Win 10 Poll Kept it Or Ditched it

Win 10 Poll

  • I love it, I'm keeping it.

    Votes: 124 58.8%

  • I hated it, keeping win 7

    Votes: 54 25.6%

  • I haven't tried it but I'm going to tell you what I think anyway.

    Votes: 33 15.6%
  • Total voters
    211
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Modred189 said:
The story was all over. After a quick google search-
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2978...dows-7-8-amidst-windows-10-privacy-storm.html

The changes were made to the privacy policy to reflect existing behavior. NOT to add new behavior.

Similarly:
http://arstechnica.com/information-...dows-privacy-policy-a-little-more-reassuring/

The clarification was in the policy, not the behavior.
Thus, Win 10 isn't as bad as so many FUDers claim, and Win 7 is doing more than they thought.
Click to expand...


These links do not address zero2dash's comment :"I always see this mentioned (even being claimed back all the way to XP), yet I haven't seen any proof that it's there. AFAIK if you don't install the telemetry updates and you don't turn on CEIP, the OS does not phone home and spy on you."
 
ccman said:
I don't think it necessarily needs to be one button. I wouldn't mind if the feature(s) was buried under the Group Policy Object Editor for the local computer policy or had to be enabled with a manual registry entry. I wouldn't mind if it was restricted to Pro or if Microsoft released an Ultimate version that you had to purchase to unlock the ability to turn off every bit of telemetry you do not want turned on. It feels like a slap in the face that Microsoft will only allow Enterprise customers choice in privacy (and automatic data exfiltration, to be blunt, even if the data exfiltration is completely anonymous). Feels like disdain for their customers.
Click to expand...

I don't know about disdain. I mean, the product features that are enabled by the telemetry services are consumer-focused, just like the Home and Pro versions of Windows. So it matches up.
But all of this kind of ignores the core issue for Microsoft. The people that have an issue with this, as you kind of acknowledge when you offer up registry edits or GPOE settings, are going to be a very small minority of particularly savvy users. The question for MS is whether the cost of implementing the option (which would not be small considering the number of features that are tied into the data collection) is worth the benefit of appeasing that super minority (vocal as they are)? I can only imagine that it is not. Generally those features (Cortana, local searching, social integration etc) are all well received by pro-oriented and average joe-oriented reviews, and there will be a significant portion of those savvy users who will leave the tracking enabled in order to use the related features, further shrinking the number of people that would actively use those disabling options.

So it's not disdain, it's just a business call, and one I can't fault them for at the end of the day.

After all, it's not like pro users are going to leave Windows, and even if they do, it will be in such numbers as to not impact the normal immigration/emigration between OSes these days.
 
Hagrid said:
I don't need tiles, metro, this changed because MS thinks its good. I just need an OS that works for me. Windows 7 just worked great. I don't have many icons, rarely use search. I don't think its too much to ask for an install that is just like W7 but with the added capability(DX12, etc).
Click to expand...

Yes it is.
What you are asking is for MS to stop innovating on the user experience. In a competitive industry (well, kinda, considering MS' overwhelming dominance in the desktop OS market), that doesn't work for very long. Look at Direct X or IE. When MS got complacent and started to slow the rate of user-focused innovation, competition sprang up (the browser wars, Mantle, Vulcan).

It just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint to do what you are asking. Hell, even updating Windows 7 with DX12, cortana, etc makes no sense. It's a 6 year old OS, whose SP1 is over 4 years old at this point.

Not only that, but you say "added capability(DX12, etc)" but what is the etc? Cortana? Well you might want that, but what about the others in this thread that don't want tracking. WHat about the MS Store? Some might consider that to be "etc' and you would not. Where/how do you draw the line between Win7+ and Win10?
 
Modred189 said:
Yes it is.
What you are asking is for MS to stop innovating on the user experience. In a competitive industry (well, kinda, considering MS' overwhelming dominance in the desktop OS market), that doesn't work for very long. Look at Direct X or IE. When MS got complacent and started to slow the rate of user-focused innovation, competition sprang up (the browser wars, Mantle, Vulcan).

It just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint to do what you are asking. Hell, even updating Windows 7 with DX12, cortana, etc makes no sense. It's a 6 year old OS, whose SP1 is over 4 years old at this point.

