Vulkan Will Support Multiple GPUs Only in Windows 10

BulletDust said:
mGPU is a continuation of CF/SLI, as both in their current form are fairly flawed. Technically speaking this should be a good thing for multiple GPU users, as CF/SLI in it's current form, relying purely on driver support, is beginning to show it's age.

Poor ports of popular games is a bigger issue that an open, cross platform API like Vulkan can hopefully resolve. Improve the porting of games across platforms and hopefully multi GPU setups won't be as necessary.
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The big mistake here is giving the dev the choice to enable it. Earlier versions DX allowed it to be more of a straight forward, universal process.
Past games that didn't officially support it still scaled between 20-50% because of DX, now it's nearly -10% on many cases with DX12 and Vulkan.

You lose FPS with 1080Ti in SLI when playing Doom. I can't be excited about PC gaming when things like this are happening.
It's seems that UWP/DX12/Vulkan is preventing the TWIMTBP and AMD Evolved marketing teams to pay for driver optimization.

Tomb Raider is a good example if the dev embraces DX12 mGPU. Over 90% scaling.
 
tetris42 said:
Now you know how people who care about quality antialiasing have felt for the past 15 years or so. At least now it's starting to be less relevant with high pixel counts.
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Yep, but it's even more devastating when devs can control your hardware choices just by not supporting something that well within their ability.
 
Hmmm. Not really sure what people are complaining about here. Newer technology isn't supported on an older OS. Seriously, that's an news flash? I get the hate around 10 tends make things sometimes seem diabolical rather than just a natural and common occurrence in technology.

I had kind of been out PC gaming for a few years until I upgraded to this sig rig last summer. I'm having a fucking blast gaming with the thing. Sure there are problems but there's just so much out there one can do with this kind of hardware, just a blast.
 
Lol. So do you work at microsoft?
heatlesssun said:
Hmmm. Not really sure what people are complaining about here. Newer technology isn't supported on an older OS. Seriously, that's an news flash? I get the hate around 10 tends make things sometimes seem diabolical rather than just a natural and common occurrence in technology.

I had kind of been out PC gaming for a few years until I upgraded to this sig rig last summer. I'm having a fucking blast gaming with the thing. Sure there are problems but there's just so much out there one can do with this kind of hardware, just a blast.
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Fuck you microsoft and vulkan for selling out.
I'm not going to W10 I'd much sooner to go linux if it was a regular gaming thing. Fuck off you filthy, good for nothing bumnugget cunts.
 
bobdabilder said:
Right.....
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Sure there are legitimate issues in Windows 10, but this seems like a bunch of fake outrage. How many people complaining about this even use multiple GPUs? And are on 7 or 8.1? This API is new, by the time many games come out that use it, we'll be close to the end of 7 extended support anyway.
 
Windows 10 is the issue.
heatlesssun said:
Sure there are legitimate issues in Windows 10, but this seems like a bunch of fake outrage. How many people complaining about this even use multiple GPUs? And are on 7 or 8.1? This API is new, by the time many games come out that use it, we'll be close to the end of 7 extended support anyway.
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bobdabilder said:
Lol. So do you work at microsoft?
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He's not wrong. It's foolish to demand that old OSes get support for modern technology. Windows 10 handles hardware and drivers completely differently than 7 or 8. Money, manpower, and time are not unlimited resources for developers, they have to spend them where the developer feels they are best used. It's not like they can just magically make it work on older OSes with the push of a button, it doesn't work like that.
 
"Wrong" is subjective. It boils down to the poor decisions ms keeps making as well as those that defend those decisions. I'm acutely aware of how software development works.
Derangel said:
He's not wrong. It's foolish to demand that old OSes get support for modern technology. Windows 10 handles hardware and drivers completely differently than 7 or 8. Money, manpower, and time are not unlimited resources for developers, they have to spend them where the developer feels they are best used. It's not like they can just magically make it work on older OSes with the push of a button, it doesn't work like that.
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bobdabilder said:
"Wrong" is subjective. It boils down to the poor decisions ms keeps making as well as those that defend those decisions. I'm acutely aware of how software development works.
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No, this isn't the defense of any decision. Technology ages out, period. Windows 7 is now 8 years old, it's never going to receive major feature enhancements from here on, like tons of other technology that becomes obsolete.
 
bobdabilder said:
"Wrong" is subjective. It boils down to the poor decisions ms keeps making as well as those that defend those decisions. I'm acutely aware of how software development works.
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MS has made some incredibly bad and incredibly stupid decisions, but this specifically is not among them. This specific situation is just an example of the natural advancement and development of technology. Like or dislike Windows 10 it is the new version of Windows and there is no reason for MS to spend money adding support for new technology or new APIs to older versions. Outside of XP and it's crap that's the way it's always been.
 
