Thinking About Windows 10 Alternatives

[heatlesssun]

According to this logic, it is obvious people don't see any value to Game of Thrones, since it is the most illegally download show.

Most bizarre thinking. People steal things that are of worth that they don't want to pay for.

 

[BulletDust]

First of all, how did this guy connect pirated Windows 10 copies with gamers? And if one is pirating Windows for games there's a good chance they're probably pirating the games as well. So I guess these people don't see any value in anything.

That's a valid point. However, personally, gamers or not, if it's the most downloaded torrent available today it's obvious people don't see value in Windows and do have an issue with paying full retail for it.

According to this logic, it is obvious people don't see any value to Game of Thrones, since it is the most illegally download show.

Well, as someone that lives in Australia, a company called Foxtel has exclusive rights to Game Of Thrones, the only way I can watch it is to spend ~$90.00/month on pay TV - I cannot see value in that so I explore other avenues to watch the show. If the show was available easily for a much fairer price I'd have no problem paying for it.

Seeing value in a purchase is very important to the consumer. You're comparison is flawed.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well, as someone that lives in Australia, a company called Foxtel has exclusive rights to Game Of Thrones, the only way I can watch it is to spend ~$90.00/month on pay TV - I cannot see value in that so I explore other avenues to watch the show. If the show was available easily for a much fairer price I'd have no problem paying for it.

Seeing value in a purchase is very important to the consumer. You're comparison is flawed.

By your logic people steal money because they see no value in money. People steal because free is a really good deal on things that DO have value.

 

[BulletDust]

By your logic people steal money because they see no value in money. People steal because free is a really good deal on things that DO have value.

That's a ridiculous comparison.

People steal money because as our forum of currency they need it to survive, people don't need Windows or Game Of Thrones to survive.

 

[BulletDust]

If you believe value for money doesn't exist to the consumer that you've failed very, very basic marketing completely.

 

[heatlesssun]

It simply doesn't make sense that people steel things because they see no value in those things. That's exactly the opposite point of stealing.

 

[BulletDust]

It simply doesn't make sense that people steel things because they see no value in those things. That's exactly the opposite point of stealing.

Ah, yeah. Whatever, I'm not going to try and teach you marketing 101.

Your ability to totally disregard completely valid, factual points of argument is astonishing.

 

[Snowdog]

I have seen a few different numbers reported for desktop sales... it comes down to which lines of 2in1s ect you count in your numbers. Regardless things are declining and they aren't likely to stop. Most of the speculation that things will improve are based on wrong headed arguments that people are just not upgrading as fast ect. Which may well be correct but I suspect are BS.

Sure. Everyone else is wrong and you are right. PC market doomed and declining rapidly.

Oh Wait:
http://www.pcgamer.com/pc-gaming-hardware-market-breaches-30-billion-for-the-first-time/

Biggest PC Gaming HW sales EVER in 2016.

 

[heatlesssun]

Ah, yeah. Whatever, I'm not going to try and teach you marketing 101.

You're ability to totally disregard completely valid, factual points of argument is astonishing.

Marketing 101 says people steal things of VALUE. Why the hell would anyone bother with a big Windows download if it didn't have some value to them? What you're saying is that a lot of people don't want to pay for Windows, well duh. The people that would pirate Windows are also likely to pirate the games they run on Windows. So all this stuff you say has no value because people steal it, they sure seem to spend a lot of effort to obtain this stuff and then spend hours and hours playing the games that had no value to them.

 

[BulletDust]

Marketing 101 says people steal things of VALUE. Why the hell would anyone bother with a big Windows download if it didn't have some value to them? What you're saying is that a lot of people don't want to pay for Windows, well duh. The people that would pirate Windows are also likely to pirate the games they run on Windows. So all this stuff you say has no value because people steal it, they sure seem to spend a lot of effort to obtain this stuff and then spend hours and hours playing the games that had no value to them.

Yeah, righto.

 

[Snowdog]

Linux Advocates reach an absurd new low, pretending people pirate stuff they really don't care about.