Not only that, but you say "added capability(DX12, etc)" but what is the etc? Cortana? Well you might want that, but what about the others in this thread that don't want tracking. WHat about the MS Store? Some might consider that to be "etc' and you would not. Where/how do you draw the line between Win7+ and Win10?
Click to expand...
MS innovating? By stealing Fisher Price crap? From doing touch stuff on a desktop?
I have some beach front property here in AZ I will sell you cheap.....
 
Hagrid said:
MS innovating? By stealing Fisher Price crap? From doing touch stuff on a desktop?
I have some beach front property here in AZ I will sell you cheap.....
Click to expand...

Aw, don't be all butt- hurt that you don't LIKE the changes. Many, many do. Just because a company making changes to its product used by billions of people worldwide implements changes you don't think work into your workflow or allow for your aesthetic preferences doesn't mean they're wrong or the changes are bad.

On an operating system you haven't even used:
Hagrid said:
Unless they changed it from 8.1
Click to expand...
 
Modred189 said:
Aw, don't be all butt- hurt that you don't LIKE the changes. Many, many do. Just because a company making changes to its product used by billions of people worldwide implements changes you don't think work into your workflow or allow for your aesthetic preferences doesn't mean they're wrong or the changes are bad.

On an operating system you haven't even used:
Click to expand...
And all those billions like it? ;)


Not butt hurt. I just use 3rd party software to make their billion dollar software better. :)


When DX12 games come out, I will be looking for a new OS.
 
Modred189 said:
I don't know about disdain. I mean, the product features that are enabled by the telemetry services are consumer-focused, just like the Home and Pro versions of Windows. So it matches up.
But all of this kind of ignores the core issue for Microsoft. The people that have an issue with this, as you kind of acknowledge when you offer up registry edits or GPOE settings, are going to be a very small minority of particularly savvy users. The question for MS is whether the cost of implementing the option (which would not be small considering the number of features that are tied into the data collection) is worth the benefit of appeasing that super minority (vocal as they are)? I can only imagine that it is not. Generally those features (Cortana, local searching, social integration etc) are all well received by pro-oriented and average joe-oriented reviews, and there will be a significant portion of those savvy users who will leave the tracking enabled in order to use the related features, further shrinking the number of people that would actively use those disabling options.

So it's not disdain, it's just a business call, and one I can't fault them for at the end of the day.

After all, it's not like pro users are going to leave Windows, and even if they do, it will be in such numbers as to not impact the normal immigration/emigration between OSes these days.
Click to expand...
The cost of implementing something they are already going to implement or have already implemented for Enterprise? That's what I mean by disdain. The cost is sunk or will be sunk for Enterprise. Why not make more money and give it to customers who want to pay for Ultimate? In Windows 7, Ultimate had all the features of Enterprise.
 
Modred189 said:
The story was all over. After a quick google search-
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2978...dows-7-8-amidst-windows-10-privacy-storm.html
Click to expand...

Greggy_D said:
These links do not address zero2dash's comment :"I always see this mentioned (even being claimed back all the way to XP), yet I haven't seen any proof that it's there. AFAIK if you don't install the telemetry updates and you don't turn on CEIP, the OS does not phone home and spy on you."
Click to expand...

Greggy_D is spot on here.
I know about the telemetry updates; I won't install them. I have those (roughly 30 suspicious updates) hidden on my machines (until they re-release them either with the same KB or some new KB in an attempt to fool people once more and then I hide those as well).

I'm waiting for proof that 7 without those updates snoops on you like 10 does.
Again, I've seen people talk about MS being in bed with the NSA dating back to XP, and people hypothesizing that their OS all the way to XP spied on people; as of now, I haven't seen any proof to back up these claims. I don't think they do, but if I'm wrong, by all means someone prove me wrong. :) I don't consider myself a "head in the sand" guy, and despite MS making some sketchy decisions, I don't think their OS's prior to 10 have been as privacy-concerning as what we have now.
 
Last edited:
ccman said:
The cost of implementing something they are already going to implement or have already implemented for Enterprise? That's what I mean by disdain. The cost is sunk or will be sunk for Enterprise. Why not make more money and give it to customers who want to pay for Ultimate? In Windows 7, Ultimate had all the features of Enterprise.
Click to expand...

Because version-bloat was something MS wanted to fight with Win 10. Home and Pro and everything else is for non-home use. No Ultimate or Media Center versions etc that historically confused the average consumer. Again, not disdain, just a business decision.
 