The common denominator in multiple bouts of outrage is w10. Nothing supposed about it.
heatlesssun said:
Actually the issue is supposed outrage over Windows 7 and 8.x not supporting a new driver model for what is pretty esoteric hardware to begin with.
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bobdabilder said:
The common denominator in multiple bouts of outrage is w10. Nothing supposed about it.
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This only effects people using multiple GPU setups, on the new side, running Windows 7 or 8.1. With games that don't even exist yet. That's the common denominator here.
 
WorldExclusive said:
The big mistake here is giving the dev the choice to enable it. Earlier versions DX allowed it to be more of a straight forward, universal process.
Past games that didn't officially support it still scaled between 20-50% because of DX, now it's nearly -10% on many cases with DX12 and Vulkan.

You lose FPS with 1080Ti in SLI when playing Doom. I can't be excited about PC gaming when things like this are happening.
It's seems that UWP/DX12/Vulkan is preventing the TWIMTBP and AMD Evolved marketing teams to pay for driver optimization.

Tomb Raider is a good example if the dev embraces DX12 mGPU. Over 90% scaling.
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Past games that didn't support SLI or CF didn't scale at all, they ran purely on one card, the other card was no more than a very expensive space heater. Multi GPU has been dying for quite some time, at present the developer has to work with NV or AMD to create an SLI profile, with mGPU the developer can implement multi GPU far easier via the API - I fail to see why this is a bad thing?

While I'm pretty much done with multi GPU and it's associated issues, the argument here isn't specifically about multi GPU and it's implementation, it's about Windows 7 and the fact that it's become obsolete - Which is a shame, but time goes on.
 
heatlesssun said:
Actually the issue is supposed outrage over Windows 7 and 8.x not supporting a new driver model for what is pretty esoteric hardware to begin with.
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If Windows 10 didn't have mandatory updating, spyware, ads, remove group policies on a whim, and treat users as rolling beta testers in general, then nobody would get that upset about a lack of support for 7 or 8, because there wouldn't be many qualms with switching to 10. Windows 10 IS the issue.
 
tetris42 said:
If Windows 10 didn't have mandatory updating, spyware, ads, remove group policies on a whim, and treat users as rolling beta testers in general, then nobody would get that upset about a lack of support for 7 or 8, because there wouldn't be many qualms with switching to 10. Windows 10 IS the issue.
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This is very true, Microsoft's direction is questionable and the issues surrounding Windows 10 are numerous. However there is an upside, as much as people want to deny it. Linux supports Vulkan, there is no doubt it will support mGPU and the OS is free. You can run Windows 7 to do whatever you want to use it for, when you want to run mGPU fire up the Linux partition and you're good to go.

It's not a total loss and once again highlights the benefits of an open API not tied to the whim of Microsoft.
 
tetris42 said:
If Windows 10 didn't have mandatory updating, spyware, ads, remove group policies on a whim, and treat users as rolling beta testers in general, then nobody would get that upset about a lack of support for 7 or 8, because there wouldn't be many qualms with switching to 10. Windows 10 IS the issue.
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Who here complaining about this has at least of pair of 980 Tis running under Windows 7 or 8.1? Because by the time any games come out supporting, there's going to faster single cards anyway. And it'll much closer to the end of support for Windows 7. This is fake rage because the people complaining about it don't have the hardware and indeed constantly talk about how multiple GPUs are pointless anyway.
 
heatlesssun said:
Who here complaining about this has at least of pair of 980 Tis running under Windows 7 or 8.1? Because by the time any games come out supporting, there's going to faster single cards anyway. And it'll much closer to the end of support for Windows 7. This is fake rage because the people complaining about it don't have the hardware and indeed constantly talk about how multiple GPUs are pointless anyway.
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Or hey, maybe they're thinking ahead for more than 6 months, a trait common of people who have rejected Windows 10. I think the outrage comes from realizing if they're gamers AND care about being in control their own system, they're going to get fucked, it's just a matter of when. This is just one sign of things to come.
 