Which explains why most acclaimed/popular Movies/Premium TV shows are most pirated every year.

Oh,wait...

 

[ChadD]

I don't know about the desktop PC dying, you can't do real work on an Ipad. On Android it's possible if you connect an off the shelf keyboard and mouse, but a desktop is the ideal solution. The way I see it, people aren't upgrading as fast as technology isn't really improving the way it did in the past, any performance gains we're seeing from CPU's are based around improvements to the memory controller as opposed to any improvements to the CPU core itself. One of my PC's here runs a 2700k @ 5Ghz with 16GB of ram and a GTX 1080 and it doesn't struggle with anything and upgrading the base system will offer little to no performance gain. We're simply reaching the limits of silicon based technologies.

You may well have a point... and I think if it is true then for sure it spells the end of the desktop at some point. The question then becomes when can they make mobile versions of the stuff in your desktop.

I think the real question is though when can they make mobile versions that are 80% as good as everything in YOUR desktop. Cause the average joe can't really tell the difference between a I3 and a I7... or a 750TI and a 1080.

I mean I hope I'm wrong. I know we can run linux on just about everything... but I do like my hardware as well. I would hate to see it get even harder to source good parts and the like to build systems. A lot of the high end hardware out there in in terms of MBs RAM ect... heatle isn't completely wrong Gaming does drive those companies to supply the "gamer" edition stuff.

 

[heatlesssun]

I think the real question is though when can they make mobile versions that are 80% as good as everything in YOUR desktop. Cause the average joe can't really tell the difference between a I3 and a I7... or a 750TI and a 1080.

You do have a point here and this time may come but PCs are to improve as well so there's always going to be gap. As for the comparison between a 750Ti and 1080. I upgraded from 680s to 1080s. Night and day, the biggest jump in performance from old to new I'd ever experienced in over 20 years of buying graphics cards.

 

[ChadD]

You do have a point here and this time may come but PCs are to improve as well so there's always going to be gap. As for the comparison between a 750Ti and 1080. I upgraded from 680s to 1080s. Night and day, the biggest jump in performance from old to new I'd ever experienced in over 20 years of buying graphics cards.

Its hard to say... go AMD and Zen right. We need competition to continue driving the desktop. If it doesn't then the mobile stuff WILL catch up sooner rather then later. As it is a lot of folks think 3d gaming on the higher end pads and phones is good. I like games as well as much as I say I don't care about AAA that doesn't mean I hate a game that happens to have great eye candy... it has more to do with what has been going on with the industry and consoles vs pcs and mobile development the last few years.

I am really really hoping AMD gives Intel a reason to keep pushing... and later in the year Nvidia. We need the desktop to keep extending the performance bar down the field no doubt.

 

[SmokeRngs]

I didn't say "Windows does everything best." I said it has by far the best hardware and software support for client desktops/x86 devices. One can by Windows 10 devices that are anywhere from a $50 8" tablets to very expensive gaming workstations and all sorts of devices between will support for all sorts of software.



I never said Linux gaming wasn't getting new titles but in comparison to Windows, since this is a thread about Windows 10 alternatives thus the comparison has to be made, Windows title growth is much higher than Linux.



This is the same stuff that pro-desktop Linux folks have been going on and on about for 20 years when most people just want to use the hardware and software they want to use. Some of you guys talk incessantly about "love for Windows". And then you bash everything that a person uses that isn't supported under Linux. Nice.

I see you've avoided how Windows is only around due to the early entrenchment of the OS. There was no competition when MS started. It was the only game in town on the platform and stayed that way for a long time. By the time there were alternatives, MS was already entrenched. That's what kept MS in the position it currently is, not because it's a superior product.