Modred189 said:
Because version-bloat was something MS wanted to fight with Win 10. Home and Pro and everything else is for non-home use. No Ultimate or Media Center versions etc that historically confused the average consumer. Again, not disdain, just a business decision.
Click to expand...
I thought we were having a reasonable discussion. You deemed it necessary to resort to insulting me by claiming I am not using the word correctly when I am trying to express a difference of opinion. I am obviously wasting my time trying to have this discussion with you.
 
ccman said:
I thought we were having a reasonable discussion. You deemed it necessary to resort to insulting me by claiming I am not using the word correctly when I am trying to express a difference of opinion. I am obviously wasting my time trying to have this discussion with you.
Click to expand...

Sorry, man, it was meant to be tongue in cheek. :eek:
But nothing you've said indicates "disdain" as I understand the word. I mean, they clearly made a business decision as I outlined, but nothing indicates contempt or any other bad intent.
 
Modred189 said:
Sorry, man, it was meant to be tongue in cheek. :eek:
But nothing you've said indicates "disdain" as I understand the word. I mean, they clearly made a business decision as I outlined, but nothing indicates contempt or any other bad intent.
Click to expand...
Maybe I can better explain it in a way you can understand in this way. By Microsoft's justifications, taken at their word, they are not allowing telemetry to be completely turned off in order to gather more data in order to provide a better product for their customers. A minority of their customers do not appreciate the lack of choice and are turning to other methods to stop the exfiltration of telemetry data, be it rules on their firewall hardware, third party software from Microsoft exclusive software development companies (as far as I can tell, Windows is their bread and butter, not Linux or Mac OS X), or on older versions of Windows, disabling services or uninstalling updates. If Microsoft truly does need this information to support Windows, there is a group of users aided by a few companies that are doing their best to see that Microsoft does not get it. These two groups (users and third party software providers) are probably drawing in a few people who would have left the default on if there was a way to turn it off. (No "off" option is causing a hype that is drawing people in who probably wouldn't otherwise care trying to protect themselves from a perceived boogy/slender man) To me, in this limited and specific sense, I see a clear adversarial relationship. You may say Microsoft is above the fray and the adversarial relationship is completely on the minority of users and/or minority of third party developers, but it seems undeniable that this adversarial relationship exists and resulted from actions from Microsoft. My hope is Microsoft will eventually realize the situation they've placed Windows 10 in and will bring back a popular aspect they'd removed from the operating system, like they did with Windows 8 and the start button and Windows 10 and the start menu. I don't think Microsoft liked that people were turning to third party start menu restorers or replacers (including their own people, like Mark Russinovich, CTO of Windows Azure)

O&O ShutUp10: http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
Spybot Anti-Beacon for Windows: https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/
Remove telemetry updates - XVitality: https://gist.github.com/xvitaly/eafa75ed2cb79b3bd4e9
Emisoft on Windows 10 "Spying": http://blog.emsisoft.com/2015/09/02/the-truth-about-windows-10-spying-on-almost-everything-you-do/
(Just to name a few of the more well promoted efforts)

I'm sure you will reply with a link to that YouTube video or dictionary entry telling me that I do not know the meaning of the word adversarial under any meaning of the word adversarial that you are familiar with.
 
heatlesssun said:
It's a bit more complicated than this. Sure there are things that I think even people who like Windows 10 get that others don't like and much of it's fair. I understand the issue with not totally being able to disable telemetry. It's just that many are saying things about this subject with no proof. Criticize something for what it is, not for something that's simply made up.



There are things that many critics aren't using however. The universal apps for instance. There are a number of very good ones and some of the included ones are more than capable. Photos, Calendar, Maps and Alarms would probably be all that many would need for these functions, they are certainly better than what came with Windows 7, 7 for instance never came with in the box alarm/clock/stopwatch app. Cortana, that's something that plenty would find useful. But again, any of the mobile type stuff is rejected out of hand because it's not "desktop enough" or "desktops aren't phone and should leverage personal" data.

It's one thing to listen to unhappy customers. It's another not to make changes in a product to keep up with the times. The desktop is still important but we live in an age of mobile and apps and services. If this stuff doesn't have a place on the desktop then it's pretty clear that fewer and fewer consumers will use desktops. Concentrating solely on the desktop isn't enough for Windows today. Creating the "ultimate desktop" isn't going to get more people using desktop operating systems. Sure you want to keep the base happy but that's not enough for anything else than maintaining a market with no growth.

