Ubi: we don't see us investing hugely in a mouse and keyboard setup for Ass Creed 3

D

defiant007

2[H]4U
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Feb 27, 2006
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Oh boy.....

http://au.pc.gamespy.com/pc/assassins-creed-2012/1221571p1.html

Sadly the PC version won't get much special treatment, he admitted: "We're definitely supporting PC, we love PC, but I think it'll be PC with a controller. I don't see us investing hugely in a mouse and keyboard setup. I think if you want to play on PC and you want to play Assassin's Creed, you have a controller." So status quo for the series there, though I personally found the previous games to be playable with mouse and keyboard.
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I take that as code for "we cannot be fucked tailoring the game to suit the PC platform, so either accept that you are getting a straight up port or fuck off." Strange attitude to take when all the previous games more than adequately implemented a decent control scheme for k/m.
 
Sad as that may be, I use a wireless 360 controller for games like that. I can't say that I'm surprised by Ubisoft's general attitude towards PC gamers. They don't have a great track record with game releases that recognize the PC as a flagship gaming platform.
 
Ryan711 said:
That's the kind of game better played with a controller anyway.
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I disagree, keyboard and mouse provide me with far more accurate controls than a gamepad for these kinds of games.

The only time I use a gamepad is when the developer has absolutely fucked up the keyboard/mouse controls.
 
As long as it isn't just that POS xbox controller, and the keyboard mouse is still optional. I tried with 2 to play with the controller, but it was terrible so I went back the the keyboard and mouse. The control scheme wasn't great, and i'd played the first with the keyboard.
 
Well, I cannot imagine it will control worse than it already does with a KB+M. They obviously have a system in place for that, I can't imagine they won't implement the same setup. Likely they just aren't going to do anything to further optimize it.

Makes no matter to me, I couldn't image playing a game like this without a controller. Even if it's worse, this will effect like... 5 people.
 
Viper87227 said:
Well, I cannot imagine it will control worse than it already does with a KB+M. They obviously have a system in place for that, I can't imagine they won't implement the same setup. Likely they just aren't going to do anything to further optimize it.
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That's clearly not what he is saying, otherwise he would have used words to the effect of "the game will use the same keyboard/mouse layout as previous games" as opposed to "don't bother playing this game without a gamepad".

Seeing as AC3 has been rebuilt from the ground up as opposed to reusing previous engines or assets, I wouldn't be surprised if the control scheme is being newly developed.

Viper87227 said:
Makes no matter to me, I couldn't image playing a game like this without a controller. Even if it's worse, this will effect like... 5 people.
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I am sure you have relied upon some scientifically acceptable methodology to quantify that number :rolleyes:

I guess myself and my 2 siblings comprise 60% of the people possibly affected, I wonder who the remaining 40% are :eek:
 
defiant007 said:
That's clearly not what he is saying, otherwise he would have used words to the effect of "the game will use the same keyboard/mouse layout as previous games" as opposed to "don't bother playing this game without a gamepad".

Seeing as AC3 has been rebuilt from the ground up as opposed to reusing previous engines or assets, I wouldn't be surprised if the control scheme is being newly developed.
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I suppose you're correct, with new abilities and whatnot comes the need for new controls. Even if it's a bit cumbersome, I can't imagine it being the default choice for many anyways.


defiant007 said:
I am sure you have relied upon some scientifically acceptable methodology to quantify that number :rolleyes:

I guess myself and my 2 siblings comprise 60% of the people possibly affected, I wonder who the remaining 40% are :eek:
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Got any cousins? :D
 
I've kicked ass with a KBM in these since AC2 but why is this a surprise to anyone? Ubisoft doesn't give a flyin' fig about the PC...hell, I'm surprised the game is even coming to the PC at all if we get down to it.

If I'm more "forced" to use a controller it's not going to stop me if the rest of the game kicks ass. I'm a pretty big fan of the series so it's going to take a lot for me to not buy AC3.
 