I would like to point out a couple things to you that others have brought up. Windows RT. How well did that go over for MS? I'm pretty sure MS's entry into an relatively established area was a dismal failure. How about MS with phones? Multiple forays into that segment with dismal failure each time. You can look at the Xbox. While not a dismal failure, it sure as hell hasn't been a resounding success. I haven't paid attention in quite a while to the financials but has the Xbox segment produced much, if any profit for the company yet? I know for a really long time it was basically a black hole for money. The first iteration was a massive money pit and I don't think the second iteration was all that much better. As for everything to current I don't know but I have a feeling MS's foray into another established market hasn't exactly been good.

What myself and others have been seeing is that MS is essentially coasting along on entrenchment. Forays into areas already at least partially established by others have not gone well. It's even worse if you think about it. MS has been an absolute failure in the mobile markets and then turns around and puts what is essentially a mobile GUI on a desktop product which is Windows 8. After the backlash to that and a not very good acceptance of the idea MS goes ahead and makes it even worse with Windows 10. Trying to force a mobile look and feel onto a desktop product after having failed miserably in the mobile area sounds like a great losing proposition. The only reason MS hasn't been kicked out yet is entrenchment, coasting along on what MS already has. A lot more people than usual are unhappy about Windows 8 and again Windows 10, the main place MS still has the greatest strength. It's the one place MS can't afford to screw up much less screw up repeatedly and that's not what's happening. Screwing up repeatedly with your core business will drive people away and if enough are driven away the rest starts failing as well. That's the point you simply do not see or wish to acknowledge. MS simply has not had a "win" in a long time and if it keeps up this way, even the entrenchment MS has will fall. You decry the amount of games on Steam for Linux compared to the number for Windows and yet you refuse to see that this is just starting as a nibble. There has already been a rather large move away from desktop use in many cases with phones and tablets, a space where MS has no effective presence. That's already a lot more than a nibble. Nibble away enough and for long enough and there won't be much left.

 

[heatlesssun]

I see you've avoided how Windows is only around due to the early entrenchment of the OS. There was no competition when MS started. It was the only game in town on the platform and stayed that way for a long time. By the time there were alternatives, MS was already entrenched. That's what kept MS in the position it currently is, not because it's a superior product.

Windows was on the market for 4 years before it really gained traction with Windows 3.0 in 1990. And I've never said that Windows was superior to anything. And sure, going on three decades of dominance in the desktop market, helps Windows. Just like three decades of dominance would help Linux if it were in a similar position.

I would like to point out a couple things to you that others have brought up. Windows RT. How well did that go over for MS? I'm pretty sure MS's entry into an relatively established area was a dismal failure. How about MS with phones? Multiple forays into that segment with dismal failure each time.

Which goes to issue of entrenchment that you mention. Whatever mistakes Microsoft has made and sure it's made plenty, mobile is pretty well entrenched. iOS and Android. Hell, remember Blackberry? Those were pretty entrenched, until there weren't.

You can look at the Xbox. While not a dismal failure, it sure as hell hasn't been a resounding success.

In the console space the Xbox has done pretty well. The PS4 is winning this generation, then there's next gen.

What myself and others have been seeing is that MS is essentially coasting along on entrenchment.

Their cloud business would say otherwise.

After the backlash to that and a not very good acceptance of the idea MS goes ahead and makes it even worse with Windows 10. Trying to force a mobile look and feel onto a desktop product after having failed miserably in the mobile area sounds like a great losing proposition.

Well you have Chad here talking about how the desktop is going to die. So if he's right, it does make sense to add mobile elements to it. In any case we use a lot more mobile devices even in terms of PCs than when Windows 1.0 came out over 30 years ago. And when it comes to entrenched products like Windows, those are the ones that are VERY difficult to change with trends because everyone kind of likes the way it was 20 years ago. So it's interesting that you say Microsoft is entrenched yet "just give me Windows XP" is kind of a big sentiment among Windows folks.