So it's balancing act. Lot's Windows users, lots of hardware and software and expectations. Maybe Windows is trying to do too many things for too many people. But I don't see that being any worse option than trying to do fewer things for fewer people in a market you already dominate.
Click to expand...
I would argue that "trying to do too many things for too many people" is something Microsoft has clearly set in policy to avoid. It is old news that Microsoft's explicitly stated policy through the leadership of Satya Nadella is "Mobile first, Cloud first." In other words, the desktop and stationary laptop experience in Windows 10 is an afterthought (secondary to "mobile first, cloud first").

Satya Nadella: Mobile First, Cloud First Press Briefing: https://news.microsoft.com/2014/03/27/satya-nadella-mobile-first-cloud-first-press-briefing/
 
I'm disappointed that after all these years Linux still remains a garbage OS. Had it developed basic usability for the masses MS would have taken a different path.
 
Deadjasper said:
I'm disappointed that after all these years Linux still remains a garbage OS. Had it developed basic usability for the masses MS would have taken a different path.
Click to expand...

Only thing garbage is noobs who can't use linux in it's present easy state.

Back to topic: Win10 is great, especially when you got it for free like me.
 
Modred189 said:
Yes it is.
What you are asking is for MS to stop innovating on the user experience. In a competitive industry (well, kinda, considering MS' overwhelming dominance in the desktop OS market), that doesn't work for very long. Look at Direct X or IE. When MS got complacent and started to slow the rate of user-focused innovation, competition sprang up (the browser wars, Mantle, Vulcan).

It just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint to do what you are asking. Hell, even updating Windows 7 with DX12, cortana, etc makes no sense. It's a 6 year old OS, whose SP1 is over 4 years old at this point.

Not only that, but you say "added capability(DX12, etc)" but what is the etc? Cortana? Well you might want that, but what about the others in this thread that don't want tracking. WHat about the MS Store? Some might consider that to be "etc' and you would not. Where/how do you draw the line between Win7+ and Win10?
Click to expand...

Wait, lolwalnut a touch OS for a non touch machine is innovation?

Please, put that there crack pipe down and slowly back away...
 
ccman said:
In other words, the desktop and stationary laptop experience in Windows 10 is an afterthought (secondary to "mobile first, cloud first").
Click to expand...

Virtual desktops, multiple monitor task bars and task view, improved mixed monitor DPI support, improved window management and windowing of modern apps are more than afterthoughts. Not saying these things are revolutionary or anything but how's the mixed monitor DPI support in Linux?
 
heatlesssun said:
Virtual desktops, multiple monitor task bars and task view, improved mixed monitor DPI support, improved window management and windowing of modern apps are more than afterthoughts. Not saying these things are revolutionary or anything but how's the mixed monitor DPI support in Linux?
Click to expand...
Words have meanings though, and when Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft says Microsoft's strategy is "mobile first, cloud first", that means something.

I did not mention Linux. I am not currently using Linux on any of the hardware I currently own, with the exception of my Chromebook (I wanted to see what ChromeOS was all about). Why you keep setting up the Linux strawman when we are talking about Microsoft and Windows 10, I will never understand.

Microsoft's biggest competition in the Windows space is not Linux. Not even close. Microsoft's biggest competition is Microsoft. Windows 10's biggest competition is previous versions of Windows. Windows 10 will not win the battle against the aggregate previous versions of Windows for many years to come.
 
Last edited:
heatlesssun said:
Virtual desktops, multiple monitor task bars and task view, improved mixed monitor DPI support, improved window management and windowing of modern apps are more than afterthoughts. Not saying these things are revolutionary or anything but how's the mixed monitor DPI support in Linux?
Click to expand...
When I say afterthought, I am being very specific. If mobile first, cloud first, then not mobile and not cloud must logically be after mobile and cloud. Or are you implying that Satya Nadella is lying or misspeaking in his "mobile first, cloud first" message?
 
ccman said:
Or are you implying that Satya Nadella is lying or misspeaking in his "mobile first, cloud first" message?
Click to expand...

This makes no sense given the huge investment in the Surface line and full desktop x86 Windows running on devices as thin and light as iOS and Android.