Invest? I just worked on my DirectInput C++ class yesterday and it was about 120 lines long. With full support for KB+M, with buffered input and instant response (otherwise known as mouse smoothing). Plus maybe about 30 lines to implement that class.

Maybe I should just email it to them. But for some reason, I'm sure they already have a class written, and they can just copy/paste. Not sure how this is a huge investment. But I guess if they can't write 150 lines of code for PC users, they shouldn't get more than $150 from sales (total.)
 
How strange. I also planned not to invest at all in a Ubisoft game. It's like they read my mind.
 
piscian18 said:
How strange. I also planned not to invest at all in a Ubisoft game. It's like they read my mind.
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Amen. I laugh whenever people get indignant about Ubisoft these days. That ship sailed a long time ago.
 
if you're upset about this you've obviously never played AC with a 360 controller. i would hate playing on mouse and keyboard.
 
andrewbub said:
if you're upset about this you've obviously never played AC with a 360 controller. i would hate playing on mouse and keyboard.
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Bingo. I wonder why they even bother with a PC release at all anymore; the game is a damn sight harder with KB+M.
 
andrewbub said:
if you're upset about this you've obviously never played AC with a 360 controller. i would hate playing on mouse and keyboard.
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The first AC definitely was more of a chore to play with KBM vs the successive games.
 
I've played the other games on KB&M and they were just fine. Though with AC I could see using a controller being just as easy.

Frankly, though, I didn't expect much from Ubisoft anyway. But it's a disturbing trend when they can't even be arsed with making KB&M a viable control option when it was in every other game in the series.

What next? "Oh, we didn't think you needed graphics options. The game is locked at 1280x720 and 30 FPS. That's all you really need!"
 
Must just be a matter of personal preference cause I can't think of a single game that I can control better with a controller. I was a console-only gamer thru most of the 90's and thought I'd never get used to a KBM setup. Now that I am, I can't play for shit when I try them with a controller.

This won't be a big loss to me as I didn't really care much for the first one and didn't even finish the second. Ubisoft has thumbed its nose at PC gamers before like the required internet connection in order to okay AC2
 
MacLeod said:
Must just be a matter of personal preference cause I can't think of a single game that I can control better with a controller. I was a console-only gamer thru most of the 90's and thought I'd never get used to a KBM setup. Now that I am, I can't play for shit when I try them with a controller.

This won't be a big loss to me as I didn't really care much for the first one and didn't even finish the second. Ubisoft has thumbed its nose at PC gamers before like the required internet connection in order to okay AC2
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Kingdoms of Amalur, Dead Island (especially with that stupid radial menu and no hotkeys). Though I'm sure I could find someone who will claim it's "easier with the KB/M," or whatever. Just my experience with it (and I grew up playing FPS games with only a KB/M.... hell, I still suck at FPS with the controller).
 
jeremyshaw said:
Kingdoms of Amalur, Dead Island (especially with that stupid radial menu and no hotkeys). Though I'm sure I could find someone who will claim it's "easier with the KB/M," or whatever. Just my experience with it (and I grew up playing FPS games with only a KB/M.... hell, I still suck at FPS with the controller).
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Yup, that would be me. I've played those games just fine and dandy with KBM. I don't know if I'd say "easier" just preference.

Or put another way: I didn't have anything going on with KBM that pushed me to the controller for either of those games.

Regardless of controls: The radial menu in Dead Island sucks.
 
lol Ubishaft. I can't believe PC gamers support their company, they flat out don't care for PC games so why bother?
 
Meh, doesn't bother me. 3rd person melee-centered action/adventure games are better with a controller anyway, that's why I bought a 360 controller even though I don't own a 360.

Ubisoft piss me off far more with their DRM than this.
 
No problem with them supporting only a controller.
Third person games always sucked with keyboard and mouse anyway. Controller is way better to play them.
 
I guess, given the content and genre of this game, the KB&M thing is not a big deal. What bothers me is wondering what precedent this will set for future titles.