The only reason MS hasn't been kicked out yet is entrenchment, coasting along on what MS already has. A lot more people than usual are unhappy about Windows 8 and again Windows 10, the main place MS still has the greatest strength. It's the one place MS can't afford to screw up much less screw up repeatedly and that's not what's happening. Screwing up repeatedly with your core business will drive people away and if enough are driven away the rest starts failing as well. That's the point you simply do not see or wish to acknowledge. MS simply has not had a "win" in a long time and if it keeps up this way, even the entrenchment MS has will fall. You decry the amount of games on Steam for Linux compared to the number for Windows and yet you refuse to see that this is just starting as a nibble. There has already been a rather large move away from desktop use in many cases with phones and tablets, a space where MS has no effective presence. That's already a lot more than a nibble. Nibble away enough and for long enough and there won't be much left.

As much as Microsoft is screwing up, it's not like desktop Linux has really taken advantage of it. We have people here arguing how support of 1/3rd of their Steam is super awesome. If a version of Windows was only compatible with 1/3rd of existing Windows software, talk about a major screw up.

 

[ChadD]

Windows was on the market for 4 years before it really gained traction with Windows 3.0 in 1990. And I've never said that Windows was superior to anything. And sure, going on three decades of dominance in the desktop market, helps Windows. Just like three decades of dominance would help Linux if it were in a similar position.

Windows 3.0 was released in May 1990... I think you may be remembering wrong. It was nothing more then a shell program that ran under the real OS which was still MSDOS. (you know the one Short sighted IBM installed on every computer they shipped) MS was entrenched because IBM made them the standard when there wasn't one. Good on Gates he saw an opportunity and snatched it.

Which goes to issue of entrenchment that you mention. Whatever mistakes Microsoft has made and sure it's made plenty, mobile is pretty well entrenched. iOS and Android. Hell, remember Blackberry? Those were pretty entrenched, until there weren't.

Exactly remember blackberry... they had a lead because they had features no one else had. Then they sat on their behind while everyone else caught up... and it was trouble.

In the console space the Xbox has done pretty well. The PS4 is winning this generation, then there's next gen.

I'm sure MS wishes they had done pretty well.
The truth is sadly for their investors MS has never turned a profit with any xbox ever. They have resorted to hiding the losses in larger reporting units to keep investors from demanding the Xbox end.

Their cloud business would say otherwise.

I would love to say something snarky... but ya MS has been making some headway into the market as I understand it. I am sure it is one of their more profitable units even if they do have lots of competition its a large market.

Well you have Chad here talking about how the desktop is going to die. So if he's right, it does make sense to add mobile elements to it. In any case we use a lot more mobile devices even in terms of PCs than when Windows 1.0 came out over 30 years ago. And when it comes to entrenched products like Windows, those are the ones that are VERY difficult to change with trends because everyone kind of likes the way it was 20 years ago. So it's interesting that you say Microsoft is entrenched yet "just give me Windows XP" is kind of a big sentiment among Windows folks.

He isn't wrong and neither are you. At the end of the day MS took a risk... it was a big one. Really I don't think they had much choice. They NEED to get into the mobile sector, as I have said. I think many have predicted some version of what I have been suggesting, surely that was the thinking behind Win8. We are going hit a tipping point where the average consumer isn't going to care about desktops... and they are going to become a sort of niche market with the majority of software development and everyday use aimed at mobile or some form of mobile hybrid device. So I think MS had to take the gamble with Win 8... it really was the time to do it. What they lacked in a big way was the mobile hardware, or the mobile hardware salesman ship to really push into that market. Had windows phone caught on and been a strong 3rd or better sat in a 2nd place spot in terms of market share. Windows 8 would have been viewed as something very different.

The issue is it failed. I do give them full marks for trying though. IMO Win 8 wasn't a failure because they changed the UI... it was a failure because they didn't back the change up with an iPhone killer... worse they couldn't even bake up a Galaxy killer. MS needed to take the money they have been burning on the Xbox and design 3-4 absolute kick ass sexy ass phones sell them at a loss and market the hell out of them. Of course they didn't. I think MS figured like the desktop market they could get away with really only worrying about the software... that third parties would step up and design fantastic hardware for them. Anyway that whole mess is an entirely different thread... so many issues with Nokia and execution ect ect. They tried though give them that.