Mobile first by the Microsoft definition doesn't mean desktop last. The next Surface device is rumored by many to be an x86 desktop compatible phone. Microsoft is doing more to preserve the desktop than anyone. I know many will say that's nonsense but no one has anything close to losing in the desktop space as Microsoft. No one by miles.

But mobility is the name of the game. Large, hot, heavy devices have no appeal beyond a niche. If the desktop operating systems can't run on desirable mobile hardware few will care as mobile OSes incorporate more desktop OS features necessary for productivity.
 
Last edited:
heatlesssun said:
This makes no sense given the huge investment in the Surface line and full desktop x86 Windows running on devices as thin and light as iOS and Android.

Mobile first by the Microsoft definition doesn't mean desktop last. The next Surface device is rumored by many to be an x86 desktop compatible phone. Microsoft is doing more to preserve the desktop than anyone. I know many will say that's nonsense but no one has anything close to losing in the desktop space as Microsoft. No one by miles.

But mobility is the name of the game. Large, hot, heavy devices have no appeal beyond a niche. If the desktop operating systems can't run on desirable mobile hardware few will care as mobile OSes incorporate more desktop OS features necessary for productivity.
Click to expand...
I don't see how your response relates to the part of the post you quoted.

You're making the point for me. Microsoft views itself as competing with/in mobile.
 
ccman said:
I don't see how your response relates to the part of the post you quoted.

You're making the point for me. Microsoft views itself as competing with/in mobile.
Click to expand...

Mobile devices that are desktop compatible. Who else makes has an OS that runs on tablets that are desktop compatible? And currently, these devices are the fastest growing computing devices in the market. You're making the false assumption that mobile means no desktop. Full Windows desktop devices are smaller, lighter and cheaper than ever.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
windows 10 is not designed from a ui p o v for non touch hardware...
Click to expand...

Bullshit. I have zero issues using Windows 10 on my desktop at home, at work and many other computers. It is designed for the desktop non touch hardware as well as touch hardware. Stop with the bullshit already, you opinion is not relevant when facts are concerned.
 
heatlesssun said:
Mobile devices that are desktop compatible. Who else makes has an OS that runs on tablets that are desktop compatible? And currently, these devices are the fastest growing computing devices in the market. You're making the false assumption that mobile means no desktop. Full Windows desktop devices are smaller, lighter and cheaper than ever.
Click to expand...
I did not say "no desktop." I did not say "desktop last." Quit putting words in my mouth then arguing with the words you put in my mouth.
 
He likes to mislead.
I see him as the voice of Microsoft and as such worth nothing.
 
ccman said:
I did not say "no desktop." I did not say "desktop last." Quit putting words in my mouth then arguing with the words you put in my mouth.
Click to expand...

Then what are you saying? All I was saying is that mobile first means at least in part that the desktop is more mobile than ever. That's the whole premise of the current Surface line.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
windows 10 is not designed from a ui p o v for non touch hardware...
Click to expand...

127095609349.jpg


Seriously dude? Have you even USED Windows 10?


I run 4 screens, a 48 inch TV, a 40" 4K monitor and two 1080p screens in portrait. I primarily use the PC for productivity/artwork and casual browsing, gaming as well. All of this on W10.

Windows 10 is GREAT for desktop use.
 
The only thing misleading is ignoring the fact that full desktop Windows runs on the smallest, lightest and most portable devices ever and somehow thinking that's ignoring the desktop.
 
KazeoHin said:
I run 4 screens, a 48 inch TV, a 40" 4K monitor and two 1080p screens in portrait. I primarily use the PC for productivity/artwork and casual browsing, gaming as well. All of this on W10.
Click to expand...

It's amazing how people will talk about how Windows 10 isn't a desktop OS and yet skip over a CRITICAL part of what makes it a better desktop OS than any prior version of Windows?
 
Directing the conversation to something unrelated is typical of someone who has no valid contribution.
The person doing it is misleading.
 
Windows 10 works well UI wise on the desktop. Mobile first doesn't mean no desktop. Contribute the conversation with more technical specifics and less personal nonsense.
 
People dont like Windows 10.
It looks ugly and leaks information.
 
This doesn't apply to all people who use Windows 10. Ugly? Subjective. Leaks information, at the very least personal or critical information with no way to shut it down? Unproven.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top