tetris42 said:
Or hey, maybe they're thinking ahead for more than 6 months, a trait common of people who have rejected Windows 10.
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This just doesn't make a ton of sense. Why do you think I'm running Windows 10 on my sig rig? Because I know that Windows 7 is 8 years old and near the end of support. Virtually any new PC game, be it Vulkan, DX 9-12, OGL, VR, mGPU support, it's going to be Windows 10 compatible.

tetris42 said:
I think the outrage comes from realizing if they're gamers AND care about being in control their own system, they're going to get fucked, it's just a matter of when. This is just one sign of things to come.
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Fucked how exactly? I get people don't like Windows 10 for various reasons but for gaming on high end hardware, it kicks ass.
 
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heatlesssun said:
My reasoning is that I'm having a blast with this sig rig and few problems. If there is an OS out there that can do better at gaming on this kind of hardware than Windows 10 I'd love to know.
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there is nothing really i'm gonna use the word exotic about your computer.

so i can't tell what issues you'd have with any other windows OS.
 
Master_shake_ said:
there is nothing really i'm gonna use the word exotic about your computer.

so i can't tell what issues you'd have with any other windows OS.
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Fair enough. It's just that when someone spends this kind of money, preaching is pointless. Show me some data, that's all anyone would ask. Show me some metrics of Windows 7, 8.x and Linux distros across the things I do. For all of the Windows 10 haters out there, maybe you should tell Kyle and company to do testing of all of the latest things they do on something other than Windows 10. I've not seen any of the popular hardware sites test the 1080 Ti on Windows 7 or 8.x. Phronix did some testing under Ubuntu 17.04 but the only game that's remotely new was Deus Ex MD.

So call me a fanboy all you want. I'm more than happy to take the hit IF YOU HAVE SOME DATA.
 
heatlesssun said:
Fair enough. It's just that when someone spends this kind of money, preaching is pointless. Show me some data, that's all anyone would ask. Show me some metrics of Windows 7, 8.x and Linux distros across the things I do. For all of the Windows 10 haters out there, maybe you should tell Kyle and company to do testing of all of the latest things they do on something other than Windows 10. I've not seen any of the popular hardware sites test the 1080 Ti on Windows 7 or 8.x. Phronix did some testing under Ubuntu 17.04 but the only game that's remotely new was Deus Ex MD.

So call me a fanboy all you want. I'm more than happy to take the hit IF YOU HAVE SOME DATA.
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You're waaaay beyond fanboi status, you're downright deranged.
 
heatless I guess you're winning the conversation since they are attacking you and not the topic at hand...

To my knowledge there's nothing that comes close to W10 and I haven't had a single issue with it.
 
heatlesssun said:
You don't play games on this kind of hardware. Why don't you talk to all of the fanboys that reviewed the GTX 1080 Ti ONLY under Windows 10.
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Since when does the world evolve around reviewers? They're no more than everyday users with an opinion and a bench marking setup, that makes them no more important than anyone else out there!

Kyle is a PC hardware enthusiast that started a site originally based primarily around overclocking at a pretty fortunate time, that could have been any one of us! That doesn't make his opinion the be all and end all and a great many people out there prefer Windows 7 and a 1080Ti is supported just fine under Windows 7 - DX12 is dead in the water with the exception of a couple of titles on the Windows store, which no one really likes using, so many just want to stick to Windows 7.

I agree, Windows 7 is now outdated from a mGPU perspective and the fact it will not support it is not necessarily the fault of MS, but to claim that the latest hardware needs Windows 10 is just flat out lunacy! The fact that you run Windows 10 does not make you superior to these users.
 
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BulletDust said:
Since when does the world evolve around reviewers?
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They are an important line of first hand information that influence a lot of buying decisions. Every long time reviewer of the 1080 Ti said it was great part, hands down, even Phronix. In terms of actual use in modern games, all of those reviewers were using Windows 10. This stuff costs a lot of money. I like 3rd party confirmation, like most, that the money spent will meet my expectations.