As much as Microsoft is screwing up, it's not like desktop Linux has really taken advantage of it. We have people here arguing how support of 1/3rd of their Steam is super awesome. If a version of Windows was only compatible with 1/3rd of existing Windows software, talk about a major screw up.

Well it isn't the same system. Looking to run another OS and expecting a ton of compatability is silly. I mean people don't buy macs expecting to run a ton of Windows software. 1/3 of steam is mac friendly as well and yet some how people are still buying them. That is because your thinking about Linux wrong. Linux has pounced... there is no Linux board that is rubbing their hands together waiting to one up MS. Its open source and the market pushes it where ever some company decides to take it. The thing with Linux is someone said years back "this is the year of Linux on the desktop" and that has been a thing to rally for or laugh at.

That isn't really the way to look at it. Linux is a kernel that is open and can power anything. Which means any company can make anything and power it with Linux... and they are doing that. So the question has Linux taken advantage of Microsofts short falls ? Ummm yes they have if you haven't noticed right now the Linux kernel owns the mobile sector. I am not sure how MS comes back from where they have gotten themselves in the consumer arena. Linux has already won. The desktop isn't the question. The question should be "When is the year of Linux consumer computing". Well we already had that year it was 2015. (1.3 billion Android devices shipped 297 million Apple devices shipped and Microsoft shipped 283 million windows units).

 

[Snowdog]

I see you've avoided how Windows is only around due to the early entrenchment of the OS. There was no competition when MS started. It was the only game in town on the platform and stayed that way for a long time. By the time there were alternatives, MS was already entrenched. That's what kept MS in the position it currently is, not because it's a superior product.

I would like to point out a couple things to you that others have brought up. Windows RT. How well did that go over for MS? I'm pretty sure MS's entry into an relatively established area was a dismal failure. How about MS with phones? Multiple forays into that segment with dismal failure each time. You can look at the Xbox. While not a dismal failure, it sure as hell hasn't been a resounding success. I haven't paid attention in quite a while to the financials but has the Xbox segment produced much, if any profit for the company yet? I know for a really long time it was basically a black hole for money. The first iteration was a massive money pit and I don't think the second iteration was all that much better. As for everything to current I don't know but I have a feeling MS's foray into another established market hasn't exactly been good.t.

So? That doesn't prove Windows is bad. It just proves what I have been saying. That the ecosystem is what really matters.

No one can break into an established market with dominant ecosystems, without a revolution advantage. Not Microsoft and Not Linux (and Not OS/2, not NextStep x86, Not BeOS).

The GUI and minutia of an OS doesn't matter. The OS is a launcher.

This is not changing, not for Windows Phones, nor for Linux on the desktop. They are both essentially irrelevant in the market place for the exact same reasons. They aren't part of the dominant ecosystem, and not even part of the distant 2nd place ecosystem.

 

[tetris42]

Completely true.

This thread is about current alternatives to Windows.... Linux is one and a good one.

If we are arguing about the future as we seem to be. Yes the desktop is doomed I don't even think that is debatable anymore. The only question is when. Is it soon as I argue... or is it 20 years out.

I think you need to define what you mean by doomed. A lot of people were saying the exact same thing you were back when tablets were selling left and right, and lo and behold: yes, tablets displaced some needs for the PC, but didn't even touch other uses of it. It's not just about processing power, it's also about form factor. Simply having a keyboard can make you MUCH more productive for many tasks than a touch screen can. I honestly don't see people editing movies or doing lots of accounting work on a smartphone anytime soon, regardless of how much power it has. I guess it's conceivable you'll just have docking stations, but I think it's very unlikely the desktop will simply die, even in 20 years. There are just too many things it does that aren't done elsewhere. Now a retraction, sure, that's likely, but I think it will stabilize at some point also.

Sure. Everyone else is wrong and you are right. PC market doomed and declining rapidly.