Plus, if for some reason you didn't have a 360 controller, they are basically forcing you to buy one in order to play the game.

In my mind it is just one (albiet small) step in the direction of fully giving PC gamers the finger and releasing only direct console ports.
 
Hopefully they will spend a good couple million making their DRM scheme more retarded so they don't have funds to properly port it over. I prefer my games half assed and very restrictive.
 
jeremyshaw said:
Kingdoms of Amalur, Dead Island (especially with that stupid radial menu and no hotkeys). Though I'm sure I could find someone who will claim it's "easier with the KB/M," or whatever. Just my experience with it (and I grew up playing FPS games with only a KB/M.... hell, I still suck at FPS with the controller).
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My problem with a controller is simple: you cannot control the camera properly. This manifests as shit aiming in FPS games and so it really hurts there, but it is present in all other games as well. You have to depend on a hard-coded camera that shows you what the developers think you should see. I don't like that. Through controlling the camera (your frame of reference) all other movement and actions flow naturally.

I liked being able to pinpoint exactly what I wanted to grapple onto in Arkham City by looking up. In the console version, you just sort of hit the grapple button and hope because the pacing is quite fast and accurate camera movements are a hassle with an analog stick. You often have trouble seeing behind you in the combat which makes it easy to take a punch in the back because you can't pan the camera around easily.

In the Assassin's Creed games, it manifests as not behind able to look around corners until you move around them. When you're running up a roof, you can't see over to the other side because the camera is directly behind you with no downward angle. The jumping is overly automated to account for the lack of precision, which results in clumsy and inaccurate jumping control.

Complete control of the camera is what makes the KBM control scheme better than a controller. I can instantly look anywhere at anytime with no effort whatsoever and make very precise directional movements and actions. I don't really understand what is better about a controller.

You give up an infinite amount of precision in favor of a more concise, hand-held system. Why is this good in Assassin's Creed? No one ever articulates this beyond saying "controller is better". That is not an argument, it's a statement.
 
krameriffic said:
Why is this good in Assassin's Creed? No one ever articulates this beyond saying "controller is better". That is not an argument, it's a statement.
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It allows you to control the camera and the character simultaneously with continuous analog input rather than sudden discrete button presses on the keyboard while still giving good access to 4 buttons. This continuous analog control of both camera and character allow you to point your character in a general direction to make broad sweeping melee attacks or controlling the direction of the character while still allowing some freedom of the camera to monitor different angles.

The controller buttons then offer 4 actions which can easily be timed and sequenced (I dunno about you, but trying to do combos and blocking and jumping and dodging I find easier to do on the 4 controller buttons + triggers than either jumping between my 2 main mouse buttons and the keyboard or using the awkward sidebuttons on the mouse).

The game that drove me to buy a controller was actually Star Wars Force Unleashed. To independantly control my character with one analog stick, getting him pointed at the correct enemy, while using the other analog stick to keep the camera in a good position and then be able to link dodge/fast attack/slow attack/block/jump to attack effectively through the controller buttons was just vastly easier than using a mouse and keyboard. I started playing the game on medium with mouse + keyboard and was getting stuck up in certain tough areas where it didn't offer me the combined mobility and fast actions to get myself out of danger while still positioning myself to attack and block. As soon as I started using a controller, the game got so much easier AND felt more natural such that I could boost the difficulty to hard and still get through it more easily.

Assassin's Creed is the sort of game I feel is better with a controller, but not unplayable by any measure with a KB+M. Some other third person melee games like TFU and Ninja Gaiden are vastly easier with a controller.

Space Marine was one game which initially frustrated me because the melee felt better with a controller, but the shooting was faster and more accurate with a KB+M. You end up going KB+M because there are enough shooting sections that it gives you the edge, or online where melee is only a small part of combat and you need to be able to aim accurate and fast, KB+M is the way to go. But even there, the melee segments were more controllable with a controller than a KB+M (I swapped back and forth a bit until settling on the KB+M).
 