BulletDust said:
Kyle is a PC hardware enthusiast that started a site originally based primarily around overclocking at a pretty fortunate time, that could have been any one of us! That doesn't make his opinion the be all and end all and a great many people out there prefer Windows 7 and a 1080Ti is supported just fine under Windows 7 - DX12 is dead in the water with the exception of a couple of titles on the Windows store, which no one really likes using, so many just want to stick to Windows 7.
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These guys have done this professionally for a long time. You can say what you want but people around here at least are going to listen to them a lot more than either of us. I certainly do. And there are a number of games that support DX 12, some better than others. mGPU is at least working in some games currently under DX 12, ROTR and Sniper Elite 4 are good examples, both available on Steam. Y

BulletDust said:
The fact that you run Windows 10 does not make you superior to these users.
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Huh? All I wanted to know is where are Windows 7 and 8.1 users using this kind of hardware? Who in this thread is running a modern multiple GPU setup under Windows 7 or 8.1? If you're not then this issue doesn't effect you. Like the overwhelming majority of gamers who don't run this kind of stuff. It's one thing to complain about privacy issues in Windows 10. But blaming Windows 10 for supporting brand new APIs that obsolete OSes don't? That's what I'd call stupid.
 
heatlesssun said:
They are an important line of first hand information that influence a lot of buying decisions. Every long time reviewer of the 1080 Ti said it was great part, hands down, even Phronix. In terms of actual use in modern games, all of those reviewers were using Windows 10. This stuff costs a lot of money. I like 3rd party confirmation, like most, that the money spent will meet my expectations.
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Meh, not interested.

heatlesssun said:
These guys have done this professionally for a long time. You can say what you want but people around here at least are going to listen to them a lot more than either of us. I certainly do. And there are a number of games that support DX 12, some better than others. mGPU is at least working in some games currently under DX 12, ROTR and Sniper Elite 4 are good examples, both available on Steam. Y
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Yeah, we all know you love Kyle. Not interested. SLI DX12 vs SLI DX11 isn't really showing any FPS advantage that I'd claim to be game changing, I'm more interested in seeing what mixed GPU setups are capable of.

heatlesssun said:
Huh? All I wanted to know is where are Windows 7 and 8.1 users using this kind of hardware? Who in this thread is running a modern multiple GPU setup under Windows 7 or 8.1? If you're not then this issue doesn't effect you. Like the overwhelming majority of gamers who don't run this kind of stuff. It's one thing to complain about privacy issues in Windows 10. But blaming Windows 10 for supporting brand new APIs that obsolete OSes don't? That's what I'd call stupid.
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And here we are, full circle again.

I never disputed that Windows 7 should support mGPU and I never stated that was in any way the fault of MS, obsolescence is a part of life and there's no reason why Windows 7 should support newer API's when it's quite obvious the underlying architecture is incapable of fully doing so. The issue here is that, once again, you're doing the helicopter with your little ewang and trying to make the argument about the 1080Ti based around your idea that Windows 10 is absolutely needed in order to gain any benefits out of a 1080Ti - This is ridiculous!

- Windows 7 will not support the handful of titles running DX12, of course this is of no major concern as most gamers don't really appear to care for DX12 at this stage and you will without a doubt still see great performance improvements upgrading to a 1080Ti under DX11, to state otherwise is flat out incorrect.
- Windows 7 will not support mGPU due to the fact that the underlying architecture of an OS that is now fairly old simply cannot support it, however Vulkan is still supported under Windows 7 and running a single card, which at this stage offers less in the way of issues anyway, you will see great gains running a 1080 Ti.
- Many people do not like Windows 10, they refuse to accept the direction MS is headed. This is a fairly unique scenario in the years of Microsoft dominance and if people want to stick with Windows 7 for as long as possible that doesn't make you any more superior to them.
- I see no reason why users of Windows 7 would not upgrade to a 1080Ti for the reasons listed above, your need to see statistical figures supporting this claim is not only odd, but largely pointless. Who cares when the card is obviously supported under Windows 7 and offers substantial performance improvements.
 