Oh Wait:
http://www.pcgamer.com/pc-gaming-hardware-market-breaches-30-billion-for-the-first-time/

Biggest PC Gaming HW sales EVER in 2016.

To clear up any confusion, PC gaming is just one part of the overall market. For the past several years, the PC market has been declining AT THE SAME TIME the PC gaming market has been increasing. So more people are gaming on PC than ever, but less of the general populace is finding they need a dedicated PC.

 

[BulletDust]

As much as Microsoft is screwing up, it's not like desktop Linux has really taken advantage of it. We have people here arguing how support of 1/3rd of their Steam is super awesome. If a version of Windows was only compatible with 1/3rd of existing Windows software, talk about a major screw up.

Lol!

If only your little point actually held some merit as a valid nugget of argument!

 

[BulletDust]

You do have a point here and this time may come but PCs are to improve as well so there's always going to be gap. As for the comparison between a 750Ti and 1080. I upgraded from 680s to 1080s. Night and day, the biggest jump in performance from old to new I'd ever experienced in over 20 years of buying graphics cards.

However I can assure you the jump from 980Ti @ 1500 to a 1080 was in no way any real mindblowing improvement.

Upgrading from one generation to the next is a complete waste of time, upgrading from four generations to the latest is of borderline improvement depending on overclockability in relation to CPU's.

There's no real compelling point to upgrading every twelve months anymore and it's obvious that the PC is advancing slower as a result.

 

[heatlesssun]

To clear up any confusion, PC gaming is just one part of the overall market. For the past several years, the PC market has been declining AT THE SAME TIME the PC gaming market has been increasing. So more people are gaming on PC than ever, but less of the general populace is finding they need a dedicated PC.

Which is a point I've been making for so time. Smartphones are the new PCs. PCs will take on responsibilities not easily done in mobile, like high end gaming and productivity. Phone may one day be a big deal in this space but they have a log way to go.

 

[Snowdog]

To clear up any confusion, PC gaming is just one part of the overall market. For the past several years, the PC market has been declining AT THE SAME TIME the PC gaming market has been increasing. So more people are gaming on PC than ever, but less of the general populace is finding they need a dedicated PC.

I don't see any evidence that people are trashing their Desktop/Laptop and only using phones, and I don't know any person in real life who did this. I would say it is more a case of running old PC's longer, which still drags down the sales.

It looks more likely that only serious gamers need regular upgrades for PCs, so that market is growing.

But regular users find old PC's good enough for more years. My PC is 8 years old and it is used heavily, daily. My Android tablet is 3 years old, and only gets occasional use as an E-Reader.

Judged only by buying habits, it looks like I gave up on PCs and went to an Android Tablet. But that would be completely Wrong. If my PC broke down, I would have to get it fixed right away. If my Android Tablet broke I would toss it in the trash and forget about it. I would never buy another.

 

[heatlesssun]

However I can assure you the jump from 980Ti @ 1500 to a 1080 was in no way any real mindblowing improvement.

Upgrading from one generation to the next is a complete waste of time, upgrading from four generations to the latest is of borderline improvement depending on overclockability in relation to CPU's.

There's no real compelling point to upgrading every twelve months anymore and it's obvious that the PC is advancing slower as a result.

Ok, not really sure what that has to do with the original comment. The performance gap between a 750i and 1080 is mind-blowing and obvious. There's no need for most to upgrade to a new phone every 12 months these days either. The laws of silicon are effecting all computing devices now.

 

[BulletDust]

Which is a point I've been making for so time. Smartphones are the new PCs. PCs will take on responsibilities not easily done in mobile, like high end gaming and productivity. Phone may one day be a big deal in this space but they have a log way to go.

Or people are finding that an x58 system with a decent, modern GPU games just as well as the latest Intel system for the average gamer. The need to upgrade isn't there anymore so people stick with their 6yo system as it's still perfectly capable of doing what they want it to do. The idea that people are using tablets and virtual keyboards to type up letters and do the bulk of their daily work doesn't really make sense as it's just not in any way practical.