Game sucks with a KB / Mouse anyways. Same thing applies to Batman AC, or any other third person game really (other then like DA:O).

Driving Games and third person adventure games are meant to be played with a controller. I can see some people preferring a mouse and keyboard but that's probably more of a comfort thing. If they took the time to acclimate to the controller for these type of games they might actually enjoy them more. I know I've tried giving KB/M a fair shot in AC and Batman and it was just bleh.

Now if I'm playing a shooter or an RTS, mouse all day son~.

Just my two cents. :)
 
M/KB worked quite nicely for Arkham Asylum IMO. I think the point is that having less options is very rarely a good thing and Ubi needs to demonstrate that this decision was made to make the pad controls even better rather than just a lazy attitude towards their PC fans. Theoretically anyway. They don't need to do anything because people will bitch and then go and buy it anyway.

I agree in principle though that some games just work better on the pad. Back in the day peripherals were not seen as some horrible thing in the PC community. I happily played NHL/Madden on a pad on the PC in the 90s. I used a wheel for racing games. I used a joystick for space shooters. There's nothing wrong with using peripherals on a PC. But forcing people to buy them to play a game when there is another control option (albeit inferior) is pretty weak.
 
I don't see myself investing in a game that doesn't support my input device(s) of choice.

There will probably plenty of people who will still buy it regardless, but I decide what I do with my money and at the end of the day not paying Ubi is all I can do.
 
drako said:
M/KB worked quite nicely for Arkham Asylum IMO. I think the point is that having less options is very rarely a good thing and Ubi needs to demonstrate that this decision was made to make the pad controls even better rather than just a lazy attitude towards their PC fans. Theoretically anyway. They don't need to do anything because people will bitch and then go and buy it anyway.

I agree in principle though that some games just work better on the pad. Back in the day peripherals were not seen as some horrible thing in the PC community. I happily played NHL/Madden on a pad on the PC in the 90s. I used a wheel for racing games. I used a joystick for space shooters. There's nothing wrong with using peripherals on a PC. But forcing people to buy them to play a game when there is another control option (albeit inferior) is pretty weak.
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I agree that more options are better, but lack of an option I'm never going to use isn't going to stop me from buying a product. If you want to use the keyboard and can't because Ubi are dicks, go ahead and protest by not buying it, but don't expect me to now buy it as well :p

What's gonna stop me from buying it is if it's a shit game or overlaiden with unnecessary DRM or lacks a feature I actually care about. If its a good game, doesn't have shitty DRM and all the other pieces are in place, lacking decent keyboard support won't stop me buying a game I would have played with a controller anyway. Lack of wireless 360 controller support is more likely to drive me away than this.
 
Tudz said:
If you want to use the keyboard and can't because Ubi are dicks, go ahead and protest by not buying it, but don't expect me to now buy it as well :p
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Oh I agree. If a game checks all of the right boxes for you, there is no reason not to buy it. There isn't nor should there be any expectation of solidarity in game purchasing.
 
All I have to ask is, did you really have to abbreviate it as "ass creed?" rofl
 
Anyone who has played AC1 - Current AC game knows how shitty this game is with a mouse/keyboard. Friend of mine wouldn't even play it till he got a 360 pad for PC.
 
Ubisoft thinks that they are growing complacent with their PC games. They need something new to stir more controversy.

LeninGHOLA said:
Hopefully they will spend a good couple million making their DRM scheme more retarded so they don't have funds to properly port it over. I prefer my games half assed and very restrictive.
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and to put a cherry on top it would be nice to have a facebook game to unlock special content.
 
Dion said:
Anyone who has played AC1 - Current AC game knows how shitty this game is with a mouse/keyboard. Friend of mine wouldn't even play it till he got a 360 pad for PC.
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I must have missed the memo, because I played AC1, AC2 and ACB using keyboard and mouse and found the experience to be perfectly adequate and far better than having to deal with the loose and imprecise controls of a gamepad.
 
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