BulletDust said:
- Windows 7 will not support the handful of titles running DX12, of course this is of no major concern as most gamers don't really appear to care for DX12 at this stage and you will without a doubt still see great performance improvements upgrading to a 1080Ti under DX11, to state otherwise is flat out incorrect.
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But isn't the point of this thread that only the only version of Windows that will receive mGPU is Windows 10? A every esoteric technology that apparently no one that in this thread outraged by this uses currently?

Fake rage 101.
 
heatlesssun said:
But isn't the point of this thread that only the only version of Windows that will receive mGPU is Windows 10? A every esoteric technology that apparently no one that in this thread outraged by this uses currently?

Fake rage 101.
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What?!

This is simply retarded, fake rage!

Discussion over, go yell at the wall.
 
heatlesssun said:
This just doesn't make a ton of sense. Why do you think I'm running Windows 10 on my sig rig? Because I know that Windows 7 is 8 years old and near the end of support. Virtually any new PC game, be it Vulkan, DX 9-12, OGL, VR, mGPU support, it's going to be Windows 10 compatible.

Fucked how exactly? I get people don't like Windows 10 for various reasons but for gaming on high end hardware, it kicks ass.
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See, you don't get it. Say there's an update that happens to cause a major problem with your system in particular and it never gets patched up (something I've personally seen on Windows 7). What's your backup plan? Another user, Dekoth-E I believe, depended on group policies on his system. Now they're gone. What if some feature you use disappears or is broken in an update and DOESN'T GET FIXED? As far as I can tell, it's not possible to have a backup plan for this scenario on Windows 10. That's a massive vulnerability to me and I'm not going to touch any OS where I can't control when and if it's modified. I do too much on my system to let Microsoft tinker with mine whenever they feel like.

By saying people rejecting Windows 10 are thinking longer term, anyone on Windows 7 / 8 / Linux can guarantee how their computer will behave in the future if they want. True, some newer software and eventually hardware may not get proper support, but if you have things you need to do TODAY or have software from the past you depend on, you're set.

With Windows 10, NO ONE can give ANY guarantee how it's going to behave in 5, 10 years. Microsoft is constantly modifying it. I like things nice and stable, not perpetual betas. If what happens to your system is not of paramount concern and you can afford for it to have unforeseen issues, then sure, Windows 10 is very functional. If you DEPEND on your system to function the way you're accustomed to however, it's a nightmare.
 
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Presbytier said:
Vulkan and DX12 puts the burden on mgpu to the game or software developer and i just don't see game developers coding for mgpu on their own.
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Since there is no market for MGPU, there is 0 incentive for a dev to put a single dollar into integrating MGPU into their game. Unless a mainstream console decides to go cheap and use hi yield, low cost low level gpus, instead of a standard low-midrange option, This isn't going to change. For Nvidia, SLI is just part of their drivers and should be supported as much as they have control over, short of paying off studios to implement it, however, on the studio, they DGAF about it.
 
tetris42 said:
With Windows 10, NO ONE can give ANY guarantee how it's going to behave in 5, 10 years.
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Change is a part of life. Either deal with it or... hell, I don't know.

tetris42 said:
Microsoft is constantly modifying it.
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That's because the software industry as a whole, not just Microsoft, has moved to a rapid deployment process in which things change fast instead of every ten years.

tetris42 said:
I like things nice and stable, not perpetual betas.
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Again, the software industry as a whole has moved to this kind of deployment strategy. Apple does it, Google does it, Mozilla does it, they all do it.

See Waterfall Development and Agile Development to see what I mean. And then we have the comparison between the two development methods.
 
trparky said:
Change is a part of life. Either deal with it or... hell, I don't know.


That's because the software industry as a whole, not just Microsoft, has moved to a rapid deployment process in which things change fast instead of every ten years.


Again, the software industry as a whole has moved to this kind of deployment strategy. Apple does it, Google does it, Mozilla does it, they all do it..
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I don't buy the "agile" excuse in 10's case, because who cares what's trendy Microsoft isn't able make the software better or in any way innovative because of it. Everything has been a regression in Windows 10, a trail of botched patches and bugs getting through to GA releases every step of the way. You can't teach an old bureaucratic, dinosaur of a developer new agile tricks. All they've apparently done is used in as an excuse to lay off QA.

Bottom line just because agile is trendy, does not create in the consumer a sense of obligation to tolerate a shittier product while MS tries to figure out how to me-too in yet another industry trend.
 
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