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't see any evidence that people are trashing their Desktop/Laptop and only using phones, and I don't know any person in real life who did this. I would say it is more a case of running old PC's longer, which still drags down the sales.

People that are doing this never needed a PC for anything more than what a phone can do in this first place.

 

[BulletDust]

In fact tablet sales are slumping also, so the argument that people are ditching PC's for tablets doesn't really hold water.

https://www.statista.com/chart/5410/worldwide-tablet-shipments/

 

[heatlesssun]

Or people are finding that an x58 system with a decent, modern GPU games just as well as the latest Intel system for the average gamer. The need to upgrade isn't there anymore so people stick with their 6yo system as it's still perfectly capable of doing what they want it to do. The idea that people are using tablets and virtual keyboards to type up letters and do the bulk of their daily work doesn't really make sense as it's just not in any way practical.

I upgraded to this system from an i7-980x and I would agree with you overall. The thing that does make a pretty big difference that wasn't available on x58, is NVMe storage. This new rig is noticeably faster, it doesn't really ever bog down currently where the old one would now then.

 

[BulletDust]

I upgraded to this system from an i7-980x and I would agree with you overall. The thing that does make a pretty big difference that wasn't available on x58, is NVMe storage. This new rig is noticeably faster, it doesn't really ever bog down currently where the old one would now then.

You just set up a number of inexpensive SSD's in raid 0, even one decent SSD is plenty fast enough.

 

[BulletDust]

I so regretted selling my x58 based system that I ended up buying another one running dual Xeons, although one of them is removed ATM and in the server.

 

[Snowdog]

People that are doing this never needed a PC for anything more than what a phone can do in this first place.

I understand the theory. But do you know anyone who got rid of a PC is now Phone only?

 

[heatlesssun]

I understand the theory. But do you know anyone who got rid of a PC is now Phone only?

I agree, I personally don't know anyone that's done that. Though I do know some folks that have phones and no PC these days. But they aren't crunching spreadsheets on their phones.

 

[heatlesssun]

You just set up a number of inexpensive SSD's in raid 0, even one decent SSD is plenty fast enough.

When I was looking into this last summer, I didn't see too many people recommending SATA III raid 0 over NVMe, here's an example: https://hardforum.com/threads/sata-iii-ssd-in-raid-0-vs-nvme.1857300/

 

[BulletDust]

I agree, I personally don't know anyone that's done that. Though I do know some folks that have phones and no PC these days. But they aren't crunching spreadsheets on their phones.

I hate crunching spreadsheets and doing the bookwork full stop, bugger doing it on a phone or even a tablet.

Although I do find I can use my Nexus 9 for a great many PC based tasks. Quite often, for example, I'll download a .D64 file on the Nexus 9, unzip it and transfer the file to a CF card of USB stick for use in my C64. It's quite handy for when you're at a user group meeting and highlights the advantages of a propper file manager under Android as opposed to no file manager at all under iOS.

 

[heatlesssun]

I so regretted selling my x58 based system that I ended up buying another one running dual Xeons, although one of them is removed ATM and in the server.

One thing about it for me, heat. This 14nm x6950x overclocked to 4.3 generates a good deal less heat than that 980x. I've got the 980x in a closet right now, not really sure what do with that thing.

 

[BulletDust]

And Half Life 2 plays awesome on my N9.

 

[BulletDust]

One thing about it for me, heat. This 14nm x6950x overclocked to 4.3 generates a good deal less heat than that 980x. I've got the 980x in a closet right now, not really sure what do with that thing.

I don't run my x58 system overclocked anymore, it's my daily driver and low noise levels as well as power consumption are prerequisites these days - It has more than enough power for what I need it to do, in fact it's stupidly fast.

The 2700k @ 5Ghz is the gamer, that will quite easily trip a 900 watt UPS and heats the room up so much it's one of the reasons I hardly ever use it anymore.

