going to work on the desktop unless you got a touchscreen monitor (and, no, a graphics tablet is not the same thing, I've tried). The Windows developer blog has a lot of vocal comments regarding the ModernUI and a few other choice decisions Microsoft made in the past year.

Is it going to work? Maybe, maybe not. This is Microsoft's red-headed stepchild that apparently they want to be the successor in the family at the bemoaning of relatives and friends. Think of the UI as the first step in the unification of its products. Xbox Live for media and games. SkyDrive for cloud storage. Office 365 for productivity software on Windows 8 tablets and desktop, and probably Windows Phone, too. So, it really seems they want this to succeed regardless of criticisms.

But, how much of a market hit for Windows 8 desktop OS are they willing to risk before they start listening to criticisms we give them? We're talking about a multi-billion dollar company here with millions invested in getting Microsoft towards that end goal.

(Though, jumping the price up to its "original, un-discounted" price on February 1st. might get them to rethink about the whole thing faster than we can protest about Windows 8 in a forum like this, anyway. )

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In the next service pack or the next yearly release of a major OS update (new version of Windows?), we'll probably see a few things happen if there is enough criticism about the UI and the market shows that the UI doesn't work:

1. Start menu returns. - Highly unlikely.
2. Start screen gets more usability improvements by next service pack. - Likely
3. Start button returns but launches Start screen. - Seems likely.
4. Retains Start screen and makes improvements to it by next Windows version. - Very likely.

 

[SkribbelKat]

If by "anyone who uses and likes Windows 8" you mean heatlesssun, I agree

Oh come on now, it's more than just heatlesssun if you count all his other accounts as different people.

 

[octoberasian]

Oh come on now, it's more than just heatlesssun if you count all his other accounts as different people.

Off-topic: He has more than one account?

(Though, he's been rather silent lately given the last two or three Windows 8-related threads.)

 

[wtburnette]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In the next service pack or the next yearly release of a major OS update (new version of Windows?), we'll probably see a few things happen if there is enough criticism about the UI and the market shows that the UI doesn't work:

1. Start menu returns. - Highly unlikely.
2. Start screen gets more usability improvements by next service pack. - Likely
3. Start button returns but launches Start screen. - Seems likely.
4. Retains Start screen and makes improvements to it by next Windows version. - Very likely.

Actually, my hope is with the poor sales (or at least relatively poor sales, depending on who you're talking to) plus tons of feedback from technical and non-technical consumers and even more importantly, businesses, we may actually see the ability to toggle off some of the tablet portions of the UI for desktop users. I would still be unhappy to lose aero, which I really like, but having a native option to turn off hot corners, the charms bar and the start screen would be a step in the right direction. I've talked with a lot of business folks and I don't know of any who are planning to roll out Windows 8 in its current form. I don't know that MS likes the idea of people holding onto Windows 7 the way they did XP, but that's exactly what's going to happen if something isn't done.

 

[heatlesssun]

Off-topic: He has more than one account?

No I do not. I don't know why he likes to percolate this lie. At any rate these Windows 8 threads around here are way past old. No one including myself is saying that we've all not heard before 100 times before.

 

[Rob Black]

$200 WTF

 

[ManofGod]

$200 WTF

$199 retail, oem will cost less as always. In fact, the article quoted says that if you are building a new machine, oem is the way to go.

 

[octoberasian]

Actually, my hope is with the poor sales (or at least relatively poor sales, depending on who you're talking to) plus tons of feedback from technical and non-technical consumers and even more importantly, businesses, we may actually see the ability to toggle off some of the tablet portions of the UI for desktop users. I would still be unhappy to lose aero, which I really like, but having a native option to turn off hot corners, the charms bar and the start screen would be a step in the right direction. I've talked with a lot of business folks and I don't know of any who are planning to roll out Windows 8 in its current form. I don't know that MS likes the idea of people holding onto Windows 7 the way they did XP, but that's exactly what's going to happen if something isn't done.

Seeing how Microsoft is or has started doing some things that Linux-based distros have been doing already:

• Planned - Major OS updates each year (new Windows OS?); small updates in-between (service packs?).
• Included - Process management by sleeping/parking unused/inactive processes/programs.

... I'd like to see them take a page out of some of the Linux-distros-- full UI customization that doesn't require hacking/patching the uxtheme.dll file or similar.

For example, in my Mint 14 install, I can customize hot corners, the desktop environment, and each aspect of the window, thickness, buttons, fonts, animations, effects, etc. All of that under the Cinnamon settings since that's my default desktop environment. Heck, the KDE customization options are even more detailed.

Why don't we have that in Windows without having to resort to one of the many Stardock products out there?

Yeah, I like Aero, but give me an option to customize the Start screen, Start button, task bar, effects, animations, Charms bar, etc., and I'm sure you, myself, and countless will be happy with Windows 8. I still don't understand the exact reasoning behind bringing the Start screen to the desktop and even their Server 2012 products other than unifying all their products under one roof.

Microsoft must be smoking something good at Redmond because they are coming up with things such as a $130 keyboard for a tablet, $199 for Windows 8 Pro, $899 for the Surface Pro, and spreading the tile-based UI from the 360 to Server 2012 like Paula Deen going crazy with butter.