 

[ChadD]

I think you need to define what you mean by doomed. A lot of people were saying the exact same thing you were back when tablets were selling left and right, and lo and behold: yes, tablets displaced some needs for the PC, but didn't even touch other uses of it. It's not just about processing power, it's also about form factor. Simply having a keyboard can make you MUCH more productive for many tasks than a touch screen can. I honestly don't see people editing movies or doing lots of accounting work on a smartphone anytime soon, regardless of how much power it has. I guess it's conceivable you'll just have docking stations, but I think it's very unlikely the desktop will simply die, even in 20 years. There are just too many things it does that aren't done elsewhere. Now a retraction, sure, that's likely, but I think it will stabilize at some point also.

I don't disagree that keyboard is nice to have.

Tablets never really solved that issue. What I suspect will happen is that phones will. I mean nothing stopping people from using bluetooth keyboards and chrome cast now. At some point I believe it will get packaged all nice. Apple sort of tried with the whole ipad pro stuff. I think the same idea for a phone is what is going to sell. I believe it will take the convenience of simply being able to sit at your TV or at a desk with a monitor and have things just connect. It sounds like an apple idea but I suspect it will be google that goes after something like that. Perhaps... also possible I'm crazy and no one would want that.

 

[ChadD]

I hate crunching spreadsheets and doing the bookwork full stop, bugger doing it on a phone or even a tablet.

Although I do find I can use my Nexus 9 for a great many PC based tasks. Quite often, for example, I'll download a .D64 file on the Nexus 9, unzip it and transfer the file to a CF card of USB stick for use in my C64. It's quite handy for when you're at a user group meeting and highlights the advantages of a propper file manager under Android as opposed to no file manager at all under iOS.

I don't expect phones or tablets are going to replace that work on their own screens though.

There is nothing at all stopping someone from casting their phone screen right now. All it is going to take for the switch to happen will be one vender like say Samsung (who also sells computer monitors) to add wireless casting to a line of monitors and open source the standard. They build the tech into their phones from their out. At that point they sell the full sized bluetooth keyboard... and have the phone switch to a "desktop" mode when its in cast mode.

They market that product right... and if they convince other monitor and television manufacturers to include the tech. I wouldn't think it would take more then a generation or two of phones shipping with that for the majority of joe averages to be sold. As long as the mobile hardware is fast enough to make things smooth for things like Google Docs ect.

I don't think this is something they will push this generation of phone hardware... but in the next few cycles everything will be in place hardware wise. Even if it involves a cheap chromecast type adapter instead of being build in... it still might sell.

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't expect phones or tablets are going to replace that work on their own screens though.

There is nothing at all stopping someone from casting their phone screen right now. All it is going to take for the switch to happen will be one vender like say Samsung (who also sells computer monitors) to add wireless casting to a line of monitors and open source the standard. They build the tech into their phones from their out. At that point they sell the full sized bluetooth keyboard... and have the phone switch to a "desktop" mode when its in cast mode.

They market that product right... and if they convince other monitor and television manufacturers to include the tech. I wouldn't think it would take more then a generation or two of phones shipping with that for the majority of joe averages to be sold. As long as the mobile hardware is fast enough to make things smooth for things like Google Docs ect.

I don't think this is something they will push this generation of phone hardware... but in the next few cycles everything will be in place hardware wise. Even if it involves a cheap chromecast type adapter instead of being build in... it still might sell.

Hell, I can do this on my lowly and failed Lumia 950 Windows Phone with Miracast. The experience is NOTHING like a real PC, and this is with the mobile Office apps which actually run WAY better on a Windows 10 PC than any mobile device. I'm not so much disagreeing with you as I'm simply not sure what it would take to make something like this work to the extent that people who do these kinds of things would be happy with the experience. Multitasking, cutting and pasting and moving between apps quickly and seamlessly, things that mobile doesn't do well compared to desktops now, that's all got to be solved.

Basically phones today are app islands that are designed for small screens. Larger screen experiences, file systems, multitasking, keyboards and mice, just not sure how adding all of that in into devices that were never designed to be desktops are going to replace desktops.